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Author Topic: Trump  (Read 100024 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

Trump
« on: February 01, 2017, 02:59:22 AM »
I apologize, but I am rather tired of abetting a cult of personality.

I thought about putting up a string of epithets, however I feel that by the time this man goes, his name will become one anyway. My anger is spent. This is just a problem that needs to be resolved.

Of particular note, of course, is that FCC Chairman Ajit Pai and potential Attorney General Jeff Sessions are both potential threats to Elliquiy's continued ability to function. I will speak more to that when it becomes relevant, and more publicly.



Making a full list of the past week's events would be exhausting, so I will relate five news items you may have missed or been given inappropriate information on:

* Reports of gag orders preventing Federal agencies even talking to Congress

* Revoking Obama's ethics rules for lobbyists while enacting the five-year leave ban.

* Steve Bannon replacing the Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on the National Security Council, effectively isolating Trump from intelligence and military agencies. Cue 'Bannon is the real president' jokes - they are appropriate.

* Republicans move to sell of 3.3 million acres of public land, currently used for public hunting/fishing/camping.

* A Trump supporter murdered six Muslims and injured several others at a mosque in Quebec. After which the Trump Administration used the attack to justify their policies.



Meanwhile, phone calls to representatives and protests have managed to:

- Stall House Republicans from gutting their ethics oversight.

- Remove or lessen some of the above-mentioned gag orders.

- Stall the planned scrubbing of climate change information from the EPA website

- Stop an executive order rescinding Obama's protection of LGBTQ employees

- Reverse the ban on green card holders over Miller and Bannon's objections.

Protesting works.

Organizing will work better.

I implore everyone who is worried to get involved locally. You can make a difference.

This is going to be exhausting. On every level.

You are not alone. Take a step back when you need to.



I also implore people to endeavor to be understanding.

If this was just about Trump, he would not have even dented the primary.

This is, in part, about a perception people have of the world - not entirely inaccurate - that will need to be resolved.

It is imperative that we are receptive to concerns about illegal immigration. We need reform not only for the process but also for enforcement.

It is imperative that we are receptive to concerns about Islam. No ideology deserves freedom from criticism.

Every death is a tragedy. Trying to argue against them with statistics just comes off as inhumane. We empathize with people. Stories. Not numbers.

Not everyone can be easily reasoned with. You need to choose your battles, and keep your strength.

May you change one mind in the next two years.

Thank you.



Those of you looking to support a worthy cause, please look into these groups:

* The Sierra Club

* Planned Parenthood

* The American Civil Liberties Union

* The Electronic Frontier Foundation

Offline Trevino

Re: Trump
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2017, 09:38:09 AM »
It is probably also worth mentioning here that they have done studies on the efficacy of political activism, even against otherwise brutal dictatorships: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/01/worried-american-democracy-study-activist-techniques

All it takes is organizing as little as 3.5% of the population, and there is certainly a much, much larger chunk of the population out there who oppose Trump and his proto-fascist regime, if his opinion polls are anything to go by. So, all hands on deck everyone...

Online Oniya

Re: Trump
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 10:49:06 AM »
As many people know, I'm the sort that watches physics lectures for fun - exactly the sort of interest in science and education that T-Rump thumbs his nose at.  I was slightly surprised at the direction that this took when it showed up on my feed (I was expecting something about anti-intellectualism), but given his age and background, Dr. Susskind has good reason to know what he's talking about here:


Offline Luna

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 10:49:58 AM »
To those from outside the U.S. who might insist we brought this on ourselves or that Trump is somehow indicative of the country's identity as a whole-

Trump's election is not something the American people brought on themselves.

For one thing, there was outside interference in the form of Russian hacking that laid bare conversations that should have remained private, and did remain such for every previous election.

Secondly, the majority of the country didn't even vote for him, he only squeaked by thanks to an archaic voting system that was, ironically, designed to prevent the possibility of a demagogue being able to rile up the population and get them to vote for him despite his disqualifications.

And I will argue until my dying breath that it is irresponsible and shortsighted to view the entire population of any country as some amorphous mass that thinks and acts the same way. One simply needs to open their eyes and watch what is going on inside the U.S.- daily protests, massive efforts to organize the opposition, a media that Trump himself regales against as dishonest, because they continue to shine a light on his despicable behavior, approval numbers that continue to plummet.

WE ARE NOT TRUMP.

#notmypresident

Offline Blythe

Re: Trump
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2017, 11:01:19 AM »
Thanks for this post, Veks. I think this says a lot of things that need to be said.

And I also look forward to, when it's more relevant and you're more ready, to what you have to say about Ajit Pai and Jeff Sessions & the specific ways they might affect Elliquiy. While I do intend to look into these two & research for myself (mostly the former; I'm somewhat familiar with Sessions), I often pick up extra information from E's PROC, and I generally find your posts really informative.

Online gaggedLouise

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2017, 05:22:15 PM »
Trump won't be around as president in four years time, predicted former Swedish PM Göran Persson at a press event in Stockholm tonight. The reason: he's too extreme for most of the Congress republicans and if they don't want to be damaged by him by the 2018 and 2020 elections, many of them are going to think seriously about how to replace him with somebody else, first off Pence. Also, Trump doesn't have any real routine about how to maneuver the political machinery when it's about actual ruling lawmaking and keeping to a strategy (a more experienced politican would have had the wits to wait with these anti-muslim ExOrders till he had his new Sec of Justice in place).

I hope that turns out to be accurate.  ;) And it's quite likely that Trump will run into several scandals already in his first year...
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 05:33:41 PM by gaggedLouise »

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 05:49:25 PM »
House rep  Adriano Espaillat (D-N.Y.)  suggests, cheekily, to build a wall around Donald Trump.

“We should be building a wall around Trump to stop these irrational executive orders instead of this ludicrous $25 billion wall between /us and/ our closest ally,” Espaillat said on the House floor.

Approved :)

Offline Verasaille

Re: Trump
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 06:01:59 PM »
Oh, I really like this. Funny as it seems, and it was done as a joke.

https://thinkpol.ca/2016/11/12/canadians-invite-california-oregon-and-washington-to-join-canada/

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Trump
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 06:20:00 PM »
Here is my problem with O'Bannon on the National Security Council..

1. He's a man who has no perception of the issues beyond Him.
2. Replacing a man whose 'intelligence and military' experience (as  Surface Warfare Officer' in the 70/80s, one ship.. one tour at the pentagon.. ) is scary. You know what most non-captain/flag officers do in a single tour? It's called Gofer..my CO in VP-30, on the other hand.. did a tour with the State Department as a 'subject Matter Expert (China, specifically their navy)
3. 'Only invited for relevant discussions'? When is the highest military officer and the leader of our spy agencies 'NOT relevant?' At the very least they can tap their agencies.

Offline Trevino

Re: Trump
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2017, 12:10:19 AM »
Here is my problem with O'Bannon on the National Security Council..

1. He's a man who has no perception of the issues beyond Him.
2. Replacing a man whose 'intelligence and military' experience (as  Surface Warfare Officer' in the 70/80s, one ship.. one tour at the pentagon.. ) is scary. You know what most non-captain/flag officers do in a single tour? It's called Gofer..my CO in VP-30, on the other hand.. did a tour with the State Department as a 'subject Matter Expert (China, specifically their navy)
3. 'Only invited for relevant discussions'? When is the highest military officer and the leader of our spy agencies 'NOT relevant?' At the very least they can tap their agencies.

It is a common for fascist (or proto-fascist) regimes to replace experienced people with complete incompetents, or otherwise people who are inexperienced. It serves two purposes; it prevents individual initiative and it keeps them unquestionably loyal to authority. An experience official would not otherwise flatter their egos.


For those concerned about their anonymity, I recommend Tor: https://www.torproject.org/

Online gaggedLouise

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 02:49:07 AM »
Trump the phone diplomat turns out to be exactly as hammy and short-fused as we had feared: speaking to the president of Mexico he made a half-veiled threat of military intervention:

Quote from: The Guardian
Trump was said to have made either an offer – or a veiled threat – of the US military weighing in to fight Mexican gangs in a conversation on Friday that Enrique Peña Nieto’s office later described as “constructive”.
According to reports that were apparently based on a leaked White House document, the US president told Peña Nieto: “You have a bunch of bad hombres down there. You aren’t doing enough to stop them. I think your military is scared. Our military isn’t, so I just might send them down to take care of it.”

Bejeesus.

Offline Verasaille

Re: Trump
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2017, 03:05:18 AM »
OMG, a war with Mexico?

 Oh wait, how about we just add Mexico as the 52nd state and make them all citizens subject to USA laws and put the bad ones in Mexican prisons?

Offline Lilias

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2017, 03:17:00 AM »
Oh wait, how about we just add Mexico as the 52nd state and make them all citizens subject to USA laws and put the bad ones in Mexican prisons?

Just give them Texas back. Everyone will be suitably distracted the better for it.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2017, 03:31:38 AM »
OMG, a war with Mexico?

 Oh wait, how about we just add Mexico as the 52nd state and make them all citizens subject to USA laws and put the bad ones in Mexican prisons?

It would become the biggest and most populous state in the union, overtaking Texas plus a double Cali in population.  ;)

Offline summoner2183

Re: Trump
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2017, 03:37:05 AM »
Why would the two men that is named here affect Elliquiy?

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: Trump
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2017, 03:44:29 AM »
The Mexican government has denied those reports, though it's not like Trump has been a master of diplomacy lately.

Why would the two men that is named here affect Elliquiy?

Ajit Pai wants to strike down Network Neutrality and anti-privacy provisions.

Jeff Sessions wants to prosecute pornography and 'obscenity'.

Again I will be making more public statements about these things when it is relevant.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2017, 03:47:45 AM »
Here is my problem with O'Bannon on the National Security Council..

...
3. 'Only invited for relevant discussions'? When is the highest military officer and the leader of our spy agencies 'NOT relevant?' At the very least they can tap their agencies.
The NSC deals with a lot more than military matters. The new arrangement is similar to what was in place during the Bush administration, and the Chairman of the JCS and Director of National Intelligence did't always (or regularly) attend NSC meetings during the Obama years. Politifact did an interesting summary of these matters and the history of the NSC.

Bannon, on the other hand, is a somewhat worrysome addition to the council, but as long as he has Trump's ear, him being in the White House is worrying, no matter his official position(s).

Offline Trevino

Re: Trump
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2017, 05:18:34 AM »
Bannon's post on the NSC is not only worrying, but is probably also illegal: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/02/steve_bannon_doesn_t_belong_on_the_nsc_that_s_what_the_law_says.html

Whether they will actually move to oust him is another question, but so far the Republicans are continuing to avoid resisting Trump in any serious way (or at all for that matter).
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 05:20:24 AM by Trevino »

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2017, 06:40:09 AM »
Bannon's post on the NSC is not only worrying, but is probably also illegal: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/02/steve_bannon_doesn_t_belong_on_the_nsc_that_s_what_the_law_says.html
I am not completely convinced that the distinction between "attendee" and "member" is as problematic as the guy quoted by Slate says it is. There are a number of sections in the statute that establishes the NSC that go beyond who the actual members are. In those sections (e.g. about subcommittees of the NSC), the President is given some broad authority to allow people to attend the NSC meetings. Given that, I find it not so far fetched that a court would rule that there is a clear distinction between attendents and members and that the President can decide who attends meetings in whatever way he desires. It may be a bit tricky to argue, but certainly not impossible.

But if there is a chance it may be illegal, the Trump administration is certainly going about it in a way that might actually work. They are churning out so many executive orders, they might actually overwhelm the opposition (political and civil) with this "shock and awe" tactic. They are opening so many fronts, concentrating any opposition against Trump may be difficult.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: Trump
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2017, 03:50:45 AM »
Well, it looks like an isolating move to me. Make sure one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Especially with reports of Bannon eliminating the paper trail in the White House.

Offline Trevino

Re: Trump
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2017, 09:03:19 AM »
Well, for what it's worth, we look set to have some very powerful allies from Silicon Valley join the Anti-Trump resistance: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/silicon-valley-against-trump-234579

So we shouldn't quite yet give up hope for internet sovereignty and freedom.

Offline Nachtmahr

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Re: Trump
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2017, 01:31:15 PM »
Well, it looks like an isolating move to me. Make sure one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Especially with reports of Bannon eliminating the paper trail in the White House.

I'd say the same thing, except that it's now beginning to look more like dangerous incompetence to me. At least it seems like him and his "Team" doesn't quite have the political know-how between them to pull their plans off in a smooth manner. I also think the amount of resistance might have come as a bit of a shock.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2017, 01:59:56 PM »
I'd say the same thing, except that it's now beginning to look more like dangerous incompetence to me. At least it seems like him and his "Team" doesn't quite have the political know-how between them to pull their plans off in a smooth manner. I also think the amount of resistance might have come as a bit of a shock.
The problem is that Bannon and his ilk don't play by the rules. Those folks want to change the whole game. "Smooth" doesn't figure into their playbook. Tearing up the old playbook is precisely what they are after. They are playing a whole different ballgame than anyone still playing by the old rules, and they figure that will allow them to dictate the rules of whatever comes next, after they have torn everything down. Trump himself may be incompetent as a politician, but some of his inner circle might see that more as a blessing than a burden.

Offline Nachtmahr

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Re: Trump
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 04:01:48 PM »
The problem is that Bannon and his ilk don't play by the rules. Those folks want to change the whole game. "Smooth" doesn't figure into their playbook. Tearing up the old playbook is precisely what they are after. They are playing a whole different ballgame than anyone still playing by the old rules, and they figure that will allow them to dictate the rules of whatever comes next, after they have torn everything down. Trump himself may be incompetent as a politician, but some of his inner circle might see that more as a blessing than a burden.

That being as it may, the approach of trying to fine-tune a piano with airstrikes isn't doing them any favors. Those who support the true extreme-right wing that Bannon represents are a minority, and the fierce resistance they're going to meet, and have met, is equally historical.

Don't get me wrong - I agree that there's something else going on here. That being said, it's one thing to underestimate them, and another to overestimate them. There are a fair few barriers between the current administration and ultimate power. With any luck, they will only have 2 years of complete freedom to do or suggest what they like, and hopefully less than that, once actual Republican figures start to realize that supporting all of this is going to destroy both them and their party.

I just think that maybe it's time for some faint optimism.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 04:29:54 PM »
That being as it may, the approach of trying to fine-tune a piano with airstrikes isn't doing them any favors.
And that's where I think most people underestimate Bannon &Co. They don't want to tune the piano. They want to tear the whole concert hall down till they can decide who bangs what rock with what stick. They actually want that piano torn to shreds. That way they can decide who rebuilds in what way after all the old instruments are blown away.

Those people want to wipe the slate clean. Their game is not what will do them any favors now. Their game is what will wip the slate clean so they can fill the vacuum they create.

And what if I am overestimating them? What if I don't? What if they really want to tear down the whole edifice and build something in their own image among the ruins? Planning for the best case scenario is not a good idea. Planning for a worse case scenario is. Better to overestimate them than underestimate them. At least that way you will be prepared for the worst that can happen.