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Author Topic: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.  (Read 2758 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« on: May 02, 2017, 11:43:35 PM »
For the past few years, more trans* people have been murdered than any prior year on record. It keeps going up, each year.

This fact alone directly threatens ten percent of Elliquiy's membership.

My best friend among them.



I have seen another disturbing trend, recently.

Highlighting 'left-wing' violence, while actively claiming right-wing violence is absent.

This is insulting to the victims of these crimes.

In Des Moines.

In Quebec.

In Houston.

This is only a tiny fraction.

Right-wing extremists are responsible for nearly three-quarters of extremist murders in the US. Left-wing violence makes up two percent.

The rhetoric on the right has people openly calling for genocide.

...to counter this, we get an example of someone throwing a bike lock.



There is a point at which this blatant hypocrisy needs to be called out for what it is.

The murder of innocents is well past this point.

This has been building for decades, now. We now have populations effectively perceiving different realities. Believing different things about objective facts.

History teaches that this leads to violence. Serious violence.

We often forget how things have changed in the past.

We highlight Martin Luther King and Ghandi.

We ignore the subtle threats behind their desire for the rights they are due. 'Malcom X Day' is not a federal holiday.

The end of the last gilded age was marked with an intense rise in political activism and literacy.

And violence.

Decades after the left scored its first political victories, the United States government still saw fit at one point to bomb its own citizens.



We can hope that things will get better. That this escalation of violence will cease.

Without action, they will not.

If you would hope for peace, it is on you to fight the misinformation and disinformation that feeds this.

It begins with you, personally.

Think twice before posting that link. Verify. We could probably put together a list of decent sources.

Pick an issue close to your expertise that you can research well, and can speak strongly and authoritatively to. I chose Network Neutrality, for example.

Speak up, call out bullshit when you see it. Especially publicly, you are often not arguing for the sake of the other person, but those less certain who may be listening, watching, reading.

Your voice matters.

No raindrop blames itself for the flood.

You are not alone.



Thank you.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 04:36:04 PM »
I split off a factless tirade to this thread.

Since I made this thread, a young woman is now dead at the hands of a Nazi sympathizer.

Who people are trying to whitewash into being 'left-wing'.

Heather Heyer deserves a remembrance, so in honor of having someone come through and try to misdirect her murder on top of other things, I thought I would link to some memorials accordingly:

The New York Times:

Quote
Heather D. Heyer died standing up for what she believed in.

Friends described her as a passionate advocate for the disenfranchised who was often moved to tears by the world’s injustices. That sense of conviction led her to join demonstrators protesting a rally of white nationalists in Charlottesville, Va., on Saturday.

...

Fox News

Quote
...

Heyer’s cover photo on Facebook from Nov. 19, 2016, says, “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

Heyer was a paralegal with the Miller Law Group, according to the newspaper.

“For over four years Heather has played an essential role in our bankruptcy department and office as a whole,” the law group says online. It says that Heyer was from Ruckersville, Va., but living in Charlottesville.

...

Huffington Post - quoting her mother:

Quote
“She always had a very strong sense of right and wrong. She always, even as a child, was very caught up in what she believed to be fair,” Bro said. “Somehow I almost feel that this is what she was born to be, is a focal point for change. I’m proud that what she was doing was peaceful. She wasn’t there fighting with people.”



I hope that this will be the last time I need to make a post like this. Somehow, I know it won't be.

Offline Cythieus

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2017, 10:08:08 PM »
I live around one of those places and I'm shocked that I didn't hear about it or any of these other things.

Offline Missy

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2017, 11:39:24 PM »
wel if Faux isn't whitewashing someone else woudl be in the business to do so I suppose.

Offline Arvus23

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2018, 12:00:18 AM »
Before anything else, I'd like to point out something about what happened at Charlottesville.

James Fields, the driver that crashed into the crowd at Cville, did so to escape a ANTIFA member with a gun. Whom even admits to chasing Mr. Fields.
(I can't post external links so bye bye to source.)



Next with the very topic of the conversation as it in and of itself can be determined by rather loose means.

"Right-wings extremists" are rather hard to determine as the very lack of a political compass actually exists and the one which does is based upon biases which can change or differ upon the very context of the question being asked.

For some reason, Fascism is equated with the right, however when I ask people why it's established to be far right, they lack a proper answer.

So my first question is. By the definition of right and left wing, what does OP define the terms as? As even the founder of fascism was once part of a socialist newspaper during the first world war. For those lacking the knowledge, the first fascist to actively gain power was Benito Mussolini.

Fascism came about as a refined version of socialism and communism. Fascism was designed to be the best parts of both systems, however as most know. Communism has never worked and has always degraded into socialism. The closet any country has ever gotten to communism was Revolutionary Spain, but even that had socialist systems and fell eight months after the founding.

To translate this into modern times. The "Alt-right" isn't right at all, rather another leftist group, trying to find favor in the most ignorant of the right.



Offline Skynet

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2018, 03:36:53 AM »
Before anything else, I'd like to point out something about what happened at Charlottesville.

James Fields, the driver that crashed into the crowd at Cville, did so to escape a ANTIFA member with a gun. Whom even admits to chasing Mr. Fields.
(I can't post external links so bye bye to source.)



Next with the very topic of the conversation as it in and of itself can be determined by rather loose means.

"Right-wings extremists" are rather hard to determine as the very lack of a political compass actually exists and the one which does is based upon biases which can change or differ upon the very context of the question being asked.

For some reason, Fascism is equated with the right, however when I ask people why it's established to be far right, they lack a proper answer.

So my first question is. By the definition of right and left wing, what does OP define the terms as? As even the founder of fascism was once part of a socialist newspaper during the first world war. For those lacking the knowledge, the first fascist to actively gain power was Benito Mussolini.

Fascism came about as a refined version of socialism and communism. Fascism was designed to be the best parts of both systems, however as most know. Communism has never worked and has always degraded into socialism. The closet any country has ever gotten to communism was Revolutionary Spain, but even that had socialist systems and fell eight months after the founding.

To translate this into modern times. The "Alt-right" isn't right at all, rather another leftist group, trying to find favor in the most ignorant of the right.

Actually, I can answer this.

Fascism is far-right because it, as an ideology, is opposed to egalitarianism and defines itself primarily via nationalism. Right-wing in both the US and Europe is associated with conservatism, skepticism towards change, promoting the nation/ethnicity/etc over a more "global" world, and is opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism which during the Great Depression were the other majority ideologies.

The far-left, by consequence, predominantly seeks the transition of society into a more egalitarian form. Feminism has its roots in leftist thought for wanting to combat traditional patriarchal social norms. Anarchism combats hierarchical governments and business structures. Marxism combats capitalism.

Also, Benito Mussolini in the Doctrine of Fascism defined himself and his ideology as right-wing.

Quote
A party governing a nation “totalitarianly" is a new departure in history. There are no points of reference nor of comparison. From beneath the ruins of liberal, socialist, and democratic doctrines, Fascism extracts those elements which are still vital. It preserves what may be described as "the acquired facts" of history; it rejects all else. That is to say, it rejects the idea of a doctrine suited to all times and to all people. Granted that the XIXth century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the XXth century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the " right ", a Fascist century. If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State. It is quite logical for a new doctrine to make use of the still vital elements of other doctrines. No doctrine was ever born quite new and bright and unheard of. No doctrine can boast absolute originality. It is always connected, it only historically, with those which preceded it and those which will follow it. Thus the scientific socialism of Marx links up to the utopian socialism of the Fouriers, the Owens, the Saint-Simons ; thus the liberalism of the XIXth century traces its origin back to the illuministic movement of the XVIIIth, and the doctrines of democracy to those of the Encyclopaedists. All doctrines aim at directing the activities of men towards a given objective; but these activities in their turn react on the doctrine, modifying and adjusting it to new needs, or outstripping it. A doctrine must therefore be a vital act and not a verbal display. Hence the pragmatic strain in Fascism, it’s will to power, its will to live, its attitude toward violence, and its value.

Interestingly, Mussolini was anti-socialist and had little respect for Marx's work.

I can imagine that people are going to bring up "National Socialism," but it should be noted that 1.) the Nazi Party busted up trade unions and 2.) killed the Strasserites upon suspicion that they were too Soviet-friendly during the Night of Long Knives. The Nazis used a mixed market economy, and their primary critiques of socialism and capitalism were that they were "both invented by Jews."

This Snopes article does a pretty good job explaining the "Are Nazis Socialist?" thing.

In short, Hitler was being a politician. The economic depression was causing many people to gravitate towards alternative ideologies than traditional capitalism and liberal democracies at the time. Communist parties were gaining ground and in 1920s Germany were tying or even exceeding the Nazi Party in polls. Hitler viewed them as a threat but also sought to trick and win over German citizens who'd be otherwise sympathetic towards socialism. During the Weimar Republic they had the largest Communist Party outside of the Soviet Union.

In the 1933 general federal election of Germany, the German Communist Party had nearly 5 million votes. Social Democratic Party had around 7 million, while the Nazi Party had 17 million.


So in conclusion we have that even by their own definitions and tactics, fascists were right-wing and anti-Communist as well as being anti-socialist, even if Nazis deceptively referred to themselves as such.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 08:20:47 AM »
James Fields, the driver that crashed into the crowd at Cville, did so to escape a ANTIFA member with a gun. Whom even admits to chasing Mr. Fields.
(I can't post external links so bye bye to source.)

So says Jason Kessler, the organizer of the Charlottesville nationalist rally.

In unrelated news, Jason Kessler was indicted on perjury charges after falsely claiming to have been acting in self-defense in response to an assault he committed against a man in a Charlottesville Mall.

Offline Saria

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Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2018, 08:09:55 PM »
So in conclusion we have that even by their own definitions and tactics, fascists were right-wing and anti-Communist as well as being anti-socialist, even if Nazis deceptively referred to themselves as such.
A nicely meme-able way of putting it that I've heard is this:

If you're silly enough to believe that just because the Nazis used the word "socialist" in their name that means they were socialists, then you must also believe that Algeria, Ethiopia, East Congo, the former East Germany, and North Korea are all democratic republics.

Online Oniya

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2018, 09:26:04 PM »
A nicely meme-able way of putting it that I've heard is this:

If you're silly enough to believe that just because the Nazis used the word "socialist" in their name that means they were socialists, then you must also believe that Algeria, Ethiopia, East Congo, the former East Germany, and North Korea are all democratic republics.

Fun fact - the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire.  It was an agglomeration of mostly Germanic countries, and the last ruler to be crowned by the Pope was Charles V.  (Even before that, Fredrick I supported a number of 'antipopes'.)

Online Sara Nilsson

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2018, 11:04:45 AM »
Fun fact - the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire.  It was an agglomeration of mostly Germanic countries, and the last ruler to be crowned by the Pope was Charles V.  (Even before that, Fredrick I supported a number of 'antipopes'.)

Voltaire :)

Offline Mera1506

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 12:52:50 PM »
I can't claim to know the specifics of the number, however the divicive identity politics that's being played not only by the politicians, but also the MSM ad Hollywood is dividing people into factions. The very notion of cultural appropriation is to stay in your own lane. Divide and conquer because as long as the different groups are too busy fighting each other, they're not paying attention to corrupt politicians and high up business executives that run off with your hard earned money to the bank, either through taxation fraud for politicians and avoiding paying taxes in the case of the corrupt executives. There's a reason for this meme:

Online Lustful Bride

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 01:02:39 PM »
I can't claim to know the specifics of the number, however the divicive identity politics that's being played not only by the politicians, but also the MSM ad Hollywood is dividing people into factions. The very notion of cultural appropriation is to stay in your own lane. Divide and conquer because as long as the different groups are too busy fighting each other, they're not paying attention to corrupt politicians and high up business executives that run off with your hard earned money to the bank, either through taxation fraud for politicians and avoiding paying taxes in the case of the corrupt executives. There's a reason for this meme:

I'm going to save that image because its not a bad meme :)

And there is some level of truth. Its why politicians demonize one another so hard, only pushing people to further extremes, because its always easier to control others when its an 'us vs them' scenario.

Offline Skynet

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2018, 12:01:46 AM »
Minor quibble, but the "Black Power" slogan was not made to be a phrase for hate in its inception and whose definition varies depending on the political group espousing it. It was actually coined by Stokely Carmichael of the Black Panthers, neither of whom were racial supremacists.* It actually predated the "White Power" slogan during segregation days as a sort of rallying cry to show that the African-American community is not helpless in the face of oppression. But then George Lincoln Rockwell of the American Nazi Party went "if negroes can say Black Power, I say we should say White Power!"

This is not new; for all their talk of etchnic separatism, white supremacists love to steal ideas from other races and turn them into something awful. Like swastikas, the skinhead hairstyle, and tiki torches.

*Ideologically the Black Panthers were communists and were at odds with the Nation of Islam for being black supremacists. They characterized social conflict as a class-based issue, but viewed African-AMericans and other minorities as being one of several oppressed proletariat groups.

I'd also like to point that the "New Black Panther Party" you see calling for white genocide on Fox News are nutters, not affiliated with the original Black Panther Party and in fact stole their name, and one of the original BPP leaders Bobby Seale denounced them as black racists.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 01:41:58 PM »
There's a reason for this meme...

Yeah. People who insist on drawing a false equivalence between a group that calls for extermination of other ethnic groups & one that calls for bully boys in a position of authority to stop murdering them.

Online Sara Nilsson

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 02:37:43 PM »
Yeah. People who insist on drawing a false equivalence between a group that calls for extermination of other ethnic groups & one that calls for bully boys in a position of authority to stop murdering them.

^^ This. Saying white power and black power are even on the same footing is disgusting. Yes a tiny minority of those chanting black power want to use violent means, the vast majority of those chanting white power do. Equating, we want to not get shot by the cops for existing to people that scream nazi slogans.. the mental leap is quite wide.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2018, 02:47:03 PM »
Yeah. People who insist on drawing a false equivalence between a group that calls for extermination of other ethnic groups & one that calls for bully boys in a position of authority to stop murdering them.

^^ This. Saying white power and black power are even on the same footing is disgusting. Yes a tiny minority of those chanting black power want to use violent means, the vast majority of those chanting white power do. Equating, we want to not get shot by the cops for existing to people that scream nazi slogans.. the mental leap is quite wide.

I don't think that's what the person was implying, it wasn't what I was implying with my response. But I'm just gonna back out before I dig myself into a hole and misrepresent my own argument and make myself look bad.

Online Oniya

Re: On the rising plague of right-wing violence.
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2018, 04:00:20 PM »


Relevant.