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Author Topic: Polyamory and Me  (Read 10407 times)

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Online Oniya

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2016, 12:09:04 AM »
Just as an addendum there is a term, that I believe originated in the poly-community, known as 'compersion':  the feeling of happiness you get when others are happy.  It's sort of the exact opposite of jealousy, which is when you feel upset when others are happy.  A triad doesn't need to be sexually 'linked' (i.e., all possible couples having sex with each other at some point), although a truly stable triad will generally have each member feeling compersion for the other two.

(Just like in all relationships, there are times when one might not, but positives dominating the negatives is pretty much a touchstone.)

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2016, 08:10:13 AM »
Just as an addendum there is a term, that I believe originated in the poly-community, known as 'compersion':  the feeling of happiness you get when others are happy.  It's sort of the exact opposite of jealousy, which is when you feel upset when others are happy.  A triad doesn't need to be sexually 'linked' (i.e., all possible couples having sex with each other at some point), although a truly stable triad will generally have each member feeling compersion for the other two.

(Just like in all relationships, there are times when one might not, but positives dominating the negatives is pretty much a touchstone.)

Oh my, Oniya!  Marvelous, darling!!!!   I love how you have stated this !! :P

What you have said here, about compersion, could not be more true, and is key to any kind IMHO of externally-giving social environment or social consciousness you may have towards others.  Compersion, the happiness and pride that one feels to see your own closest friends, or "peeps", being happy together around you, is the basis not only of really good poly structures, in whatever dimension of geometry, but the key element in even conventional vanilla binary pairings where the two members just naturally become good parents to kids too.  It is that positive and prideful feeling that you get to see other members of your local tribe, in that case your family, becoming and then staying happy in their interpersonal dealings with one another, right there at your doorstep in the family home.  It is a quality of you, actually, that is a basic part of your personality, and is a necessary prerequisite for a good "poly" polygonal structure to work and remain stable.

Siblings from a large and happy stable family, for example, armed with plenty of good positive family experiences to outbalance the otherwise usual negative sibling rivalries and such, are generally more easily suited and have a higher natural degree of compersive ability, as a whole, than do single children, or the classic "only-child" family product.  In general, of course, and only as I have seen and observed personally over time myself.

In my case,  I count myself exceedingly fortunate the this Universe equipped me with a strong and abiding natural tendency toward compersion, or pride in seeing others around me happy, and I draw energy from helping to make it so.  That makes me the opposite of isolated, a loner, self-centered or self-serving, or narcissistic, I suppose.

Instead, I naturally feel compersion as my most comfortable state of social equilibrium with those around me.  It is what always powered me through high school and college as outgoing, friendly, the life of the party sorta, a leader in on-campus social settings and "X-ities" social membership groups designed to bind students together into a social structure to last a lifetime.

It is what made me a natural nurturing parent, IMHO, and it is regrettably, the very thing that I see so many who live lonely and bitter, self-serving and self-centeredly solitary lives lack for the most part.

That is not to say anyone in our quint is perfect, good dog, I most certainly am not!!!  I too have little jealousies that creep in occasionally, all seeded by tiny insecurities left over from childhood.  So does everyone else, to some degree.  But mine are just that - tiny by comparison to the confidence I have in the promises and representations of the closed poly quint in which I am fortunate to be involved at this moment, and yes, we all five live together in the Center City area of Philadelphia and are all quite happy in any combination of sexual or other lighter play scenarios.  It means that none of us ever have to go elsewhere for open compassion and acceptance, company and mentorship, and mutual support, or go anywhere alone unless we want to, and there is that sense of freedom at being able to do just that.  It is an extension of what I loved about college, which was always having "peeps" around to hang out with and do things.  The entire TV sitcom "friends" was based upon a similar compersion between the primary characters, although there the sexual possibilities and events were watered down almost to the point of triviality to remain rated "G" to PG" in each of their sitcom scripts.

For me, my closed poly quint is exactly the same, like the "friends" TV show, except that among the five of us anything goes as far as physical, as well as social, settings and expressions.

There is a true sense of shared responsibility and concern for not either cheapening or violating the unity and preference we all feel, the "Trust Quotient" as it is called, among the five members, in that we do not go have relationships outside the quint, anymore than a binary married hetero couple would ordinarily go have relationships outside the marriage.  There, the structure provides a stupid-level of protection for either of the two parties being lazy, slothful, indulgent and selfish, jealous, and more, and yet it endures.

We feel the closed poly quint takes even more work than a conventional marriage, in terms of effort of its members to regulate behaviors according to the agreed-upon ideal and relationship rules we have self-imposed, but the positive results and benefits for us all are worth far more than the added effort. 

There is nothing like a sexy foursome or fivesome among true committed friends who are just as concerned, compassionate, loving and outgoing, and providing of emotional and relationship support and commitment towards one another, as are the best binary married couples.  We just have more interesting and varied options for sexual and social combinations that is all, and a built-in big family feeling all the time ")!!!

Yes, we are all five madly in love with the other four, each one of us.  Seriously, and sincerely! .....

Love to you, Oniya, All The Love !!!!!!

Elyse  :-*

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2016, 12:34:16 PM »
Just wanted to stop by with my support for the amazing Mint, and all the visitors of this blog. Really warms my heart to see the subject garnering attention in a positive light. Thank you, princess.

Online MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2016, 10:29:09 PM »
This is impossible to answer.  At present, bigamy is illegal in the United States.  You cannot legally have more than one spouse.

And another good question is, how would it work to have legally more than one spouse in the system we have.  Given that marriage is used for everything from who your insurance companies will cover to where your benefits will go to, mixing in more spouses can be beneficial or lead to system abuse.   What about the guy with ten wives so he can cover all of them and their kids on his insurance?  Or the person who claims it to get credit for a bunch of kids for one reason or another.   I donít know that Iím going to focus a lot on this subject right now, mostly because I am first and foremost intending to write about my personal growth and journey, but I do appreciate these types of questions and also that they spark good discussion about polyís place in the monogamous world when it comes to functioning in the legal system. 

So more will probably come. 

So here are some questions...

When/how do you think is the ideal time to identify yourself as polyamorous to a potential romance? Assuming of course you didn't meet in a situation where that status could be assumed. I have to imagine it's a fine line to balance.

I think you would need to do this before any type of commitment - even as simple as letís go on a date - is made.  A person may choose not to date you if youíre poly, because that isnít something they can handle, and by denying them this information, youíre taking away their right to make an informed choice.  Does this sound easy?  I donít know. Iím sure itís not.  But at the same time, if youíre poly, youíre looking to be with someone who is going to accept that side of you.   If you come out and say youíre poly, you have other relationships from the start and they drop you like a rock, it wasn'tí going to work anyway.   So for me, I will likely if that situation comes up be up front from the start. 

Quote
Unrelated, have you had any experiences or reactions to outing yourself that have been unequivocally negative? And looking back at them do you think there's a way they could have been handled that would have been better?

I havenít outed myself enough yet to have one of these thankfully.  So far everyone Iíve told has been accepting, but a good percentage of my real life doesnít know. My sister and my mother Iíve told, but beyond that, none of my RL friends or family is aware of this side of me, both the bisexual (although plenty of friends have seen the make-out-with-women-drunk-Mint so thatís probably no secret) or the poly.

I suppose like any information you share about yourself, you have to consider the audience who is receiving it and what their reaction is going to be.   How you deliver the message is probably as important as what youíre saying.   If, for example, we decide to tell our friends, weíd need to do it in a way that first explains that we are still happy together and that isnít changing, and that weíre making choices that are for our happiness.   That our decision also doesnít Impact that person or their relationships with us either.   

I mean, if you start out with ďweíre poly and seeing other peopleĒ vs, ďWe love each other and want to tell you about how our relationship is growing.Ē it probably sets that stage a bit differently. But Iíve never really had to face that.  My sister and I are always open anyway and love and accept each other and really like I said she was not surprised.   My mother is a bit prude and struggles to talk about things but she accepts and manages and sometimes I make her listen anyway. 

So I suppose when / if I do have another coming out, Iíll blog about that too, each and every one of them, and hope that provides some insight! 


If I may, reading your first entry (which made me read more), it sounded a lot like me! I am married but have almost always been in another side relationship. I love my husband. I am crazy about him. He is my best friend and I don't ever want to break up. HOWEVER, I never feel 100% myself without another relationship. He and I have had threesomes (and moresomes) but for me, it wasn't (isn't) just about the sex. I have developed deep feelings for other people while still being married and in love with my husband. One relationship lasted over seven years, and my current side relationship has been over a year. BUT I am NOT open with my husband. I just cheat and oh how I hate that word, but the semantics of it is the truth.

I also hate that word and hated that word and even when I did cheat in the real world, it just never seemed to really match the situation I was in.  Regardless, it was dishonest and it hurt someone I cared about because I wasnít being honest with them, and when they found out they felt betrayed.   I would say that it took almost two years to really truly work to understanding the emotions behind me making that Ďmistakeí and why I did it and what had really broken inside me to lead to that.   

If I could go back, I would not make the same choice. I donít regret the choice, because Iím still here today where I need to be, but I would have done it differently.   

Quote
I never find myself longing to be with my side boyfriend over my husband. (Nor does he wish to end his marriage for me). I can, for lack of a better term, compartmentalize each relationship. I can live and love fully inside one relationship and then live and love fully the other. BUT Because I am not open and honest with my husband (primary relationship), I just feel like a guilty cheater :( I know I could never even bring up polyamory to my husband. Not everyone can understand how I can love two people without one being less of something (or more) than the other.

Anyway, I just wanted to jump in here and chime in since it sounds like FINALLY someone understands where I am coming from.

I carried that guilt all my life, and yet parts of me never felt guilty.   I didnít feel bad about what I was doing moreso that I knew he wouldnít like it, or wouldnít like not knowing about it.   I didnít feel like being with others and loving others was wrong.  But I can say I knew that not telling him about it was wrong.   

The problem is that scary line right there:  I know heíll never understand.  Iím afraid to bring it up because he wonít understand.  I really truly thought that too. Even after I told him I thought that for a long time.  And that leads back to my post about the castle youíve built you still love dearly and want even if you want some other castles too.   Time and effort have gone into that primary relationship and you donít want to lose all that.   




Piper: I can't say I agree with you, but you're the one who has to live your life (not me or anyone else). It seems like this has hurt you in a way, and would hurt or destroy your marriage if your husband knew. When I say hurting you it's not because you're giving free rein to it. It's because you're in a situation where you know it wouldn't be accepted by your husband. That must create a weight on your heart, as well as your conscience. Why is it something you couldn't talk to your husband about (in terms of future possibilities)? I know he might ask about the past but is it just that or is it something you already know he'd be firmly against? Maybe it's not as impossible an option as it seems. In other words, maybe you could dig your way out. If he means so much to you, he doesn't deserve to be cheated on. However, as you've been with other people together, maybe he wouldn't be as against this as it seems.

I will agree that itís hurting you too, because you arenít being free to be yourself.  Like I was, youíre living in a closet, keeping your secrets because itís easier than not.  But I also completely understand it, and know that moving out of the closet is scary and hard, and cutting off the other relationships is impossible, will lead to making you unhappy and cause your first relationship to suffer anyway.  Been there.  Done that.  Dealt with it all.    That fear of losing the one you love is as powerful as the need to be free to have those relationships.  And they battle in you and keep you feeling caged and bound during the whole of your life.

And Amber, I would say after reading GMCs story it isnít so easy to just come out.  You highly risk losing the one you love in the manner that happened there.  And while in the end that might result in both parties being happier, that change is scary for the poly person to imagine.   Weíre scared to hurt our loved one with the truth.  Scared to be rejected by them for the truth.  Scared of anger or blame or accusations because they donít understand us. 


Coming out isnít easy. 

That being said, I think itís worth considering Piper, and if you want to talk to me my box is always open.   Your guilt isnít healthy for you either and if he ever did find out, you may lose him whereas you wouldnít if you were honest.  Itís such a hard place to be in.  I know that.  I still have plenty of secrets tucked away in places I think they should stay forever.    I also recommend the More Than Two book for you as well (linked in my first post).  It has a lot of thoughtful questions that help you think through these very concepts.



And with that, Mint is blogged out.   I have a post to go back and edit, and the following amazing people to comment to still: 
  • LadyKrys
  • beastlover
  • Timeless
  • Oniya


Just wanted to stop by with my support for the amazing Mint, and all the visitors of this blog. Really warms my heart to see the subject garnering attention in a positive light. Thank you, princess.

Thank you sweetheart.   Itís my every intention to provide a place where people can learn more about polyamory either for themselves or for someone they know, care about or love, or just to become  more open-minded and informed on yet another alternative way of loving.  Iím glad youíre enjoying it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 10:37:47 PM by Mintprincess »

Online CrownedSun

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2016, 12:17:27 PM »
This is an amazing thread, and I just wanted to say that I relate to so much of what I read here,-- poly myself, for the record, and I might talk more about that in another post since I have some insights even if I haven't actually had an actual poly relationship outside of online and even then only for a few (glorious) weeks,-- I actually had a lengthy-ish story to share but I deleted it because it wouldn't be appropriate to air here.

For numerous reasons.

But, I wanted to thank Mint for posting this and everyone else for sharing their own stories. :D <3 <3

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2016, 06:56:59 PM »
Minty, darling! I'm going to be reading through here, because I am very much poly! I just haven't had a decent chance. But I'm so happy to see this! :D Thanks for sharing! :-) *hugs*

Online MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2016, 08:47:12 PM »
This is an amazing thread, and I just wanted to say that I relate to so much of what I read here,-- poly myself, for the record, and I might talk more about that in another post since I have some insights even if I haven't actually had an actual poly relationship outside of online and even then only for a few (glorious) weeks,-- I actually had a lengthy-ish story to share but I deleted it because it wouldn't be appropriate to air here.

For numerous reasons.

But, I wanted to thank Mint for posting this and everyone else for sharing their own stories. :D <3 <3
  Thank you so much! I would love to hear whatever parts of your story are appropriate that you wish to share and glad that my own words are so insightful!   As an aside to that, most of my online relationships didn't last long either (a few months or so), which I attribute a lot to not knowing who I was or what I needed.

I will be (I keep saying this! Need more time!) blogging about the dynamics of a trio from my perspective and experience and the insights I have into poly from that. 

Regardless, Thank you for the support!!! And the <3s. I love <3s!


Minty, darling! I'm going to be reading through here, because I am very much poly! I just haven't had a decent chance. But I'm so happy to see this! :D Thanks for sharing! :-) *hugs*
  I had that feeling about you from reading your own blog and a lot of the things you've talked about!  Welcome to my blog and I canot wait to hear if you have insights too! Your own pieces are such a delight to read, I imagine what you say about poly will be the same.

<3



#Halloween  #exhausted

Offline beastlover

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2016, 09:01:22 PM »
Oh dear beloved Minty!!! I admire your incredible self so very much!!!  I just HAD to say that, reading your most recent posts here.   :-*

All my love for you Minty,  O:)

Elyse  ❤️

Online CrownedSun

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2016, 09:13:05 PM »
  Thank you so much! I would love to hear whatever parts of your story are appropriate that you wish to share and glad that my own words are so insightful!   As an aside to that, most of my online relationships didn't last long either (a few months or so), which I attribute a lot to not knowing who I was or what I needed.

I will be (I keep saying this! Need more time!) blogging about the dynamics of a trio from my perspective and experience and the insights I have into poly from that. 

Regardless, Thank you for the support!!! And the <3s. I love <3s!

I am a never-ending source of <3's, so no worries there.

One thing that I can say, about stable poly trio's, is just-- I decided, not all that long ago, that that was in many ways my perfect ideal probably-doesn't-exist-in-real-life relationship. Specifically, I would absolutely adore being the third in a stable married-couple's MMF poly relationship. Like, that's the kind of relationship that I dream of,-- not just being the guy on the side for the wife, though, but actually being an integral and important part of the relationship as a whole. Loved and cherished; appreciated; -- at a minimum, friends with the husband, though honestly I'd prefer a more sexual element there too. The kind of thing where all three of us can get together and express our love for each other.

It's just the kind of thing that's been on the periphery of my awareness for a while, something that I knew I was interested in,-- I've got a lot of casual interest in swingers, "hotwives", and so on,-- but it wasn't that kind of transitory casual side-relationship that really appealed to me and that I fantasized about but something a lot more meaningful and even 'permanent'. (As permanent as anything is, anyway.) It was kind of a revelation when I realized that was what I dreamed of, more than the idea of marriage itself or monogamy or anything like that but just being a part of something and making it stronger and better.

<3 <3

Anyway, that's a few rough thoughts on the subject from me, in any event. :D

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2016, 09:25:37 PM »
As someone in a poly triad/trio that has two guys and myself I can say that they exist. :) For what it's worth.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2016, 09:26:16 PM »
Oh my, almost forgot, I should have known too, that with this astute and so honestly expressive and insightful blog concerning self-revelation and self-examination of our truest inner selves - that you would attract all the very best folks here on elliquiy too, in beautiful, resonant harmony ... of spirit and heart ! 

Like lovely Penny about whom I care a great deal, I see, and Sun too!!!  Oh, and so many others too, wow!

Minty, I feel humbled and incredibly honored that in the company of these kinds of folks here, that you even tolerate someone as lowly as me here too  :-[ .... but it just makes me love you even more, beautiful Princess !!!  Thank you  O:)

Love,

Elyse ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ <-...well you DID say you loved hearts ... ;D

Online CrownedSun

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2016, 09:51:06 PM »
As someone in a poly triad/trio that has two guys and myself I can say that they exist. :) For what it's worth.

I didn't wanna go into TOO much detail, considering that the blogs are public and all, but rest assured that my poly trio-fantasy is totally unrealistic and unlikely to exist in real life. <3

Probably not IMPOSSIBLE, though.

Oh my, almost forgot, I should have known too, that with this astute and so honestly expressive and insightful blog concerning self-revelation and self-examination of our truest inner selves - that you would attract all the very best folks here on elliquiy too, in beautiful, resonant harmony ... of spirit and heart ! 

Like lovely Penny about whom I care a great deal, I see, and Sun too!!!  Oh, and so many others too, wow!

Minty, I feel humbled and incredibly honored that in the company of these kinds of folks here, that you even tolerate someone as lowly as me here too  :-[ .... but it just makes me love you even more, beautiful Princess !!!  Thank you  O:)

Love,

Elyse ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ <-...well you DID say you loved hearts ... ;D

Hehehe, Beasty, you are absolutely adorable. <3

(Also, damn, that quad-thing that you described earlier in the thread sounded very very nice.)

None of this lowly stuff, though, you're totally one of the 'very best folks' what was attracted to this blog. :D But, you're very kind to say that none the less.

*kiss on the cheek*

Here's some more hearts: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2016, 02:03:12 PM »
*sneaks into the blog to wave to Minty*

Mainly I wanted to say that it's been insightful to read over your blog here, and emotional as well. I imagine like many in this world who are conditioned and traditionally see singular (1x1) relationships as the norm, what Poly is like for instances where it is successful and does thrive. I've certainly been inundated time and again with the ideas that it is wrong, selfish, impossible, and so on and so forth. Which I never fully believed myself, as how could there be definitions for a thing like that, if there weren't people out there who had been successful at it to the point it needed definition.

As well, as someone contemplating whether I should make one of these blogs myself and perhaps open up a bit more to this community on E in general through it, I want to say I think you are very brave and also proud to have written all of this out here and for inviting people to express their questions and thoughts as well.

Not to mention, I think you are brave as well for going for what makes you happy, knowing what that is, and having the courage to admit it. Through personal experience, I know how daunting that can be, as silly as it may sound. I hope everything works out splendidly for you :)

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2016, 06:24:26 PM »
So here are some questions...

When/how do you think is the ideal time to identify yourself as polyamorous to a potential romance? Assuming of course you didn't meet in a situation where that status could be assumed. I have to imagine it's a fine line to balance.


Unrelated, have you had any experiences or reactions to outing yourself that have been unequivocally negative? And looking back at them do you think there's a way they could have been handled that would have been better?

Mint asked me to chime in on my thoughts so....

When/how has changed a lot for me over time. Originally I was sort of the get to know a person first, see if there's anything there and then broach the subject but that's changed a lot over time. Now I'm straight forward about it right up front, though that's not even in a potential romance way. I happen to live a life where I don't need to hide that I am in a relationship with two amazing men, at least not most of the time. My parents know, my friends know, people I interact with for longer than just a passing moment tend to find out. It's such a part of who I am now, and if someone can't accept that, as a friend or a potential lover, than that's not someone I want in my life.

Back when I was more reserved about it, it was fine being friendly but the moment it would edge into flirting I'd talk to my partners at the time and figure out a way to proceed. Granted I'm still pretty oblivious, as I was then, so I didn't always catch on. I've found that being honest never hurts though, you might see it as something that 'ruins' the potential for something but I've found in observation and practice that the earlier it's disclosed the more heartache you avoid.

I've been surprisingly lucky with my coming out experiences - my parents who are very Southern in some ways didn't even blink an eye, though they were more surprised by the pansexual bit. Granted I think it was so easy because my mother is very much a free spirit and we have a relationship that sometimes leaves me being the one that's uncomfortable with details revealed. But those awkward moments are worth being able to talk to her about my struggles in my poly and D/s relationships and get some really good advice. I've had a few friends be slightly off put, but most of them take the stance of "Just live your life."

The worst experience I've had in being poly was with my first boyfriend outside of my established relationship. He was with me because he wanted me, but the fact that I was poly and not intending to leave my now ex for him resulted in said boyfriend getting super drunk, going to the ER and asking why I couldn't love him enough.

With my current partners I know that it was really hard coming out as poly for my Mister to his family, they are really religious (my family is so not) and it's frowned on. It was rough, and they don't really approve but even then it's more of a "We love you, and we will always love you and we aren't going to talk about this more" stance.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2016, 06:31:49 PM »
Firstly and foremost, I just want to apologize in advance if I offend anybody with my question. I have to admit that I'm definitely not knowledgeable when it comes to polyamory nor would I consider myself to be one. But I am mostly just very curious and would like to ask for anybody's opinion or even experience, but had anybody ever been in a relationship where all the trio, as in like say yourself, your partner and your other partner are actually in love with one another?

I'm mostly curious because I can see that mostly who had posted here are just mainly themselves as a polyamorous person but none who really mention about their partner actually loving their other partner and such?

Once again, I'm definitely not knowledgeable when it comes to this topic. But nonetheless, this blog had been rather enlightening and I give my thanks to those who share their own experience, emotions and their struggles.

Like Mint I'm in a poly triad as well, Timeless.

It took a lot of time for this particular dynamic to form, I was with my Mister several years back, eventually started dating my Captain as well. Mister and I broke up for a period of time, eventually got back together and then the same thing happened between Captain and I. The three of us have had other people/partners in our lives as well. It was just this past Valentine's that we had our first threesome date -- the guys took me to an amazing museum exhibit I was dying to see and we had a lovely dinner out and I got the biggest stuffed unicorn and tulips. I'm dating both of them, and both of them are dating each other as well. Mister has another girlfriend, and Captain has a lover he sees a few times a year who's a very close friend.

It isn't always easy, but it's very much worth it. The three of us are actually looking at moving in together in the next few months which is super exciting. I work to always be very supportive of their other relationships, and of their relationship together, and they do the same with me. It's just a matter of communication and love.

Online MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2016, 05:26:51 PM »
It's such a part of who I am now, and if someone can't accept that, as a friend or a potential lover, than that's not someone I want in my life.

Thank you Wisti <3    And I really love this line right here. I'm not there yet, but I want to be someday.   I want to be able to stand up and say this is who I am and if you want to be in life you will love me for who I am.   


So wow! Itís been a really long two three? weeks for me.   And due to events that have felt like a that bus that ran over the chick in final destination, this blog kinda sat on the back burner.   Iíve wanted to write. Iíve wanted to reply. I have so much to reply to, so much to say, so many off-here questions to post up with my answers and itís all quite a jumble in my head.   And Iíll get there and please keep the questions and stories and thoughts coming!  <---- wrote that a week ago too! 

But I am mostly just very curious and would like to ask for anybody's opinion or even experience, but had anybody ever been in a relationship where all the trio, as in like say yourself, your partner and your other partner are actually in love with one another?

I found a really good picture the other day that I want to share. 



What this says to me, and one of pieces of our trio we talk about is that the couples on the outside of the triangle have to be strong for the whole triangle to be strong.  I really like the second picture though.  What it says to me isn't that you are responsible for building the relationship between the other two or mediating, or fixing things, but that you are responsible for supporting the relationship between the other two.  When they need time, you give it.  When there are problems you support them both equally.  You feel and share joy that they are in love and and couple.  And if all three people are doing that for all three other couples the whole triad grows stronger.

The last picture speaks of communication.   To have shared value and purpose, you have to communicate. Openly.  Honestly.  About everything.   So a successful triad is founded on the ability to talk about the good and the bad with all three people and share in the responsibility of ensuring you're all going in the same direction.

For me, a trio has been the most fulfilling relationship I've ever had. 

Just as an addendum there is a term, that I believe originated in the poly-community, known as 'compersion':  the feeling of happiness you get when others are happy.  It's sort of the exact opposite of jealousy, which is when you feel upset when others are happy.  A triad doesn't need to be sexually 'linked' (i.e., all possible couples having sex with each other at some point), although a truly stable triad will generally have each member feeling compersion for the other two.

(Just like in all relationships, there are times when one might not, but positives dominating the negatives is pretty much a touchstone.)

I feel you have to have this for a triad to work, but I think even an triad there are going to be moments of jealousy.  But as I spoke before, there is healthy jealousy and unhealthy jealousy.  There is jealousy because your own needs aren't being met, or something is very wrong in your relationship, and there is jealousy because you are feeling insecure.

My opinion on emotions however is that all feelings are valid.  All actions are not.

But I do think that if you don't feel happiness that your partners are happy together too, then a triad (and perhaps poly) will be a struggle for you.   I feel a lot of joy when I know my partners are happy, when they share something with me that they did together and enjoyed or just that they got to spend time together they need.   And I know that they feel the same way about me and my two relationships. 

I wrote more than I planned to write, and I expect sadly to be kinda busy over the next week, but I got started and just started writing.  I feel like there is so much to say and discuss on all these ideas and I can't wait to do more! <3







Online SweetSerenade

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2016, 03:23:59 PM »
How to start things off...

Thank you Minty for being such an amazing writer, and blogger, when it comes to your journey on Poly. I returned from a long absence on E - to find so many interesting things have popped up.

Like you I spent time in a singular relationship, and then discovered my poly nature. Of course I discovered poly when I was quite young, like sixteen, but that was also in my "I think I only like girls" phase. Surprisingly my teenage years, while I did not have the same teenage years that many did, were actually really formative towards the woman I would become. I discovered my sexuality because of my teenage years, and I discovered my relationship standings because of it.

I would generally offer 'open' relationships to my partners, my rules was "I want to know them, I want to approve of them." That was how it was for years, because I was constantly belittled for 'loving many people'.

Enter my adult years and the relationships I started forming there.

My Full Poly realization came with the man that is currently my husband. We are open and poly, meaning we are open to both love and sexual relationships outside of our marriage. Our personal dynamic is very... interesting. We saw it as a way to find people to fulfill some of the needs that we ourselves could not complete for our partners. We did not see it as a negative, we saw it as a positive. We are open to my family, but not open to his.

Now on to the interesting dynamics that have developed in a year.

The Kakashi that I started crushing on April almost two years ago... Admitted he was seriously interested in me (back in July). We spent a weekend together in a hotel room with my husband, and in one night I got more physical touching from that person (I say person because he is gender fluid, but is male dominant usually) than in the year or so (at that point) we had been together. But I understood their past and gave them full control of the pace of the relationship.

My husband is friends with Kakashi, but not interested in Kakashi in 'that way'.

Kakashi is in an open/poly relationship, where their partner knows there is a few people from 'before' but doesn't feel a need to know that the relationships are happy. They are secure (the partner of Kakashi's is gender fluid as well) in themeselves and relationship to a point they really don't care that much.

Now on to the next stage.

During this summer I started up on an online academy, got closer to someone I used to know from another online academy. She was in a relationship with another person from the online academy, and they are sort of engaged to be engaged. He lives in Brazil, she lives in the US. I ended up falling for both of them. Now mind you, I consider myself Sapiosexual with Heteromantic tendencies. I had a discussion with her, recently where I tried to explain that how I love women is not the same as how I love 'males'. I am generally not as romantic or sexual with females, though I can gain those attachments. It's not something I can change about me. So the dynamic for a bit there was Me with my husband as Primary, and my relationship with Kakashi doesn't really have a 'title' but we are both very caring for each other. Then added in these two new people.

Hubby starts talking to the couple, and gets close to the girl. Ends up falling for her, her falling for him. So My husband is involved with the female I am involved with. But not involved with the male of the couple, while I am involved with both.


So that's where I am sitting with my relationship stuff. I'm also trying to figure out how my relationship chart would even look at this point... XD

Sorry for rambling.


Overall I have had a working Poly relationship with my husband for over six years, with almost three of those years being with us married.

Online MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2016, 04:39:27 PM »
I am still enjoying all your stories that you post! I'm sorry that my life has been so crazy busy I haven't found the energy for good replies and more blogging.  But I will.  And I'm here.   And you all can always PM me if you have questions <3

Offline Exaelitus

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2016, 10:06:02 PM »
I don't mean to sound as if I am attempting to challenge your view--and I highly doubt mere text on a screen from a random stranger on the internet would be possible to do so, but to explain myself and ask as candidly as possible, I was raised and spent most of my life in San Francisco. I've seen the poly, the pan, the trans, alt and whatever things you can imagine, I can come up with a situation I have witnessed, known someone who does it, or maybe even discretely experienced; I consider myself pretty open. I've seen all sorts of relationships and how they function, both the good and the bad of polyamory and polygamy, swinging--as I said, name it, and I have some personalized view or running commentary.

As for my own background, I am monogamous, and legitimately bisexual--which often surprises people when I tell them this...yet, after that long introduction, my question regards the polyamorous ones who subtly imply derogatory thoughts of monogamous couples rather than simply chalking it up to the way an individual is wired--just as there are analytical thinkers and artistic thinkers, one can be taught to think the opposite way and receive positive enforcement to fit the mold, yet possess a natural affinity to the other; much like what you have described concerning the unhappiness of being monogamous. However, after experiencing monogamy and deciding that was not who you are, implications remain for those who it is for. Associating monogamy with a negative connotation with emotions such as 'jealousy', 'insecurity', and 'possession'; yet referring to polygamy to positive personality traits such as 'welcoming', 'inclusive', 'selfless'.

This is something common I have seen with many who are content with polyamory; is this directly the byproduct of concealing the nature of your relationship to avoid scrutiny, or possibly the rejection of some potentials who decided poly was not for them? Is this unintentional, and thought to be the best way to explain yourself? Or is there a consideration reserved for those who are strictly monogamous as being legitimately negative/selfish and merely conforming to the standards set by society? Is it self judgement based on the memory of what you were versus how you are presently?

I guess in short, is this association purposefully a subtle indication of how you think, or is this an instance of misuse causing unintended perceptions?

By asking you directly, I am not intending to sound confrontational. It is simply a question based on what I view as a trend, but I find it easier to ask a stranger on the internet rather than a friend to avoid damage controlling a misunderstanding and I am interested to find out what you have to say about this.

Online Oniya

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2016, 12:13:23 PM »
As a random stranger who identifies as poly, I personally accept that some people are naturally monogamous.  No shame in it.  However, before I got married, a very wise woman told me that there were three things that we should be sure that we agreed on - how money is handled, whether or not we wanted kids, and whether or not we were going to be poly or monogamous.

If you're going to enter into a legal relationship with someone (one that requires documents to get into and out of), these are the sorts of things that should be discussed before it comes down to both people being unhappy.  Yes, it's possible to 'learn' to live the other way, but one should be aware of what they are signing up for and enter it with at least a genuine desire to do so.

As far as 'rejection of some potentials who decided poly was not for them':  I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'potentials', but going back to my 'three questions' anecdote, let me ask this in return.  If a man or woman had made the decision that they didn't want children, wouldn't it be reasonable for them to turn down partners that had expressed a great desire in having children?  Would it be fair to either party if they made a commitment to each other, knowing that one of them is going to end up in an undesired situation (either a child-desiring partner deprived of having kids, or a child-free partner having one or more children.) 

Offline Exaelitus

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2016, 01:45:52 PM »
I believe you may have misunderstood the nature of my question by selecting to focus on a sentance length detail rather than the main idea, but your input is still valued. I think you were referring to this portion of what I said:

Quote
...individual is wired--just as there are analytical thinkers and artistic thinkers, one can be taught to think the opposite way and receive positive enforcement to fit...

This is not contesting the point that you made, and yes, ideally you want to make sure the same sentiments are shared about money, children, and sex are the three main deal breakers...but in no way am I stating one should go against the grain of what they feel to be their own nature. But my point was to question more often than not the poly commentary of the mono opinion--the belief that the notion of singular life long relationships are merely machinations imposed by society and unmatural to the way humans really are. Often it is expressed numerous times with references toward 'the institution of marriage', or imposed by religion, or an ingrained notion nurtured by society. Such views are used, even expressed in this thread, yet people simply exist the way they are, and I think the reality is there is more content to an adult human being to chalk them up to 'simply following something because the rest of the world says so'. Collectively we like to say that about 'the sheeple', but individually, no one ever thinks that to be the case about themselves. That was more or less what this sentance was gently referring to; the idea of poly= freedom, mono= controlled.

It was not meant to say if you want children and your partner doesnt then marry them and make them change their mind until they learn to love it. But yes, much like mono or poly, some people do inevitably decide to conform to one way or the other, and can will themselves to get by in that way; for example the mono husband who quietly fantasizes about a threesome but understands the consequences for attempting to achieve it, or the wife who badly does not want to be alone so she staves off the idea of a divorce by turning a blind eye to his mistress. It is a preference, not a need, and concealing displeasure for preferences is totally doable in the long term.

Speaking of "potentials", I am not scrutinizing being open and direct with a prospective partner, I am asking if the perceived bitter undertones when describing: poly = loving, mono = selfish, are the effect of criticism from monogamist individuals who reject the relationship because it does not align to their needs, if it is resentment for an existing memory of a mono partner choosing or attempting to exit upon the discovery that their preferences do not coincide, or is it a secret pleasure to feel a higher status over another person by arranging it in an 'us versus them' verbal picture?

To put it as directly as possible, I am asking what is the source of this implied resentment and if there is none, then why choose to express your insight in that way?


Online Oniya

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2016, 04:00:47 PM »
Well, I have to say that when anyone starts referring to others as 'sheeple', they lose a lot of standing in my eyes, whether we share a similar lifestyle or not.  People are people.  Poly people that sneer at mono people as being somehow 'less' are pretty close-minded in my opinion - as are those who sneer at poly people for being 'promiscuous'.

I will say that a lot of people simply don't realize that there are more options than 'what the rest of the world says'.  When I was younger, I thought my religious choices were limited to Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or Muslim.  Atheism, agnosticism, and the rest of the thousands of religious beliefs around the world weren't even mentioned.  There are many people who are stunned to find out that they aren't limited to heterosexual relationships. 

Now, the examples you gave about the 'man with the threesome fantasy' and the 'woman overlooking affairs' start to fall into a question of what the rules are in their relationship.  Note that I didn't say 'society's rules', although they may coincide.  In both cases, the person seeking an 'other' (the man with the fantasy, and the one actually having affairs) is not taking their partner into account.  The man with the fantasy assumes that his partner would be irate - and maybe they would be.  The man having affairs doesn't care for his partner's input (or at least thinks that he's 'getting away with it'.)  As for it being doable in the long-term, the wife of the man having the affairs is going to be living with a lot of resentment - hardly 'fair' - and would be much happier with someone else, or even alone (despite her hypothesized desperation to avoid that).  As for the man not acting on his fantasy - well, that would depend a lot on why he has the fantasy.  Is it because there is a specific person that he wants to be with?  Or is it the stereotype of having two generic women at the same time?  Or even just the allure of the forbidden?  (Further considerations such as 'V-style threesome' or 'triangle-style threesome' would involve dealing with his partners' sexualities as well.  There's a reason that the HBB is considered as rare as a unicorn.)

There very well might be some people who resent prior partners for attempting to change their mind.  It's a common enough reaction to coming out of an uncomfortable living situation, and I've seen it in all sorts of contexts besides the mono/poly one.  Usually, after a period of being away from that situation, the resentment fades.

Online MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2016, 04:47:55 PM »
my question regards the polyamorous ones who subtly imply derogatory thoughts of monogamous couples rather than simply chalking it up to the way an individual is wired--just as there are analytical thinkers and artistic thinkers, one can be taught to think the opposite way and receive positive enforcement to fit the mold, yet possess a natural affinity to the other; much like what you have described concerning the unhappiness of being monogamous. However, after experiencing monogamy and deciding that was not who you are, implications remain for those who it is for. Associating monogamy with a negative connotation with emotions such as 'jealousy', 'insecurity', and 'possession'; yet referring to polygamy to positive personality traits such as 'welcoming', 'inclusive', 'selfless'.

This is something common I have seen with many who are content with polyamory; is this directly the byproduct of concealing the nature of your relationship to avoid scrutiny, or possibly the rejection of some potentials who decided poly was not for them? Is this unintentional, and thought to be the best way to explain yourself? Or is there a consideration reserved for those who are strictly monogamous as being legitimately negative/selfish and merely conforming to the standards set by society? Is it self judgement based on the memory of what you were versus how you are presently?

I guess in short, is this association purposefully a subtle indication of how you think, or is this an instance of misuse causing unintended perceptions?

By asking you directly, I am not intending to sound confrontational. It is simply a question based on what I view as a trend, but I find it easier to ask a stranger on the internet rather than a friend to avoid damage controlling a misunderstanding and I am interested to find out what you have to say about this.

Ok, so Iím going to first start with the statement that Iíve read this a number of times and it comes off sounding very much like you are saying that myself, Mintprincess, thinks this way, the same as all poly people think this way and youíre asking me why I think this way.  However, my trouble answering this is that I donít agree with any of the things youíve said poly people or me or the general you all say and think.

To start, I donít see any Ďimplicationsí when it comes to monogamy.  When it comes to any Ďgroupí of people, you are going to come across those who are open-minded and those who are closed.  Those who might say monogamy is negative are no less judgemental than those who would say poly people ďnon-committalĒ or ďlooking for an easy cheatĒ.   There are plenty of possessive, jealous and insecure monogamous people.  But those arenít traits of monogamy.  They might drive someone to know they could never be poiy, but they arenít traits of monogamy.  They are traits of a person.  Monogamy isnít being jealous, possessive or insecure.  Monogamy is committing oneself to one person and one person only and receiving the same back.   Equally, poly people can be jealous, possessive or insecure most definitely.  Or people trying to be poly but whom it might not be natural can be jealous, possessive or insecure.   Those arenít traits of being poly.  Neither is 'welcoming', 'inclusive', 'selfless'.  Iíve had a poly friend tell me he got judged by other poly friends because and he and his partner didnít want triads with other males, which is damn sure his right and no one should judge them anymore than they would judge anyone else for who they love. 

So, given that I donít hold those views, the best I can do is attempt to answer your question as to why some people may espouse those views.

My guess is that as there are some people out there who think everyone should be monogamous, or everyone should be straight, or everyone should be binary gendered, perhaps there are some poly people out there who think everyone should be poly and those who arenít therefore are lesser or should be judged.   Those people would be just as closed minded as anyone else who dismisses the free choice of others to love who they love and thus, I will never understand why they think as they do and cannot attempt to explain why they would care who and how many other people love. 

Itís also possible that some poly people lost someone they cared for who could not change to poly from monogamy (see giantmutantcrabís story as one) and in anger lash out against monogamy and those who fall under that umbrella.   They may be afraid of being judged because of things they have done or be rejected for who they are and lash out first against those who might in a self defense or self justification manner.  Or maybe they donít handle their own transition from mono to poly well. Iíve talked about mine and it comes with a lot of bumps in the road, fights, guilt, feeling rejected etc. It can be very difficult to feel like youíre hiding yourself in a closet all the time.  It can be hard to feel like someone wonít like you because of who you are.  There are plenty of reasons I suppose someone might want to think of monogamy of negative.

But, thinking about it, answering your question is hard, because every time I read it, my thoughts are no more speculation than yours.  I have zero issues with monogamy as a social practice.  My issue is that it isnít for me.   I have all the love and respect for all the monogamous people in my life.   I donít know how much of my blog you read, but I included the lovely story of my aunt and uncle who just adore each other and I donít think leave each otherís company unless they have to and itís the sweetest thing ever.   

Iíll my last thoughts, a paste of a previous blog:

Quote

Again I want to thank you for sharing your story. I think itís easy for the poly person to get so caught up in having their needs met that they can easily forget their monogamous partner has needs to.   I also believe a number of things that fit your situation:  that some of us are hard-wired poly or monogamous and simply canít be happy Ďbeingí one or the other, that if we are unhappy we cannot function to create happiness for others, and that we must ensure that our own needs are met.  Self-sacrifice for someone else at the expense of our needs might work in the short term, but eventually bitterness creeps in and that -need- for the needs to be met overcomes. 

============================================

I suppose one of the things I take from your story, is that just like I feel there are poly people who are hard-wired poly and cannot be happy any other way, there are also monogamous people are so hardwired they cannot be happy unless their relationship is monogamous.  Throughout your story, you never mentioned trying to date other people or forming your own new relationships, which leads me to believe in the theory that for some people, monogamy is a must. That they themselves cannot form multiple romantic relationships. From that, there are people who likely could accept their partner being poly, even if they themselves cannot do it.   And there are people who need their partner to be monogamous as well, and they cannot be happy in a relationship where their partner is not monogamous. 

And from that Iíll throw the axiom from More Than Two out. 

ďThe people in the relationship are more important than the relationship.Ē

Keeping the relationship at the expense or sacrifice of one person or the other is not worth it.  If youíre unhappy, you canít make others happy.  You can try. You can fake it. But over time youíll resent that they are happy and you are not.   And when you resent, you make bad choices and do things that ultimately hurt everyone involved.   I say that from experience.  I did that. 

ďForcingĒ the poly person to be monogamous is equally as hurtful as forcing the monogamous person to be poly.   In the end, someone will suffer and the relationship will suffer.  I donít think you should ever feel bad for ending a relationship if you cannot be happy in it, because we must always as people ensure our needs are met and having our needs met is not selfish. 

Basically, I believe the same thing you said in your first line.  No judgement here. Love who you want.   Iíll read the other comments you both left later tonight.

<3 Mint

Online MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2016, 05:00:54 PM »

Offline Exaelitus

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2016, 10:00:24 PM »
Thank you for your replies.