American exceptionalism - an ousider's perspective on the rise of Trump

Started by Cassandra LeMay, January 31, 2017, 07:02:04 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cassandra LeMay

So, this is a bit of... not quite a rant, but perhaps I should call it an opinion piece, as what follows is just my personal opinion (and I don't have any solid statistics to back it up so it's certainly not scientific).

This is also the perspective of an outsider looking at America, so if you want to disregard my opinion you certainly have grounds for it and I won't blame you for writing this off as a bunch of baloney.

Bring a grain of salt. Anyways. ...


I think part of why America got Trump is American believe in America's exceptionalism.

Looking at America I see too much black and white, and not enough shades of gray, and I think that is because America does not believe in shades of gray.

Are you with us or with the enemy? Are you for free enterprise or big government? Do you were a white hat or a black hat? Do you want immigration or crime to rise?

And the world just is not that simple.

But America was founded on the belief that the world can be easily divided into black and white - or so we are told.

America is the cradle of modern democracy, the land of the free, the land where every shoeshine boy can become a zillionaire. It's the founding myth of America.

But it's a myth.

Social mobility never really worked that way. And sometimes bad things happen to good people. Sometimes good things happen to bad people. (Actually a lot of times, not just sometimes, but looking too closely is something people don't want to.) And sometimes America invaded countries, toppled democraticly-elected governments in the name of democracy.

America made mistakes. It actually made a lot of them.

But somehow the nation clung to its myth of exceptionalism. The shining beacon on the hill.

Only that that is a narrative that needs heroes and villains. And nowadays America has bought so much into that narrative that you are either with - or against. To acknowledge all the myriad shades of gray the world is made of might necessitate acknowledging that the American nation itself is not the best, the greatest, the most powerful. Once you have painted yourself as the hero you can't acknowledge flaw that might throw that narrative off.

You can not cling to that myth if you admit that the whole darn world is not black and white, but shades of gray. If you did, you would have to admit that America itself is not all heroic white.

So what's the alternative? You cling to the myth of exceptionalism. And the more you do, the more you have to think in terms of black and white. The real world becomes a Holywood reality of heroes and villains. Everyone in D.C. becomes a villain. The ousider becomes the hero. Cliches become reality because people don't want to face the fact that they live in a country that can make mistakes, a country that is made up of fallible people.

If the people the country is made up of are not black and white, not good and evil, but just people, the exceptional nature of the country itself would have to be called into question. Because what is a country if not the sum of its people?

...

So... where am I going with this? ... I don't know. I really don't know. I don't have all the answers. I am just some guy in front of a keyboard tyoing what comes to his mind as he thinks about America.

But what I believe is that America can be great - if people acknowledge that America is a place shared by lots of different people in lots of different places who just want to live a good life, want to raise their families in peace, want to get by. In that America is just like any other nation on Earth. It's not exceptional simply because of a certain flag, certain institutions, a certain history. If America wants to be exceptional, Americans should make it exceptional. But you don't do that by starting from a position where there is only black and white, good and evil, in the world.

So take a good look at the American nation. Think of America as the people who live in a certain geographic subdivision of the world. Those people are not the history of the US. They are not villains or heroes. They are just people. And thoise people are what makes a nation. Not everyone is a shining beacon on a hill, and not everyone is a villain.

America is not the hero of world history for ever and always. Stop thinking about it this way. Get a grain of salt. The more Americans look at their nation as exceptional, the more you need to divide the world into good and bad. Without villains, how can there be heroes? And by thinking of your own nation as the heroe of the piece you create the need for villains. And once you go there, you will villify those who are not "with you".
ONs, OFFs, and writing samples | Oath of the Drake

You can not value dreams according to the odds of their becoming true.
(Sonia Sotomayor)

Teo Torriatte

I posted this to your reply in my topic, and I'll leave it here as well-

There are many people in America itself, myself included, who don't go around saying how perfect we are. This is part of the overgeneralization that really frustrates me whenever I sit down to think about it. There is no such thing as a "national identity", because that assumes that everyone or most people in the country think a certain way and that's just not true.

American exceptionalism is just another political buzzphrase and doesn't mean anywhere near as much as you might think it does to the average citizen who is just trying to pay their bills and eek out an existence like everyone else in every other country in the world.

"And we know that precisely bcause America has always dealt in absolutes and superlatives."

This line in particular is a perfect example of what I was try to argue against. Who is "America" in that comment? Is it really ok to make such a blanket statement that casually suggests everyone or even most of the people in a country all believe the same thing or think the same way? I don't think it is, in fact I think that is ridiculous.

Mithlomwen

Quote
You can not cling to that myth if you admit that the whole darn world is not black and white, but shades of gray. If you did, you would have to admit that America itself is not all heroic white.

I'm not sure where you are getting that idea?  As an American, I don't think that the majority of Americans consider ourselves to be 'all heroic and white', nor not able to see things in shades of grey. 
Baby, it's all I know,
that your half of the flesh and blood that makes me whole...

Teo Torriatte

Quote from: Mithlomwen on January 31, 2017, 01:36:00 PM
I'm not sure where you are getting that idea?  As an American, I don't think that the majority of Americans consider ourselves to be 'all heroic and white', nor not able to see things in shades of grey.

Thank you.

Mithlomwen

I hope my question didn't come across as snarky Cassandra.  :/ 

I'm genuinely curious where...or rather why....you see America/Americans in such a way. 
Baby, it's all I know,
that your half of the flesh and blood that makes me whole...

Cassandra LeMay

Quote from: Mithlomwen on January 31, 2017, 01:49:44 PM
I hope my question didn't come across as snarky Cassandra.  :/ 

I'm genuinely curious where...or rather why....you see America/Americans in such a way.
It's okay. It's actually a pretty good question, albeit none I can give you a good solid answer to.

But while I ponder your question and dwell on what Luna said, here's a little quiz. And no, this isn't meant to be an actual quiz, but wording it like this helps me put my thoughts into words:

Is the President of the United States the most powerful person in the world? Yes or No?
Is America the strongest country in the world? Yes or No?
Is America the most democratic country in the world? Yes or No?

If you answer any of the above with "no", who would qualify for a "yes"?

These questions aren't new. Look at some statements from the time of the civil war. Read through some of the stuff Lincoln and his cotemporaries wrote and you'll come away with the impression that the future of worldwide democracy stood and fell with America. Not just Amwrican democracy - every whole bit of democracy everywhere. And it goes from there right through every bit of regime change in the 20th century to "winning hearts and minds" and "nation building" in the 21st century. It's how America presents itself to the world - Uncle Sam knows best.

So yeah, the way I see America is as... the jock with the perfect smile who struts around the world scene, shoulders squared, all confidence, but not really knowing more than his sports stuff. (An exaggeration, but I hope one that helps me illustrate my point)

Do I have statistics to back me up? No. I admit that I don't have. I am sure there are surveys about how people around the world see America. But I don't have them at hand and I think it would make no difference if I had.

I just find it difficult to believe that Americans (i.e. a majority of American citizens) does not view themselves the way I see them because the information and history I form my impression on is readily available to every American.

Do I believe all Americans are the same? No. Of course not. But isn't that exactly what Trump is all about - a desire for "greatness"? And look at how instinctively many Americans seem to react to terms like "socialism". Doesn't matter if you are a communist or a social democrat. Bernie Sanders broke the mold here, but how many people can you think of that will blow a gasket if you wave the word "socialism" under their nose? Why is that? Because it is not American. I could make a longer list, but I think you get the gist of it. So yeah, I think America defines itself in terms of us and them because I have seen it. And my best guess as to why that is is that America wants to be great.
ONs, OFFs, and writing samples | Oath of the Drake

You can not value dreams according to the odds of their becoming true.
(Sonia Sotomayor)

Teo Torriatte

Once again you seem to be confusing the rhetoric of the vocal minority(mostly politicians and their ilk) and superimposing that onto the thoughts of everyday people who certainly don't go around swaggering like some jock or however you put it. Most of us just want to live our lives and speaking for myself, I don't appreciate being stereotyped like that.

Why is it difficult to believe that America isn't some kind of hive mind full of people who all think the same way? That is a strange way to look at the entire population of any country.

And Trump isn't about a desire for greatness. Trump is about Trump.

Cassandra LeMay

Quote from: Luna on January 31, 2017, 02:39:09 PM
Why is it difficult to believe that America isn't some kind of hive mind full of people who all think the same way? That is a strange way to look at the entire population of any country.
I can't explain it, Luna. I really can't. I just don't know if that proves my point, or yours, or neither, or maybe both.
ONs, OFFs, and writing samples | Oath of the Drake

You can not value dreams according to the odds of their becoming true.
(Sonia Sotomayor)

Teo Torriatte

Then maybe you should take a moment to see where else that blind hatred and prejudice is coming from. Or try to open your mind a little and try to see people for who they are and not what country they happen to live in.

Blythe

American exceptionalism is often a principle used to motivate Americans to some manner of action, yes. It's a truth that does need to be acknowledged. I generally view it as a form of extremism. It's often a propaganda tool utilized during wars or just before large conflicts.

That being said, the USA is huge. For someone who has just mentioned the belief that Americans have a tendency to think in black and white, I find it a bit strange that you are trying to oversimplify a nation of this size into one shoebox of national thought. Generally speaking, depending on what state you look in, American exceptionalism is stronger or weaker. Some individuals simply don't ascribe to it at all (I don't, not in particular).

Quote from: Cassandra LeMay on January 31, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
Is the President of the United States the most powerful person in the world? Yes or No?

No. He's contained by a system of checks and balances. What's got people worried about Trump is that those checks and balances are going to be tested and pushed to the limit.

Quote from: Cassandra LeMay on January 31, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
Is America the strongest country in the world? Yes or No?

Define 'strong.' We spend quite a lot of money on our military & have a large military, but I think that would be a gross oversimplification of strength. I think we have a reasonably good economy, but I don't think I'd call it the best. Generally speaking, I think the USA isn't the best in most things. I think it's strength comes from the fact it can do tolerably in most areas, that the baseline standard for living is fairly good overall. But the strongest? No. I think the fact we're so sprawling and huge precludes being the strongest. We're too chaotic.

I'm not sure what country I would see as the 'strongest,' but then again, I don't really like looking at countries in those terms. I prefer to look at them in terms of general prosperity, civil rights, and what the quality of life is like for an 'average' citizen when trying to formulate an opinion on a place.

Quote from: Cassandra LeMay on January 31, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
Is America the most democratic country in the world? Yes or No?

No. I don't know what country I would say is, though. I admire certain European countries in this regard, though.
Dreamless sleep, follows the Nowhere King
When his kingdom comes, darkness is nigh

-from "The Nowhere King," from the show Centaurworld

Cassandra LeMay

I could probably make a point about denial being confirmation, but I could also make a fool of myself.   ;D

I still think that exceptionalism is a subject that transcends left and right and needs to be talked about, but I guess I went about it the wrong way.

But whatever I think about the subject, one thing that did not help my posting was that I felt I had to defend myself in two fast-moving threads. Maybe it would be best we closed this thread down and debated this topic in the other threads that are also dealing with the subject.
ONs, OFFs, and writing samples | Oath of the Drake

You can not value dreams according to the odds of their becoming true.
(Sonia Sotomayor)

Blythe

Quote from: Cassandra LeMay on January 31, 2017, 04:27:31 PM
I still think that exceptionalism is a subject that transcends left and right and needs to be talked about, but I guess I went about it the wrong way.

Oh, I agree with this wholeheartedly. As mentioned above, I consider American exceptionalism a form of extremism, and I think that when you look right or left, if you look far enough, it most certainly pops up. Trump's rhetoric is most certainly a form of touting American exceptionalism, and unfortunately, it's a tool used frequently in the states and can motivate people to action..and not always good action. While he did not get the majority of the vote, he did get a rather hefty amount of votes in general, and I think this is in part because he catered to the idea of America as being exceptional. It's why I don't see all Trump supporters as necessarily prejudiced; I think some of them just fell prey to Trump's rhetoric appealing to nostalgia and exceptionalism.

It's a seductive & charismatic sort of rhetoric for people that feel disenfranchised, one that people who might be struggling would want to believe.
Dreamless sleep, follows the Nowhere King
When his kingdom comes, darkness is nigh

-from "The Nowhere King," from the show Centaurworld

Teo Torriatte

Quote from: Cassandra LeMay on January 31, 2017, 04:27:31 PM
I could probably make a point about denial being confirmation, but I could also make a fool of myself.   ;D

I still think that exceptionalism is a subject that transcends left and right and needs to be talked about, but I guess I went about it the wrong way.

But whatever I think about the subject, one thing that did not help my posting was that I felt I had to defend myself in two fast-moving threads. Maybe it would be best we closed this thread down and debated this topic in the other threads that are also dealing with the subject.

As you said yourself maybe look in the mirror. For some reason you felt you needed to make this another whole topic instead of just continuing the conversation in the topic I had already started.

Cassandra LeMay

Quote from: Luna on January 31, 2017, 04:45:26 PM
As you said yourself maybe look in the mirror. For some reason you felt you needed to make this another whole topic instead of just continuing the conversation in the topic I had already started.
Look... I started what I started because I wanted to have my own voice in my own thread and post my own thoughts in my won thread.

Lets give it a rest, please. I actually asked staff to close this thread down, so lets wait and see what happens. Blythe made some good points, so why don't we just take a couple steps down, wait and see if the world will still be in one piece tomorrow, then get back to this all fresh and rested?
ONs, OFFs, and writing samples | Oath of the Drake

You can not value dreams according to the odds of their becoming true.
(Sonia Sotomayor)