Council of Wyrms: 3.5 DnD Classic Game

[Chulanowa]

So what I'm looking at (for the dragons) is a Green who's some kind of Merlin (for all your Knowledge, Spellcraft, and alchemy needs!) a Copper "face" type (who enjoys collecting small bipedal pets, the poor dears) and a delusional Red who wants to fight for personal glory then retire to a lovely island where it can rule as a noble of some sort (Chaotic neutral muscle-type - could also go with a white, just for the fun of it)

For the kindred, man, beats the fuck out of me.

[ThisOneGal]

ThisOneGal: I say no to lunar dragons. Just cause they are so disruptive in behavior in general (I would been okay of floating 'moon rocks' above the island), but anything which is threat to council is eliminated outright and thus lunar dragons who are alien in dragon standard and also chaotically going rampages/destruction (nor care 90% of stuff what other dragons care about) creates far too much security risks for dragons living in the isles. If lunar dragon as printed would show up; it would be eliminated by the council and put down like rampaging wild animal. Same treatment is reserved for normal dragons who go mad (rogue dragons who suffer insanity or other such major mental flaw and are disruptive/causing random mayhem).

There is difference of some temperemental elder wyrm going temper tantrum over their own domain, than one who goes temper tantrum all over the place and has no respect for the council. Council's respect is reinforced if neccesary to drive point to all dragons not mess with united might of rest of the dragons who respects the council.

In general, take into account dragons had in this world lived millenia in constant conflict, twice, in row. Once before Io arrived (they murdered and struggled openly vs each other), then on islands they continued and then Io interferred again by training humans to be perfect dragonslayers and most likely give them artifacts or other power boosts (like secret how build dragon orb artifacts) to drive his own children to constant threat of enslavement/murder by human dragonslayers as means to unite them and get along. This foundation and faith is very basis for everything in Council of Wyrms society, so keep that in mind when design dragon/char concepts.

Bleh, alright, finally back. ^^

> but anything which is threat to council is eliminated outright and thus lunar dragons who are alien in dragon standard and also chaotically going rampages/destruction (nor care 90% of stuff what other dragons care about) creates far too much security risks for dragons living in the isles. If lunar dragon as printed would show up; it would be eliminated by the council and put down like rampaging wild animal.

I feel I should probably elaborate on what I said here:

> Would definitely want to keep the general physical look of Lunar Dragons. Can ditch the random rampaging, since that doesn't really play well into a political game, but we can transfer that over to the Lunar isles; the rocks float around, dropping lunar creatures and dust everywhere, having more or less the same effect as a rampaging dragon, but slower.

The wild rampages part of Lunar Dragons was something I explicitly did not want to keep. I was thinking that the Lunars are semi-incorporated into draconic society (present for a few decades/centuries or so); they play ball, mostly keep to themselves and don't directly/provably cause more problems than anyone else, but they're still a bunch of creepy, scarily buff weirdos with funny accents that no one really trusts.

The transferring the rampaging over to the Lunar isles was more a way of introducing plot hooks/conflict; a Lunar Isle is a very slow moving natural disaster/superfund site, but no one controls what they do or how they move, and blaming the tenants would be costly and pointless; the floating island is the problem, not the cult that lives on it. It throws in a way to force conflict and drama; no one wants to have a Lunar isle crash into their stuff, and the Lunars who live there don't really want their house to crash into someone else's.

> This foundation and faith is very basis for everything in Council of Wyrms society, so keep that in mind when design dragon/char concepts.

I'm having trouble reading through the Council or Wyrms book, since most of it seems to be about mechanical rules that aren't applicable and seems poorly/archaically organized in general, so I haven't been able to read much about the setting's history, but that's part of why I find the Lunar concept so interesting. It throws in a bunch of possibly confused and suspicious potential threats, but they're mostly playing ball for the moment. Everyone's agreed that some guy called Io is in charge, but these new guys are pretty convinced that someone called Andakakilogitat is running the show. While the Lunars aren't doing anything overtly/possibly-deliberately (depending on if they're just as confused as to why they're not on the moon or if they're planning something), their presence acts as a catalyst or an excuse for others to do things.

EDIT: I should point out, I'm fine playing a 'normal' dragon; I just found the Lunars potentially really interesting.

[Kimera]

No tentacles? BLASPHEMY!

I know right ;)

[Zaer Darkwail]

From what I understand any specific dragon court is going to be alignment aligned with it's primary color. IE The 5 courts listed as greed dragon courts are all Lawful evil. They do not, necessarily, only have Green dragons among them.  Any Dragon who joins a green dragon court is probably lawful evil, one step from lawful evil, or really dumb.  An individual green dragon can be neutral good (Though NPC green dragons at least tend toward LE there are plenty of exceptions. PC's may chose alignment freely)  but a Neutral Good Green Dragon would want nothing to do with any of the Green Dragon courts. They might find themselves better suited for that of an Amethyst dragon court or a Silver Dragon Court.

Did I get it fairly accurately Zaer?

Correct; the clan structure follows the 'majority' of dragons alignment pool. But there are odd rebels or loners here and there (like chaotic good red dragon) who do not fit to the mold of the clan and thus when they grow up become rogue dragons who seek place for themselves (as note clans can be paranoid or not accepting, but gem dragons usually are much more tolerant than metallic or chromatic clans are usually). Also rogue dragons may seek out form their own clans with some like minded other rogue dragons (or mates). Dragons mate with their own kind but they can mate with other dragons (the eggs are based on highest HD between the partners), however taboo subject is 'complete hybrid' dragon eggs (meaning 5% chance to have offspring inheriting both parents draconic traits and thus be mutants).

Anyways Jaddress is approved, interesting sort clan. As note in generic sense humans are seen as wild animals and most dragons just hunt/kill them for sport but there can be clans which do make expection to the rule (like Jaddress one does in above).

ThisOneGal: Ah, so rampage off but more random nature catastrophy. Anycase I would still say no because the lunar dragons appear too different from generic dragons (I just do not feel comfortable with them after I read about them and their abilities and potential lunar culture around them). So I would ask pick a more generic dragon if possible.

[ThisOneGal]

ThisOneGal: Ah, so rampage off but more random nature catastrophy. Anycase I would still say no because the lunar dragons appear too different from generic dragons (I just do not feel comfortable with them after I read about them and their abilities and potential lunar culture around them). So I would ask pick a more generic dragon if possible.

No worries. ^^

Is there a decent (visual) guide to 3.5 dragons online somewhere?

[PaleEnchantress]

Anyways Jaddress is approved, interesting sort clan. As note in generic sense humans are seen as wild animals and most dragons just hunt/kill them for sport but there can be clans which do make expection to the rule (like Jaddress one does in above).

Jadress feels humans are animals too, just *Domesticated* animals. Since Dragons will fuck a lion, a tiger, or a bear (oh my) humans are fair game too.  It's not as if they will worry about accidental pregnancy with their level of magic. I'm sure the "Morning After Spell" is second level or so. Actual dragon/humanoid love in Jadress is almost certainly between dark elf and dragon not human and dragon. Though other elf races are around too. Plenty of druids, Air, Water, and Earth are all represented, fire not so much.

[PaleEnchantress]

So what I'm looking at (for the dragons) is a Green who's some kind of Merlin (for all your Knowledge, Spellcraft, and alchemy needs!) a Copper "face" type (who enjoys collecting small bipedal pets, the poor dears) and a delusional Red who wants to fight for personal glory then retire to a lovely island where it can rule as a noble of some sort (Chaotic neutral muscle-type - could also go with a white, just for the fun of it)

For the kindred, man, beats the fuck out of me.

Just to check my character Mircalla (A face and a primary caster type) is the only one fully established so far, right? No one else has their dragon "locked in" yet?

We are all dragons, we all have minions. I don't think we need to really think of "who has which combat/out of combat role"  We will all have some overlap as well as have everything covered.  So I think the "how do they do it"is more important than the "what do they do".  So lets talk about your various concepts in play and how you see them working out so you can decide what feels the most fun.

I think I like the idea behind the copper dragon. I think the pet collection has a particularly funny angle is your dragon remaining ignorant to the fact that all his/her "pets" are terrified/Your dragon "We are all just one big happy family" and everyone agrees because no one wants to find out what would happen if they don't.  Or some of the pets try and run away and don't succeed and your dragon just thinks they keep getting 'lost without her'. Sounds perfectly copper dragon eccentric. Both your dragon and Mine would interact with the two legged creatures a lot but have very different ways they do it.  Maybe they would make their "pets" compete in improvised pet shows.

All the ideas are great. How would you play off your green Merlin type? Is he "the recluse" or "the mentor"? Also what shade of Merlin are we talking? He's been everything from a neutral good heartwarming bumbling instructor (like sword and the stone Disney movie) to a an embodiment of natures destruction against the hubris of man. This idea in particular I'd like to work with you more closely on if you go with it. Mostly because he would never come close to Mircalla's level in actual spell casting ability. So i'd like for us to firmly develop your "territory" (you said knowledge skills and alchemy, thats a great start!) so you have a theme and area I don't cover. We should pay attention to each others characters so we can avoid two very similar characters where one is just vastly superior in doing everything the other does.

For your red dragon idea I'm getting a somewhat "Physical based vainglory" vibe. Red works so much better then white here unless you want more of a dumb muscle thing going on. Seeing themselves as the perfect embodiment of dragon might. Maybe like a dragon Achilles? (the archetype fits females or males equally well)

[Karasu]

I'm still here.. still thinking about what to play.. I'd gladly play someone's kindred if they like!

For dragon I am still thinking, there's many to choose from after all!

[ThisOneGal]

Alright, I think I'm settling on a Red Dragon, if only cause they seem simple and striaghtforward. Also, I should finally trying RPing something for whom 'direct application of force' is a viable and favoured option. :P

Still trying to find a good picture though.

http://sandara.deviantart.com/art/precious-186360426
http://asuka111.deviantart.com/art/Female-Dragon-8228722
http://chaos-draco.deviantart.com/art/Daeron-the-Red-dragon-473066394
http://artsed.deviantart.com/art/Male-Dragon-530184717
http://dragonsandbeasties.deviantart.com/art/Fire-Dragon-312324605
http://dragonsandbeasties.deviantart.com/art/Dragon-on-D20-446518525
http://kenket.deviantart.com/art/Not-Everyone-Dies-600109719
http://ryky.deviantart.com/art/Devotion-601567425

Also, someone was talking about tentacles and dragons earlier, yes?
https://cdn3.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/002/452/007/large/saki-yamamura-.jpg?1461889909

EDIT: Moar

http://artsed.deviantart.com/art/Male-Dragon-530184717
http://dragonsandbeasties.deviantart.com/art/Fire-Dragon-312324605
http://dragonsandbeasties.deviantart.com/art/Dragon-on-D20-446518525
http://kenket.deviantart.com/art/Not-Everyone-Dies-600109719
http://njoo.deviantart.com/art/Magma-Dragon-205615090
http://pre04.deviantart.net/4607/th/pre/i/2015/247/7/b/lava_dragon_auction__closed_by_glitchedbat-d9830ra.png
http://cglas.deviantart.com/art/Lava-Dragon-496486893
http://cat-meff.deviantart.com/gallery/40690761/Creatures
http://cat-meff.deviantart.com/art/Baby-amethyst-dragon-608025067
http://cat-meff.deviantart.com/art/The-Legendary-Crystal-Dragon-Opticale-593880882
http://cat-meff.deviantart.com/art/Risen-from-burning-ashes-411301876
http://cat-meff.deviantart.com/art/Where-dragons-are-born-325875179

[Muse]

  Good morning.  Say, Gal, if I settle on a Golden Dragon instead of a Song DRagon, do you mind if I use the image titled, "Precious."  :) 

[Zaer Darkwail]

No worries. ^^

Is there a decent (visual) guide to 3.5 dragons online somewhere?

Draconomicon has deep details on each metallic/chromatic dragon appearances but if want art, google is your friend to look for and good search words :)

[ThisOneGal]

  Good morning.  Say, Gal, if I settle on a Golden Dragon instead of a Song DRagon, do you mind if I use the image titled, "Precious."  :)

Go ahead. ^^

It is an awesome picture. :D

[Kimera]

Lazy dragon thing

[Chulanowa]

I think I like the idea behind the copper dragon. I think the pet collection has a particularly funny angle is your dragon remaining ignorant to the fact that all his/her "pets" are terrified/Your dragon "We are all just one big happy family" and everyone agrees because no one wants to find out what would happen if they don't.  Or some of the pets try and run away and don't succeed and your dragon just thinks they keep getting 'lost without her'. Sounds perfectly copper dragon eccentric. Both your dragon and Mine would interact with the two legged creatures a lot but have very different ways they do it.  Maybe they would make their "pets" compete in improvised pet shows.

Now I want to name it Ellmyrr'ah or something.  ;D

All the ideas are great. How would you play off your green Merlin type? Is he "the recluse" or "the mentor"? Also what shade of Merlin are we talking? He's been everything from a neutral good heartwarming bumbling instructor (like sword and the stone Disney movie) to a an embodiment of natures destruction against the hubris of man. This idea in particular I'd like to work with you more closely on if you go with it. Mostly because he would never come close to Mircalla's level in actual spell casting ability. So i'd like for us to firmly develop your "territory" (you said knowledge skills and alchemy, thats a great start!) so you have a theme and area I don't cover. We should pay attention to each others characters so we can avoid two very similar characters where one is just vastly superior in doing everything the other does.

Well, I was going for the archetype more than the character - like a sage, mentor-type (though I pity the poor fuck who has a Green Dragon for a mentor, really.) Kinda leaning towards druid or Shaman / spirit shaman if I were to go spellcaster (it's harder in 3.5 than in Pathfinder for me. Pathfinder? it'd be an Alchemist or Occultist, easy) But I have this idea of a dragon who studies "the sciences" - you know, alchemy, astrology, the lumeniferous aether, and physiognomy. Learned, erudite, will happily gas an entire village if they don't want to trade for scrolls ("Scrolls are paper. You can make paper out of bark. here's some bark, give me scrolls. No? Well have it your way.")

For your red dragon idea I'm getting a somewhat "Physical based vainglory" vibe. Red works so much better then white here unless you want more of a dumb muscle thing going on. Seeing themselves as the perfect embodiment of dragon might. Maybe like a dragon Achilles? (the archetype fits females or males equally well)

Yeah, I had the idea of the dragon being the valorous warrior who rescues the fair damsel after defeating scores of fire-eating knights. A white Dragon version of Disney's Gaston would be pretty damn funny, honestly  ;D
[/quote]

[Sain]

I've been stalking this. I'm not sure I should, but I dunno when if ever the next Council of Wyrms with all dragons from 3.5 allowed will start. What's the end game with this one though Zaer? Is it gonna be with the dragons getting involved in politics and making stuff happen and causing their own trouble or do you have some plot already in mind?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Atm plot is open as I wait chars and see what sort dragons (and kindred) I get. Overall I do have one (or two) major plots in mind but they do not immediately start but start slowly after you reach juvenline/young adult age as dragons.

[PaleEnchantress]

Atm plot is open as I wait chars and see what sort dragons (and kindred) I get. Overall I do have one (or two) major plots in mind but they do not immediately start but start slowly after you reach juvenline/young adult age as dragons.

So there is a metaphot or two going on but we all will have our own side schemes going on by then too.


I should check the life expectancy for a Dvati....


Edit: Okay it seems before they become outsider (evil) Jerion has a max life of 500-800 years. I'd probably avoid their usual path to fiend of possession and do something else, maybe go bard or wilder. I'd be open to someone else controlling Jerion but I doubt anyone in that level of RP challenge. So I'll probably be taking the usual "Kindred" in Jerion but go with a different build for them. There is a feat in dragon magazine that can only be taken at one and would make them immune to aging. One way or another I can make sure they will live for the entire campaign.

[ThisOneGal]

Clan Blackrock
Primal Red Dragons
All Will Be Consumed In Ash

The dragons of Clan Blackrock roost in the far north, in a place where the barriers between the elemental planes of fire and earth are thin. When these thin places overlap, magma spills forth out of the air. Rocky islands form in the air, held in place by their interplanar intersections. The islands are black, with streams of orange lava flowing over the edges. Choking clouds of ash and black glass billow from the islands. Despite this, the molten earth and heat produce some of the most fertile land in the frozen north, although farming it is highly labor intensive as the lava flows constantly change the shape of the islands; a once fertile field can be swallowed by a lake of fire in a year.

The lowermost, sea level islands are used for farming. The ones that hover above the seas are mined for precious ores. With the lava that formed them originating from the plane of earth, the rocks are rich in rare and valuable ores and gems. The highest islands are the roosts of the dragons. Higher and larger islands are more valuable, and claimed by more powerful dragons. The innermost islands are trapped within a ashen maelstrom; valuable and or dangerous slaves and artifacts are kept here, prevented from escape or theft by the heat, ash, lightning, storms of obsidian, and the surrounding dragons. The slaves/servants/underlings of the clan are trapped by their master's homes; suspended hundreds or thousands of feet in the air, or surrounded by waters to treacherous and violent for any ship, or dependent on their masters for the very air they breathe, any rebellious populace would simply be purged in fire and ash before being replaced.

The dragons of the Clan have been changed by their home. Their red scales have turned black, either seared by the heat of their dens or an adaptation to endure them. A red/orange glow seeps from the cracks between their scales, burning almost as much as the molten earth they swim in. Perhaps due to their closeness to the elemental plane of fire, they are even more resistant to heat than other Reds, seemingly healed rather then immune to the most extreme temperatures. Their forms are bulkier and tougher, favouring power and endurance over swiftness and subtlety (again, perhaps, a result of their connection to the elemental plan of earth). Perhaps unusually, the majority of Blackrock Dragons are hermaphroditic, possibly due to their almost elemental physiology. While most still have distinct male/female identities, the distinction is largely a mental one than a physiological one.

Their temperaments match their surroundings. The dragons of Clan Blackrock are more patient and less easily driven to outbursts than their cousins, emulating the steady fury of a lava flow than the rage of an inferno. However, when pushed their rage is legendary, emulating the fiery cataclysm of a volcanic eruption. Members of Clan Blackrock are unusually cooperative within their clan, recognizing the long term benefits of it despite the short term costs. External relations, however, are firmly dominated by realpolitik; while they may appear to exhibit benevolence to each other, their relations with outsiders are purely utilitarian. While the Blackrock Clan has no true friends, they lack those they would consider true enemies. Although, given that they are a bunch of monstrous dragons, there are those that would consider them true enemies. Lesser neighboring clans can rest uneasy in the knowledge that they are probably not worth the effort to be conquered, and their more powerful neighbors can generally rely on Blackrock's patience to avoid surprises.

Blackrock has surprisingly poor relations with Red and Black clans, as their unusual appearance is unnerving. They tend to have surprisingly good relations with Gem clans, as the rational and unimaginative Gem Dragons feel they can understand Blackrock more than most Chromatic or Metallic Clans. Relations with the Metallic clans is generally tense but productive; Blackrock is quite capable of working with Metallics to pursue mutually beneficial goals, but they and their 'allies' are keenly aware of the transient nature of their cooperation. Clan Blackrock has developed something of a reputation for being underestimated, and have a tendency to exploit this, either by playing dumb or bluffing a confidence and knowledge they lack.


Nevalith
Female Blackrock Wyrmling

A typical example of a member of Clan Blackrock, Nevalith is a young female member of her clan. Compared to the wyrmlings of other clans, she is larger, stronger, and tougher, but clumsier and less magically apt. It would be a mistake to think her less intelligent due to this; it would not be the first or last time a member of Clan Blackrock (or Nevalith) was though to be stupid or lacking in imagination, but it is a mistake few make twice. It is perhaps why she is here; so that her peers may learn the perils of underestimating someone they think a mere brute compared to themselves.


Ash
Fire Elemental, Kindred

Born in the fires of a Blackrock forge, Ash is a small and unusually intelligent and purposeful fire elemental. She's more focused on creation and change than a typical fire elemental, and more closely attuned with the material races and their mindsets. Ash was born at the same time as Nevalith's hatching; a result of the surge of magic that occurs when a Dragon enters the world. Fire elementals are relatively common Kindred for Blackrock hatchlings; few other intelligent creatures are capable of surviving the hellish temperatures newly hatched Primal Red Dragons find comfortable.

[Muse]

Estassia Sunrunner Embersong

  Happy, hyper, bouncy, and courageous--all too a fault. 
  Estassia is a cheerfully heroic champion of justice right out of the egg.  Hopefully she'll live long enough to temper her idealism with the wisdom to recognize a foe who would stomp her flat with minimal effort! 

  Does anyone have ready access to the requirements for Maximize Breath? 

[Karasu]

I have a few.. concept ideas.. I'd love opinions.


an Elegant Cosmic sort of dragon, chinese style.


a blue and magenta colored dragon with lightning powers! I rather like this one myself.


A gemstone dragon! This one's blue!

Kindred concept

Kindred, a half silver dragon that was sold as a slave to his master/mistress, but he likes his role as servant to his dragon master.

[Zaer Darkwail]

ThisOneGal: Is there stats for primal fire dragons somewhere or is it more a fluff? Anyways council of wyrms is set of islands which are cut on three parts on climate; far north being super freezing cold, middle is temperate ones (where most humanoids also live in and that section also has three parts in itself) and far south is something what fits to Blackrock clan's domain description (constant volcanic activity).

Muse: Your dragon looks good to go :). Just need make sure that CR 3 dragons get upragded to CR 5 category. Most likely just get extra HD up to same amount as gold's do have.

Karasu: I like the ligthning or the blue gem dragon :). However half-dragons cannot be kindred, only regular humanoids are allowed to such pacts (elf, dwarf, gnome, halfling, orc, hobgoblin, goblin, kobold). They can be draconic variants from dragon magic (like fireblood dwarves) but not half-dragon nor 'draconic'. Half-dragons are largerly viewed as 'unwanted bastards' by most dragon society and thus reason you have to pick either play dragon+kindred or only a half-dragon.

[Karasu]

ahhh kk, I'm not fully versed with it, but I thought the pic was nice XD

I think I'll go with the lightning dragon personally.. I can easily whip up a nice dwarf I think.. or a willowy elf..

Anyone need a kindred and would be interested in my playing it? XD

or are we not allowed to do that Zaer?

[Zaer Darkwail]

I originally encouraged players to play each other's kindred so yes, it's allowed :).

[Karasu]

Wonderous! Anyone interested in a male Kindred?

[ThisOneGal]

ThisOneGal: Is there stats for primal fire dragons somewhere or is it more a fluff?

More fluff. There's a Pathfinder equivalent, I think, but I was just gonna go with red dragon stats.

If you want/are up for the headache, could try and throw some modifiers on there. Dunno what would work well though. Str/Con bonuses? The Burn (Ex) ability? Faster access to DR? I dunno. I'm awful at the mechanical parts of DnD.

Anyways council of wyrms is set of islands which are cut on three parts on climate; far north being super freezing cold, middle is temperate ones (where most humanoids also live in and that section also has three parts in itself) and far south is something what fits to Blackrock clan's domain description (constant volcanic activity).

I'm aware of that, but I really like the volcano surrounded by ice imagery. The fire at the end of the world. It also gives them a little something more to stand out/differentiate them. I'm fine with moving them down to the tropics (could give them a sort of Hawaiian touch) if you want.

Any feedback on the Kindred? The 2e to 3.5e conversion for dragon rules is already all weird and I'm gonna need a guide on what to do for chargen, so I have no idea how to handle a fire elemental PC with class levels.