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Author Topic: Danica Roem becomes first trans*person to be elected to (US) state legislature  (Read 4323 times)

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Offline Mithlomwen

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He acknowledged that Roem preformed surgeries to change what he was born with because he decided he felt like being a girl. That does not mean he has to agree that he is a female just because of surgery and chemicals he puts in his body to change himself.

Something to keep in mind, is that people who suffer with gender identity issues don't wake up one day and 'decide they are going to be a boy/girl'.  They don't just decide they are going to change their identity on a whim.  Most people suffer their entire lives with this issue, and when they finally make the decision to make the change, it's not an easy decision

The hormones they have to take are not easy on their bodies, and the surgeries they have to go through are brutal.

So to address the issue with a flippant statement like 'He acknowledged that Roem preformed surgeries to change what he was born with because he decided he felt like being a girl', is very insulting to folks dealing with gender identity issues.   

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Something to keep in mind, is that people who suffer with gender identity issues don't wake up one day and 'decide they are going to be a boy/girl'.  They don't just decide they are going to change their identity on a whim.  Most people suffer their entire lives with this issue, and when they finally make the decision to make the change, it's not an easy decision

The hormones they have to take are not easy on their bodies, and the surgeries they have to go through are brutal.

So to address the issue with a flippant statement like 'He acknowledged that Roem preformed surgeries to change what he was born with because he decided he felt like being a girl', is very insulting to folks dealing with gender identity issues.   

It is also worth noting that in order to transition, heavy psychoanalysis, medical consultation and overall collaboration has to occur. From the tales I've heard, multiple psychologists over multiple years must agree that you are undertaking this venture for good reason.

The cumulative effect is that at the very least half a dozen professionals have to agree that Roem is, in fact, a woman. And if we cannot trust doctors to determine what the gender of an individual is, then by what authority are we defining gender if not medical?

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The 'bathroom bill' would have kept things the way they are... I am not familiar with the names you have listed, probably because I do not keep up with all the people changing genders and coming up with all the new identities. I only mentioned the bill to make sure I understood what the bill the Robbie worked on was what I thought, thank you for verifying.

I would have thought at least one would have been familiar, but no matter.

Laverne Cox - one of the actresses on Orange is the New Black.
Isis King - American model
Chaz Bono - son of Sonny and Cher, actor on American Horror Story
Balian Buschbaum - Olympic pole vaulter.

Offline HannibalBarca

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My son puts up with a lot of crap just for being who he is when it comes to restrooms.  He was assigned a female gender at birth, but revealed the gender he'd felt he was as long as he could remember when he was 13.  Now, if he goes into a women's restroom, he gets dirty looks and sometimes complaints.  He's even been yelled at for being in 'the wrong room'.  But when he's gone in a men's restroom, he's been yelled at even more.  I've even stepped in between him and a couple of men who got angry with him for being in 'their' restroom.  What the hell were they afraid of?  What unfounded fears did they have in their own heads at my kid using a restroom, women's or men's?  He's told me it's one of the worst things he has to do, using a public restroom.  He's a kindhearted, gentle person, and knowing that other people look at him with such malice only over his appearance makes my blood boil.

There are only two choices for him, and people in either don't want him there.  He's still human and still needs to use the restroom.  It's a question of empathy over fear, and too many people are conditioned to be afraid of what they don't understand.

Offline Hades

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It's also worth remembering that, despite being used interchangeably in everyday use, there is a difference between sex and gender. 

That aside however, given that the Republican that Ms. Roem defeated in the election proudly gave himself the title of "Virginia's chief homophobe" there is little reason to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he was being malicious or simple ignorant.  The man was considered a deeply conservative, fundamentalist Catholic even within GOP circles in the state house, introducing bills to ban both abortion and birth control, bills that would have allowed businesses and agencies licensed by the state to refuse service to members of the LGBT community (notably hospitals and pharmacies), blocked the appointment of an openly gay man to a state judge position purely because of his sexual orientation, and tried to impeach the state's Attorney General when he refused to defend the state's ban on same-sex marriage before a federal court.

So it's not that people suddenly learn that Mr. Marshall is a bigot by refusing to debate her and calling her by male pronouns.  It's that this was simply one more example of his bigotry on display, and the voters finally got tired of it and sent him him packing.

Offline HannibalBarca

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I correct my prior claim to four transgender candidates winning across the country.  It's actually seven.  Overall, almost forty members of the LGBTQ community won election the other night.

Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

No better job of demanding than by getting yourself elected to government office.

Offline HannibalBarca

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Furthermore, Lisa Middleton's election to the Palm Springs City Council makes everyone on that council a member of the LGBTQ community. I'm sure the same people who bewailed one multiethnic man winning the Presidency are bewailing an entire city council full of not-straights.

Deal with it.

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Furthermore, Lisa Middleton's election to the Palm Springs City Council makes everyone on that council a member of the LGBTQ community. I'm sure the same people who bewailed one multiethnic man winning the Presidency are bewailing an entire city council full of not-straights.

Deal with it.

I don't want to come off as rude or contrarian, but I don't think that's the best attitude to have. :/ it just alienates people. Instead we should really be extending a hand to them and going "See? Its not so bad. Just open your hearts and we can all benefit together."

We only truly destroy our enemies when we make them our friends.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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I'm not entirely certain I agree with that. I mean, in some cases, I'm sure it's proven to be accurate. For instance, in my son's kindergarten class. However, never in the case of any tyrannical or bigoted thinking has there been hope of the most ardent bigots every deciding to come around because someone just eased them gently into anything but "that good night".

It's like thoughts and prayers. In and of themselves not bad. But if you think that's going to get you out of all your troubles, there is a delusion at work. Even god said something along the lines that we should be hot or cold, but if we're lukewarm he will spit us from his mouth.

Basically, there comes a time when you have to draw a battle line and decide what side of it you're on. Can't keep saying "Don't punch nazis, that's not nice, do it the political way." Then "don't gloat, open your hand to them and be kind". I'm not making a homophobe a bowl of soup when he gets the sniffles, I'm hoping he learns a hard frakin' lesson from it. I'm also hoping that's when his health insurance ... I dunno, glitches out or somethin' (I dunno how you do it down there, your healthcare is crap).

What it comes down to is the same thing I tell my kid. "Don't be an asshole, get off the furniture. If you fall, you're going to hurt yourself and I'm going to laugh first, then people will look at me weird because moms aren't supposed to do that, so... just get the hell down?" Translated, if I tell you you're being bigoted and you didn't know it? That's one thing. If I tell you and you take steps to educate yourself (Even if you disagree with me), that's one thing. To proudly claim to be homophobic, to spend your life attacking the "little" people, those who are already downplayed and underestimated? Sorry, that makes you the bad guy. Of fucking course I am going to want to see you defeated.

And when you're defeated, I'm going to shove the point home by reminding you that I don't need any fucking friends like you. Nobody needs friends like you. Or neighbours. Or leaders. Or or members of this society. Your views are hurtful and unreasonable and we have evolved as a social species that depends on ostracism of unwanted traits to keep ourselves alive.

Get a hold of a gun and shoot a bunch of people? Behind bars, get outta our streets and get your ass somewhere you can't influence others to do the same thing. Inspire others to do so with hateful rhetoric? Follow the orange jumpsuit in front of you and welcome to your new life gents. Watch that last step into the showers, it's a doozy.

Flip your shit because some invisible voyeur in the sky accidentally gave some girl a cock? You get to sit in the societal time-out corner till you're ready to play with the other children. When they start showing remorse for their stupidity and made strides to atone for their pettiness and make it up to the people they've wronged, I might extend a hand of friendship. Right now, my friendship is better spent on the people they would victimize instead of spending all my life and energy trying to convince them to change. To paraphrase their Jesus, "ain't nobody got time for that."

P.S. "You" being the bigot, not anyone here personally.

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I'm not entirely certain I agree with that. I mean, in some cases, I'm sure it's proven to be accurate. For instance, in my son's kindergarten class. However, never in the case of any tyrannical or bigoted thinking has there been hope of the most ardent bigots every deciding to come around because someone just eased them gently into anything but "that good night".

It's like thoughts and prayers. In and of themselves not bad. But if you think that's going to get you out of all your troubles, there is a delusion at work. Even god said something along the lines that we should be hot or cold, but if we're lukewarm he will spit us from his mouth.

Basically, there comes a time when you have to draw a battle line and decide what side of it you're on. Can't keep saying "Don't punch nazis, that's not nice, do it the political way." Then "don't gloat, open your hand to them and be kind". I'm not making a homophobe a bowl of soup when he gets the sniffles, I'm hoping he learns a hard frakin' lesson from it. I'm also hoping that's when his health insurance ... I dunno, glitches out or somethin' (I dunno how you do it down there, your healthcare is crap).

What it comes down to is the same thing I tell my kid. "Don't be an asshole, get off the furniture. If you fall, you're going to hurt yourself and I'm going to laugh first, then people will look at me weird because moms aren't supposed to do that, so... just get the hell down?" Translated, if I tell you you're being bigoted and you didn't know it? That's one thing. If I tell you and you take steps to educate yourself (Even if you disagree with me), that's one thing. To proudly claim to be homophobic, to spend your life attacking the "little" people, those who are already downplayed and underestimated? Sorry, that makes you the bad guy. Of fucking course I am going to want to see you defeated.

And when you're defeated, I'm going to shove the point home by reminding you that I don't need any fucking friends like you. Nobody needs friends like you. Or neighbours. Or leaders. Or or members of this society. Your views are hurtful and unreasonable and we have evolved as a social species that depends on ostracism of unwanted traits to keep ourselves alive.

Get a hold of a gun and shoot a bunch of people? Behind bars, get outta our streets and get your ass somewhere you can't influence others to do the same thing. Inspire others to do so with hateful rhetoric? Follow the orange jumpsuit in front of you and welcome to your new life gents. Watch that last step into the showers, it's a doozy.

Flip your shit because some invisible voyeur in the sky accidentally gave some girl a cock? You get to sit in the societal time-out corner till you're ready to play with the other children. When they start showing remorse for their stupidity and made strides to atone for their pettiness and make it up to the people they've wronged, I might extend a hand of friendship. Right now, my friendship is better spent on the people they would victimize instead of spending all my life and energy trying to convince them to change. To paraphrase their Jesus, "ain't nobody got time for that."

P.S. "You" being the bigot, not anyone here personally.

Ben trying to think up a proper response to this but cant seem to get thoughts in order without rambling or ending up in circular logic. So I will try to keep it short and clear.

Some of those people out there have hatred and bigotry born out of ignorance. Hate is the absence of love, and pouring more hate only increases it, we need to inject its counteragent and show some love when we can.

Now that isn't to say you try to give a hug to some Nazi punk who comes up to you with a pipe or a chain. But if you see a chance to extend a hand in friendship its always worth it, even if they spit on that hand. We cant let ourselves be dragged down into the same muck that this poisonous hatred is born from. Because if we do, then what the fuck were we fighting for? What is the point of it all if it ends up being the same bigotry with just a different mask?

We cant let it get that way.

I don't know if mr. "Chief homophobe' will ever see the error of his ways. That's his prerogative. If he wants to wake up every morning to be an asshole its his right. But I agree with how Ms. Roem reacted after winning. Its the proper, professional, way to do things.

The best way to heal the rift that has grown in our society is to reach out and unify again. To show that we are all people, we all live, we all love, we feel pain, and in the end we all die. And as such we should enjoy one another's company on this short journey for the beautiful thing it is.

At a certain point they cant be turned around, there are some who delight in causing pain to others and making others into 'those people'. But I don't want to be the person who looks at others as 'those people' I want to see everyone as 'my people' and keep on adding more people to my people. :P

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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And as sweet as that is, there comes a point when it's no longer practical. I believe that mindset to be unfortunately naive. The only place that people in flower crowns with forever smiles actually end up beating the odds and triumphing over evil is in Disney movies.

Yeah, there are some that are just plain ignorant. Once we sort them out and teach them better, they're free to try for friendship. But I'm not about to bring a rabid dog to lie down with the lambs. That's just crappy business practice.

To be clear? I'm not advocating attacking them, it's just not necessary and I do agree with you and Roem in that point. But I also agree with Barca when he, without remorse, says "deal with it." He's not saying "I hope it hurts you", he's not even crowing with laughter over the whole thing. He's probably a better person than I am. But telling him he's wrong for insisting that this is the way things ought to be? I'm not down for that. This victory was hard won, even a sociopath like me can recognize that.

In the end, people like me are sent to make sure people like Trump don't hurt people like you. There's nothing wrong with thinking as you do. But the world needs people who are willing to be firm so that things can actually get done.

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And as sweet as that is, there comes a point when it's no longer practical. I believe that mindset to be unfortunately naive. The only place that people in flower crowns with forever smiles actually end up beating the odds and triumphing over evil is in Disney movies.

Oh?

Off the top of my head I can think of some people who would disagree.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


I suppose their work meant nothing?

Quote
Yeah, there are some that are just plain ignorant. Once we sort them out and teach them better, they're free to try for friendship. But I'm not about to bring a rabid dog to lie down with the lambs. That's just crappy business practice.

To be clear? I'm not advocating attacking them, it's just not necessary and I do agree with you and Roem in that point. But I also agree with Barca when he, without remorse, says "deal with it." He's not saying "I hope it hurts you", he's not even crowing with laughter over the whole thing. He's probably a better person than I am. But telling him he's wrong for insisting that this is the way things ought to be? I'm not down for that. This victory was hard won, even a sociopath like me can recognize that.

But what you do after a victory is also important, as it sets an important example. Do you laugh at your defeated enemy? Do you mock them? Do you tell them to just get over it because they lost?

Or do you reach down and help them up, and show them a better way?

Quote
In the end, people like me are sent to make sure people like Trump don't hurt people like you. There's nothing wrong with thinking as you do. But the world needs people who are willing to be firm so that things can actually get done.

People like you make sure Trump doesn't hurt people like me? Oh yes the cheetah man is so scary.

I'm not even sure how to respond to that. I'm usually a very snarky 'fuck both sides' person who tends to get grumpy at the drop of a hat. But on rare occasions my idealistic and hopeful side comes out. This is one of those moments.

More acts like this will be far more effective
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


Protesters on both sides came together and instead of anger and swearing there were tears hugs, rejoicing and prayer.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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I think you're dangerously conflating a few issues here. I've stated time and time again I'm not talking about the people that are willing to change. And Hannibal didn't say anything about mocking these people, he didn't talk about putting them down or even being remotely harsh with them. From what I gathered, he was basically turning their own words around on them, and allowing no propaganda/partisan stupidity in saying they were going to have to face reality one way or another.

You mention Ghandi, but I'm not sure "eye for an eye" really belongs as a steadfast moment for a man who clung to the same religious laws that told him to beat his wife. Just saying.

And yes, while Dr. King did say to love his brother for love would lead the way, he also did not lay down in the street and allow white men to walk all over him for the sake of keeping peace. In fact, it was peace of mind directly he intended to stir up.

These people have been shown a better way and refuse to allow it to happen. I also don't feel it's fair to conflate protestors with evil people. Just because someone protests something doesn't make them evil. What Hannibal was talking about - again, so far as I gather - are those who get spitting mad at the concept of equality. The people who can't understand why someone born with male genitalia would give up that privilege to become a lowly woman and cannot trust those sort, and would be damned if they're going to let a woman come up and usurp what is rightfully the domain of men. This is the sort of mindset that would make them reach for their second amendment weapon and their first amendment shield in an attempt to abuse those who stand on the council that HB was exulting over. He didn't tell them they were assholes (because again, he's a better person than I am, so people like you might say) just that this is reality and all the stomping of feet in the world wasn't going to fix that.

Listen, darling, I dunno how to break it to you, but the last time Nazis felt comfortable because the leader of the country was letting them walk unchallenged through the streets, the problem wasn't solved with fuzzy cardigans and labrador puppies. When it comes down to the necessities, you need people willing to shove back so that the ones who were built to dish out endless love don't get banged up too badly in the process. You can be snarky if you want, but that isn't going to change reality.

The people hugging and praying... nice enough, I suppose, but it's still not going to change the minds of religious fundamentalists with hate in their hearts and malice in their eyes. I'm not stupid enough to walk up to a mofo with a handgun and offer a hug. That's just going to get people I'm responsible for hurt or worse.

To be clear, I'm not saying anyone unhappy with democratic wins needs to be bombed out of existence: I understand the concept of temperance, and most people aren't a big enough threat to warrant that, with a few notable historical exceptions. What I am saying is that being firm with people is not something you ought to chastise your allies for. I certainly am not going to teach my boy to be someone who lets others beat the everliving shit out of the people around him. He's going to learn to hug and say he's sorry and talk things through in an attempt to solve it, but when push comes to shove, I'm also going to teach him to say "Back the fuck off before I fill you in with your own goddamned teeth, you hear me?"

Attacking Hannibal because he says, essentially, "This is the reality, live with it or leave but your hate isn't welcome here" is just ridiculous. My mother's a hippie type too, stuck somewhere between woodstock and a Stepford throwback. "Just believe and everything will work out." Fuck that, flower child. Good thoughts and healing crystals to whomever wants them, I guess, send your thoughts and prayers but don't be an idiot. Get up off your ass and do something about it. If it's a danger, end it.

By all means, if it can be healed with a hug and a band-aid, it was probably better handled by a kindergarten teacher anyway and as such it's not really worth my notice. But when real shit happens, when it hits the fan, you get the Mr. Rogers nonsense out of the way of the battle lines.

Even he fought for his country, and if he'll pick up a gun, who is anyone to veto the idea that sometimes martial force is needed?


This all misses the point, though. The point was, in the end, that all HB said was "I bet they hate it. They're gonna have to get over that" and didn't deserve to be chastised for it. I'm not keen on being lectured for not liking pastels enough when there's real work to be done and I assume I'm not alone in that even here.

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Wait what? I'm not attacking Hannibal. I'm just saying I don't think his way of going about this was the best.

I don't really have much to say in response to the rest though. Instead I think I will bow out at this point since if I keep going it will just be the both of us going round and round again.

Offline HannibalBarca

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I'm indeed talking about the people with whom no amount of discussion, debate, cajoling, or argument will help in changing their mind.  There are more than enough people who can be talked to and can walk a mile in your shoes and learn some empathy.  Those are not the people I'm describing in my earlier posts, however.

I once read an alternative history fiction story about the Nazis winning world war two.  The story itself was based in India, and how Gandhi dealt with the Nazis.  The summary was, he failed, because the people you are trying to change have to be capable of shame.  The English, despite some horrific atrocities, were able to be shamed into capitulating and leaving a nation they never should have tried to conquer in the first place.  Gandhi's tactics worked well against them, though it took much time.  His system never would have worked in Nazi-controlled Germany, however.  Long before that they would have sent him to a concentration camp.

I've often looked at the disparate factions of the 'change' branch of history.  A good example would be Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, or Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois.  All four were leaders in the civil rights movement, but two were moderates and two were radicals.  The question bounced between the pairs of men was 'how should we advocate for equality?'  The two moderates believed in working within the system; the two radicals believed in working outside it or actively trying to destroy it.  History has shown that both options have times when they are necessary--understanding which is necessary is the difficult part.  Sometimes a line must be drawn in the sand and cannot be crossed, particularly when death or destruction of freedom is involved.

There can be no compromising with people who have no respect, and actively seek to remove the label of humanity from you or the social group you belong to.  Nazi Germany was only one example in history when people were stripped of their humanity and treated as less than vermin.  The genocide in Rwanda was another example.  History is rife with such examples, and I'm not in the right frame of mind at present to draw forth more examples, though they can easily enough be found with web searches. 

I've studied too much history in my 48 years to turn a blind eye to the rising of yet more groups of people who would bring us to more of those moments where inhumanity reigns.  Dr. King repeated a truism that had been said by others before him in history: evil triumphs when good people do nothing.  There is a such thing as good and evil in this world, and when evil is defeated, I will mock it for what it is, and expose it for others to see.  Robert Marshall championed evil, and his electoral defeat is a significant thing not only to me but many others.  It makes the country a little bit safer, but there is never a time when one can rest from the task of being vigilant.  Trump being elected is as good an example of people resting on their laurels and assuming the best, then getting the worst.

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My concern, Lust, was that you decided that there was no place, ever, for his response. The truth is, to everything there is a season. Every time we run into each other, you and I, it's always about the idea of prayer for some reason. Sometimes, it's in context of the arrogance from SOME religious types in regards to morality and in this case it's about the idea of the lack of usefulness of prayer in a battlezone type of scenario.

Decreeing that the only option in the face of hate is love is only half the story. Hate isn't the absence of love. It's what happens when love is injured. But no one is talking about hate in the initial points. Instead, it's bigotry that we're talking about. That's not hate, that is apathy. Apathy, in that it is incapable of making an emotional connection to other people based on arbitrary differences. So, yes, there is a place when love is the answer: that is when there is hate and love is necessary for healing.

But there is a time when a refusal to pull punches is also necessary. Just because it may seem distasteful, doesn't mean it's not necessary. We have sewers for a reason - humans are full of shit and someone's gotta clean it up.

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I have, far too often, seen this idea that the oppressed people are those who have to make all the effort, that we have to not only fight for our cause but in the same moment be perfect paragons of innocence and restraint. Sometimes we get angry, sometimes we are hurt and all we want to do is lash back, sometimes, when we see that brief moment of a hint of change for the better all we might want to do is rub it in our opponent's faces. Because they get to do that and more. They get to demand we not even exist from the space of their own little bubbles, while we get told

'Yeah, but you lashed out so you're as bad as them :(' from the people who would totally ally with is if we were just a little more quiet, a little more well behaved. Us lashing out is not the same as people literally getting away with openly wishing we were dead, or openly disrespecting our very identities which many of us have fought so damn hard for. That's not even to mention the fact that, as Fury said, Hannibal wasn't even really 'lashing out,' I've seen and certainly thought much worse.

Too often people get silenced from expressing their hurt or their victory, and I don't believe it is the conscious intention of the people who do it, I desperately hope that it's not people just trying to look for any reason not to be on our side. But it often feels that way.

And, frankly, when peaceful protest and love are just ignored by the people hurting us, if getting angry and violent and taking what we bloody well deserve as human beings (rights, acceptance, etc), is the only thing that gets results? Well that's going to happen, sooner or later, it has happened before and history has always shown which side was right. It wasn't the people who just sat around wishing people would stop making waves, that is for sure.

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you get the Mr. Rogers nonsense out of the way of the battle lines.

Even he fought for his country, and if he'll pick up a gun, who is anyone to veto the idea that sometimes martial force is needed?

While we're dispelling false assumptions, Reverend Fred Rogers never served in the military.

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Also relevant:


Offline pansexualbadwolf

Personally, I am basking in the warm glow of the schadenfruede of the man who wrote the anti-trans bathroom bill being defeated in a public election by a trans woman. It's delicious, honestly, I could probably stop eating and just sustain myself with the beautiful irony of the situation. i'm so so happy for Danica, and for all of my trans friends. This victory was momentous, and as a queer woman, it brings tears to my eyes to be able to say that I lived to see it happen. I never thought I'd see a black President in my lifetime, either, but things happen. As awful as the political climate in this country is right now, it's amazing too because it has spurred more people than ever to get involved in local politics. That's where big change starts-from the ground up. If we keep moving forward like this, maybe one day we'll have a trans WOC as President. Not only were a slew of LGBTQIA+ people elected this time around, an atheist and a Sikh made it into office, too. All we can do is keep chipping away.

I think you've all made some great points-it's very difficult to change a person's mind when you're on the defensive and they feel like they're being attacked. Even a crapbag bigot has feelings, and hatred/ignorance is taught, not innate. If they became that way, it was for a reason. A guy I knew who referred to Obama as the 'king of the n*****s' was raped in prison by a black guy. Does that mean it's right for him to hate or disparage all black people? Of course not. But given his own personal trauma, it's understandable (but not excusable) psychologically. There are some things a person will never be able to comprehend or empathize with if they haven't lived through it themselves, and the problem with telling someone to walk a mile in another person's shoes is that people have a tendency to imagine what they personally would do in the same scenario rather than imagining what the person with a different set of circumstances would do. We can't apply our own context to another person's actions or behaviors, or rather, it's not fair to. At the end of the day, save a few true sociopaths, no one wants to be perceived as a 'bad' person and we're now living in a world where it's becoming increasingly bad and unacceptable to be bigoted, racist, homophobic, etc... But these things are often ingrained in a person if they've been that way long enough, so when they feel threatened they do what any creature backed into a corner will do-they lash out. As infuriating as it is, especially if you are the one being attacked for being trans, gay, black, etc... sometimes the best thing you really can do is show that person compassion and prove to them that whatever misconceptions they have are wrong.

That said, we cannot be complacent and just accept things as they are. Slavery wasn't abolished without a war, women didn't win the right to vote by shutting up and sitting down, the civil rights movement didn't make progress without civil disobedience.

As Elie Wiesel said, "We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim." It seems like most of us here are on the same side-of equality and equity. But we're all using different language to describe it. Miscommunication is at the heart of most conflicts, and people who are on the same page continue to fight because they don't realize they're on the same side. There isn't a right or wrong way to win a 'war' like this one, because it depends on the context. If you're interacting one-on-one with someone, compassion and empathy makes more sense, you aren't going to turn their heart or change their mind with name calling, even if it is the truth. Of course it's not that simple on a national level, we can't just sit down the entire government and kill them with kindness, not when the language they speak is one of bigotry and violence. Both compassion and action can be effective tactics, but it depends on the context you use them in. If you're more comfortable with the kill them with kindness approach, start by trying to soften the hearts of the people you actually know. No one is 100% completely good or bad, so appeal to whatever part of them still seems human. If you change even one mind or give somebody a new or different perspective, that's a start. And if that's all you do, if that's all you feel emotionally and physical capable of, that's fine. If you want to march on Washington, call your local reps every week, write letters, boycott, or whatever, that's excellent too. If you want to do all those things, even better. Pretty sure Obama and Ghandi both said to be the change you want to see in the world, and I think that's damn good advice in these circumstances. Do what you feel capable of to achieve the changes you want to see, you don't necessarily have to sacrifice yourself in the process.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Hunh. My mistake about Mister Rogers, then. I apologize for that.

Online TheGlyphstone

Hunh. My mistake about Mister Rogers, then. I apologize for that.

If it's a common enough misbelief to warrant a Snopes article, I don't think an apology is necessary. ;D

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That's exactly where I found the info. I rarely take Wikipedia's word for anything, and digging through all that for the pertinent information is way more time than I have to spare.

Slightly off-topic: I can't remember where it was, but someone was debating somewhere in the PROC and said they refused to accept any references from Snopes or Politifact cause they're partisan democratic nonsense (paraphrased) and I just went "I can't take this person anymore."

Offline FeveredDreams

I would not refer to him as she either. Was Robbie a bigot because he did not agree with this Roem character’s lifestyle?
Robbie wrote a bill that was against mixing of bathrooms? I didn’t know that, but all the more reason to like him.

Disagreeing with a life style?  Sure you can do that.  I think it's scummy as hell though,  when it is something that... really really don't change your life at all.  It mostly just comes off as I think this is icky or this old book told me it's wrong.  As for the bathroom bill...  do you really think that trans people are in there perving on people?  They're not,  and whenever I hear people talk like this I kind of wonder if they're the type who enjoys peeping on people in public restrooms,  because that thought process has to come from somewhere.

Actual predators aren't going to listen to the ruling anyway,  and if you actually understood anything about being trans you'd know that the difficulties of going through the processes and how no predator would go through that sort of thing just to get their jollies off. 

Offline HannibalBarca

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That's exactly where I found the info. I rarely take Wikipedia's word for anything, and digging through all that for the pertinent information is way more time than I have to spare.

Slightly off-topic: I can't remember where it was, but someone was debating somewhere in the PROC and said they refused to accept any references from Snopes or Politifact cause they're partisan democratic nonsense (paraphrased) and I just went "I can't take this person anymore."

As Stephen Colbert said, reality has a well-known liberal bias.