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Author Topic: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?  (Read 18393 times)

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Offline Nastara

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2016, 01:26:51 PM »
Really?  At my own table I've always set it in high school!

There's a lot of really interesting ideas in Monsterhearts, I think.  Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, that MAY be part of the reason I haven't run it on E yet.  There's the whole dual-story-telling-layer of Teenage Monsters on the surface and Metaphors For How Relationships Can Be Toxic underneath.  At my own home table that's REALLY cool and we can do some really in-depth interesting discussions of it, but for E... It takes a lot of trust.

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2016, 01:34:08 PM »
The only way I'd play the game would be PBP. In real time I am far too likely to look at some of these toxic relationships and actually get pissed off. Same for the people I play with. We've all had these kinds of relationships and we have very strong feelings about that kind of bs. Plus I play with people with degrees in psychology and sociology and the like. Misrepresented relationships and elements where you can tell the creator's view blocked his view of how the dynamics actually work will cause a great deal of frustration at the table.

My preferred game about dysfunctional relationships will always be Sorcerer. It's a much stronger dynamic and one divorced enough from real studied situations that real anger is unlikely to surface. Also it's just a really good game.

Offline Nastara

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2016, 01:36:51 PM »
That's fair, DarkPrince!  Monsterhearts is DEFINITELY not for everyone.  I don't even think there is anyone who would be cool playing it in every situation!  It's a game that can get dark and hard and requires a LOT of trust at the table.  Too many times I've read horror stories of players racing to the bottom.  But when it plays well, it is SO good.  I really, really love it.

What do you mean that Sorcerer is a much stronger dynamic?  I've only played one session of Sorcerer and enjoyed some aspects of it quite a bit!

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2016, 02:00:35 PM »
It's less an issue with trust and more that the people at my table would see playing out toxic relationships the same way they would playing out a retail job. We can literally have that experience every day. It doesn't feel very dark to us so much as mundane.

Sorcerer provides really solid relationship mechanics in it's sorcery system. It makes the dysfunctional relationships the focal point of the game without making it into a drama fest. Everything is give and take. Negotiation, browbeating, forcing, coercing, sweet talking... and this is all because of how the system is set up. It makes for very powerful, shifting relationship dynamics. Ones much more reminiscent of actual relationships. Everyone has needs and wants and desires - and the system takes that idea and runs with it. Very cool stuff.

Offline Dingo

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2016, 02:46:13 PM »
I have more RP books than I care to admit, but there are a few that I am particularly fond of and I almost never see mentioned.

I own pretty much all the Mutants and Masterminds books for 2nd and 3rd edition (in digital versions, as I came late to that one). And it can be used for more than just superhero gaming, but people get turned of on the damage system quick. (Which is I think a pity)

I bought a whole lot of the Hârn stuff from some edition at some clearance sale, and I have never really used it, but it came with the most beautiful maps and setting stuff I have seen in any game (except I don't care much for the setting, it was still beautiful).

I heard the L5R 4e mentioned. The only times I got to play the game usually died within the first few sessions. But I like it, and so far have collected some of the books.

Forgotten Realms: I used to collect everything for 3rd edition. Even have a bit for older editions. Even though I really don't like D&D. But that setting with all it's flaws I did like.

And there is my favourite game of all times. The Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game (MURPG). With the most unique system I have ever seen. And while power play is certainly possible, it is a very fun system to use. Except it depends on trust. (A little, especially in an online format)

I am also very fond of the direction that Savage Worlds and their settings are going these days. But I have only so much money to assign to hobbies that in physical form I haven't done in ages.

Offline wander

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Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2016, 04:04:29 PM »
I've been in two or three Monsterheart games set here on-site, they usually collapse before the IC stuff really gets going... I think people have hang-ups on the system... Its annoying as I've made multiple characters for the game and have done IC posts for those characters, though I have NEVER rolled dice for any of them as the game never gets that far... And I find that really annoying, as I'm a gamer over a writer and I do Pbp to roll dice and game not write prose.

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2016, 04:27:44 PM »
Mechanically I only have one real problem with the game. Gaze Into the Abyss. It is an incredibly nebuolous Move that does nothing to advance the story and requires you to basically not interact with anyone else. It is a pure exposition Move. And I actually brought this up to the creator of the game in a conversation. I quickly realized the problem. He watches the genre of paranormal romance but he doesn't read it. So he tried translating a cinematic tool into a non cinematic format. It's a montage button in a medium that doesn't do montages well.

Plus the creator does not like being disagreed with or having someone point that he uses double speak. Honestly I put down Monsterhearts for 3 years after talking to McDonaldo.

Offline Nastara

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2016, 04:31:37 PM »
I haven't actually met the creator of the game (now named Avery!) so I can't speak too much to her thoughts on montage or what exactly she does in terms of paranormal romance.  For myself, I'm also someone who mostly gets my paranormal romance from TV, so I don't mind having a little montage style things!  It's not necessarily a medium that does montage poorly, just gotta work out how to make it work.  I'm always asking my players, "Okay, what does that look like?"

It is definitely a VERY narrative move though with few mechanical advantages but plenty of need to use it.  I view it as a kind of trippy Discern Realities. I'm not sure whether Monsterhearts 2 is going to change that up, my money situation went to shit at about the same time that she was running the kickstarter.

Offline wander

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Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2016, 04:42:24 PM »
I'd really like to do Monsterhearts just once and roll dice for it, just to see how the system is like in-play...

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2016, 04:45:36 PM »
I hate the move. Basically it is a Move that has to be redefeined by every single GM to make it mean anything. That is such garbage writing. It is useless. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't advance the game. It doesn't make anything interesting happen. It provokes no reaction from anyone. It's trigger fiction is vague to the point of uselessness. I honestly see no need to use it. It's a deus ex machina roll. It basically says "I don't know what to do next so let me roll some dice so the GM can tell em where to go from here."

And non-visual mediums absolutely do montages terribly. There are much better literary mechanics for the same purpose.

Having met Avery (before becoming Avery) I can attest that she absolutely agreed with me calling it the montage button. My definition of it is spot on according to her. She agreed with my definition and then spent the next two days yelling at me because I thought that definition made it worthless. Thoroughly unpleasant person to talk to.

Offline Nastara

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2016, 04:49:19 PM »
I can't speak to Avery's purpose with it, nor will I defend any negative behavior she may have had!  I just haven't had difficulty with it at the table.  It may be a your-mileage-may-vary thing. 

That said, I will point out that it is almost literally 'open your brain to the psychic maelstrom' from Apocalypse World and Monsterhearts was one of the very first games in the PbtA family!  Since then games have gotten much tighter, moves have gotten better, and certain ways of thinking have emerged in order to remove YMMV style moves.

Offline BlytheTopic starter

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2016, 04:52:36 PM »
Have been thinking of other stuff I have my eye on or already have:

I've heard good things about an OSR-inspired game called 'The Nightmares Underneath.' It's got a legal free texty version here, but the art-filled paid version is here (that cover, for realz, I want it). I've yet to read it, but I'm hoping its an interesting as I've heard.

I also have a very sweet looking tabletop for very pastoral-type games, sort of Japanese supernatural slice-of-life, called Golden Sky Stories. It's incredibly cute.

Offline Nastara

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2016, 04:54:43 PM »
I played Golden Sky Stories a while back, I think... 2013?  It was SO delightful.  I loved it.  It's so freaking cute.

Offline wander

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Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2016, 05:00:47 PM »
Oh, is that the one which is basically Pom Poko the rpg? Where you play transforming foxes, cats, dogs, raccoons and stuff? :)

Never played a game of it, though I'm curious on it... It seems like it could get a bit boring without some awesome GMing going on for it.

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2016, 05:29:52 PM »
I can't speak to Avery's purpose with it, nor will I defend any negative behavior she may have had!  I just haven't had difficulty with it at the table.  It may be a your-mileage-may-vary thing.

I never had any trouble in the games I ran of it either. I just have problems with it. As a writer it's vagueness bothers me. It's ambiguity robs it of it any ability to be effective. I like writing that is concise. Sharp enough to cut. When it can mean anything to anyone it becomes a politician's speech. Open to any interpretation and almost certainly meaning nothing.

That said, I will point out that it is almost literally 'open your brain to the psychic maelstrom' from Apocalypse World and Monsterhearts was one of the very first games in the PbtA family!  Since then games have gotten much tighter, moves have gotten better, and certain ways of thinking have emerged in order to remove YMMV style moves.

That I know. It was lazy work on McDonaldo's part to translate a setting specific Move to a different setting and word it vaguely enough that she could claim it belonged. Someone besides her needs to rewrite Monsterhearts. Someone who can tighten the writing and mold a more powerful narrative focus from the Moves.

Online RedPhoenix

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2016, 05:49:13 PM »
At one point I had a lot of 2e stuff, but it's all long gone now.

I have most of the 5e stuff though! :)

I also have the Black Crusade rulebook, and a bunch of pdfs scattered about. I think my favorite of those is the V20 Dark Ages.

Offline Skynet

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2016, 05:53:11 PM »
I never had any trouble in the games I ran of it either. I just have problems with it. As a writer it's vagueness bothers me. It's ambiguity robs it of it any ability to be effective. I like writing that is concise. Sharp enough to cut. When it can mean anything to anyone it becomes a politician's speech. Open to any interpretation and almost certainly meaning nothing.

That I know. It was lazy work on McDonaldo's part to translate a setting specific Move to a different setting and word it vaguely enough that she could claim it belonged. Someone besides her needs to rewrite Monsterhearts. Someone who can tighten the writing and mold a more powerful narrative focus from the Moves.

May be a tangent, and I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that McDonaldo's gender-queer. I can't find anything atm, but I recall seeing it mentioned somewhere.

As for Monsterhearts, it's the kind of RPG that should be up my alley. However its use of Sex Moves where the protagonists are high school-aged make it hard to introduce to a lot of gaming groups; even if you 'fade to black' and focus more on the drama and relationships, it's not something that can be easily removed given how Apocalypse World systems work. It can work for ERP maybe, but I don't know how well it can be played on a PbP format.

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2016, 06:03:13 PM »
May be a tangent, and I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that McDonaldo's gender-queer. I can't find anything atm, but I recall seeing it mentioned somewhere.

As for Monsterhearts, it's the kind of RPG that should be up my alley. However its use of Sex Moves where the protagonists are high school-aged make it hard to introduce to a lot of gaming groups; even if you 'fade to black' and focus more on the drama and relationships, it's not something that can be easily removed given how Apocalypse World systems work. It can work for ERP maybe, but I don't know how well it can be played on a PbP format.

All I know is that it's Avery and not Joe and that she is still a massive twatwaffle.

All you have to do to make Monsterhearts playable is say they are college students instead of high school students. All it changes are their ages and it fixes most people's issues on the subject. I have literally never played it or seen it played set in high school. In fact one time I saw it set in a community center amongst a bunch of twenty somethings.

Offline wander

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Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2016, 07:50:02 AM »
At one point I had a lot of 2e stuff, but it's all long gone now.

I have most of the 5e stuff though! :)

I also have the Black Crusade rulebook, and a bunch of pdfs scattered about. I think my favorite of those is the V20 Dark Ages.

I got my Black Crusade rulebook a few days ago.  XD

I've been building a Heretek leaning towards Tzeentch (with maybe a lil dabbling with Slaanesh later in-game with it) these past few days. Have given
him a Servo-Arm as his strength is pretty damn low so he can carry all his cool weapons n' stuff (Light Carapace Armour that he starts with is 15kg in weight and I have yet to decide between what his starting melee weapon is between the Power Axe (7kg) or Great Axe... (8kg)).

Spent last night and today building their Servitor (lesser minion) up, considering calling the servitor 'Navi' after the fairy from Legend of Zelda based on how they're turning out! xD

I'd like some Black Crusade gaming, that'd be really fun.  :-)

Online RedPhoenix

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2016, 01:41:54 PM »
Making characters in that system is crazy fun and I love the 'gifts' that the powers give!

Offline wander

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Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2016, 02:48:34 PM »
It really is!

It's different to Rogue Trader in being a bit more classless around doing things. Also Deathwatch can be a pain because Space Marines have all these extra powers and buffs to keep track of. I say this and amount of cybernetics and crap on my Heretek, well...  ::)

They're starting the game with only 1 advance aligned to a Chaos God (Tzeentch) as I wanted to cover some basic skills before taking them into a game. I think I've done everything for them except snaffle up their two extra Gear items. I'm thinking more powerful ranged weapon and a basic equipment item will cover them, my servitor will have scanny stuff in them (they're basically similar to a scanning servo-skull at this point).

I haven't read through the gifts and things yet, honestly as soon as I cracked the book open I darted straight into making a character...  ;D XD

It could do with some errata though... I couldn't find Unholy Unguents in the Equipment despite the Heretek listed as having it. Although I did find the Unholy Icon, so I'm assuming that the unguents are the Admech's version of that item.

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2016, 03:02:03 PM »
Black Crusade needed a lot of errata for some reason. My biggest problems with that game is a) most people have no idea how to run a group game based around bad guys and b) the power disparity between player choices. Like I love the Plaguemeister but if someone else chooses a Chaos Space Marine I will literally be doing next to nothing as they can just steamroll through anything I can deal with or I will be massacred if they put in something that is a challenge for them. It's two separate games under a trenchcoat so it can get into the movie by only buying one ticket.

Online RedPhoenix

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2016, 03:10:53 PM »
Yeah, unfortunately it ends up being one of those systems that is much cooler to build characters for than it is to play. Even after all of the errata the system is still pretty convoluted, or maybe 5e has spoiled me for playability.

Offline TheSithChicken

Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2016, 03:15:50 PM »
Yeah, unfortunately it ends up being one of those systems that is much cooler to build characters for than it is to play. Even after all of the errata the system is still pretty convoluted, or maybe 5e has spoiled me for playability.

That is the problem with most of the 40K rpgs honestly. They are often rigid and overly complex at times - which admittedly is keeping in the spirit of the game but isn't necessarily the most fun to play. Only War and Dark Heresy 2e I think fixed a lot of the issues with the system. You have a lot of options but without unnecessary rigidity or overcomplification.

Offline wander

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Re: Hey there, system gamers! What tabletop rpgs do you own?
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2016, 03:33:53 PM »
Touche, it is pretty clear there's a bit of disparity there, though personally if I was GM, I'd counter it by limiting combat. CSM characters are basically combat steamrollers but kind of lacking in any skills, so Facing and Puzzles will be best solved by the Human Cultist character types. In a way you can run a mixed party, by having the technical and facing done by the humans and have the CSMs deal with combat when it comes up.

As for people running games with bad guys, I point to world of darkness Vampire. Yeah, there's gonna be a bit of PvP going on if unchecked, though a strong goal for the party to cooperate over should reign it in a fair chunk. :)

I also find the 40k games to seem crunchy as all hell on paper, though I've played a shed-ton of Adeptus Evangelion (just as crunchy, believe me) and it soon boils down easily enough. Perhaps not the best game for a beginner to rpgs, though it's not as crunch as the books make it seem. I think D&D 3.5 has more crunch to it, IMHO.