Trump

[gaggedLouise]

So, he wants Space Marines.  Can we put him in a stasis-equipped life support system?  Unresponsive and immobile sounds about right...

So much for America going it alone with outer space journeys...

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russia_to_deliver_US_new_rocket_engines_999.html

The US government is slated to receive one of two batches of Russian-made rocket engines in the second quarter of 2018, according to a leading Russian rocket designer, at nearly the same point when the newly created US Space Force is being established as a new branch of the US armed forces.

The engines are used for delivering heavy payloads to space aboard the Atlas V launch vehicle - which will now presumptively fall under US Space Force, a sixth branch of the US armed forces announced by US President Donald Trump on Monday. "We have the Air Force and we're going to have the Space Force. Separate but equal." The US military's space command was formerly designated under the US Air Force's area of responsibility.

(---)

The US space program relies on the RD-180 engine to power the first stage of the Atlas V rocket, the only American vehicle now capable of sending heavy payloads into space.

Also, everyone knows the US and the EU have relied for years on Russian rockets to get astronauts up to the ISS.

[Luzette]

Why is this whole forum so violently anti-Trump?  You all sound simplistic and narrow minded to me.  Now I was a Bernie Sanders potential voter and am a registered Democrat but I never thought that Hillary was a liberal and if people wanted to vote for a woman per se there was Carly Fiorina.  I even had her campaign song in my head: ‘Gary Indiana’.  ~giggle ~giggle

I find that Mr. Trump is an excellent, hard-working CEO and a better president than W. Bush who started a never ending, senseless war in the Middle East or Obama who kept a Nobel Peace prize while expanding military operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran (where I lived once), Libya, Syria and others.

Trump on the other hand has acknowledged Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and opened serious negotiations with the DPRK with a potential for the reunification of Korea.  He’s also opened a dialogue on prison reform whose current system he suggests adversely impacts African-Americans.  As a former Equal Opportunity Officer in the U.S. Air Force, I agree.

So was he my first choice for president, no? He was probably my 6th but as an American, I stand behind his sincere attempts at making the country better.  Disagreeing with policy issues on their merits are one thing, creating a Greek Chorus of character damnation is quite another and unseemly in my view. :)

[Quick Ben]

Why is this whole forum so violently anti-Trump?  You all sound simplistic and narrow minded to me.  Now I was a Bernie Sanders potential voter and am a registered Democrat but I never thought that Hillary was a liberal and if people wanted to vote for a woman per se there was Carly Fiorina.  I even had her campaign song in my head: ‘Gary Indiana’.  ~giggle ~giggle

I find that Mr. Trump is an excellent, hard-working CEO and a better president than W. Bush who started a never ending, senseless war in the Middle East or Obama who kept a Nobel Peace prize while expanding military operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran (where I lived once), Libya, Syria and others.

Trump on the other hand has acknowledged Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and opened serious negotiations with the DPRK with a potential for the reunification of Korea.  He’s also opened a dialogue on prison reform whose current system he suggests adversely impacts African-Americans.  As a former Equal Opportunity Officer in the U.S. Air Force, I agree.

So was he my first choice for president, no? He was probably my 6th but as an American, I stand behind his sincere attempts at making the country better.  Disagreeing with policy issues on their merits are one thing, creating a Greek Chorus of character damnation is quite another and unseemly in my view. :)

God bless.

[RedEve]

It's a bit rich condemning people for ad hominem attacks on Trump when you consider the almost daily state of his Twitter feed.

[MiraMirror]

It's a bit rich condemning people for ad hominem attacks on Trump when you consider the almost daily state of his Twitter feed.

A thousand times this.  The guy attacks people constantly on his Twitter feed, lies his butt off, and throws blame around at everyone but himself.  I might not be rooting for something awful to happen to him, but I sure as hell don't support what he's doing or how he's doing it.  And I'll thank you not to call me "simplistic and narrow-minded" just because I think differently from you.  I don't like the guy for my own reasons.  Disagreeing with you doesn't make me simplistic.

[Luzette]

If you find his Twitter feeds bad how does that make your name calling of him good?  Notice that your response to my thought out post was just an ad hominem on me since it did refer to a topic. 

I occasionally read his twitters but I only rely on the daily White House briefs that I get emailed to me for the official administration position on something.  I can get rebuttals on any of the networks, late night talk shows or this board apparently at any time.

To the last poster, disagreeing with you doesn't make your simplistic, calling him names may.  I'd love to discuss particulars but I'm not going to respond with venom. I'm hardly a Trump supporter but I'm certainly not a Trump hater either.  Sorry.  <3

[Lustful Bride]

I personally like punching both the left and the right.   Its just that trump and the GOP have given me far more reason to insult and dislike them as of late. Considering they pretty much have a majority of the power right now, they deserve the balme for being in charge.

[Lustful Bride]

---Sent message too early.

Its as they say. The chain of command/blame goes up.  I know I have ruffled feathers here on E when I throw mud at the left on occasion but I'm not afraid to throw it to the right and ruffle feathers over there as well.

Trump and his administration have alienated long time US allies, weakened our position politically across the world at an important time when Russia and China are both really trying to muscle in and build up their own empires. It feels like he relies more on Yes Men than on real advisors, he takes things on luck and knee jerk reactions rather than planning, and has been exceedingly unprofessional for the entire world to point and mock the US.

[Iniquitous]

Why is this whole forum so violently anti-Trump?  You all sound simplistic and narrow minded to me.  Now I was a Bernie Sanders potential voter and am a registered Democrat but I never thought that Hillary was a liberal and if people wanted to vote for a woman per se there was Carly Fiorina.  I even had her campaign song in my head: ‘Gary Indiana’.  ~giggle ~giggle

I find that Mr. Trump is an excellent, hard-working CEO and a better president than W. Bush who started a never ending, senseless war in the Middle East or Obama who kept a Nobel Peace prize while expanding military operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran (where I lived once), Libya, Syria and others.

Trump on the other hand has acknowledged Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and opened serious negotiations with the DPRK with a potential for the reunification of Korea.  He’s also opened a dialogue on prison reform whose current system he suggests adversely impacts African-Americans.  As a former Equal Opportunity Officer in the U.S. Air Force, I agree.

So was he my first choice for president, no? He was probably my 6th but as an American, I stand behind his sincere attempts at making the country better.  Disagreeing with policy issues on their merits are one thing, creating a Greek Chorus of character damnation is quite another and unseemly in my view. :)

I would first suggest that you NOT insult members of this site. Pretty damn rude for a new member to just jump in and insult people because she can. Sounds a lot like Trump's behavior now that I think of it.

Why do I dislike Trump? He is an self admitted sexual abuser.  He lies so much that I personally think he is utterly incapable of telling the truth.  He is willing to hold CHILDREN hostage to get what he wants.  He has deliberately attacked those he dislikes, both before taking an office he is unfit to hold and after.  He is a racist - you can argue this if you want, however, his actions proclaim it.  He has absolutely NO concept of how to act like a dignified man.  He has ruined our standing with the world.  He is alienating our allies at a rate far faster than I thought he could.

Your statement that he "opened serious negotiations with the DPRK with a potential for the reunification of Korea". Bullshit.  The S. Korean president actually started talks with Kim Jong Un without Trump being present.  This whole meeting with Kim Jong Un was nothing more than an ego stroking for Trump.  There was NOTHING accomplished. Absolutely, positively NOTHING.  There was no timeline established for NK to give up their nuclear weapons testing, there was nothing signed.  And do you honestly believe that NK is going to keep what verbal promises made?  They have done this time and time again - and each time went back on their promises!

This cretin is a wolf in sheep's clothing.  He is out for himself and his family only.  He believes he is above the law and it pisses him off that he cannot get the investigations into his criminal activities to get elected halted.  He has a fetish for dictators and I firmly believe that given the chance, he would happily set himself up as a dictator here.

And lastly, I dislike the man for his stances on LGBTQ. I fear he will make things worse for the LGBTQ.

[Oniya]

1) International community - not all members here are American, and therefore don't even have a reason to pretend to like him.
2) LGBT-positive community - Trump has taken a number of backwards steps with regard to how transgendered individuals are treated.
3) Sex-positive community - Trump's treatment of women in particular is patently offensive to a large number of people here.
4) A debate section that values sources over rhetoric - When you can find well-researched sources that contradict most of the claims made by a person, it's really difficult to take them at face value.

The man has been steadily alienating our allies, and attempting to reverse decades of progress with regard to civil liberties since he got into office.  He has thrown the government into turmoil with his 'revolving door' of staff members, installed people with serious conflicts of interest into a number of key positions: Scott Pruitt of the EPA denies that human-based carbon emissions are a key component in climate change;  Betsy DeVos (Sec. Ed) has an obsession with charter schools;  Larry Kudlow (Director of NEC) believes in 'supply-side economics', which many leading economists have roundly criticized since the Reagan era;  Ajit Pai (Chairman FCC) has been a major factor in repealing net neutrality.

I firmly believe that this man is doing damage to our country that will take several subsequent presidents' combined and concerted efforts to undo.

[Quick Ben]

Luzette didn't call anyone simplistic or narrow-minded, she wrote/observed that the people in this thread sound like that (in her perspective). There's a major difference in context, or are we throwing context out the window for the sake of perceived moral superiority?

[Iniquitous]

So, you are saying it is okay for her to be offensive to members just because she says we SOUND simplistic in her opinion?

So, if I say you sound like an ass kissing idiot for your support of Trump in my opinion, it is okay?  Because it sure as hell isn't okay to me.  Just because she put "in my opinion" after her insult does not make it okay, right, or civil.

On a much different note: The new Time Magazine cover is on mark.

https://i0.bloomjoy.systems/uploads/2018/06/Screen-Shot-2018-06-21-at-10.19.30-AM.png

<snip - image changed to a link - no embedded images of anyone under the age of 18 please - Staff>

[Quick Ben]

Call me whatever you like, I believe in your free choice of speech to insult or dehumanize me however you like with your words. I'll likely respond, or not respond as I see fit. All I'm saying, specifically, is that the claim of her offense and insult is wildly exaggerated (and possibly contextually inaccurate because I can't claim to know Luzette's motives) for the extremely mild mannered aspect of Luzette's post. She appeared to look for some specifically detailed conversation point for point about Trump's policies without the invective and venomous words. Your following response appears, to me, to have validated her post entirely.

[Skynet]

Respect has to be earned before it's given. What has the President done to gain the respect of those whose rights he's trampled on? And when a person still supports our President in spite of all that he's done, it's inevitable that people will jump to certain conclusions.

[Roleplay Frog]

1) International community - not all members here are American, and therefore don't even have a reason to pretend to like him.

To me, he's entertainment. You certainly can't predict the things he does and you gotta give him that any more.. tame president wouldn't have managed to shake it up with a Kim Jong ever.  But..

I firmly believe that this man is doing damage to our country that will take several subsequent presidents' combined and concerted efforts to undo.

He's ruining an image that had just started to recover from Bush, the stupid war cowboy. Any politician daring to say HALF the crazy shit he spews out would be requested, insistantly, to leave office the next day, in many european countries. (but then again, the mere concept of someone gaining democratic majority but not being elected is already baffling)
Cold, hard fact.. also known as money:
Ever since trump basicaly head-butted the G7 meeting I've been checking the $ to Euro conversion as some of the stuff I do is paid in $ and I'm starting to believe the countries currency and image would have to suffer, eventually.

As for the argument of standing behind the president(or anyone) out of purely patriotic reasons, now I'm no historian, but I don't believe that's quite what america was founded upon, opinion wise.

[RedEve]

There are so many reasons why Donald J. Trump is a rubbish president that you really only need to see whatever the new clusterfuck of the day is.

In this case, the man apparently thinks this is an appropriate way to threat the leader of Germany at an international summit.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-angela-merkel-starburst-g7-summit-relationship-us-germany-tariffs-eu-a8409201.html

It's behavior that would be pathetic for a high schooler, let alone the leader of the free world.

[Oniya]

As for the argument of standing behind the president(or anyone) out of purely patriotic reasons, now I'm no historian, but I don't believe that's quite what america was founded upon, opinion wise.

Indeed - one of the things we've got going for us is the ability to publicly disagree with our government.

[Twisted Crow]

I personally like punching both the left and the right.   Its just that trump and the GOP have given me far more reason to insult and dislike them as of late. Considering they pretty much have a majority of the power right now, they deserve the balme for being in charge.

This is somewhat my stance... mostly that I am no friend of either, and enjoy slapping around both sides of the partisan line-ups, if need be.

I would agree that the Republicans have too much influence, at the moment. Of course, I cannot say I am eager to trust someone like Schumer, either. 

[Vekseid]

Why is this whole forum so violently anti-Trump?

I mean, you could read what we've written about his actions. People don't support Trump here because they either read the facts and judge him according to the facts, or they avoid the thread because they don't want to be exposed to the facts it contains.

The man is objectively in violation of the emoluments clause of the United States Constitution. He is the most openly, brazenly corrupt president the United States has ever had.

The man objectively tried to rescue ZTE - boasting about the need to save Chinese jobs in the tweet of his that I linked.

The man objectively is reversing the global brain drain towards the United States. Decades from now we are going to be reading about entrepreneurs who, either because of Trump's direct action (e.g. with Iran - who we historically have drawn an immense amount of skill from), or because they were turned off by his policies.

The man is objectively trying to start a trade war with the rest of the world.

The man objectively appointed Ajit Pai to the FCC, resulting in our current Network Neutrality fiasco. The hilarious thing is it's right-wing media outlets who are going to be paying for this. Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot with pride over this one.

The man objectively appointed Scott Pruit to the EPA.

The man objectively appointed Betsy DeVos to head Education. The future of our world in in the hands of those who can develop the best algorithms, and this woman is in charge of America's public schools.

The man's own firstborn son is one of a dozen close associates known to have collaborated with Russia in the leadup to the election. Donald Junior wasn't accused, the kid straight up dumped his e-mails himself to get ahead of the scoop.

The man has objectively been placing troops in combat all over the world, he barely waited a week before getting an 8-year old girl and a Navy SEAL killed. Meanwhile you blame Obama for escalations that Trump is doubling down on.

The man has objectively defrauded thousands of people as a 'CEO'. He even scammed a bunch of little girls out of their money.

He is objectively a terrible CEO, with frequent bankruptcies. Nearly every single business venture of his was a miserable failure. The only thing he could sell was his name and now he's trying to rebrand as Scion because he's managed to fuck up even that.

The man is objectively being subsidized by foreign entities, by his own son's admission.

The man is objectively the laziest president the United States has ever had.

The man is objectively a disaster for US intelligence, with his staff breaking protocol for classified material even during transition. And now Ajit Pai is perfectly fine with fake cell towers around the White House.

The man objectively sexually harassed underaged girls, by his own admission. By his own admission, he has committed sexual assault. By his own admission, he was involved closely with Jeffrey Epstein and his parties. By his own admission, he acknowledged Jeffrey Epstein's tastes.

I can go on. I can go on about each of these points. I can provide more points. And you respond with derision and 'Oh I'm not -really- attacking you':

You all sound simplistic and narrow minded to me.

Maybe you will read something of what I mentioned above, and start to question whatever poisonous well you draw your information from.

If you care for your country, being informed is the best thing you can do.

If you care for your country.

Someone, somewhere, is feeding you rank bullshit, and you are eating it up and regurgitating it.

Then acting with surprise that most of your own country doesn't believe what you say.

Because we know it to be false.

If you care for your country, you will take a step back and analyze what a disaster Trump is for America's future, and judge him accordingly.

[Skynet]

Call me whatever you like, I believe in your free choice of speech to insult or dehumanize me however you like with your words. I'll likely respond, or not respond as I see fit. All I'm saying, specifically, is that the claim of her offense and insult is wildly exaggerated (and possibly contextually inaccurate because I can't claim to know Luzette's motives) for the extremely mild mannered aspect of Luzette's post. She appeared to look for some specifically detailed conversation point for point about Trump's policies without the invective and venomous words. Your following response appears, to me, to have validated her post entirely.

I just got home from work, so I can answer a list of legitimate criticisms against Trump, from his personality to his policies:

1.) Full context of the infamous "Grab Em By the Pussy" video. 1:11 he talks about how he doesn't wait to make advances on women.

2.) Trump claiming that both sides in the Charlottesville Rally had some very fine people.

A VICE documentary meets with several of the rally's organizers, who are invariably dyed-in-the-wool white supremacists. The people who attended the Unite the Right rally had no trouble associating with white supremacists.

Wikipedia article on Jason Kessler.

3.) Back in 2015 he claimed that the majority of Mexicans crossing the border were drug dealers, rapists, etc, and that only "some, I assume were good people."

2 days ago he claimed that he was 100% right on this.

4.) Trump vows to protect LGBTQ citizens after the Pulse Nightclub shooting.

When in office his health agency rolled back LGBT protections.

He also reversed the policy which allowed transgender students to use bathrooms which line up with their gender identity.

5.) Trump retweeted a twitter accounted named WhiteGenocideTM, a phrase popular by neo-nazis and white supremacists who believe that public acceptance of inter-racial marriage is part of a plot to dilute "white genes."

He also retweeted Fake News from an anti-Muslim hate group in the UK.

He also retweeted a bogus statistic claiming that 81% of white homicide victims are killed by black people. Said fake statistic is used also by white supremacist groups alleging that there's a hidden race war in the West against white people that the media's covering up.

I could go on, if either of you want more sources.

[Skynet]

You know what, I'm on a roll, and this roll's in some dire need of moar sauce.

6.) Trump signed a FOSTA/SESTA bill which claims to help stop sexual slavery and forced prostitution, but in reality has the opposite effect. Willing sex workers who used the internet to screen for clients and share data between each other for safety now found themselves cut off, and if anything made sex workers across the board less safe.

It also made it harder for advocates and rights groups from finding and saving actual trafficked people.

7.) Steve Bannon, a former White House Chief of Staff, is a closet neo-nazi or at the very least a fellow traveler. He's a huge fan of the 1973 book Camp of the Saints, which posits a mass invasion of the white Western world by hordes of literal hive-minded people of color who are simultaneously too stupid to live (Indians willingly drown themselves in the Ganges to make a corpse-bridge for others to cross and listen to the words of a shit-eating prophet) but also a major threat capable of utilizing military technology and aircraft to take over countries.

A PDF of the book (warning, is hosted on a hate site).

Bannon also had leaked e-mail chats with Milo Yiannopoulos about smuggling white nationalist ideas into mainstream conservatism.

Even though Bannon was let go by the Trump administration, it was not for these reasons.

8.) In spite of promising to drain the swamp, his cabinet stinks to high heaven of corruption.

9.) The Trump administration's Medicaid work requirements are overall bad for disabled workers.

President Trump's executive order rolls back civil-service protection for federal employees.

*fixed broken links - Mith

[Twisted Crow]

8.) In spite of promising to drain the swamp, his cabinet stinks to high heaven of corruption.

This makes me think of a conversation with some friends not long ago. More on this perception of "streamlining = less government". I am a fan of less government, but I wouldn't trust this administration to do that with what I have seen so far in legislation. The abortion thing a while back was really all it took for me to doubt this. And "stream-lining" procedures can help, but I made it a point that it doesn't necessarily mean "less government meddling".

[MiraMirror]

If you find his Twitter feeds bad how does that make your name calling of him good?  Notice that your response to my thought out post was just an ad hominem on me since it did refer to a topic. 

I occasionally read his twitters but I only rely on the daily White House briefs that I get emailed to me for the official administration position on something.  I can get rebuttals on any of the networks, late night talk shows or this board apparently at any time.

To the last poster, disagreeing with you doesn't make your simplistic, calling him names may.  I'd love to discuss particulars but I'm not going to respond with venom. I'm hardly a Trump supporter but I'm certainly not a Trump hater either.  Sorry.  <3

I don't particularly think my post was venomous, but fine.  I don't like him because:

* He's sexually assaulted women,  verbally admitted this, and has still gotten away with it.

* Pretty royally screwed over LGBT individuals, especially transgender individuals, all under the guise of "deeply held religious beliefs".  Coming from one of those states where they initially tried to use that wording to screw over LGBT people, it's become known as a veiled phrase to use religion to take away the rights of others.  And just to pre-emptively say this, no, they aren't special rights.  They're the same rights as other people already get.

* I'm not about to vote for a guy supported by another guy who funneled money from his state into bloody conversion therapy.  I'm not even about to go into how disgusting that "therapy" is.  Would you vote for a guy who agrees with another who basically says that your group of whatever are sinners and should disappear or be converted because it's wrong to exist in that fashion?

* I have watched this man systematically shift blame to other members of his own cabinet and cut ties with them the moment something goes wrong with them.  Going from calling people "fine individuals" to pretending he didn't like them from the start because they got caught doing something awful.  He consistently says they did nothing wrong, but once they get caught, oh, he never liked them anyway.  Manafort swore he did nothing wrong, but he's awaiting trial in prison now, I believe?  Yeeeeeeeah.

* He acts like a con-man, always lying like a snake in the grass.  He says one thing, then does another.  You can say it's because he's a business man, but to me, it looks more like a compulsive liar, who lies because he can lie.  As stupid as this might sound, I'd rather see someone at least be upfront about the harmful things they're going to do than a snake oil salesman.  Be upfront with your goals, or something like that.

*  He has systematically gutted programs that help out people in need of assistance, all while pocketing more money for himself and his buddies, the rich folk who don't need any more money than they have already.  It's sure not going to the employees of the business, I'll tell you that much.  This is like...the definition of greed, or maybe even gluttony at this point.

* This ICE business.  You can say they're doing their job, but not all those people who came here came illegally, and it sounds pretty obnoxious to say otherwise.  Legal citizens getting deported, and many of his supporters calling them less than human, or blaming it on Obama's policies?  Asylum also isn't illegal.

* Children in cages.  Seriously?  This needs to be addressed?  How is this acceptable in any way?  They're *kids*.  In cages.  Being treated like shit.  Oh, and potentially drugged, but I'm not sure how valid that is, so I'm not including that as a certain.

* Also, how the hell do you just "lose" that many kids?  It's sketchy.

* Removes us from the Human Rights Council just after he gets criticized FOR his kid-caging, or enabling it at the very least.  I'm not saying the council is perfect.  It has its issues.  But seriously, how awful does that look for the country as a whole when he throws a tantrum and leaves the metaphorical playground when he gets called on being inhumane?

There's more, but those are some of the big ones.  The guy throws tirades when he doesn't get his way, switches loyalty quicker than anyone I've seen, and stereotypes and generalizes like mad.  This isn't normal, or standard.  What are we winning with him in charge, again?

[ReijiTabibito]

This makes me think of a conversation with some friends not long ago. More on this perception of "streamlining = less government". I am a fan of less government, but I wouldn't trust this administration to do that with what I have seen so far in legislation. The abortion thing a while back was really all it took for me to doubt this. And "stream-lining" procedures can help, but I made it a point that it doesn't necessarily mean "less government meddling".

One would point out, Godwin-style, that what they employed in the death camps was much more streamlined than simply executing by firing squad.  Streamlining is only good if the process you are attempting to enhance in and of itself is good.  Since we've been up in arms about immigration these past few days, I'll use an example from there:

We want people to be able to come into our country if they desire to become part of America.  A process that takes 10 years is bad.  A process that takes 1 year is...maybe not good, but at least BETTER.

[Iniquitous]

Not the male Trump this time...

Melania visited the children detained imprisoned in Texas today and wore a jacket that says "I Really Don't Care Do U?" on the back of it.

At least one Trump is being honest.