All Hail God-Emperor Trump

[TheGlyphstone]

Yes, 35 miles is pretty darn narrow, in the sense that a country doesn't stop at a coastline. There are borders running though those waters, miles away from dry land.

12 nautical miles, or 13.8 conventional miles specifically. That leaves a 7.4 mile wide belt of true international water in between those two coastlines. Iranian speedboats were getting as close as 500 yards away. There's no legitimate reason to be maneuvering that close to another nation's ships without permission, especially when you then proceed to pace them and match their course.

[Mithlomwen]

He is going to end up starting World War Three.

The man has absolutely zero concept of reality.  He is so used to having 'yes men' around him all of the time, that when you present him with facts and proof of something specific, he will bold face lie about it.....and believe that it's the truth. 

The more news I read lately, the more scared I become. 

[DominantPoet]

He is going to end up starting World War Three.

I have said as much numerous times on various different social outlets. Though I'm more inclined to think it will be Mexico that would end up being the one that gets pushed too far, the way he's going, it could certainly end up being any number of countries who say "fuck it".

Or, alternatively, the US will simply implode and another Civil War will erupt into something far worse. Both of these seem more and more probable the longer Pumpkinhead is Commander in Chief.

[Cassandra LeMay]

He is going to end up starting World War Three.

The man has absolutely zero concept of reality.  He is so used to having 'yes men' around him all of the time, that when you present him with facts and proof of something specific, he will bold face lie about it.....and believe that it's the truth. 

The more news I read lately, the more scared I become.

Well, you gotta hand it to him, he keeps his promises. He said he's not a politician and he sure isn't acting like one. A  politician knows what his lies are and why he's telling them. Trump? Maybe not so much. Promise kept. Give the man a gold star.

Okay, gallows humor aside, yes, he has a lot of power in his hands, but he isn't god (as much as he might have believed that that was what the presidency was all about). Yes, he can do a lot with executive orders and similar devices. But American presidents have done stupid things before. Trump is just the most attention-grabbing president in a good long while. Lets not overrate the guy. He does a lot of stuff I would call bullcrap, but that's not the end of the world.

Deporting Mexicans? Been done. It was called Operation Wetback.

Racial profiling? How about internment camps for Japanese Americans?

Wars? umm... Vietnam, the Panama invasion, Iraq, Afghanistan.

And yet - the world is still in one piece today. We all are. Yes, Trump is perhaps the craziest shit that has happened in a long history of shit, but shit has happened before. Trump will not end the world in a literal sense. (And if he does it could be over so soon we will hardly notice it).

Am I okay with Trump? No, I sure am not. But if we let the guy scare us so much that we cower in fear of his next tweet, he has already won.

[Lustful Bride]

Well, you gotta hand it to him, he keeps his promises. He said he's not a politician and he sure isn't acting like one. A  politician knows what his lies are and why he's telling them. Trump? Maybe not so much. Promise kept. Give the man a gold star.

Okay, gallows humor aside, yes, he has a lot of power in his hands, but he isn't god (as much as he might have believed that that was what the presidency was all about). Yes, he can do a lot with executive orders and similar devices. But American presidents have done stupid things before. Trump is just the most attention-grabbing president in a good long while. Lets not overrate the guy. He does a lot of stuff I would call bullcrap, but that's not the end of the world.

Deporting Mexicans? Been done. It was called Operation Wetback.

Racial profiling? How about internment camps for Japanese Americans?

Wars? umm... Vietnam, the Panama invasion, Iraq, Afghanistan.

And yet - the world is still in one piece today. We all are. Yes, Trump is perhaps the craziest shit that has happened in a long history of shit, but shit has happened before. Trump will not end the world in a literal sense. (And if he does it could be over so soon we will hardly notice it).

Am I okay with Trump? No, I sure am not. But if we let the guy scare us so much that we cower in fear of his next tweet, he has already won.

+1 to this.

[Cassandra LeMay]

12 nautical miles, or 13.8 conventional miles specifically. That leaves a 7.4 mile wide belt of true international water in between those two coastlines. ...

Islands.

... ... Yes ... that acually is my reply.

Islands. 

[TheGlyphstone]

Islands.

... ... Yes ... that acually is my reply.

Islands. 

Alright, you get that one.

Though looking at this low-rez map, it doesn't look like Iran is actually near the narrow bit in question, nor does it have any islands it can claim that aren't already within its coastal water zone already.

[Verasaille]

This is interesting food for thought.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did/?postshare=7121485554646976&tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.24b74769422f

Edited to show this! Yay not everyone is standing idly by watching the show!

https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAmml8l?m=en-us

[Iniquitous]

https://www.aclu.org/news/federal-court-grants-stay-challenge-trump-immigration-ban

So the ACLU just won a stay in federal court against Trump's ban on Muslims.  Should also be noted that he did not include a ban on any country that he has businesses in.

At least our courts did right by putting a stay on this.

[Caedy]

https://www.aclu.org/news/federal-court-grants-stay-challenge-trump-immigration-ban

So the ACLU just won a stay in federal court against Trump's ban on Muslims.  Should also be noted that he did not include a ban on any country that he has businesses in.

At least our courts did right by putting a stay on this.

Of course, he wouldn't list countries he has business dealings with.  That would cause a conflict of interest....he doesn't want that..Oh, wait, we essentially one the "pleasure" of dealing with his conflicts of interest when he won the presidency.  *eye roll*

However, the fact that that ruling allows those with active visas to enter the country is a step in the right direction. 

I actually had an argument with my mother last night, because she sees the ban as a good thing because of the attacks that were perpetrated by refugees in various European countries that took them in without proper vetting, etc or whatever.   I just know there wasn't enough vodka in the house to ensure that I remained sane throughout the conversation. 

[Lustful Bride]

You know what scares me as much as the Trump presidency and the resurgence of the Extremist right?

The way the Extreme left is surging now and going just as crazy. It seems socially acceptable now to attack or even shoot at those you might 'suspect' are Nazis or other far right extremists. And if someone even slightly agrees with the right then they are automatically a trumper and must be shunned and attacked.

I keep seeing it everywhere on youtube and facebook and tumblr (though that's not surprising since Tumblr is pretty insane) that you should attack anyone you so much as suspect is on the other side, no evidence needed just 'follow your heart' or 'follow your gut.'

Its honestly stunning how both sides are doing similar things just changing the words/names and who is the target of their ire...how the hell can anyone pick a side anymore when both of them seem to just be so damn insane. ive always called this era the age of Extremism...im scared to see what comes after.

Edit:I was almost afraid to post this because it feels like anywhere else you don't kiss up to the left you automatically get thrown to the wolves and called a racist, a trumper, an Alt right. Or if you are liberal in the slightest way then you are a panzy, a SJW or etc.  I hate all these labels, all these finger pointing everyone does.

I want my country back to the way it was..where things were getting better and not as insane and divided as they are now. Im not saying I agree with the right or the left, I am just starting to see why everything is so messed up because both sides are feeding into eachother in a vicious cycle of insanity and hate.

I don't even know what im trying to say, it feels like i'm in a madhouse some days and its making me insane too. It doesn't help that im such an idiot sometimes and cant say whats on my mind or properly explain myself. :(

[Cassandra LeMay]

I don't even know what im trying to say, it feels like i'm in a madhouse some days and its making me insane too. It doesn't help that im such an idiot sometimes and cant say whats on my mind or properly explain myself. :(

Most people suffer from that problem at least some of the time. And you are expressing yourself just fine. *hugs*

[Lustful Bride]

Most people suffer from that problem at least some of the time. And you are expressing yourself just fine. *hugs*

*hugs back* I'm just glad my ramblings actually make sense and don't sound so utterly insane.

[Silk]

Yeah your not the only one to feel that way Lustful Bride.

“Sure we’ll have fascism here, but it will come as an anti-fascism movement.” ~ Governor Huey Long

[Insomnancer]

This is quite the echo chamber going on in here. I don't agree with Trump on a great many things but the degree of demonization and fear-mongering going on here is downright dangerous. It leads to the exact sort of ostracization and radicalization and refusal to listen to the other side that caused Trump to be elected in the first place.

How exactly is Trump going to start World War III? With whom? He's a businessman, he makes deals not armed conflict. He ran on a platform of ending pointless wars, and as we've seen so far he's doing exactly what he promised to do while campaigning. The only thing I've seen people say to 'prove' that he's going to get into war is calling him "thin-skinned" which is greatly ironic considering the panicked hand-wringing going on from those who claim it.

Its honestly stunning how both sides are doing similar things just changing the words/names and who is the target of their ire...how the hell can anyone pick a side anymore when both of them seem to just be so damn insane. ive always called this era the age of Extremism...im scared to see what comes after.

I have family members who are obnoxiously conservative. Fundamentalist Christians, voted Republican every single election they've ever gone to. And they would NEVER advocate for any kind of violence against even the most extreme, anti-American communist Antifa member. I only see this kind of support for violence coming from one direction: the left.

And that's not how it should be. The left is supposed to be the side of concern, of care, of compassion, of fairness. And right now they're seething with hatred and I'm sitting here going 'what the heck is going on?!' You aren't going to win people over back to your side if all you're offering is hate and anger and screaming and rioting. We need to be presenting people with a better view of the future or no one will want to join us.

I consider myself a classical liberal so maybe I'm just out of touch with what the left has become, but the thing is that apparently the country itself is out of touch with what the left has become. The way forward, to fix that, is not to double down and become even more progressive and radical but to return to the roots and connect with the American people. Not to scream at them and demand they change and denounce them for not doing so.

[Trigon]

I want my country back to the way it was..where things were getting better and not as insane and divided as they are now. Im not saying I agree with the right or the left, I am just starting to see why everything is so messed up because both sides are feeding into eachother in a vicious cycle of insanity and hate.

I don't even know what im trying to say, it feels like i'm in a madhouse some days and its making me insane too. It doesn't help that im such an idiot sometimes and cant say whats on my mind or properly explain myself. :(

Those days are now over, and they won't be coming back. The center has collapsed, and it can no longer contain either the left or right. I suspect now that it will be impossible to stand "above" it all.


But on the grand scheme of things, what you are all seeing now is merely the beginning of the end of the world system that had been in place for the past four centuries or so. As it is unable to contain its various social, political, and economic contradictions that have plagued it for much of its existence, the thread is beginning to coming apart. One of the symptoms, of course, is the increasing ideological polarization that you are fretting about. This is will increase over the next decade or so.

It's difficult to know how it is all going to play out. But in the immediate run, the battle lines have been drawn.

[Lucetta]

He is going to end up starting World War Three.

The man has absolutely zero concept of reality.  He is so used to having 'yes men' around him all of the time, that when you present him with facts and proof of something specific, he will bold face lie about it.....and believe that it's the truth. 

The more news I read lately, the more scared I become.

China's naval expansion scares me more than our commander-in-chief does.  But one thing that does worry me is that our current commander-in-chief would not be any good at peace talks.  He has absolutely no filter.

[Trigon]

How exactly is Trump going to start World War III? With whom?

Probably with China, and he's already said that he wants to increase our nuclear stockpiles, and even use them some day.

War with other nations can't be ruled out either; it is unclear if he will in fact be able to reproach Putin, and his new UN ambassador is already acting like a loose cannon: http://www.salon.com/2017/01/27/president-trumps-united-nations-european-union-ambassadors-send-early-message-shock-waves/

He's a businessman, he makes deals not armed conflict.

So? That doesn't necessarily mean that he won't just start a war.

He ran on a platform of ending pointless wars, and as we've seen so far he's doing exactly what he promised to do while campaigning. The only thing I've seen people say to 'prove' that he's going to get into war is calling him "thin-skinned" which is greatly ironic considering the panicked hand-wringing going on from those who claim it.

Actually, he's looks to be doing the exact opposite: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-administration-wont-rule-out-stealing-iraq-s-oil-f12feac822f5#.9cec51bgv

I only see this kind of support for violence coming from one direction: the left.

Care to show us some examples from the "left"?

On the other hand, it is the far right that is striking: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/12/montana-officials-do-not-welcome-armed-neo-nazi-march.html

Or perhaps more recently: http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/29/mosque-burned-to-the-ground-hours-after-donald-trump-signs-immigration-order-6412649/

And that's not how it should be. The left is supposed to be the side of concern, of care, of compassion, of fairness. And right now they're seething with hatred and I'm sitting here going 'what the heck is going on?!' You aren't going to win people over back to your side if all you're offering is hate and anger and screaming and rioting. We need to be presenting people with a better view of the future or no one will want to join us.

I consider myself a classical liberal so maybe I'm just out of touch with what the left has become, but the thing is that apparently the country itself is out of touch with what the left has become. The way forward, to fix that, is not to double down and become even more progressive and radical but to return to the roots and connect with the American people. Not to scream at them and demand they change and denounce them for not doing so.

The American people are not a homogeneous group, as this past election made bitterly clear. Rather you have two groups; the radical Right, formed in the wake of Reaganism and Clintonism, and the emerging radical Left, represented by Sanders or other progressive groups.

Unfortunately it is difficult to even meet them at the center when you have a political party that doesn't want minorities, women, etc. to even have basic human rights in the first place. That some may be more sympathetic is good, and we should reach out to them. But you are ultimately in a situation in which either it is not possible to compromise, or it is outright suicidal to do so.

This short essay from Chelsea Manning, I think, makes things clear regarding the inherent difficulties with compromise: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/25/compromise-doesnt-work-political-opponents-chelsea-manning

[Blythe]

Well, you gotta hand it to him, he keeps his promises. He said he's not a politician and he sure isn't acting like one. A  politician knows what his lies are and why he's telling them. Trump? Maybe not so much. Promise kept. Give the man a gold star.

Okay, gallows humor aside, yes, he has a lot of power in his hands, but he isn't god (as much as he might have believed that that was what the presidency was all about). Yes, he can do a lot with executive orders and similar devices. But American presidents have done stupid things before. Trump is just the most attention-grabbing president in a good long while. Lets not overrate the guy. He does a lot of stuff I would call bullcrap, but that's not the end of the world.

Deporting Mexicans? Been done. It was called Operation Wetback.

Racial profiling? How about internment camps for Japanese Americans?

Wars? umm... Vietnam, the Panama invasion, Iraq, Afghanistan.

And yet - the world is still in one piece today. We all are. Yes, Trump is perhaps the craziest shit that has happened in a long history of shit, but shit has happened before. Trump will not end the world in a literal sense. (And if he does it could be over so soon we will hardly notice it).

Am I okay with Trump? No, I sure am not. But if we let the guy scare us so much that we cower in fear of his next tweet, he has already won.

The Philippines is surviving Rodrigo Duterte, and that guy is several levels beyond Trump in terms of extremism. While Trump as president deeply bothers me, I have confidence that so long as people pursue issues of importance to them and stay involved, talk to people, try to avoid echo chambers, and press for reason, try to bridge the divide, preparing for the House elections in 2018 (I think it's 2018 that some of them are up for re-election), perhaps even talking about good candidates in 2020 (my personal hope for 2020 is to see the emergence of more moderate liberal viewpoints & a candidate for those views) while navigating and mitigating the problems with this presidency as able, then people will get through this.

I agree that the USA has survived awful things before, and I have confidence it will continue to do so. Fear shouldn't lead to silence and cowing, and more importantly, it should not lead to panic. It should lead to action, but in a positive & constructive way. If I see things on a local level I don't like that I know are influenced by the current political climate in the nation as a whole, I know I can go to City Hall and talk to people or even just talk directly to my town's Mayor (benefits of living in a small town!). Or I can write to Senators or House Reps. I can donate money to causes that matter to me as I'm able--just to name few things I know I'll be doing in the upcoming months.

But yes, overall, in my rambling way, I'm saying I agree with your sentiments.

[Silk]

I'd be careful about using Salon as a news source on Trump, as those are the guys that during his time as president elect, were plastering him with "Do you know where your bombs are dropping President Trump?" As if it was his grand master scheme for the last 4+ years (hint, it wasn't it was everyones sweetheart Obama).

[Trigon]

I see no reason not to use Salon, they are a reputable source for most things. Perhaps you prefer The NY Times: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/americas/nikki-haley-united-nations.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

[Vekseid]

I only see this kind of support for violence coming from one direction: the left.

Richard Spencer has called for the eventual extermination of all black people. Everywhere.

Breitbart has an article echoing Nazi propaganda that suggests executing scientists.

I can go to various right-wing parts of the Internet and find groups calling for the extermination of all gays.

The extermination of all trans* people.

The extermination of all Hispanics.

And of course, as mentioned, Jews.

Beliefs on Asians are more mixed. Some just say there are 'too many'.

I am curious why you feel people should not be alarmed at these developments, Insomnancer.

Honestly, I don't see much evidence of any left-wing instigators actually inside the United States. The Black Bloc (who also rioted against Obama) is ridiculously tiny in comparison to the overall movement building against Trump. By like, four orders of magnitude. Possibly five if this shit keeps up.



On a different topic, I am seriously getting tired of this thread's title.

[Trigon]

On a different topic, I am seriously getting tired of this thread's title.

I agree, it should be called Down with "Emperor" Trump!

[Verasaille]

Why not start a new thread with a better title? How about Trumpelthinskin?

[MiraMirror]

I vote for the Angry Tangerine, personally.