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Author Topic: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks  (Read 987 times)

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Offline SkynetTopic starter

Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« on: September 28, 2017, 07:26:27 PM »
As one who’s rather active in the PROC subforums, I browse through quite a few threads. In a few instances I’ve seen some members of Elliquiy make reference to the YouTube Channel Black Pigeon Speaks as a good source of news. This has made me understandably worried, in that Black Pigeon Speaks frequently makes intellectually dishonest claims for the purposes of demonizing non-caucasian immigrants and women via a combination of intellectual dishonesty and scare-mongering. He’s far from a fringe voice: his more recent videos have high production values, he has around 245,000 subscribers and his videos average around 100,000 views with a high Like ratio.

The purpose of this thread is to highlight Black Pigeon Speaks’ intellectual dishonesty using various sources. This is not concerning any specific video or subject. Rather, it's a more holistic view to highlight the dangerous nature of relying upon his judgment. I watched several videos on his channel, and it’s quite common for him to take a news article headline without showing the body of the text or posting a link in the video description (which is also covered in some rebuttal videos below).

Video Sources, Non-BPS

There's a channel called Shaun & Jen which does a swell breakdown of Black Pigeon Speak's content. This channel makes far better arguments than I can make on the subject, so I encourage folks to watch any of them if you have time. S&J videos also provide source links in the respective video descriptions on the YouTube page.

Do Women Destroy Civilizations? A Response to Black Pigeon Speaks is a retort to his most watched and infamous video. BPS makes the claim that women are genetically inclined to side with "enemies of the tribem" and for this reason women's liberation is a negative societal force.



Abusing Statistics concerns BPS' supposed data analysis in regards to his anti-immigrant rhetoric.



Can Women Chess? is the shortest of the 3 videos I found, where he covers BPS' attempts to insinuate that women cannot compete with men in intellectual fields.




One of Black Pigeon Speaks videos was posted on The Daily Stormer. Although I do not know whether or not he uploaded the video himself, in congruence with the Daily Stormer post in the non-video section there is a worryingly high fanbase of white nationalists among his audience:

Video Sources, Black Pigeon Speaks Channel

Video where he claims that the defeat of the Nazis during WW2 and their subsequent demonization led to cultural decay and turmoil in Western values and (5:34 mark) indirectly relates the Holocaust to a cultural foundation myth:



Non-Video Sources

Shorenstein Center Article discusses Black Pigeon Speaks as part of a larger backdrop of far-right populism in US culture.

Twitter post using the triple parenthesis implying that Jews are preventing the spread of information on YouTube they dislike. This was retweeted by Black Pigeon Speaks' twitter account, Navyhato, and the original post used one of Black Pigeon Speaks' videos as an example of 'silenced' information.

If you're not in the know, the origin of the triple parenthesis was a Google app created by a Neo-Nazi to put them around Jewish and Jewish-sounding names to provide "evidence" of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy.



TL;DR

Black Pigeon Speaks is a white nationalist and misogynist who uses intentional falsehoods to promote the ideas that women should be submissive to men, that non-Caucasian and Muslim immigrants will lead to the destruction of western civilization, and that white liberals and leftists are betraying their own people by seeking integration of said immigrants. Add in some coded anti-Semitism for the sprinkling on the shit sundae.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 09:16:38 PM by Skynet »

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 07:34:37 PM »
I have seen BPS before. Specifically his video "Do women destroy civilizations?"

Its one of the few times I actually saw red in my vision. @_@

Offline Cognitive Brainfart

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 08:26:50 PM »
lol, White Turkey Speaks isn't worth your time, tbh. He makes videos about many things and he is sometimes right, but rarely reasonable.

I was made aware of him thanks to TJ Kirk (yeah I like his channel), who made a response to a video where Pidgeon talked about the downfall of atheism and also bashed TJ in the process. So I went to Pidgeon's channel because I found it interesting and watched some of his stuff. Among others also the above-mentioned video. While I agree with him on a few points he makes, I find the entire video very dishonest and trying to twist things in a way that makes women seem like moronic assholes. I didn't consider him worth my time, honestly.

Offline Oniya

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 02:34:11 AM »
I definitely hadn't heard of the triple-paren thing before.  I'm now very glad that I type out most of my emotes. 

Offline FreeElk

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 06:41:29 AM »
Unfortunately there are a great many people who argue like this. Cherry picking events and interpreting them as 'evidence' for what the person would like to believe*.

It sounds to me that Pigeon has beliefs that are threatened by modern society - that women shouldn't have as much freedom, that immigrants are always bad and other right-leaning beliefs. He just seems to have taken anything he sees as a link and tried to pin it on women, talking as if we have some nature we can't avoid but if that was true of humanity we wouldn't have built up the civilizations in the first place.

It makes me angry in a way...but mostly sad, I think, to think about how closed minded people can be and what might have pushed them into that.

*To some degree I suppose we all do this a little, we don't interrogate everything and probably hold some false beliefs.

Offline Cookie

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 03:01:32 PM »
I think I recall the illustrious pigeon use The Daily Mail as a source once (I'm not certain but do remember it) that alone would cast doubt on his judgement.

He makes a lot of bad arguments. I recall him quoting that conservative religious psychiatrist Paul McHugh that raises his head whenever people want to bash trans folks. No mention of contrary expert opinions, of which there are plenty. True ideologue BPS, extremely suspect.

Offline CopperLily

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 03:48:07 AM »
I have seen BPS before. Specifically his video "Do women destroy civilizations?"

Its one of the few times I actually saw red in my vision. @_@

Pop-culture evolutionary psychology has much to answer for. The sheer...*twitch*

Offline WindFish

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 06:04:36 AM »
YouTube is rarely a good source for news and information, especially from biased alt-right conspiracy theorists such as this guy.

Unfortunately I've encountered far too many people who like to argue like this.

Offline Cognitive Brainfart

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 07:50:41 AM »
YouTube is rarely a good source for news and information, especially from biased alt-right conspiracy theorists such as this guy.

Unfortunately I've encountered far too many people who like to argue like this.

Are there other guys? Or girls :P I haven't seen channels like this guy. Ones which are pretending to be reasonable but are not when you actually listen. I'm actually kind of afraid to ask because then I'll want to go and watch their videos which will probably make me rage.

Offline WindFish

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2017, 08:39:25 AM »
Are there other guys? Or girls :P I haven't seen channels like this guy. Ones which are pretending to be reasonable but are not when you actually listen. I'm actually kind of afraid to ask because then I'll want to go and watch their videos which will probably make me rage.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if there were. My experience mostly comes from debating people like that, which often results in them insulting me and resorting to memes and catchphrases.

Offline Cognitive Brainfart

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2017, 06:28:49 PM »
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if there were. My experience mostly comes from debating people like that, which often results in them insulting me and resorting to memes and catchphrases.

Sorry for any errors, I'm on the phone.

I am a fan of many youtubers from the centrist or skeptic community which some people consider to be far-right (which I disagree with but that's not the point). But Black Pidgeon, to me, is just going overboard with the 'arguments' in his videos in the sense that they are incredibly cherry-picked to serve his narrative. And his narrative is pretty much just 'the people I don't like are terrible because *insert single specifically-chosen evidence*'. In this case, those people are women. Some things I do agree with him on, for example when he was talking about biological differences between men and women because they obviously exist, but the implications he comes to from there are just mindblowing.
I recently looked at a few mgtow videos, just so I have something to lol at when I was bored, and they actually reminded me of Pidgeon's video in their message. It was something about 'women not being people' or something like that and it had me in tears (from laughing).

I just don't have the strength to get annoyed at this kind of stuff anymore, though it makes me sad that it often comes from otherwise reasonable people who I actually do see eye to eye with on other issues.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 06:29:55 PM by Cognitive Brainfart »

Offline Oniya

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2017, 06:55:38 PM »
Skepticism is all well and good.  Some degree of skepticism is definitely healthy.  We should analyze things instead of just swallowing whatever pills someone else is handing out.  Somewhat circularly, though, this means that you have to analyze the skeptics, too.  And yes, it feels really weird to find out that someone you thought was reasonable has beliefs that seem completely at odds with that reasonableness.  It particularly hurts to find that those beliefs might be directed against you.

Offline SkynetTopic starter

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 02:37:29 PM »
Related: although it may likely be due to an intern managing the account, Real Time with Bill Maher's official YouTube channel subscribed to Black Pigeon Speaks Channel.

Archived Link.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 10:24:56 AM »
I want to take a minute to point out here that there are a lot of people whose job or interest it is to make themselves familiar with stupid comments and arguments that might subscribe to the channel just to figure out what the other side is saying and be able to properly address it. I have a few channels like that, mostly conspiracy theory stuff, religious apologists and right-leaning sources that are, on some level, necessary for maintaining a well-rounded understanding of other points of view. IN fact, most of what has brought me to PROC is having an opinion and having taken the time to look for other opinions on the same subject in an attempt to let them change my mind.

Verified or not, I want to point out that subscribing to a YouTube channel doesn't necessarily mean that one subscribes to the beliefs.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 08:02:48 PM »
I want to take a minute to point out here that there are a lot of people whose job or interest it is to make themselves familiar with stupid comments and arguments that might subscribe to the channel just to figure out what the other side is saying and be able to properly address it. I have a few channels like that, mostly conspiracy theory stuff, religious apologists and right-leaning sources that are, on some level, necessary for maintaining a well-rounded understanding of other points of view. IN fact, most of what has brought me to PROC is having an opinion and having taken the time to look for other opinions on the same subject in an attempt to let them change my mind.

Verified or not, I want to point out that subscribing to a YouTube channel doesn't necessarily mean that one subscribes to the beliefs.

How many outspoken progressives follow a Donald Trump on Twitter, for an example of this kind of thinking in another arena.

Offline Oniya

Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2017, 12:57:49 AM »
How many outspoken progressives follow a Donald Trump on Twitter, for an example of this kind of thinking in another arena.

And why just re-tweet, when you can re-tweet with snarky commentary?

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Concerning the YouTuber Black Pigeon Speaks
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2017, 12:58:28 AM »
That's always been my motto.