The Kingmaker (Pathfinder Adventure Path 1-20) (Closed?)

[persephone325]

You might not, but the rules does. Feat states: "Feeding on unwilling intelligent creatures is an evil act."  Its the only drawback form the feat, as its otherwise very very good.

I know. I mentioned earlier how I had forgotten because the DM of the old game told me we were going to ignore it. ^^

I'm debating changing it all together. But I'm going to wait for our DM to give his input on the matter.

[wander]

Don't you need to be Level 6 for Leadership Feat?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Don't you need to be Level 6 for Leadership Feat?

Not 6th but 7th.

Luckum's Appearance section made me grin and laugh, good stuff! 

I agree, made me chuckle 

[persephone325]

Strangely enough, the Leadership feat isn't listed as a prerequisite for the Recruits feat.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Strangely enough, the Leadership feat isn't listed as a prerequisite for the Recruits feat.

Aye, but it has special note; Recruits counts as the Leadership feat for purposes of prerequisites. A character cannot have both Leadership and Recruits. A character with Recruits that later qualifies for Leadership may exchange this feat for Leadership immediately upon qualifying (selecting one minor cohort to become a full cohort, while the rest move on).

So, you pick Recruits in 5th level, then later swap it for leadership in 7th level and pick one minor cohorts to become full time cohort and rest move on (or turn to other followers).

[persephone325]

Aye, but it has special note; Recruits counts as the Leadership feat for purposes of prerequisites. A character cannot have both Leadership and Recruits. A character with Recruits that later qualifies for Leadership may exchange this feat for Leadership immediately upon qualifying (selecting one minor cohort to become a full cohort, while the rest move on).

So, you pick Recruits in 5th level, then later swap it for leadership in 7th level and pick one minor cohorts to become full time cohort and rest move on (or turn to other followers).

I did see that, but just thought it was strange that if it relies on a Leadership feat...why it wouldn't be listed as a prereq.

[Vergil Tanner]

I might pick up the Recruits Feat too at some point. Maybe not Level 5, but somewhere along the line; In my head, Drazzek isn't going to be interested in building a Kingdom with the rest of his party. In my head, he's going to build his own independent Mercenary Company that operates out of its own City State base. Still working out all the details, but it should work, hypothetically speaking.

[Zaer Darkwail]

I did see that, but just thought it was strange that if it relies on a Leadership feat...why it wouldn't be listed as a prereq.

Read more carefully; A character cannot have both Leadership and Recruits. So you cannot have leadership as prerequisite as you cannot have both recruits and leadership. That's why recruits feat has note that once you qualify for leadership (in 7th level and Recruits can be picked on 5th level), you can/should swap out Recruits for actual followers and cohort. As recruits (even if they are -4 level behind you) are much less in number compared to followers.

Ofc if you want small group/council of students/apprentices who run things for you in kingdom/city, then Recruits makes most sense (they fill governing spots in kingdom). However recruits cannot roll craft/profession rolls for you and you can only travel with one at the time. However with leadership you can get followers and assign highest level followers on governing positions as well and they can roll craft/profession rolls for you. So overall Recruits feat should be viewed as watered down version of Leadership which you can get early and later on trade it for actual leadership feat.

[Miroque]

You cannot have both Recruits and Leadership feats. You can get Recruits at level 5, and it changes into Leadership at level 7 IF you choose so.
Leadership cant be preq for recruits as you get recruits 2 level prior to leadership... duh...

[persephone325]

You cannot have both Recruits and Leadership feats. You can get Recruits at level 5, and it changes into Leadership at level 7 IF you choose so.
Leadership cant be preq for recruits as you get recruits 2 level prior to leadership... duh...

I've never dabbled in Kingmaker before, and I still consider myself relatively new to Pathfinder. So I would appreciate you all being patient with me.

[Chulanowa]

hey c'mon, there's no need to be patronizing guys; Not everyone's got the same level of experience with leadership and whatnots.

[Miroque]

There was nothing patronizing on my post. Just to make rules clear to those without the right knowledge. And to show the reason why Recruits might be more suitable option to some characters (and to Kingmaker AP in whole, which I think its best suited anyway. Not many groups have the needed numbers to fill the extremely needed slots.)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Sorry if I sounded patronizing; but I just pointed out the line in text where it explains clearly that you cannot have both leadership and recruit feats (and considering recruit feat is taken sooner, it would make more sense recruit is prerequisite for leadership than other way around).

[persephone325]

"Duh" sounded pretty patronizing to me. It's hard to convey tone through text, so your post did come off a little rude to me.

It happens. But as long as we keep it in mind for the future, then I doubt there will be any problems.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, sorry for perhaps 'sarcastic' underlining on text what I meant to drive point in regarding the feat. I myself got dyslexia and I need watch for my writing and grammar (reading works fine) and so I should not nitpick for reading mistakes. However in RL there is more than enough examples of people who do not bother even read manual/instructions/reports or folks who read but still do not get some matter (it's sort annoyance which makes both me and mother teeth grit together).

Example; mom writes she has A and B factors limiting his work capacity; then office lady (who should had read paper which she demanded mom to fill first) sends mom's applications to jobs which specifically do not suit people with A and B factors. So when I quoted directly the special part of the feat (word by word) it felt as if you did not read it and so I felt annoyed so sorry for that 

[persephone325]

No worries. I'm sorry, too.

Sometimes even when I do read things, they don't always stick. So it's entirely possible that I read it an't totally forgot in that short time span. It's my own fault, really. Lol

[Roleplay Frog]

There is also taking the leadership feat and being the power behind the throne with a cohort on the throne.

Tempting as it sounds,  can understand any DM instabanning leadership. It's just so err.. well. utterly broken. I guess in this campaign it's a special case?

Aye, we can hash the matter on the table/IC who will sit on throne in the end :)

I concur, can worry about getting froggo on throne later. *nodnods*

Nah, froggo is not rulership material. More seclusive mad scientist to be appeased for assistance material. *nodnod*

True! Alternatively she can regard it as a natural aspect of her existence and seek to embrace it in a 'natural' and beneficial way

Seven health benefits of drinking blood and why you should do it!

[wander]

Doctors hate her! Click here to find out how you can benefit from Drinking Blood!

[Roleplay Frog]

This guy gets it.
Check out how Mr. S (537) looked before and after trying out our secret drink!

[TheScarletBlade]

@Vergil: Let me know by the end of the day if you want to be on team tragic past. You can help assist with their squishiness problem.

@Pers: Here is how I will weigh in on the whole blood drinking thing. Inherently evil is totally subjective. Half my stupid country believes guns are inherently evil. The other half doesn't. Does that make them inherently evil?  I believe if you drink the blood of a 0 hp bandit that was trying to gut you a second before, thats not evil, thats just combat. Now, drinking the blood of a unwilling party member or feeding on the citizenry of your country: that would be inherently evil. Plus, pers is true neutral, with no inclination towards good or evil.  Does she can about committing an act that it "inherently evil?" I dunno. As I dm I can hand out evil points for inherently evil acts dropping her character towards neutral evil eventually, but if she feeds of crappy bandits trying to kill her, I don't see that as evil.

Alright now to address the fun logistics of these grand games since people are curious. Each party is going to have three forums dedicated to their game. Side thread for adult related content. A battle thread for combat and an exploration/rp thread. If anyone knows how to make group game sub thread things, let me know because that would help but it not, oh well, all the links will be in our OOC thread and here. Side thread is self explanatory I think.

For the exploration thread, this will be where the bulk of interaction will be: either between party members or between pcs and npcs. Once the pcs start exploring the very large greenbelt map, I'll be updating the top of the exploration thread with the hex map for exploration. It has a token for the party on it and will move as the party decides what area to explore. As the party clears an area, it will be X out on the map or a landmark placed if its a landmark area.

The battle thread is where major combat is going to take place. I have maps of every area and will post an updated map after every move in the battlethread. The current status of everyone, their placements, effects and the map will be on the first posts of the battle thread. In initiative order, everyone will write up their post and place their rolls for to hit,spell save,damage and the works on the bottom of their post. I'll determine the effect of said move and update the top post, so the next person just needs to look at the top post and then determine their next move. I feel like using this method allows the tactical side of combat to blend with descriptive role playing of characters actions.


(Example Battlethread: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=273337.0 )


Like I've mentioned before, I have been dming for a decade but never on E. If anything here is egregious or ridiculous, feel free to scold me. As always, comments and criticism is always accepted. Hope I also explained it well enough. As for rolls, I am curious if everyone is willing to use the dicebot here on E? I am open to other methods, whatever a specific party feels comfortable doing.

[TheScarletBlade]

Front page has been updated with Party info, so its easy to find!!

[Miroque]

@TSB:  I think that 3 threads will work wonders, but might need 1 more, when time calls for it "City planning/downtime thread" not something we need from the start, but after building our own city/kingdom its needed, and on the 1 post should contain the "Kingdom sheet" and map of the kingdom, and map of the city.

I use Roll20 for my own kingmaker campaign, and as its way more intuitive platform, I can easily keep updating "team tragic Past" city map (as I have made tokens and such for the city), and keep posting the new updated map time to time on E! thread.

Kingdom sheet should be kept and updated by GM or "treasurer" of the said kingdom imho.

[TheScarletBlade]

I was thinking that someone in the party would want to hold the kingdom sheet when we got to that point. Great minds think alike!

[LizzieV]

I organized things in my Traveller game using an information/thread tracker thread and then having sections for everything. Depending on where this is going for the different groups (non-adult, light, bon, nc, extreme, one of the exotics, etc) then the requirements might be different.

I'd recommend using the following set up for a group of 4-5 (since you can have 2 threads per person)




• Information Tracker - Contains Thread Links and other Info relevant to the game. It's useful for world building and you can even keep track of the actual Kingdom Stats in it in a central place. It's typically good for the Kingdom Thread to be GM editable and not player Editable in this case so players can backroom deal or discuss things and only final decisions are set in one place.
• OOC - Thread to discuss and BS in OOC. It's really useful and helps people chat and get to know each other a bit too between posts.
• Main Thread - Where the bulk of the RP takes place. You can also use it to track combat unless you plan on having plot RP going on at the same time as combat but typically since combat involves everyone at once there's not a huge reason to split it up unless you really want to
• Sex Thread (Assuming it's in the light-ex range) - Players on E like their smut but you don't want it to get in the way of the story rp. If you have a side thread with tagging or what have you then people can trade posts about it without slowing things down.
• Character Sheets - A central place for people to post their sheets and modify them. It's also easier for a GM to just be able to scroll and reference through them.
• History/Side RP (optional) - This is a very useful thread for 2 different things when dealing with a group and long periods of time happening. Basically if someone wants to do little 'before hand stuff' with a story for background they can post history stuff or if they have a background with another player they can rp it out. In addition there is a lot of potential for just little side stories to be going on between people. You don't want to derail the main game from progression but you might have people who want to roleplay like 'a night at camp' or 'backroom politics negotiations' even if the outcome is already known ahead of time. It gives a lot of extra character development time and helps flesh out NPCs more if the GM is interested in it. Like if you are staying in a town for a while and you want to go have drinks with an NPC/PC without grinding the game to a halt this gives you a place to do it without making everyone else wait on you or be unable to actually get into character outside of small bits between fights.

Maybe later on there is a 'council chamber' section but if there's a lot of stuff like that or downtime actions a thread for that might be needed.

[wander]

I highly second Lizzie's post. This is pretty much how things best work IMO and experience.