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Author Topic: Why award shows don't matter  (Read 2434 times)

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Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Why award shows don't matter
« on: January 22, 2009, 05:16:20 PM »
Yeah. I know, I know, why did he put this in Politics and Religion, but if you think about it, it's all about Politics and Religion. The politics of who sucked, blew, or paid off who in Hollywood, or the narcissit religion of the The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences worshipping itself.

Everyone that went to see it knows The Dark Knight kicked some major theatrical ass. While there were some raised eyebrows on Christian Bale (namely, what the hell was up with the grunting delivery of his lines?), on the other hand the posthumous attention to Heath Ledger cannot be overstressed. Best Joker ever on the big screen and a super villian for the ages.

This is exactly why I ignore these things any more. It's all just a favoritism club, while true works of cinematic art get pushed to the wayside. The sooner that the general public realizes these little cliques don't really matter to anyone but themselves, the better.


http://oscars.movies.yahoo.com/photos/53-dont-you-forget-about-me-this-years-oscar-snubs/1?nc

« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 05:25:05 PM by The Overlord »

Offline Cecily

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 08:32:34 PM »
Yeah. I know, I know, why did he put this in Politics and Religion, but if you think about it, it's all about Politics and Religion. The politics of who sucked, blew, or paid off who in Hollywood, or the narcissit religion of the The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences worshipping itself.

Everyone that went to see it knows The Dark Knight kicked some major theatrical ass. While there were some raised eyebrows on Christian Bale (namely, what the hell was up with the grunting delivery of his lines?), on the other hand the posthumous attention to Heath Ledger cannot be overstressed. Best Joker ever on the big screen and a super villian for the ages.

This is exactly why I ignore these things any more. It's all just a favoritism club, while true works of cinematic art get pushed to the wayside. The sooner that the general public realizes these little cliques don't really matter to anyone but themselves, the better.


http://oscars.movies.yahoo.com/photos/53-dont-you-forget-about-me-this-years-oscar-snubs/1?nc



I think the academy made good choices this year when it came to the nominees. No offense to people who liked the Dark Knight, but I found it to be a very boring, stupid movie. It reminded me very much of 300. I think Heath Ledger's performance was fine; it wasn't sensational, and I think people are overdoing how good he was just because he died. He still got an oscar nomination for it, if I remember correctly, so I don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal about it. He even won the golden globe for his performance. Actually, the movie got eight oscar nominations, so I think that acting like the academy gave it no attention at all is a little ridiculous and overdramatic.

Just because you think that a movie is good and deserves a reward doesn't mean it does. Some of my favourite movies are ones that were never nominated for a reward, but I don't really care if they don't get a reward or not, it's not like it really matters. Just because the Dark Knight made a lot of money doesn't mean it's a good movie, either - there are tons of shit movies that make a lot of money. Norbit and 300? Both pretty good examples, in my opinion. I think The Dark Knight was better than those two, and better than most superhero movies (Spiderman 3 was so bad. >_>), but I don't see it as an amazing film. Movies like Doubt, Milk, Frost/Nixon and Slumdog Millionaire are all good movies, so it's not like there was no competition.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 10:14:59 PM »


Just because you think that a movie is good and deserves a reward doesn't mean it does.

True, but likewise just because the guild doesn't think it deserves one doesn't mean it doesn't. Regardless, it's a very difficult thing to say that there's no bias in the industry, when it's clear as blue sky. I generally ignore the so-called experts when they aren't behaving as experts.


Some people are always going to say any attention to Ledger is purely posthumous and that BS. I remember him before he made it to the big screen and I'd say I was a mild to moderate fan, but with Dark Knight he showed us what he can do.


BTW I liked 300 too, but IMHO there’s little comparison. The suspension of disbelief and over the top sensationalism was so intense it was really was a separate element from the film, and it kept it enjoyable versus if they handed us all that and expected us to believe it on some level.  ;)

Offline Cecily

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 11:43:59 PM »
True, but likewise just because the guild doesn't think it deserves one doesn't mean it doesn't. Regardless, it's a very difficult thing to say that there's no bias in the industry, when it's clear as blue sky. I generally ignore the so-called experts when they aren't behaving as experts.


Some people are always going to say any attention to Ledger is purely posthumous and that BS. I remember him before he made it to the big screen and I'd say I was a mild to moderate fan, but with Dark Knight he showed us what he can do.


BTW I liked 300 too, but IMHO there’s little comparison. The suspension of disbelief and over the top sensationalism was so intense it was really was a separate element from the film, and it kept it enjoyable versus if they handed us all that and expected us to believe it on some level.  ;)


Of course there has to be some bias there - to say that there isn't would be ridiculous, but I don't think there's that much bias. It's hard for me to criticize the guild when that's their job, and regardless of what you think they are professionals. I think some of the movies that have been nominated in the past few years have been absolute shit (I can't remember many, but The Departed comes to mind), but at least this year I feel like nearly every movie nominated is good. Perhaps if The Dark Knight came out a few years ago when there wasn't as much competition I would've been a little more sympathetic to it not getting many of the 'bigger' nominations, but they still got eight this year, which isn't anything to scoff or to complain at.

I don't think that all the attention that the movie and Ledger got was because of his death, but it's quite naive to think that it wasn't a factor. For days on end all it was was about Heath Ledger and his new 'amazing part' in a film, before anyone even saw it. I am not a huge film-buff, but I had not known who he was before he died, and many people I know were in the same situation. For a few days I thought Heath Ledger was going to be the new Anna Nicole Smith, but thankfully he wasn't, at least. 

This may sound rude, but to me, The Dark Knight was "300 with a plot". I know superhero movies are required to have a certain amount of cheesiness in them - which is fine with me, but The Dark Knight had so many "I am nearly gagging since it's so cheesy and stupid" moments. Also, perhaps it's just because I never read the comics or anything like that, but there were many times where I thought the movie was going to end then some new villain is introduced only to be killed off twenty minutes later. The only suspension in The Dark Knight for me was "when is this movie going to be over". >_>

Offline blakout

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 01:43:15 PM »
I think that the picks are good except for The Reader that movie sucked out loud

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 03:10:35 PM »


I don't think that all the attention that the movie and Ledger got was because of his death, but it's quite naive to think that it wasn't a factor. For days on end all it was was about Heath Ledger and his new 'amazing part' in a film, before anyone even saw it. I am not a huge film-buff, but I had not known who he was before he died, and many people I know were in the same situation. For a few days I thought Heath Ledger was going to be the new Anna Nicole Smith, but thankfully he wasn't, at least. 


Oh certainly not; it's an unfortunate truth that one of the best career moves a celebrity can make is to die. Posthumous attention certainly was a factor, and yes, there may have been a lot of that prior to screening of The Dark Knight, but Ledger really did live up to expectations.

Cinema has seen a lot of great villains over the years, my issues is that there's clear genre discrimination at times. Sci-fi, fantasy, comics, etc.; that is, anything that could show up at a convention is oft derided. In the past decade some great names come to mind. Christopher Lee for his work in SW and LoTR, Ian McKellan for his work in X-Men. Brad Dourif and Andy Serkis in LoTR. Ray Park and Ian McDiarmid in SW.

There may be a few awards here that these guys got that I'm not aware of, but I don't hear them getting lauded nearly as much as they deserve.

Ray Park is a regular at Dragoncon every year...coolest, nicest fracking guy there is.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 03:12:08 PM by The Overlord »

Offline Trieste

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 01:25:14 PM »
You're missing the superhero movie aspect pointed out in your own article.

They seldom consider the comic-turned-movie pieces actual art deserving of an Oscar. Heath Ledger was pretty well adored before he died. But the Oscars a) aren't for superheroes and b) aren't for dead people. Their track record shows this.

And given that they are an esteemed awards ceremony, they get to set the rules. It's not BS - it's just how the game is played.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 02:51:26 AM »
But the Oscars a) aren't for superheroes and b) aren't for dead people. Their track record shows this.

And given that they are an esteemed awards ceremony, they get to set the rules. It's not BS - it's just how the game is played.

Apparently not everyone agrees. You have to have some respect for the ones like Sean Penn, who recognize it for the BS it is and don't play. The ones that are for real, they know it's a crock, and they don't play that crap. It might get them snubbed come Oscar time, but these guys don't give a rat's ass, and guess what they still do movies anyway. They don't play the game, understand?

Esteemed is a pretty interesting phrase; they're esteemed only because they believe themselves to be. I file that word under the same index as professional. Many times that doesn't carry weight with me either; if you have a title big whoopdeedo. You'll have to impress me as a person first and foremost, otherwise I ignore the rest.

I'm not a conformist either. So when someone tells me that Oscars aren't for superheroes or dead actors, I just say 'says who' and then I turn off the idiot box and go fire up the computer. I know intolerance and discrimination when I see it. Esteemed doesn't impress me at all.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 05:40:01 PM »
Says who?

Are you kidding?

Says the people who come up with the parameters under which they give out the gold statue. The Oscars are not a kiddie soccer tournament; everybody doesn't get an award just for playing. And, yes, if you want the approval of the Academy, then - hey, guess what - you have to play by the Academy's rules. If you don't want to play by the Academy's rules, you really don't have to, but you then cannot turn around and be upset when they choose to take their shinies and go home.

The Oscars are part of a socialite culture that is embraced by many. Certainly one doesn't have to agree with it, or even participate, but it's difficult to take anyone who claims not to care about such things seriously when they turn around and bawl about a snub.

I know intolerance and discrimination when I see it.

Not going to comment on the intolerance part, but yes, of course it's discrimination. Again, if they didn't discriminate between good actors and bad ones, good movies and bad ones, etc, then everyone who had managed to get their crap together enough to make a movie would get an award. It wouldn't be anything close to the honour that it is now if they didn't discriminate.

Esteemed doesn't impress me at all.

Then why even take note of who's up for one and who isn't?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 05:44:09 PM »
Says who?

Are you kidding?

Says the people who come up with the parameters under which they give out the gold statue. The Oscars are not a kiddie soccer tournament; everybody doesn't get an award just for playing. And, yes, if you want the approval of the Academy, then - hey, guess what - you have to play by the Academy's rules. If you don't want to play by the Academy's rules, you really don't have to, but you then cannot turn around and be upset when they choose to take their shinies and go home.

The Oscars are part of a socialite culture that is embraced by many. Certainly one doesn't have to agree with it, or even participate, but it's difficult to take anyone who claims not to care about such things seriously when they turn around and bawl about a snub.

Not going to comment on the intolerance part, but yes, of course it's discrimination. Again, if they didn't discriminate between good actors and bad ones, good movies and bad ones, etc, then everyone who had managed to get their crap together enough to make a movie would get an award. It wouldn't be anything close to the honour that it is now if they didn't discriminate.

Then why even take note of who's up for one and who isn't?
Spot on! Truly.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2009, 06:53:03 PM »
I ... I don't know how I feel about Inkidu agreeing with me! o noes!

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2009, 07:24:11 PM »
I ... I don't know how I feel about Inkidu agreeing with me! o noes!
*Is deeply and profoundly hurt* : (
*Goes to consume comfort foods*

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 09:57:22 PM »

 It wouldn't be anything close to the honour that it is now if they didn't discriminate.


In the time I've spent on these forums, that's perhaps the biggest chunk of non-logic I've seen you post.

Then why even take note of who's up for one and who isn't?

Actually I don't, but I can't help but run across it when I go to open my email. Fracking Yahoo seems to be pretty good about enraging me, being how Hanna Montana somehow makes the news list over the crisis in Gaza.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 09:58:41 PM »

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2009, 11:11:40 PM »
Ranking any one participant in any artform is very subjective and not without its debates.  The movies, being a form of art that cannot truly be quantified, are going to have this same problem.  There will always be dissension as to who should have been nominated and which party should have received the award.  Reviewing the bonus and negative of any “artistic” piece is certainly a hard thing, skewed by our actual enjoyment of that piece.  The standards set by the award show are their own and those that are awarded are judged on those standards.  Whether you agree with the standards is obviously up for debate, but to say that the whole affair is meaningless because you don’t like the selection is quite selfish. 

If you want to see actors that are snubbed, simply look at comedians.  Many of them fail to get Oscars because they are looked down upon.  Yet comedy is art and these people are often times looked over in favor of more “dramatic” scenes and films.  Movies that make us laugh or feel good are no less important or artistic, but they don’t fit the standards.  That is all and so those movies continue to not be brought up and those actors not rewarded.  Many simply take solace in the money made, the support of their fans and the awards of less well known but equally prestigious institutions that deal with their chosen profession.

There is no real evidence that I see regarding foul play at the award show.  I’m sure politics and money does take some credit for people being nominated, but they do a good job keeping it behind closed doors.  Without proof of wrong doing, I can only assume that whoever was not nominated or who did not win simply lost out to someone that meet the standard better.  That is all.  Our approval or enjoyment of the film is not taken into question that would be a People’s Choice award. 

If you chose not to recognize the esteem of the award, then that is of course your decision.  However, the awards are meaningful to those that receive them.  They are something special to be coveted by them and to be admired by others.  Someone has gone out of their way to highlight some portion of their work as unique and special.  I don’t see that as being a load of “BS” or “meaningless” in any sense of the word.

Also saying you will turn off the idiot box and turn on the computer is like saying you will turn a light off and back on again.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2009, 12:16:35 AM »


Also saying you will turn off the idiot box and turn on the computer is like saying you will turn a light off and back on again.


You couldn't be more incorrect. There's no comparision between the two media, at least what I use them for.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2009, 12:21:06 AM »

You know, reviewing the thread, I'm very compelled to ask. Are you all trying to disprove me because you really think I'm wrong, or because you don't happen to like me?

Don't be shy...I really only like a handful of users here myself, but I tend to shrug my shoulders at a group that can argue discrimination when they practice in the forums.

Offline Aysleen

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2009, 12:37:51 AM »
Ranking any one participant in any artform is very subjective and not without its debates.  The movies, being a form of art that cannot truly be quantified, are going to have this same problem.  There will always be dissension as to who should have been nominated and which party should have received the award.  Reviewing the bonus and negative of any “artistic” piece is certainly a hard thing, skewed by our actual enjoyment of that piece.  The standards set by the award show are their own and those that are awarded are judged on those standards.  Whether you agree with the standards is obviously up for debate, but to say that the whole affair is meaningless because you don’t like the selection is quite selfish. 

If you want to see actors that are snubbed, simply look at comedians.  Many of them fail to get Oscars because they are looked down upon.  Yet comedy is art and these people are often times looked over in favor of more “dramatic” scenes and films.  Movies that make us laugh or feel good are no less important or artistic, but they don’t fit the standards.  That is all and so those movies continue to not be brought up and those actors not rewarded.  Many simply take solace in the money made, the support of their fans and the awards of less well known but equally prestigious institutions that deal with their chosen profession.

There is no real evidence that I see regarding foul play at the award show.  I’m sure politics and money does take some credit for people being nominated, but they do a good job keeping it behind closed doors.  Without proof of wrong doing, I can only assume that whoever was not nominated or who did not win simply lost out to someone that meet the standard better.  That is all.  Our approval or enjoyment of the film is not taken into question that would be a People’s Choice award. 

If you chose not to recognize the esteem of the award, then that is of course your decision.  However, the awards are meaningful to those that receive them.  They are something special to be coveted by them and to be admired by others.  Someone has gone out of their way to highlight some portion of their work as unique and special.  I don’t see that as being a load of “BS” or “meaningless” in any sense of the word.


I think THIS is spot on.

Offline Lilias

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2009, 07:25:10 AM »
I don't care to disprove you, or any other discontent, I just don't agree. Benjamin Button will probably be the big winner, and well deserved. How come nobody mentioned the injustice of leaving Cate Blanchett out? Just because she already has an Oscar?

Offline Trieste

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2009, 12:59:02 AM »
You know, reviewing the thread, I'm very compelled to ask. Are you all trying to disprove me because you really think I'm wrong, or because you don't happen to like me?

Don't be shy...I really only like a handful of users here myself, but I tend to shrug my shoulders at a group that can argue discrimination when they practice in the forums.


I disagree with you, and I happen to find the outrage over "zomg Oscar snubs, the Academy is a conspiracy!" laughable... at very best.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2009, 01:36:23 AM »

Well at least then we share something in common. We've both posted things the other has snickered in their beer over.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2009, 01:41:03 AM »
Well, that's the point!

Although it wasn't beer. I wish it was beer. I unfortunately have no beer at this time. So it was a watery snicker instead.

Offline Aysleen

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2009, 10:16:23 AM »
You know, reviewing the thread, I'm very compelled to ask. Are you all trying to disprove me because you really think I'm wrong, or because you don't happen to like me?

Don't be shy...I really only like a handful of users here myself, but I tend to shrug my shoulders at a group that can argue discrimination when they practice in the forums.


I don't know you.   Besides that, I don't dislike anyone on this forum.  I may not enjoy posting with everyone here, and I certainly don't agree with what everyone says, but that doesn't mean I don't like them.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 10:17:54 AM by Aysleen »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2009, 11:29:27 AM »
You know, reviewing the thread, I'm very compelled to ask. Are you all trying to disprove me because you really think I'm wrong, or because you don't happen to like me?

Don't be shy...I really only like a handful of users here myself, but I tend to shrug my shoulders at a group that can argue discrimination when they practice in the forums.

I disagree with you because you're basically criticizing the academy (Oscars whatever) for their opinion. Sure, they give awards for their opinions but they tend to have seniority over you and myself. Your criticizing them with opinions of your own. It's basically just rage against the establishment. Go start your own award show if you don't like it. There are plenty of those independent award ceremonies. 

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Re: Why award shows don't matter
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2009, 02:21:50 PM »
Just remember the old saying.  'Opinions are like a$$holes.  Everyone's got one.'  Personally, I don't give a whoop about the Oscars, or the SAG awards, or the Grammys - sometimes the Tonys, but I haven't paid much attention to those either.

Now, the Razzies are sometimes worth a peek, but very few of the actors ever show up to receive their awards.

Basically, I like what I like, and no amount of award-show hype is going to make me see a movie I have no interest in.  Proper company, on the other hand, might - and might lead to me changing my opinion.