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Author Topic: Polyamory and Me  (Read 13557 times)

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Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Polyamory and Me
« on: August 30, 2016, 07:32:58 PM »
I’ve spend my life as a unknowingly polyamorous person in a monogamous world, wondering why I was happy with my relationship, but still unhappy in general.   As in, I love my partner, being with my partner and spending time with my partner and yet, constantly feel like something is always missing.  For most of my life, I just assumed something was wrong with me, that I was one of those people that just couldn’t be content with what she had.  I spent my life in daydreams and buried myself in roleplay with characters who were always a little part of me.  I walked the line of cheating, had relationships on the internet, and dreamed of other lives than the one I had.

Maybe a lot of that is normal.   It’s hard to know, because most of us don’t talk about those things that aren’t in line with the ‘norm’.  And while the world has become more and more accepting of alternate lifestyles, sexuality, and gender-identity (even though we still have a long way to go), statistically there isn’t a lot of acceptance of polyamory.  It isn’t openly talked about (yet) and in my opinion, is highly misunderstood.

So the thought of this blog crossed my mind as a place that I can talk about and others can talk to me about if they wish.   This blog is open for all comments, but no judgement of those who comment or what lifestyles they choose.  I am no more opposed to monogamy than I believe people should be opposed to polyamory, and believe that just like sexuality and gender identity, what you do in the bedroom and who you love and how you want to express yourself are personal choices that should be celebrated and not criticized.   

When I came to E, I labeled myself as monogamous, bi-curious heterosexual, but stated that on E I was polyamorous and bisexual.   What I was really saying was that I was living in the real world one way, and able to be myself on E, but I hadn’t quite connected that the person I was being on E was always who I really wanted to be and hadn’t realized it or allowed that realization to be understood.  Now I know that I’m fully 100% bisexual in romantical, sexual, and emotional sense and experiencing polyamory and forming true committed relationship outside of monogamy has satisfied me in a way that I’ve never felt in my entire life. 

And looking back for the past 20 years, I can see the signs like blinding headlights now.   The things I did, the lines I walked, the justifications I made, the needs I had but never allowed myself, the desires that constantly plagued me and the feeling of being so trapped in a cage that when I broke, I broke.

I am no expert on poly, so don’t expect me to be.  I couldn’t tell you how to be success in poly short of what I’ve always considered to be obvious - honesty, respect, and communication - but this is new territory for me as well.

What I am, if not an expert on, very knowledgable on are the emotions and experiences of a woman who traveled through life unsatisfied and finally came to understand who she was, who felt caged and trapped in a life that just wasn’t exactly what she needed and yet one she couldn’t imagine ever giving up, and how she finally came to understand who she was and what she needed.  This journey spans twenty years, although the bulk of the changes have happened in the last two, since I came to E.  In truth, E has really opened my eyes to who I am and given me a chance to understand myself better.  And for that I’m grateful.

I’ll link all future entries here so feel free to comment and ask questions.   I know I want to write about looking back, what I see now that should have been red flags, and how I came to realize that being part of a polyamorous relationship is what I needed.  I also know other things will strike me that I have to put down.    What I won’t write about are personal details of my relationships or aspects that I don’t feel comfortable sharing.   I won’t be an advice column or therapist but I will try and answer questions about my experiences that could help others if they feel they need it.   I know I’m not the only person in life who has struggled to understand why being happy with one person has always been so difficult. 

And hopefully I’ll find writing about this to be enjoyable and so will you!


Entries
Transition Question Answered
Red Flags
More than Two
A Very Long Reponse


Notes

1. I am 100% open to comments or questions in this blog.  Feel free to drop whatever positive, encouraging, open or constructive feedback you have.
2. I am 100% open for the same in PM, if you don't feel comfortable making your comment here, given the blog is public.


Resources
https://www.morethantwo.com - A website with Articles on Polyamory
More than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory - A book I'm reading


« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 03:04:55 PM by Mintprincess »

Offline CuriousEyes

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2016, 11:54:41 AM »
If I'm reading this correctly it sounds like in real life you've been transitioning a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one?

I'd be interested in hearing about that - if your partner was/is resistant to the idea, how the topic was broached, any anecdotes about the triumphs or difficulties along the way. As someone who quietly struggles with the idea of monogamy himself, I can imagine it must have been very difficult to try to get a partner who engaged in a relationship with the expectation of one thing to be told you need another.

Offline CuriousEyes

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 11:56:20 AM »
Oh, bah. I just realized I might not have read deeply enough - these may be things you aren't comfortable discussing. Apologies and disregard if so.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 12:51:23 PM »
Oh, bah. I just realized I might not have read deeply enough - these may be things you aren't comfortable discussing. Apologies and disregard if so.
i don't mind answering those questions. I'll do my best, and I can always pm for anything I think is too personal. Yes I have transitioned in real life completely to poly. It was about a year Journey with my SO to reach that point and still one we are working on. 

Give me some time and I'll work on those answers :)

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 07:35:50 PM »
Transition Question Answered

Quote
I'd be interested in hearing about that - if your partner was/is resistant to the idea, how the topic was broached, any anecdotes about the triumphs or difficulties along the way. As someone who quietly struggles with the idea of monogamy himself, I can imagine it must have been very difficult to try to get a partner who engaged in a relationship with the expectation of one thing to be told you need another.

Yes my partner was resistant to the idea.  Extremely, and understandably so.  As you said, you engage in a relationship with certain expectations, especially one that is long term.  My partner and I have been together over 17 years and these are issues of mine that I've suppressed and struggled with sometime consciously, sometimes unconsciously since before we got together.

This was not some overnight switch that was flipped. It’s been two years of struggling, containing, messing up, compromising, fighting, and talking.   Initially, when I finally confessed to being poly and needing other people in my life, we compromised on internet relationships. I’d already been having them anyway, so we just continued on with that, except now my partner knew and it was uncomfortable and weird to have them looking over my shoulder all the time or getting angry or avoiding talking about in some days while others asking how my ‘boyfriend’ was.  We kinda shifted back into a don’t really talk about it mode, but I’m not sure that made it worse.

It came to an interesting place when he woke up at six am and I was on the phone still with my girlfriend.  We had some very deep and strong talks and at that point I was very honest that I didn’t think I could stay with the internet thing.  I needed to be at the next level.  And I thought we ended with him being ok with that.  But it was still a lot of struggle to move forward into the place where I was meeting my partners.

Regardless, while I believe there are days he struggles, we are working on keeping our relationship strong.  One always has the choice to stay or go, and as long as we continue to be honest about what we need and want, if he choose to stay it’s a part of me he has to accept.

That might sound selfish, but one thing I’ve learned is that if you aren’t happy, you can’t make others happy and I was growing more and more miserable.   Not being able to be me was bringing DOWN my relationship. Being able to me makes it stronger. 

I’m happy my partner accepted me and decided that our relationship was important enough to continue even though I needed to explore other ones too.   I love him, just like my other partners, just like I have loved many many people in my life and expect that I will probably love many many more.   

I hope that answered your question. Feel free to ask others.


EDIT: I'd like to add that clearly my original partner was male.  He is far far far more comfortable with my girlfriend - hearing about her, talking about meeting her, etc - than my boyfriend.   
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 07:41:25 PM by Mintprincess »

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2016, 04:44:51 PM »
Red Flags

We all know what 'red flags' means.  Those things that should have been obvious at the time, waving in our face, "see me, see me, look at me, hello I'm right here" and yet we don't see them.  We ignore them.  We justify them.  We come up with all the other reasons they might be waving. And then we look back and and they're still brightly color indicators of exactly what we now realize to be so true.

The most brightly colored flag is looking back and realizing I was always looking.  There was never a time in my life where that need to be with someone else was off, except when I was with someone else (emotionally rather than physically).  It was like my mind was always open the possibility of a life with other people, other places, doing other things, with other options. 

That doesn't mean for a moment that I didn't want what I had, because if I didn't want what I had I wouldn't be here with what I have.   And that was the confusing part right?  I don't want to leave, but I want other people.   The thing with that red flag is that it's not quite as red and bright as specific incidents can be.

Behaviors are a lot easier to point to.   In my early years, I never had a boyfriend long.  I usually broke up with them.  That, by itself, isn't really a flag for me, but an indication that even early on I wasn't ready to settle down just to have a relationship.   The one for me that's a biggest flag happened when I was 18.   I had a boyfriend over the summer before college.  We spent a lot of time together.   I slept at his house a lot.  We enjoyed each other's company.  We were intimate and physical and still virgins.   At the same time, I started to like another guy in our group.  I started to enjoy his company and time.   And I did stupid things, like when we all went to the circus I held both their hands.  But I didn't want to NOT hold my boyfriend's hand.  I just wanted to hold the other guy's TOO.   And when I visited the second guy and he wanted to have sex, it felt right and natural and I lost my virginity that day.   And my boyfriend found out.   And while he was hurt, he also wanted to have sex because you know, young guys.  And it felt right to sleep with him too.   I stayed with my boyfriend for awhile, went off to college, didn't want to be tied down (imagine that) and then later slept with and dated the other guy for a time as well.

But looking back, I could have been both of their girlfriend.  And loved it.  And enjoyed it.  And made them both happy. And I would have been happy.  I would have been very happy dating both of them at the same time.  And now that I'm older I feel like that was my first big red flag that poly would have been so much better for me in the long run than monogamy.

My sister even says "Mint when you get drunk you are such a slut."  Because deep down me wants to meet people, flirt, form bonds and let what will happen happen. 

I had many online relationships over the years, a number of which involved the words "I love you." and plenty that included cyber sex.  I told myself, right or wrong, that it was just online, and that while I had feelings and such, I wasn't ACTUALLY getting physical with them.   We wouldn't ever actually meet.   In a pattern I noticed that most of the people I had relationships with lived over the pond, as though that was a safety net so I wouldn't cross more lines.

But that isn't to say that I haven't been physical up to a certain line either.  How close can you push to that line and say it isn't cheating? How close to go and justify it to yourself?  Because I did that.  I can admit that.  Does it count if you and he stare at each other and say all the things you WOULD do if you could?  Does it count if you spent the night and cuddle on the couch and watch a movie but you never actually get physical?  What exactly is the definition of intimacy? What is going too far? If you don't feel like you could tell your SO, does that make it wrong?

Probably.

But we still justify, because finding happiness with someone on the internet to satisfy that 'broken' and 'wrong' and 'unexplainable' side of you seems like a good solution compared to all the other alternatives!

Looking back, I wish I had had more information, more understanding of polyamory. I could have made better choices and been more honest with myself and others around me.  Even after I broke, I still lived with this illusion of all or nothing, of monogamy, of one person, one choice, must chose...

I don't know exactly when poly clicked for me.  I know it was a journey to realize that maybe it was just me and my needs that kept me in this cycle of constantly opening myself up for more.  Looking is probably not the right term, because I don't really feel like I 'look' so much as I leave my door open and if the person who walks in resonates with me romantically and intimately I don't want to have to close them out. 

Monogamy means that door is closed.  Stand outside. You aren't coming in. And for some people that's exactly what they need.   But poly people have that door open and while everyone isn't allowed into the room, we aren't closed off to the idea of letting them in either. 

I think the most important message is that if you're seeing red flags or justifying things, there isn't something wrong with you.  You aren't broken.   Poly isn't a new concept, but at the same time it's not a prominent one or a well understood one.  It doesn't have a model to follow or rules or a lot of things established.  I just wish I had understood my red flags twenty years ago.

But I'm glad I'm finally free to explore them now. 

Offline Wistful Dream

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2016, 07:39:00 AM »
I love reading about your journey. <3

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2016, 09:22:50 AM »
Thank you Wisti! Any comments or insight is always appreciated. <333333

Offline Al Terego

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2016, 07:25:58 AM »
But looking back, I could have been both of their girlfriend.  And loved it.  And enjoyed it.  And made them both happy. And I would have been happy.  I would have been very happy dating both of them at the same time.

So basically you are saying that polyamory is not having to choose.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 09:12:48 AM »
Everything in life is a choice.  Polyamory is the choice to allow yourself to express love for more than one person romantically. It's the choice to provide for the needs of more than person.  It's the choice to shoulder the emotions of more than one person. It's the choice to handle conflict, experience joy, share special moments, trust and appreciate and experience more than one person.   Like all choices, there are benefits and drawbacks, and like all choices, one must make the choice that works best for themselves.

I firmly believe that like many things there is a scale to poly/mono where at the extreme ends, the people are hard-wired one way or the other.  My Aunt and Uncle are not only monogamous, but they truly enjoy being in each other's company ALL THE TIME.  Short of work and family commitments, I really think they do everything together. You can see that need when you're with them.  It's beautiful.  People who are hardwired to be monogamous -NEED- that bond between themselves and that one person.  They are the type who feel that draw to the 'one'. It's like a craving for them.   (I assume, as I'm not like that.  But I can often hear that in the voices of those who talk about it).

On the other end are those who are hard-wired to be poly.  Who don't feel like there is the one, but rather so many opportunities for love, that leaving that open is a Need.  And while I don't expect anyone who isn't poly to understand that, not having those opportunities feels akin to being caged, being bound, having your heart and soul trapped and unable to break free. 

In the middle there are people who could probably go either way.  They're happy being monogamous - being with multiple people isn't a need - but they could also do it. They could 'be poly'.   They don't have an innate need to be monogamous either. 

I'd compare that to the D/s spectrum, where you have some who are hard-wired to be dominant and cannot be any other way, and trying to be another way is both unsatisfying and personally caging.   Same with being a submissive.   Then you have those in the middle who are neither, both, some variation of dominant with the occasional desire to submit and vice versa, or if not the desire, at least the ability.




I would like to reiterate that my blog is for expression and learning, but not criticism or debate.  I'm happy to field any question, but I do not feel the need the need to 'defend' or 'debate' my choices.  Please use the PROC forum for that purpose.   I am free to live my life as I choose and those who are involved with me as my partners openly know who I am involved with and how. 

Thanks!   

Online Dwarfvader

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 11:58:25 AM »
Quote
In the middle there are people who could probably go either way.  They're happy being monogamous - being with multiple people isn't a need - but they could also do it. They could 'be poly'.   They don't have an innate need to be monogamous either. 

I've been thinking about myself and where do I fall. And I think this describes this rather well for me. So thank you for putting the words together!

Offline Al Terego

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2016, 12:00:13 PM »
Sorry Mint, that was not meant as a criticism, and I failed to convey my point.

What I meant is that poly is not being forced (or forcing yourself) to choose between being with this or that person but rather allowing oneself to be with both (or more).
This gives me, as a monogamous person, a starting point from which I can begin to understand this viewpoint.

I would like to apologize if my poor choice of wording offended you, this was never my intent.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2016, 12:27:17 PM »
I've been thinking about myself and where do I fall. And I think this describes this rather well for me. So thank you for putting the words together!
I'm glad I can help! I think that applies to a lot of things in life. We have some things we can be, and some things that we are.  And that's ok!  If you have any more questions or thoughts, let me know <3

Sorry Mint, that was not meant as a criticism, and I failed to convey my point.

I would like to apologize if my poor choice of wording offended you, this was never my intent.


Accept and very glad to hear!  There is that negative connotation that 'well you are being greedy or selfish and just want an excuse to do whatever you want!' Or don't want to commit or don't want to actually have to be accountable to people.  I think I read the phrasing as that way. 

Where as I completely disagree that poly is any of those things.  Being committed to multiple people takes time, effort and communication.  It means understanding that your partner may not always be able to spend time with you because they are with their other partner(s) or that you may have to sacrifice something to ensure you are meeting their needs.   There is a huge amount of understanding and care that goes into the feelings of everyone involved.  There is as much commitment to my partners as my original relationship and I'm accountable now to all of them.  I have to consider all their needs when I make a decision about how and where I'm spending my time. 

This is no different than considering the needs of my children, the needs of my workplace, and the needs of my family and friends when I"m deciding how to spend my time, and no different than accepting that there are plenty of times my partners will need to commit their time to jobs and family and friends as well.  There are times when I know one of my partners needs the other partner and I step back and out because I'm not strong unless we're all strong. 

Being greedy or selfish would imply that what's good for the goose isn't ok for the gander, that I wanted to have more than one boyfriend/girlfriend, but they had to be committed only to me.  I didn't want to have to choose, but they had to choose to me.   But I don't consider myself greedy or selfish, for sharing myself with more than one person and equally receiving joy in the fact that they share themselves with others. 

Quote
What I meant is that poly is not being forced (or forcing yourself) to choose between being with this or that person but rather allowing oneself to be with both (or more).
This gives me, as a monogamous person, a starting point from which I can begin to understand this viewpoint.

And yes, being poly allows me to love them all without restraint.  Choosing to leave one partner for another is as painful and unappealing as choosing to stay and give up the chance at love with the newest people in my life.   

Thank you for the comments!!

Offline Al Terego

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2016, 12:47:24 PM »
This is no different than considering the needs of my children

I believe this is the best explanation I have heard about polyamory.

Thank you!

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2016, 01:12:28 PM »
You know it's funny, because I use the kid analogy a lot to talk about poly. 

Some people need no children.  They are extremely happy sharing their lives with adults and doting on nieces and nephews but never having their own.  Others are one and done and extremely happy to devote 100% of their parental love to a single child.  Others seem to never stop having children, becoming the parents of large families with love and joy in having multiple children to raise and cherish.   How many children we want is, in my opinion, tied to our need for sharing parent/child love.  How many we have may be influenced by other factor, but I think people 'feel' when they are 'done'.

I know I thought I only wanted two children, but I didn't feel done when I had my twins.  I still didn't feel done when I had my third.  My body has decided I'm done, but emotionally, I am not done.  How many you have is also dependent on the couple, as there are two parents after all.   And the number of children is one of those things they say you need to talk to your partner about before you end up fighting about it later.  It doesn't work very well if someone wants 10 kids and the other wants none.

No one ever says that parents of one child are more loving or more committed than parents of multiple children.  No one is criticized for their choice to have a second child.  No one says "What's wrong with your first child that you need another one?  Why don't they meet all your needs?  Don't you love them enough? How could you hurt them by saying you wanted another one to go with them?" 

Parents equally have a different level of involvement need with their children.   You all know those parents who spend more hours taking their children to sports games and practices and parent meetings and coaching and PTAs and room moms and the like. You know the ones who can't bear to be apart from their kids even for a weekend.  The ones who truly enjoy spending ALL their time with their kids/family.   And you know the parents, like me, who are quite happy when Saturday afternoon the kids run up and down the street with their friends, hit the park, or bury themselves in their bedrooms to play legos or dolls.  I can go off on a trip for a week and while I miss my kids, I'm not -dying- inside either.

There are plenty of people who feel that way with their relationships as well.  They enjoy time with their partner(s) but they equally enjoy time spent doing other things or being with other people. 

Basically I feel like it comes down to society has said that love can be freely given for children, for family, for friends.  You can have more than one job, more than one hobby, more than one interest.

But you cannot have more than one lover/SO/spouse.

 

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2016, 07:06:11 PM »
I just wanted to say I'm enjoying reading your blog and you have a lot to say that's spot on.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2016, 08:34:19 PM »
I just wanted to say I'm enjoying reading your blog and you have a lot to say that's spot on.
Thank you Amber! I really hope both to enlighten and be enlightened by others who might have another way of looking at things.  Feel free to ask me questions, otherwise I'll probably come up with another random entry soon!

Offline Hurricane

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 03:28:00 AM »
Do you have kids?

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 05:26:40 AM »
Enjoyable reading, Mint.  I'm happy you've taken the steps you have in your journey.

It sounds like to me that, being poly isn't so much a 'choice' per se, but rather, we are forced into the monogamy mold.  Those who are poly then realize something is 'wrong' when they are in that mold, and choose to explore options of breaking out of it or not.  It's a similar sequence to many non-normative human aspects.  These kinds of journeys should be shared in order to move them from the non-normative to the normative and thus get rid of the societal 'molds' we have.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2016, 11:18:11 AM »
Do you have kids?
Yes I do! Three amazing wonderful children I'm very proud of. <3


Enjoyable reading, Mint.  I'm happy you've taken the steps you have in your journey.

It sounds like to me that, being poly isn't so much a 'choice' per se, but rather, we are forced into the monogamy mold.  Those who are poly then realize something is 'wrong' when they are in that mold, and choose to explore options of breaking out of it or not.  It's a similar sequence to many non-normative human aspects.  These kinds of journeys should be shared in order to move them from the non-normative to the normative and thus get rid of the societal 'molds' we have.

Thank you Ryven!  It's been a long couple years, but so worth it.  I've never been happier than I am right now.   I really appreciate your support and completely agree with you. We need to start opening and sharing these journeys both to show that 'non-normative' is still completely normal and good and so that others can gain both information and support to do the same.  There is nothing worse then feeling like 'something is wrong with you', a feeling that I'm sure a lot of those with non-normative needs go through.   The day I realized there wasn't something wrong with me was an epiphany that I needed so badly.   

And you word that so well.  I don't think 'being poly' is a choice for me.   However, expressing poly was what I meant by we have a choice.  I could have chosen to continue on monogamous and unhappy the rest of my life.  I'm certain that there are many people who make the choice of unhappiness to suppress who they are because they are afraid of societal norms. 

I hope that in time we can continue to expand minds.  I feel society has come a long way with the GLB culture.  We are slowly opening eyes to understanding Trans-gendered needs.  We need to continue to grow on those areas as well as not stigmatizing sex, ending the slut/stud double standard, and accepting that love is love is love no matter what form or number it takes.

<3



Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2016, 09:14:54 PM »
More than Two

More than Two is a book by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert about Ethical Polyamory.   I was recommended this book by my GF.  She was recommended it by a poly friend of hers.  I've read through chapter six and the book is not only insightful about polyamory, it helps lay a foundation for relationships.   Because how can you possibly have multiple relationships if you can't even handle one?   I highly recommend this book to anyone interested in polyamory, and honestly even those who are monogamous, but perhaps open to the ideas or simply curious about the thought processes behind relationships and poly living.   

Anyway, each chapter of the book has questions for thought at the end.   I've worked on answering a lot of them and I discuss them with my trio.  The open communication has been amazingly helpful.   I thought I would share some of the questions and answers that pertained only to me.   Chapter one was introspective, delving into whether or not you might be poly.  Here were my answers. 





Have I ever felt romantic love for more than one person at a time?
This is an easy yes.  I've been feeling love, romantically, for multiple people since as early as 18 years old.   I've struggled with this attraction and need for others all my life.  The romantic feelings of love are usually coupled with sexual desire as well, although typically I have feelings for the person before the sexual desire, not the other way around. 


Do I feel there can only be one "true" love or one "real" soulmate?
No. The world is filled with 7 billion people. If one of them was meant to be your one and only, the chances you would meet them would be so damn tiny it would never happen.  There are plenty of people in this world that would fit romantically and sexually with me, just as that applies to anyone else.   For me, life is about meeting people and enriching myself through those connections, whether they be romantic, platonic, or familial love. 


How important is my desire for multiple romantic relationships?
For me, the desire is strong and always has been.  Thus, I feel it's not only important, but a key and fundamental part of who I am. The book talks about how there are many reasons to practice or engage in polyamory, however it makes a point to say for some its' part of their identity.  I feel I fall into this catagory that it's a deep piece of me.  And not understanding that has led to a lot of emotional stress in my life. 


What do I want from my romantic life?  Am I open to multiple sexual relationships, romantic relationships, or both?  If I want more than one lover, what degree of closeness and intimacy do I expect and what do I offer?
Romance and sexual attraction tend to go hand in hand for me.   I desire sex with those who I am romantically attracted to.   And I desire the non-sexual aspects of a relationship just as much.  Words are very important to me, as is appreciation, and I like to have both from anyone I have relationship with.   I don't want to prioritize my relationships or say that I'm ok being this close to one person and that close to another.   Intimacy and openness and closeness should be 100% with someone who I've committed to and I want to feel that they give me just as much. 


How important is transparency to me?  If I have more than one lover, am I happy with them knowing about each other? If they have other lovers, am I happy knowing them? 
My preference would be that all my lovers were at the very least aquanted.  While I can't and wouldn't expected them to get along, I don't want to hide them or feel I can't talk about them or that I can't share things that are going on between us.  I'd like to meet and be friends with anyone my partners were with.  I feel like love means supporting your partner's happiness and if someone makes them happy, as long as that person isn't actively detrimental to the other relationships, I would want to be supportive and positive about my lover's happiness with them.   


How do I define commitment? Is it possible for me to commit to more than one person at a time, and if so, what would those commitments look like?
Commitment means keeping your word.  Being there for the other person.  Supporting them emotionally, spending time with them, ensuring that your action contribute to positive growth for their person and your relationship. It means doing what you say you will do, when you say you will do it.   I fully believe that it's possible to hold commitments to more than one person, no different than we hold commitments to many aspects of our lives.  We are commited to jobs, friends, family, activities, and more.   There is no reason to think that we can't be romantically commited in more than one way the same as we are committed multiple times over in many facits of our lives.  Balance is always key, and the more commitments we have, romantic or otherwise, the less time we have to commit to each person/activity.   Ensuring open communication about time avaliable and when needs can be met is also critical.


If I am already in a relationship, does my desire for others come from dissatisfaction or unhappiness with my current relationship? If I were in a relationship that met my needs, would I still want multiple partners?
The easy answer is no.  Because I've desired multipled partners before my current longest relationship, and during my current when times were up and down.   Knowing how I feel as part of a trio, and knowing that I've desired to be part of a trio for some time now, testing the waters without the full commitment, I feel that wanting and being with multiple partners is a part of who I am.  I believe I felt dissatisfaction with my partner because of the caged feeling of monogamy, of feeling like I needed to reach out and make those bonds and form those relationships and not being allowed to because I was married.  Thus, I feel the unhappiness came from a lack of multiple partners rather than the unhappiness driving me that way.

I also feel that relationships should be able to evolve to where they will naturally go.  Monogamy places a limit on what my potential could be with someone.  It draws a line that cannot be crossed, which can lead to conflict, dishonesty, stressful emotions and a loss of someone that could otherwise be important in my life.   

Offline CuriousEyes

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2016, 07:43:31 AM »
A random question - do you have any thoughts on legal issues surrounding poly individuals? Things you'd want to see changed, what consequences or benefits might be involved, etc?

Off the top of my head I had been thinking of how hospitals very recently restricted end of life decisions (or even the right to be in a room to hold a hand) to gay couples under the argument they weren't legally married. I don't know that you personally want to be legally married to multiple people, but it obviously isn't possible in most of the world.

Online Giantmutantcrab

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2016, 08:32:03 AM »
Hello MintPrincess.

I'm not sure what word to use when speaking of this thread. "Congratulations" seems out of place, as you did not win a race or a competition. It is a good thing to be able to express yourself and to be able to put down words coherently and correctly to express a situation, especially a personal one. So... Bravo, I guess, would be the best word to use in such circumstances.

I'm dipping into this pool because of what I've lived through, many a years ago.


.....



I was with someone, in a one-on-one relationship. And everything was cool. And then... After a long while of being together... She told me she wanted to see and be with other people. Shocked, I asked her if she was breaking up with me. She said that no, no, it was nothing of the sort. She was polyamorous and that she had been suppressing this aspect of her ever since she started her relationship with me. She needed to see other people. Other men, other women. I asked her if she basically wanted an "open" relationship, where intimacy and sexuality was not reserved to one singular individual. She said that no, it wasn't exactly like that. She just... Needed to feel that intimacy with others, too. She had spent a lot of time online and had developed relationships with others. Intimate relationships, quasi-sexual relationships.

To say I was shocked, baffled and dumbfounded would be an understatement. My entire universe had been flipped upside-down. Nothing made sense anymore. Because I loved this person and wished for her happiness, I accepted what she was asking me. We had fights over this. A LOT of fights. Harsh words were shared. But in the end, I understood that this was what she wanted, so I gave in and said yes.

First came the self-blame. What did I do wrong? How did I mess up? Maybe I wasn't attentive enough, or maybe I didn't make her feel cared for correctly. So I tried different approaches. Being more careful, more kind, sweeter, more understanding. Saying yes more often, saying sorry more often, trying to be "better". That didn't work.

Second came the paranoia. The creeping, needle-in-the-back-of-your-skull sensation of what is she doing... right now. Where is she? With who is she? What are they doing right now? Is she safe? Is she happy? Is she... making love to him? Or her? ...Is she even thinking about you in any way, shape or form?

Third came the anger, which is often in the passenger's seat of the paranoia. She dosen't care. She's just using this "polyamorous" bullshit as an excuse to go cheat on me. To go fuck around with whoever she wants, however she wants, and get away with it. And I'm sitting here, on the couch, stupid weak little cuckhold that I am, while she's out wining and dining and doing whatever she damn well pleases.

Fourth came the sadness. She saw this more than the other aspects. She was so happy and free, like a beautiful little butterfly fluttering about freely. Free to do whatever she wanted, free to truly be herself. But I remember one specific evening that she had put her hand on the doorknob and suddenly froze, and looked at me. The television was on, but I was not looking at it. I was sitting on the middle of the couch, looking down at the floor. I could see her from the corner of my eye. She asked me what was wrong. I was unable to actually form words. I wasn't capable of reacting correctly to the situation. I noticed that I was crying, right there and then. She asked me why I was crying. As if she did not know the answer to that question. She immediately countered herself, trying to defend herself. She told me that I had accepted this, and that I had accepted her all that time ago. That this was a part of her as much as all the other parts of her that I had accepted and chosen to love. In mid-sentence she choked up and stopped speaking, moved to sit down next to me and told me she was sorry, that she didn't mean to hurt me. But that this was who she was, deep down inside. That she loved me but that she loved him. And her, too.

I hadn't spoken a word in any of this.

For a while after that, I tried. I pretended that it did not bother me. And some days it didn't. But some days it did. I once told her that she spent so much time with him and with her that she barely spent any time with me. She seemed saddened by this and asked, innocently, if I would like to spend time with him, or with her.

I said that no, I did not care to meet these two other people. I knew of them. She did not hide their identities from me. But I did not want to know who they were or where they lived or what she did with one, or the other. I told her that when we met and began to be together, there had been a tacit understanding between the two of us. That it was the two of us. Her and me. No third party or fourth party involved. That we were together and this was our relationship. She replied that these things could change and that since it was our relationship, we could do whatever we wanted. I corrected that SHE was doing what she wanted. All I wanted was her and to be with her. This was making her happy but was making me unhappy. I did not enjoy the idea of her spending time with others like she spent that time with me. I tried to be understanding, I tried to be open. I really, really did.

She left to see her girlfriend that day. When she came back, I was gone.

I don't know what happened to her after that. I don't know if she stayed with them, or moved on, or got married, or had children. I don't know. All I know is that I left her a letter, not unlike this one, where I explained how everything went from being a happy and sane relationship into this insane, unhappy mess that I was living with daily.


.....


I was once that person that the polyamourous person opened up to. I was once that individual who tried to be the understanding one, the open-minded one, the one that loved this other person and wanted that person to be happy... But who ended up unhappy in the process. And who ended this relationship, suddenly and brutally, because I just had to leave that situation. I do not claim to know you or your partner in any way. I lived a similar situation, only I was not one of the actors on stage but the one sitting down and watching this all unfold, front row and center.

I hope this commentary was not seen as negative, because it was not the goal.

Thank you for your time.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2016, 08:54:04 AM »
A random question - do you have any thoughts on legal issues surrounding poly individuals? Things you'd want to see changed, what consequences or benefits might be involved, etc?

Off the top of my head I had been thinking of how hospitals very recently restricted end of life decisions (or even the right to be in a room to hold a hand) to gay couples under the argument they weren't legally married. I don't know that you personally want to be legally married to multiple people, but it obviously isn't possible in most of the world.

As someone who's been poly for nearing eight years now there's a lot of things I'd like to change on legal issues. I think that poly people should have the right to marry those that they love certainly, and some people have done legal documents that can give most of those benefits but it takes a lot of time and money. I personally don't want to be married, though I'm incredibly committed to both of my men. All three of us feel the same way about it, so that works for us.

I have more than once worried about what might happen if we needed to make choices at a hospital or the like, though as we are a triad relationship as long as rights are given to one of us the other one will get a voice as well before a decision is made.

Offline Al Terego

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2016, 11:50:26 AM »
General power of attorney maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_attorney

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2016, 12:49:51 PM »
All -

I am so beyond touched from all of your stories.  Thank you so much for sharing.  I'm laying in bed feeling the effects of a massive sinus and allergy attack and so I'm still in bed half asleep. But I want to respond to each of these personally and will do as soon as I can muster a computer


-hugs for all-

mint

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2016, 09:42:42 PM »
I am still super super sick.   And while I can do basic computer things or bury myself in wow I'm not ready yet for the higher thought required for typing the 10,000 words in my head for this blog.   I promise responses + more are coming.  I really REALLY appreciate the stories left and that you have courage to share with me.   

#failsickmint

Thanks all <3

Offline Al Terego

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2016, 09:48:27 PM »
Get better, Mint, we need you up and kicking.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2016, 06:51:13 PM »

Quote
A random question - do you have any thoughts on legal issues surrounding poly individuals? Things you'd want to see changed, what consequences or benefits might be involved, etc?

Off the top of my head I had been thinking of how hospitals very recently restricted end of life decisions (or even the right to be in a room to hold a hand) to gay couples under the argument they weren't legally married. I don't know that you personally want to be legally married to multiple people, but it obviously isn't possible in most of the world.

I’m not sure I have a good answer to this at all right now. It’s definitely new territory for me, and something I need to consider.  I could also ask if two people were together for a long time but not married how does that work as well?  My mother and her boyfriend do not live together, thus they wouldn’t be considered married, but they’ve been together twenty years.  Damn straight if my mom was in the hospital he’d be there by her side and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Quote
I think that poly people should have the right to marry those that they love certainly, and some people have done legal documents that can give most of those benefits but it takes a lot of time and money. I personally don't want to be married, though I'm incredibly committed to both of my men. All three of us feel the same way about it, so that works for us.

Wisti hit a bit of the nail on the head here. Legal documents can ‘solve all’ but they take time and money.   Equally, there are a lot of rules in place right now for things like 104K and other inheritance.  To put someone as my spouse as the primary beneficiary requires them to sign off that they agree.   I don’t know why, as technically I’m earning mine and he’s earning his, but that’s the rules as they stand now.  I’m not sure the same applies to other policies and inheritances, because I know relatively little about the subject, but how do you set these up without paying legal fees over and over.

For example, at what point does a person move into that circle?  Even in monogamy, you date, you get engaged and then you get married, but at some point well before marriage you trust them enough to have a future with them, with your future, so is that the point you want them in the hospital with you?  If you aren’t married yet, how do you go about that now?  And so if you’re poly, at what point does that happen… when you can’t get formally married?   There are a host of things that would be interesting to discuss.  And love is love doesn’t have some magic time.   

I’ve been with my trio less than a year but if something happened to put myself or one of them in the hospital, 100% we would not only want to be there, but need to be there for each other. 


General power of attorney maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_attorney

But how expensive is that?  And how do you give multiple people the power over your decisions if you're incapacitated?  How do you ensure that the decisions made are considering all the people in your life?   Especially if not all your partners really get along?



Giantmutantcrab ---

Yours is coming next.  I'm shot after that typing (Mint is still getting over this virus) and your story deserves me fresh again.  I think your perspective is super important for us poly people to hear and consider when we're with someone who is monogamous. It's easy for us to focus on ourselves and our needs to finally be who we've always felt we needed to be.  But our monogamous partners are still people we love too with needs and emotions.

Admittedly (and maybe other poly/monos will confess this), I had just been hoping my husband had cheated on me, or had been wanting to be with others, or had been poly as well... so that I wouldn't have to feel guilty about who I was.

Anyway, more to come. 



Get better, Mint, we need you up and kicking.


Thanks hun! I need me up and kicking too.  This whole SICK THING SUCKS!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 04:43:47 PM by Blythe »

Offline Al Terego

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2016, 10:10:03 PM »
But how expensive is that?  And how do you give multiple people the power over your decisions if you're incapacitated?  How do you ensure that the decisions made are considering all the people in your life?   Especially if not all your partners really get along?
Power of attorney is just a legal document.  You can probably find templates online, even from your state or municipal gov sites.  Get them signed and witnessed -- that's free.  If they need to be notarized, it's a small price.  I am not sure about the particulars.

As for the rest, if I had all the answers, I would be living the good life.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2016, 11:31:08 PM »
Power of attorney is just a legal document.  You can probably find templates online, even from your state or municipal gov sites.  Get them signed and witnessed -- that's free.  If they need to be notarized, it's a small price.  I am not sure about the particulars.

As for the rest, if I had all the answers, I would be living the good life.


I'm not great at all the legal stuff to be honest.  Like, I know I SHOULD get a will in case something happened to me so that my kids went to the 'right hands', but the thought of having to even record that all and decide is... ugh.   So I haven't done it.

I suppose the question is this.  If I had two legally wedded partners and I was incapacitated would they have equal say in what happened and my decisions?  Versus, I'm pretty sure that if I make a power of attorney documention, I would have to specify ONE person only?

Offline PhantomPistoleer

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2016, 11:52:08 PM »
I suppose the question is this.  If I had two legally wedded partners and I was incapacitated would they have equal say in what happened and my decisions?  Versus, I'm pretty sure that if I make a power of attorney documention, I would have to specify ONE person only?

This is impossible to answer.  At present, bigamy is illegal in the United States.  You cannot legally have more than one spouse.

However, if bigamy was legal, then I imagine that family law would borrow a lot from business entities, namely partnerships, in working out the kinks of polyamorous marriages.  Partnerships are agreements entered into by two or more parties for the purpose of making a profit.  You don't need a contract or anything, but if you don't have a contract, the state will assume a common contract between the parties.  This can have unanticipated and severe consequences.

The reason I mention all of this is that you just kind of stumbled into one of the biggest problems in partnership law.  What happens when you leave a decision up to two parties?  And what happens if those two parties disagree?  You end up with a stalemate.  So, it wouldn't just be enough to leave the decision to two parties:  but you would need to figure out how to resolve a stalemate between them.  That's why lawyers who work in the business entities world recommend having an odd number of partners, so that you can always achieve a majority in decision-making processes.

Offline Al Terego

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2016, 12:19:41 AM »
Perhaps you could leave the decision to your dear friend #1, unless they are unavailable, in which case it goes to dear friend #2.
I hate to say it but... consult a lawyer.

Offline KieraJade

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 11:03:46 AM »
First off – I love reading this blog. And the reactions and stories or thoughts that are placed within it. Comments, etc. It’s all interesting and I love that you are putting it out there for everyone, darling. It might help others with their journey and decisions.

Big Picture Comment: The whole “power of attorney” and legality issues raises a bigger, broader question that is usually the not-fun part of relationships: The Nitty Gritty, Down and Dirty, Life Responsibility Issues. What happens when your partner, or partners go into the hospital? What happens when there is a car crash? Who has to go where? What if someone has to go to court, or gets arrested, or gets sick? Money problems? What about the kids? Who is taking out the trash? When the “honeymoon phase,” fun of the sex and the love stops, the real world starts, and then what happens? And who wants to stick around for that work?

Specific Comments:
-In the United States, the laws and rules of who can be where, who gets what, and what gets taxed when someone passes varies from state to state. So does who gets Power of Attorney, or who is the First Executor of an estate, trust, will, etc. Sometimes, doesn’t matter, it’s the spouse. Sometimes it is whoever is notarized… So it doesn’t always have to be the spouse.

And depending on the state and their estate laws, there can be more than one executor.

Example: For my mother’s will, I am the First Executor of her estate, and my sister is the First Executor of all medical decisions. (Please take the next part as a joke, because it is how my family jokes about it. We really love each other very, very much, my mom is really healthy and not going anywhere…) So I get to divvy up the goods and my sister gets to pull the plug. Because that is what is already notarized and stated in the will.
Life Insurance is also something that you can dictate who gets how much, usually. Or who the beneficiaries are. Usually, it is automatically the spouse or next of kin, but this is also something people can purchase and name whoever they want as a beneficiary.

I think every serious relationship, whether monogamous or poly, should have those types of conversations. Those are never fun conversations to have, but it could help with decisions down the road should the unfortunate occur. 

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2016, 02:49:12 PM »
Giantmutantcrab ---

Again I want to thank you for sharing your story. I think it’s easy for the poly person to get so caught up in having their needs met that they can easily forget their monogamous partner has needs to.   I also believe a number of things that fit your situation:  that some of us are hard-wired poly or monogamous and simply can’t be happy ‘being’ one or the other, that if we are unhappy we cannot function to create happiness for others, and that we must ensure that our own needs are met.  Self-sacrifice for someone else at the expense of our needs might work in the short term, but eventually bitterness creeps in and that -need- for the needs to be met overcomes. 

And there isn’t anything wrong with needing our needs. It isn’t selfish at all, as much as people might feel their needs are selfish, most of the time they are not.   In your case, in your SOs, in mine, we all had times we were sacrificing our own deeper needs for someone else and in the end it leads us to make choices that don’t benefit anyone at all. 

I did want to go through these, because I’m certain my husband went through them again, and maybe talk about them from the poly side.  I’m addressing these things for the monogamous community in general, not to you specifically, and not assuming that you do/don’t know these things already or that you need to know them.  I’m addressing them because there may be other monogamous readers out there who are in one of these stages and I want to provide some understanding of the poly side of those feelings.   

Quote
First came the self-blame. What did I do wrong? How did I mess up? Maybe I wasn't attentive enough, or maybe I didn't make her feel cared for correctly. So I tried different approaches. Being more careful, more kind, sweeter, more understanding. Saying yes more often, saying sorry more often, trying to be "better". That didn't work.

Most definitely the monogamous partner needs to know they didn’t mess up.  They didn’t do anything wrong.   That it’s no different that if your partner ends up bisexual and you cannot suddenly become the other sex. You can’t be multiple people. You can’t provide that need to form new relationships, build new bonds, share the self with more than one person because you can’t be more than one person.

I feel like because monogamous people struggle to understand what a poly person is thinking/feeling/needing, because it’s so foreign to them, there is a misconception that if they do a better job at the relationship, the poly person will ‘come back to being monogamous’.   There is a thought that it’s a phase because the partner isn’t meeting their needs, and if they met needs better things will ‘return’ to their ‘normal’ state. 

Except that for the poly person, they are finally experience their ‘normal’ state and once experienced, poly people finally suddenly feel complete and happy and able to express themselves and there is no ‘going back.’  I could say that if a gay person finally felt free to express that need and be with a same sex partner they wouldn’t ‘get over that phase and go back to being straight.’  They weren’t ever straight.  It’s the same with poly people.  We weren’t ever monogamous.  We were ‘acting’ in a monogamous fashion because we either didn’t understand or didn’t feel free to openly express our true nature.   We hide in our closet as well, burying our needs and feigning our outward happiness because we are supposed to be happy in monogamy. 
Quote
Second came the paranoia. The creeping, needle-in-the-back-of-your-skull sensation of what is she doing... right now. Where is she? With who is she? What are they doing right now? Is she safe? Is she happy? Is she... making love to him? Or her? ...Is she even thinking about you in any way, shape or form?

I think even poly people go through this.  Insecurity in a relationship is common for everyone when things are changing, whether monogamous or poly.  Change is difficult for people because the future is unknown and we dwell on all the things that could happen - usually the bad. It’s like we’re programmed to think about all the horrors in order to plan out our self preservation. 

Was she thinking of you? Do you think of your SO when you’re at work?  When you’re gaming? When you’re eating?  They come in and out of your thoughts throughout the day as time passes and your focus changes and conversations and actions and events spark memories.   When poly people are with other partners it’s no different.   We think of our work, children, friends and other partners the same way we always do.   And we want our partners to be thinking of us too, even when we’re not with them and they are with others or working, eating, gaming, driving, etc.   

If your partner is out with her BFF or at work you think about them, hope they are safe and maybe wonder if they are happy or having fun, but because we assume that we know the outcome of going to work or hanging out with friends isn’t going to change our partner’s relationship with us, we aren’t insecure about and we don’t worry about how it will affect our future, even if everything will affect our future.   

So here is the thing. Will a new relationship affect your current one?  Yes.   It will.  Because everything new affects the current.  If your partner gets a new job, joins a new club, picks up a new hobby (Mint plays Wow now… and that’s a time sink I swear!), that’s going to affect the time they have spend with you.  That doesn’t mean it changes how they feel about you.  Just because I play Wow now and have less time to focus on other activities doesn’t mean I love my husband any less.  Or my children.   And just because I have a boyfriend and girlfriend who take up my time, doesn’t mean I love my husband or children any less either. 

And that is the uncertainty - the insecurity - that as poly people we have to ensure we let our monogamous partner know.  That’s the part they have to understand.  That meeting and being with someone new doesn’t change the fact that we love them.   And I can openly say that when my partner talks about flirting with someone new that it does shake that same paranoia tree, and those fears fall like apples and I have to pick them up and deal with them.  And that’s ok because that’s normal because change is uncertain.  But change is also a part of life.  Everything changes.  And we are adaptable creatures who can face that change head on, pickup our apples, keep the ones that have purpose and toss the ones that don’t. 

Quote
Third came the anger, which is often in the passenger's seat of the paranoia. She dosen't care. She's just using this "polyamorous" bullshit as an excuse to go cheat on me. To go fuck around with whoever she wants, however she wants, and get away with it. And I'm sitting here, on the couch, stupid weak little cuckhold that I am, while she's out wining and dining and doing whatever she damn well pleases.

I definitely think my husband went through this and it wasn’t a fun time for either of us.   And I’ve mentioned before the stigma to poly that people give it, “It’s just an excuse to cheat.” 

Poly isn’t cheating.  Poly people can cheat, but poly itself isn’t cheating.  Cheating is being with someone else without your partner(s) knowing about it.  Cheating is hiding things because you don’t want to tell your partner.  Cheating isn’t the act of being with someone else, it’s the act of lying about it.   It’s the omission of information that could change your partner’s decisions about being with you.   That’s what cheating is. 

If you have been given all the information and still choose to remain with your partner while they are out with others, you’ve made that choice and your partner isn’t cheating.   I want that emphasize that strongly, because the poly person most definitely felt like they were honest with you about what they were doing (and trust me, that isn’t easy for us at all. In fact I’m going to talk about that in the future, that fear of opening up and what’s that like for us.)

For the poly person, we don’t understand your anger.  We don’t understand why you’re mad at us when we told you what we needed and what we were doing and you accepted it.   I highlight that here because:

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She immediately countered herself, trying to defend herself. She told me that I had accepted this, and that I had accepted her all that time ago. That this was a part of her as much as all the other parts of her that I had accepted and chosen to love. In mid-sentence she choked up and stopped speaking, moved to sit down next to me and told me she was sorry, that she didn't mean to hurt me. But that this was who she was, deep down inside. That she loved me but that she loved him. And her, too.

When we’re told we’re accepted and then we have anger thrown at us, we don’t feel accepted anymore and we don’t react well too it.  That isn’t to say that the monogamous person shouldn’t/can’t get angry, because feelings are feelings and we must acknowledge our feelings, but this stage ends up feeling like a betrayal to the poly person.   “I was told you accepted me and loved me for who I am and… basically you don’t.”  And it can hurt the poly person to feel unaccepted for who they are.   It’s not an easy time for poly/mono relationships and I can promise you I both said those words and felt those betrayals many times. 

We end up feeling like you love us for who you want us to be and not who we really are.

And I understand you feel betrayed because

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I told her that when we met and began to be together, there had been a tacit understanding between the two of us. That it was the two of us. Her and me. No third party or fourth party involved. That we were together and this was our relationship

And the sudden need for others in the relationship feels like a betrayal of that understanding.   

The problem for poly people is that we often enter monogamous relationships because we don’t know/understand we’re poly, we don’t even know the option is out there, society tells us we must find our one true love and marry them and live happily ever after and that we aren’t good people if we don’t commit ourselves to that one person.   We enter these relationships denying who we are from the start.  We betray ourselves first and foremost, often unintentionally, placing ourselves into a situation where we are doomed to never be happy.   Some point we are ‘enlightened’ - someone talks to us about poly, we see it on the internet, we figure it out - and we start to understand our needs better.

But we’re already in a monogamous relationship.   With someone we love.  With someone we don’t want to not be with.  We don’t want to replace them.  We don’t want to end and start over.  We’ve put time, feelings, blood, sweat and tears into building this castle and making it beautiful, and we don’t want to tear it down.  We want to build ANOTHER castle right next to it, as wonderful and amazing and the castle we already have. And the maybe a third or a fourth, or maybe our second castle will just really expand and be a multi-queen-king castle! The possibilities are endless to our castle expansion.

But our first castle is still special. 

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I once told her that she spent so much time with him and with her that she barely spent any time with me.

New castles take a lot of effort in the beginning to build.  Just like any new monogamous relationship, people often dive in and have that ‘honeymoon’ period, where they are really getting to know each other and spend time with each other and build that foundation.   I think new poly relationships end up being the same.  We have new people, and it’s new and exciting and we also have a LOT of foundation to build and a lot of growth to work out and the original relationship does get sidelined a bit.  For a monogamous person this probably feels like abandonment and for the poly person we have to focus ourselves to maintain our original castle as well.  Can’t let it fall into disrepair while we’re building.

For an experienced poly person this is probably second nature.  But most people in poly/mono relationships are building their new castles for the first time and have relatively little experience in managing multiple relationships.  Its’ new for them too.  We don’t come into this as pros and there isn’t a rulebook to follow  Equally, there isn’t some guideline on how much time you spend with each partner, just like we don’t have rules around how much time you have to spend with all your different friends and if you spend more time with one friend than another you’re doing the other a disservice. 

Because life isn’t like that way. Life isn’t about ‘keeping it even.’  And what and who you need now isn’t always going to be the same.   And typically, people first discovering poly really need those new relationships.  And the monogamous person really needs the security from the poly person.  That balancing act ends up landing on the poly person’s shoulders most of the time, and they do end up very torn about it.   In addition, when the monogamous person is angry, insecure or unaccepting in their stance, the poly person is likely to run away from them toward the new partner who is open and accepting of who they are, which exacerbates the issue - the monogamous person becomes more angry and feels more betrayed. 

It’s not a good cycle.  I know because I was definitely in this one as well.   And finally I was blunt - when you are like that I don’t want to be around you. I am not attracted to you.  I can understand your emotions, but when you fling them at me I’m going to retreat.   

I think I tangented enough with this one…. so

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Fourth came the sadness. She saw this more than the other aspects. She was so happy and free, like a beautiful little butterfly fluttering about freely. Free to do whatever she wanted, free to truly be herself.

This one makes the poly person feel guilty.  As your SO said, we don’t want to hurt you.  We aren’t trying to hurt you.  We aren’t out doing these things thinking I hope this hurts my SO, because I want them to suffer while I’m with someone else.   

At least for me, as I said, I had hoped my husband was poly. I had hoped he dreamed of other women.  I had hoped he wanted other relationships too.  Hell, I would have even been ok if he’d cheated on me so that I could forgive him and hug him and tell him I stilled loved him and it was ok and we could talk about it and work it out and the see other people.  I felt this way even before I really understood I was polyamorous.   And we feel that way because hey - if they want other people too, then I don’t have to feel guilty about it.  And it will be easy.  And I don’t have to hurt them.  And they will accept me and understand me. 

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She seemed saddened by this and asked, innocently, if I would like to spend time with him, or with her.

I said that no, I did not care to meet these two other people. I knew of them. She did not hide their identities from me. But I did not want to know who they were or where they lived or what she did with one, or the other.

We would love to know that our monogamous partners - all our partners - accept the other people we are with.  And while, I don’t expect that every partner ever like, spend time with, or get along with every other partner, there is a hope in a poly person’s eyes that they will.   That we could all chill in a room as one big happy family where everyone got along and sang kumbaya.   #pipedream

That being said, our other partners are part of who we are too.  When you are out in life, you talk about your SO - boyfriend or husband or wife or life partner - to others.  They come up in casual conversation.  “Oh you like hiking? My boyfriend does to!”   But when our partner(s) doesn’t want to hear about our other partners we have to clip our conversations, watch our words, walk on those eggshells, be careful how we bring things up, and conversations become a source of stress because of this added tension. 

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I was once that person that the polyamourous person opened up to. I was once that individual who tried to be the understanding one, the open-minded one, the one that loved this other person and wanted that person to be happy... But who ended up unhappy in the process.

I suppose one of the things I take from your story, is that just like I feel there are poly people who are hard-wired poly and cannot be happy any other way, there are also monogamous people are so hardwired they cannot be happy unless their relationship is monogamous.  Throughout your story, you never mentioned trying to date other people or forming your own new relationships, which leads me to believe in the theory that for some people, monogamy is a must. That they themselves cannot form multiple romantic relationships. From that, there are people who likely could accept their partner being poly, even if they themselves cannot do it.   And there are people who need their partner to be monogamous as well, and they cannot be happy in a relationship where their partner is not monogamous. 

And from that I’ll throw the axiom from More Than Two out. 

“The people in the relationship are more important than the relationship.”

Keeping the relationship at the expense or sacrifice of one person or the other is not worth it.  If you’re unhappy, you can’t make others happy.  You can try. You can fake it. But over time you’ll resent that they are happy and you are not.   And when you resent, you make bad choices and do things that ultimately hurt everyone involved.   I say that from experience.  I did that. 

“Forcing” the poly person to be monogamous is equally as hurtful as forcing the monogamous person to be poly.   In the end, someone will suffer and the relationship will suffer.  I don’t think you should ever feel bad for ending a relationship if you cannot be happy in it, because we must always as people ensure our needs are met and having our needs met is not selfish. 

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I hope this commentary was not seen as negative, because it was not the goal.

It wasn’t! I enjoyed everything you wrote, am honored your shared your experience with me, and hope that my replies will help shed light for the monogamous people (and plenty of poly as well) as yours shed light to me on what my monogamous partner was going through. 

Thank you <3
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 03:04:25 PM by Mintprincess »

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2016, 02:31:03 PM »
“Coming Out”

The LGBT community is extremely familiar with the term coming out, but I often feel it applies to myself being poly as well.  Double tie that with coming out as bisexual and I have to open myself up twice to judgement, questions, or whatever else people want to throw at me.   When it comes to E, coming out is so easy. People here are accepting, attempt to be understanding, and at the very least, I have faith in the staff to quelch any negativity that might emerge from someone who doesn’t agree with my way of life.  I would say I came out on E before I really knew I was out at all, stating that my E personality was bisexual and poly, that she was my other personality, because I’m a Gemini and therefore automatically have two anyway. 

Real life, however, is an entirely different picture.  Even internet life beyond E is different.  Places where you don’t know how someone will react result in a fear that disclosing who you are could have adverse consequences that you aren’t ready to face.   Those consequences could be against you or those you love, most specifically your spouse.  Because how could they just let you get away with being poly.  Isn’t that just a glorified form of cheating? Isn’t that hurting them so you can be selfish and do whatever you want?  Do they even still love you if they’re out with other people? 

Those are the questions you fear and those are the questions that keep you holding back.

But the first person you have to face is your spouse.  Coming out to your spouse is the scariest of all of them.  I said before that just because we are poly, doesn’t mean we don’t love our SO.  It doesn’t mean that the thought of living without them or losing them or hurting them doesn’t fill us with a sort of dread.  And how do you face the fact that if you come out with them, they could reject you for something that is at the core of your being?  The fear that upon finding out you are not who you and they thought you were, your entire relationship could end is enough to keep those words tightly guarded behind closed lips.

Which means living unhappy, living a lie, or hiding the little things we’re doing to keep ourselves sane.  None of these are good options.

I would love to say that I was strong and brave and came out because I knew it was the right thing for me.   But I wasn’t. I had my internet relationships in secret, my flirty nights, my writing partners, my forbidden feelings all hidden behind the wall of roleplaying.  It was roleplaying, even though I knew what it really was.  I didn’t admit to being poly until my spouse saw some of those flirty emails and asked, angrily, who was so-and-so?   Truthfully, someone I didn’t even have romantic feelings for but flirted with, because there were many of those around as well.   It was in that moment I realized that I couldn’t keep hiding who I was.  That it was hurting me.  It was hurting him.  It was causing me to hide things that ultimately would not stay hidden, that I didn’t really want to hide either.   So I replied that I was polyamorous and  the internet was my place to express that ‘safely’. 

If I could change one thing, it’s that I would have admitted it to him years before, after admitting it to myself.   That I would have accepted that it wasn’t some “E personality” but really me, and what I really needed, and that the thoughts and cravings I had to truly be with the other people I had formed bonds with in life were real.  I would have braved that storm rather than been swept away by it.   And while I can’t change that now, my advice is to accept who are you earlier rather than later. 

I don’t regret the mistakes I made, because making them got me here, to a place where I am happy and thriving and growing in my polyamorous nature.  But given the opportunity to do it again, I’d have made different - better - choices.

That leaves the rest of the public life for coming out.  Which I haven’t been brave enough to do. It’s one thing to be surrounded by strangers and giving your boyfriend and girlfriend a kiss. If they judge, you won’t see them again the next day. It’s another to consider your friends and family and wonder how they will feel if they knew.   I dropped all those questions before, because those are the questions that keep me from saying anything.  And then there is the really big question:

How does the spouse feel about their partner openly coming out as poly?  Telling the people he or she is friends with that hey, my SO has a boyfriend and/or girlfriend.  I haven’t even had the courage to ask about that…

 So I suppose the other things I’d like to say is that if someone comes to  you and trusts you with this piece of them, understand that opening up about being poly in a society that espouses “one man - one woman” and is transitioning to “Two people - man or woman” but is still not very open about the idea of “many men - many women in many configurations”, isn’t easy.  It takes a huge leap of faith, courage and trust and once admitted needs acceptance and support.  Just like LBGT, I know poly people who say they will never tell their parents or siblings they are poly because despite the fact that family loves them, they wouldn’t accept the person’s poly nature.

I hope that I won’t have to always hide who I am. I hope that as time passes and those in my life become more and more comfortable with who I am that slowly I can step out of my ‘closet’ and into the world and openly exclaim that I love multiple people and they are all important to me. 

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2016, 01:36:51 PM »
Don’t You Get Jealous? (intro)

This morning on the radio they were having people call and text about their unusual relationships.  The host said she received a text from a woman about the MFF relationship she’d been in for ten months and how it was the best thing she’d ever had.  In my head I’m nodding in agreement at that feeling because I know well how wonderful MFF can be.   And then the host says, “I just don’t understand how that works and how jealousy doesn’t creep in.”

And it leaves me wondering why jealousy is considered this emotion that YOU JUST SHOULD NOT HAVE EVER!  Does anyone ever say “I don't know how you have can have a relationship! Don’t you ever get angry?  Don’t you ever fight?  Don’t you ever feel sad?  Don’t you ever FEEL???”   Jealousy is just an emotion like anger, hurt, emptiness, hopelessness, unhappiness, rage, sadness, doubt, fear, worry, and frustration.   All of these emotions are part of being in a relationship and all of them can be addressed in a healthy and productive manner.

So can jealousy.

The next chapter in my book, More than Two is about jealousy. I haven’t read it yet, although I plan to this week.  But the fact that when poly came up on the radio, the first thing to be zeroed in on was jealousy just had me rolling my eyes. 

Jealousy like any other emotion has ‘good apples’ and ‘bad apples’ (I use apples since I used apples a few posts ago.)  And when you look at the apples you have to decide if your jealousy exists for unfounded and insecure reasons or if you’re feeling it for a very specific reason. 

Just like anger is often a secondary emotion because we were hurt, jealousy so too is an indication that something deeper is going on.  If we’re just being insecure, then the solution is simple: recognize the insecurity and address it.   If it’s because you were hurt, or are feeling neglected (Ie your partner is spending a lot more time with a new partner and you aren’t having your needs met) address it. 

Like all emotions there is a RIGHT and WRONG way to address them.   You all know those people who when they get angry are passive aggressive - or just aggressive - and release their anger in unhealthy ways that result in someone getting hurt.  And you know those people who when they are angry, go to the source and openly state “When you did this, I felt angry….”  It’s addressed and it’s over and done with and the relationship moves forward.  Jealousy is no different.

Anyway, I plan to write on this one a lot more of course, but I couldn’t help but feel a bit frustrated that poly is always associated with JEALOUSY as if people cannot handle this emotion and so it can’t possibly work.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2016, 01:48:56 PM »
What I've discovered is there are those who are hardly touched by jealousy (who hardly seem to experience the emotion at all) and those who are affected by it in a major way (or degrees in between). My experience of people I know who are naturally polyamorous is they don't experience jealousy in the same way that more naturally-monogamous people do. It touches them more lightly, whereas those who are prone to jealousy or territoriality can be taken into much darker and more painful places by it. I've also discovered that the person you're with can influence those feelings of jealousy, depending on how secure you feel in the relationship and with your partner/s. It's not just a reflection of your own feelings, but the aspects of your personality that your partner brings out in you.


Offline Lrrr

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2016, 07:16:52 PM »
After reading your comments MintPrincess, I have to agree with almost everything you mentioned.  What I'm really interested in are the practical ways of coping with jealousy.  And yes, I know I may just have to wait for the next installment, but I wanted to see if there were any thoughts you or anyone else on E had before that next part was posted.

Let me use another emotion as a counterpoint to hopefully shed more light on what I mean.  Like everyone else, from time to time I get angry.  The last time I can remember being angry was with my wife for leaving the garage door open when rain was predicted.  That evening, I spent about three hours carefully drying and cleaning up several thousand dollars worth of woodworking tools after they got soaked that afternoon.

I must admit that I didn't talk to her at all until late that evening for fear of my anger causing me to say things I would later regret.  The intervening hours did, however, cool my emotions enough that we had a civilized discussion and she apologized and promised to do her best not to let it happen again.  All was forgiven and we moved on with the episode nearly forgotten.

Now let me lay out another example but this time the subject of jealousy is the prime emotion.  Some months ago my wife and I visited a married couple who were old high school friends.  We hadn't seen them in literally decades and the visit started off being a very happy occasion for all four of us.  Keep in mind that I'm looking forward to my 50th high school reunion in a couple of years.  I'll call the husband Mike and the wife Chris just to make this easier to write.

Mike was a good friend of mine and Chris was a good friend of my wife's, and we were all friends of each other.  Mike had been my wife's boyfriend for about six months in high school before I began dating her.

An hour into our visit, my wife got up from her seat and walked past Mike who was seated on the couch.  Mike reached out and guided her to a seat on his lap.  I don't want to focus on whether this was appropriate behavior or not, only on my reaction and how my wife handled it.

As someone who is quite far toward the "extremely jealous and possessive" end of the spectrum, the feeling of possessiveness immediately came to the front of my thoughts with quite some force.  I expected my wife to get up and end the situation, but she didn't.  For the next half hour the four of us continued to carry on the conversation although I was saying less and less as the feelings inside grew in intensity.  Finally, I mentioned that we had to get going and my wife got up before we said our goodbyes and headed for the door.

You might think that would be the end of it, but despite my best efforts, I could not rid myself of the strong feelings that continued, although they did abate a little over the next few hours.  That night, I finally brought up the subject with my wife and her response was that she couldn't think of a way to get off his lap without being rude.  Seeing as how that was patently ridiculous, anger toward her was now added to my emotional load.  After all, how hard would it have been to say "Hey, I need some water (or any of a number of other things).  Excuse me Mike."

As an engineer, I am quite rational and logical by both nature and training.  But as most of us know, reason and emotions often don't talk to each other.  Yes, it had been fifty years since my wife and Mike were boyfriend and girlfriend and, even knowing there was zero possibility of anything else happening between the two as a result of her sitting on his lap for a half hour, that thought made little difference in how I was feeling.

My anger toward her was fairly short-lived, being gone late that evening when we talked and she apologized for not ending the situation more quickly.  And eventually my feelings of jealousy and possessiveness died down so that after a couple of weeks it didn't bother me even a little bit anymore.  Even now though, after months of occasionally thinking about the incident, I still haven't figured out what would have been a positive way of dealing with the jealousy and possessiveness.

What should I have done?  Tell Mike that his behavior wasn't appropriate?  Tell my wife to get off his lap?  The problematic emotions were mine, not theirs.  Clearly the best solution would have been for me to accept the situation and not feel jealous.  But simply telling myself that the jealousy was irrational would have been futile as most of us know.  Reason usually has no control over emotions, especially base emotions like fighting to keep your mate.

I know I have a problem with possessiveness and I've had it since I was a teenager.  I've brought it up several times in marriage counseling my wife and I have had as part of our wish to be proactive in heading off marital problems.  It has become a non-issue as we've aged since there aren't that many situations where a sixty year old woman gets advances from a male admirer.  And that seems to be the best solution as I look to the future ... try to avoid situations that produce those emotions in me.

I'm open to comments and even criticism of my actions and reactions.  Truly I am.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2016, 08:41:57 PM »
Clearly the best solution would have been for me to accept the situation and not feel jealous.  But simply telling myself that the jealousy was irrational would have been futile as most of us know.

I have to disagree with you there. As friendly as you all were, it was a line that Mike shouldn't have crossed. I would have genuine grounds for being annoyed, mainly with him for not respecting my relationship and my partner (he would have no right touching her), but also my partner for staying put. In that situation, I would've acted to change things so my partner no longer remained on his lap (one way or another). That's unless there was there was a pre-existing comfort level in place or this was something agreed in advance.

I'm not sure there's necessarily a right or wrong answer. It depends on both parties and your relationship.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 08:43:48 PM by AmberStarfire »

Offline CuriousEyes

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2016, 04:29:53 PM »
So here are some questions...

When/how do you think is the ideal time to identify yourself as polyamorous to a potential romance? Assuming of course you didn't meet in a situation where that status could be assumed. I have to imagine it's a fine line to balance.


Unrelated, have you had any experiences or reactions to outing yourself that have been unequivocally negative? And looking back at them do you think there's a way they could have been handled that would have been better?

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2016, 10:09:44 PM »
What I've discovered is there are those who are hardly touched by jealousy (who hardly seem to experience the emotion at all) and those who are affected by it in a major way (or degrees in between). My experience of people I know who are naturally polyamorous is they don't experience jealousy in the same way that more naturally-monogamous people do. It touches them more lightly, whereas those who are prone to jealousy or territoriality can be taken into much darker and more painful places by it. I've also discovered that the person you're with can influence those feelings of jealousy, depending on how secure you feel in the relationship and with your partner/s. It's not just a reflection of your own feelings, but the aspects of your personality that your partner brings out in you.


That applies for every emotion though.  My point was more that jealousy is no more or less a valid emotion when it comes to a relationship than any other emotion.   Some people feel anger stronger. Others get emotionally sad or distant or whatever else.   While I agree with what you are saying, jealousy isn’t the defining characteristic of people, yet it’s the one most often associated with poly relationships.

My opinion is that jealousy is tied to security.  I don’t think it’s that poly people feel it more or less than monogamous people.   I’m sure there are plenty of monogamous people that don’t experience uber strong jealousy either.   Jealousy is usually considered a secondary emotion that I feel is tied to fear of loss, uncertainty, insecurity.   Not necessarily in oneself, but in the relationship or the status of, or simply that whatever one is seeing or hearing about is filed into the ‘unknown’ category and thus opens up the natural can of fears that humans seems predisposed to turn to the moment they don’t have all the information right in front of them.

I wouldn’t stay I’m any less prone to jealousy when I’m in the same situation.  When I don’t -know- what’s going on with my partner.  But I also know that the better choice is to have faith in them and our relationship, to lay my fears aside and later talk to them about the situation so I can gain the information I need to put those fears to rest, rather than let my imagine assume the worst.

So I think it isn’t so much having the emotion or not having the emotion. It’s learning to handle it the same way you would expect someone with anger issues to learn how to manage their anger.  You wouldn’t go around and expect the world to change so that they didn’t always fly off the handle, but for them to learn to manage their emotions and deal with the issues in a healthy fashion.

To me, jealousy is no different. 

After reading your comments MintPrincess, I have to agree with almost everything you mentioned.  What I'm really interested in are the practical ways of coping with jealousy.  And yes, I know I may just have to wait for the next installment, but I wanted to see if there were any thoughts you or anyone else on E had before that next part was posted.


Thank you for your response to me Lrrr!  I appreciate the honesty in your story, and don’t think that I haven’t at times been where you are.  While I am going to think a little on it, my first thought was rather than focus on what your wife was doing to you, think about how she might been feeling in the situation: uncomfortable, unhappy, distressed, anxious.   She was put into a situation she was probably extremely uncomfortable with and left to solve it on her own.   Just as she could have asked for some water or to use the bathroom, a joking comment by you perhaps, “My wife does look on the lap, I think it’s my turn,” could have given her the excuse she needed to get up.

Your feelings are valid.  Feelings can’t be controlled.   We feel from a place in our mind that is beyond us to tackle.  We can control our bodies, our actions, our thoughts, and thus influence the situation and ultimately our emotional responses can change, but it’s ok to feel what we feel and acknowledge that and validate it. 

The other thing I’ve often done is take it as a compliment.  My SO is attractive to everyone else, and yet they are mine.   At the end of the day, they are coming home with me, to love me and hold me and kiss me.   And in my poly case, even if they love someone else, I know they still love me.  So yes, my heart might beat a little bit when I see flirting going on, but the moment those fingers remind me who I belong to and those words are whispered that I love to hear, I remember that we all can flirt and fun with others, but our hearts know where they belong.

Anyway, I’ll write more on this and the other posts soon.   It’s getting late but I didn’t want to wait too long!   Keep it coming <3

Offline Piper

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2016, 03:47:12 PM »
If I may, reading your first entry (which made me read more), it sounded a lot like me! I am married but have almost always been in another side relationship. I love my husband. I am crazy about him. He is my best friend and I don't ever want to break up. HOWEVER, I never feel 100% myself without another relationship. He and I have had threesomes (and moresomes) but for me, it wasn't (isn't) just about the sex. I have developed deep feelings for other people while still being married and in love with my husband. One relationship lasted over seven years, and my current side relationship has been over a year. BUT I am NOT open with my husband. I just cheat and oh how I hate that word, but the semantics of it is the truth.

I never find myself longing to be with my side boyfriend over my husband. (Nor does he wish to end his marriage for me). I can, for lack of a better term, compartmentalize each relationship. I can live and love fully inside one relationship and then live and love fully the other. BUT Because I am not open and honest with my husband (primary relationship), I just feel like a guilty cheater :( I know I could never even bring up polyamory to my husband. Not everyone can understand how I can love two people without one being less of something (or more) than the other.

Anyway, I just wanted to jump in here and chime in since it sounds like FINALLY someone understands where I am coming from.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2016, 02:32:05 PM »
I have to disagree with you there. As friendly as you all were, it was a line that Mike shouldn't have crossed. I would have genuine grounds for being annoyed, mainly with him for not respecting my relationship and my partner (he would have no right touching her), but also my partner for staying put. In that situation, I would've acted to change things so my partner no longer remained on his lap (one way or another). That's unless there was there was a pre-existing comfort level in place or this was something agreed in advance.

I'm not sure there's necessarily a right or wrong answer. It depends on both parties and your relationship.

I do agree with Amber on Mike that it's a line that shouldn't have been crossed, which has nothing to do with poly or mono but respecting personal space, boundaries and comfort zones.   I kinda already covered the issue with the partner and that she might have been uncomfortable, anxious, and genuinely needing help with the situation.  I don't know her, but I know that some non-confrontational persons will accept a situation rather than cause drama, although I know that's something as your spouse in this situation you sould know. 

I do think yeah, there would always need to be a pre-talk about those type of thing before it happened.

Ok must run!  More to come! Thanks for the comments! <3

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2016, 07:17:32 PM »
Mint: You're right that it's possible to feel stuck in a situation like that and not know how to deal with it (and discussing this has made me realise to what extent that's true). Women in particular can feel stuck, especially around someone who they feel they should be polite around. That makes Mike's behaviour even less acceptable/a bit more creepy.

Piper: I can't say I agree with you, but you're the one who has to live your life (not me or anyone else). It seems like this has hurt you in a way, and would hurt or destroy your marriage if your husband knew. When I say hurting you it's not because you're giving free rein to it. It's because you're in a situation where you know it wouldn't be accepted by your husband. That must create a weight on your heart, as well as your conscience. Why is it something you couldn't talk to your husband about (in terms of future possibilities)? I know he might ask about the past but is it just that or is it something you already know he'd be firmly against? Maybe it's not as impossible an option as it seems. In other words, maybe you could dig your way out. If he means so much to you, he doesn't deserve to be cheated on. However, as you've been with other people together, maybe he wouldn't be as against this as it seems.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 07:20:13 PM by AmberStarfire »

Offline LadyKrys

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2016, 09:11:51 PM »
Mint, I almost cried reading this. I was told about this blog from a friend of mine that is transitioning coming out as poly, and I can't do anything but agree with you.

As a teenager, I was never single long. I had fairly long relationships, but I always seemed to 'move on' quickly. I always had a boyfriend. What people saw as me being heartless was simply me loving more than one person, and transitioning. If I fell in love with a new person, I would get angry, confused. I had this idea in my head that I could only love one person, and that if I loved someone else I obviously didn't love the previous one anymore. So I would break up with them.

I was 18 when I first said that I was poly. I told my boyfriend of the time that I couldn't stand to be in a monogamous relationship, and we ended up breaking up. It was odd, as we had an arrangement spanning a few months that he didn't mind if I fooled around with my best friend. But as soon as I wanted to make that official, he backed away. I tried to proposition another friend that I was falling in love with, and got rejected and told to go back to my boyfriend. So I did. I went back and said that I would try to make it work. We lasted a little while longer until we both realized that we wouldn't work. I wanted kids, he didn't. I wasn't going to spend 'forever' with him if I couldn't have children. It was a dealbreaker.

Within a month, I was with another guy. I had been getting to know him for over a year, and I just fell in love with him. I still missed the previous boyfriend, and my heart was still aching. But the new one helped me through it. I told him right away I was poly. He said he would work with me on it, and I was so happy! Except for the next year and a half of my life, he secluded me and made me only HIS. I couldn't even go out with friends without him making me feel horrible ("Which one are you fucking now?").

In November, I started talking to a new group of people online. They were nice, they were open, they were just so loving. I got close to a couple of them and even participated in a bit of cyber sex. In January, my boyfriend found out. There was yelling, there was anger. But he said he would try and let me have my fun online. We broke up in February because he was so abusive and controlling. And yet again, I was in a relationship within a few weeks.

Except this time, I met two guys that were willing to share me. Both were online, and both loved me. And I loved both of them. One in Mexico (I'll refer to him as G.), one in the Philippines (I'll use E.), with me in the US. In July, I spent a week in Mexico with G. These two were my first time trying long distance, and it was my first time actually trying to be poly. And it worked.

Things got complicated in August when I fell in love with my friend here in town (I'll use M.). He knew about my boyfriends online, and he knew that E was going to come and move in with me in late Sept/early Oct. He wanted to try anyways. We spent a month with just us two in person and spent almost all our time together (with me still active online with G and E). Then in mid Sept, E moved in.

M knew I was poly, he had seen me interact with E. He knew I loved E. But that moment that he moved in, it finally clicked. We've been working out the kinks so far (M is sad because I can't spend most night in his arms), but just this last week E asked M if he wanted to sleep at our place more and essentially move in. Now we just need to work on G getting to the US.

Everything in this thread just rings true to me. The idea and feeling that I just can't be me in a monogamous relationship. I still pain for those that I've hurt along the way. Friendships destroyed, possible futures ruined. But I know that people heal, and in the end everything will be okay.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2016, 04:39:32 AM »

Ok must run!  More to come! Thanks for the comments! <3

Hello again, dear Mintprincess!

First, thank you for taking the time, effort, and care to come comment and post to my introductory thread.  I deeply appreciate your being my first, and for being so very gentle with me too.  It was a wonderful first experience indeed, my love.

Second, and with all seriousness, you and I seem to be in a similar place with polyamory, save that it cost me, among other things (and not for simply the reason of coming out full poly at last), a spouse about ten years ago who, it turned out, was hardwired to react in a most irrational and self-destructive way to ideas outside a rigid externally-socialized set of self-imposed bonds and negative self-images from others in a distant past, long before me.

Having since worked on reconciling the expectations of vanilla society and freeing myself from an externally-socialized and externally-enforced hyperconcern about what other people would think, I have finally settled into a system of cautious demisexuality and a structured approach involving shared honesty and emotional connection that permits deep and trusting life-commitments and practical, sane, stable relationships with more than one person at one time.  In ways that maximize the continuing probabilities that those relationships continue to work and that they tend to keep getting richer and more fulfilling over time.

It is expressed in my life as a gestalt type of group relationship, a closed polygon of at least three and no more than thirty carefully hand-picked personality types and body types, with the right mix of commonalities and differences, to both minimize any growth of contempt over time, and to maximize respect and tolerant inclusion over time as well.

It does take effort, mindful care, and thoughtful communications on a regular basis, but nowadays it is an actual and true background aspect of my own real life, as well as an important part of the research I was doing that led me by chance recently to discover elliquiy in the first place. 

In the event you have not had the time to return to that introduction thread since your first post, i posted a requested writing prompt last night as a "story" for Angelicant, and perhaps indirectly for her Animaniac SO too, but in reality it tells all about my own real transition to polyamory without actually saying so. 

if you have time, I would be honored if you did go back over there and take a quick look at it. 

This approach to good and fulfilling, emotionally healthy and respectful relationships with more than one person at the same time, and the discoveries about myself and others it has made possible in the past seven free years since being single again, have almost completely reshaped my own social life and genuine, open love life for the better, in every way.  Plus, pretty much freed myself of any concern or backlash over the idea or fears of what other people may think, about how I now live my own personally-reengineered life and manage to make it all work.

Thank you again, Mintprincess, for your kindnesses and compassion, and I do truly hope to become best friends with you too over time and distance in the near future, here on elliquiy <3

Elyse  :-*

Offline Timeless

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2016, 08:19:21 AM »
Firstly and foremost, I just want to apologize in advance if I offend anybody with my question. I have to admit that I'm definitely not knowledgeable when it comes to polyamory nor would I consider myself to be one. But I am mostly just very curious and would like to ask for anybody's opinion or even experience, but had anybody ever been in a relationship where all the trio, as in like say yourself, your partner and your other partner are actually in love with one another?

I'm mostly curious because I can see that mostly who had posted here are just mainly themselves as a polyamorous person but none who really mention about their partner actually loving their other partner and such?

Once again, I'm definitely not knowledgeable when it comes to this topic. But nonetheless, this blog had been rather enlightening and I give my thanks to those who share their own experience, emotions and their struggles.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2016, 08:27:49 AM »
Thank you all for the comments.   I'm a bit exhausted and busy at work today and I have so much I want to say to all of them. I'm hoping a good afternoon break will allow me time to reread everything (and travel back to that amazing intro!), write down responses to all your stories, and collect all my thoughts.  Let's just say today is a bit of a rough day for this little Mint!

But I did want to address your question Timeless --

The answer is yes.  I am part of a trio in which all three of us are couples and all three of us are together as a group of three.  We do things as couples and we do things as all three of us.   I love my girlfriend as much as much as my boyfriend and they are the same. I do plan to eventually blog about the dynamic when I have a chance and hope I can address all your questions about it.

I will say it was random chance luck I suppose that those feeling all developed that way, and I don't think it works to force it.  It has to feel right and natural.  But mostly definitely it does exist.

Offline Timeless

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2016, 10:24:57 PM »
But I did want to address your question Timeless --

The answer is yes.  I am part of a trio in which all three of us are couples and all three of us are together as a group of three.  We do things as couples and we do things as all three of us.   I love my girlfriend as much as much as my boyfriend and they are the same. I do plan to eventually blog about the dynamic when I have a chance and hope I can address all your questions about it.

I will say it was random chance luck I suppose that those feeling all developed that way, and I don't think it works to force it.  It has to feel right and natural.  But mostly definitely it does exist.

Thank you for the very quick answer! Let me just say, I'm happy for you that you are really happy in your relationship. I would love to read about this dynamic because I am curious on how it works along with the experience in that kind of relationship.

Offline Oniya

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2016, 12:09:04 AM »
Just as an addendum there is a term, that I believe originated in the poly-community, known as 'compersion':  the feeling of happiness you get when others are happy.  It's sort of the exact opposite of jealousy, which is when you feel upset when others are happy.  A triad doesn't need to be sexually 'linked' (i.e., all possible couples having sex with each other at some point), although a truly stable triad will generally have each member feeling compersion for the other two.

(Just like in all relationships, there are times when one might not, but positives dominating the negatives is pretty much a touchstone.)

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2016, 08:10:13 AM »
Just as an addendum there is a term, that I believe originated in the poly-community, known as 'compersion':  the feeling of happiness you get when others are happy.  It's sort of the exact opposite of jealousy, which is when you feel upset when others are happy.  A triad doesn't need to be sexually 'linked' (i.e., all possible couples having sex with each other at some point), although a truly stable triad will generally have each member feeling compersion for the other two.

(Just like in all relationships, there are times when one might not, but positives dominating the negatives is pretty much a touchstone.)

Oh my, Oniya!  Marvelous, darling!!!!   I love how you have stated this !! :P

What you have said here, about compersion, could not be more true, and is key to any kind IMHO of externally-giving social environment or social consciousness you may have towards others.  Compersion, the happiness and pride that one feels to see your own closest friends, or "peeps", being happy together around you, is the basis not only of really good poly structures, in whatever dimension of geometry, but the key element in even conventional vanilla binary pairings where the two members just naturally become good parents to kids too.  It is that positive and prideful feeling that you get to see other members of your local tribe, in that case your family, becoming and then staying happy in their interpersonal dealings with one another, right there at your doorstep in the family home.  It is a quality of you, actually, that is a basic part of your personality, and is a necessary prerequisite for a good "poly" polygonal structure to work and remain stable.

Siblings from a large and happy stable family, for example, armed with plenty of good positive family experiences to outbalance the otherwise usual negative sibling rivalries and such, are generally more easily suited and have a higher natural degree of compersive ability, as a whole, than do single children, or the classic "only-child" family product.  In general, of course, and only as I have seen and observed personally over time myself.

In my case,  I count myself exceedingly fortunate the this Universe equipped me with a strong and abiding natural tendency toward compersion, or pride in seeing others around me happy, and I draw energy from helping to make it so.  That makes me the opposite of isolated, a loner, self-centered or self-serving, or narcissistic, I suppose.

Instead, I naturally feel compersion as my most comfortable state of social equilibrium with those around me.  It is what always powered me through high school and college as outgoing, friendly, the life of the party sorta, a leader in on-campus social settings and "X-ities" social membership groups designed to bind students together into a social structure to last a lifetime.

It is what made me a natural nurturing parent, IMHO, and it is regrettably, the very thing that I see so many who live lonely and bitter, self-serving and self-centeredly solitary lives lack for the most part.

That is not to say anyone in our quint is perfect, good dog, I most certainly am not!!!  I too have little jealousies that creep in occasionally, all seeded by tiny insecurities left over from childhood.  So does everyone else, to some degree.  But mine are just that - tiny by comparison to the confidence I have in the promises and representations of the closed poly quint in which I am fortunate to be involved at this moment, and yes, we all five live together in the Center City area of Philadelphia and are all quite happy in any combination of sexual or other lighter play scenarios.  It means that none of us ever have to go elsewhere for open compassion and acceptance, company and mentorship, and mutual support, or go anywhere alone unless we want to, and there is that sense of freedom at being able to do just that.  It is an extension of what I loved about college, which was always having "peeps" around to hang out with and do things.  The entire TV sitcom "friends" was based upon a similar compersion between the primary characters, although there the sexual possibilities and events were watered down almost to the point of triviality to remain rated "G" to PG" in each of their sitcom scripts.

For me, my closed poly quint is exactly the same, like the "friends" TV show, except that among the five of us anything goes as far as physical, as well as social, settings and expressions.

There is a true sense of shared responsibility and concern for not either cheapening or violating the unity and preference we all feel, the "Trust Quotient" as it is called, among the five members, in that we do not go have relationships outside the quint, anymore than a binary married hetero couple would ordinarily go have relationships outside the marriage.  There, the structure provides a stupid-level of protection for either of the two parties being lazy, slothful, indulgent and selfish, jealous, and more, and yet it endures.

We feel the closed poly quint takes even more work than a conventional marriage, in terms of effort of its members to regulate behaviors according to the agreed-upon ideal and relationship rules we have self-imposed, but the positive results and benefits for us all are worth far more than the added effort. 

There is nothing like a sexy foursome or fivesome among true committed friends who are just as concerned, compassionate, loving and outgoing, and providing of emotional and relationship support and commitment towards one another, as are the best binary married couples.  We just have more interesting and varied options for sexual and social combinations that is all, and a built-in big family feeling all the time ")!!!

Yes, we are all five madly in love with the other four, each one of us.  Seriously, and sincerely! .....

Love to you, Oniya, All The Love !!!!!!

Elyse  :-*

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2016, 12:34:16 PM »
Just wanted to stop by with my support for the amazing Mint, and all the visitors of this blog. Really warms my heart to see the subject garnering attention in a positive light. Thank you, princess.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2016, 10:29:09 PM »
This is impossible to answer.  At present, bigamy is illegal in the United States.  You cannot legally have more than one spouse.

And another good question is, how would it work to have legally more than one spouse in the system we have.  Given that marriage is used for everything from who your insurance companies will cover to where your benefits will go to, mixing in more spouses can be beneficial or lead to system abuse.   What about the guy with ten wives so he can cover all of them and their kids on his insurance?  Or the person who claims it to get credit for a bunch of kids for one reason or another.   I don’t know that I’m going to focus a lot on this subject right now, mostly because I am first and foremost intending to write about my personal growth and journey, but I do appreciate these types of questions and also that they spark good discussion about poly’s place in the monogamous world when it comes to functioning in the legal system. 

So more will probably come. 

So here are some questions...

When/how do you think is the ideal time to identify yourself as polyamorous to a potential romance? Assuming of course you didn't meet in a situation where that status could be assumed. I have to imagine it's a fine line to balance.

I think you would need to do this before any type of commitment - even as simple as let’s go on a date - is made.  A person may choose not to date you if you’re poly, because that isn’t something they can handle, and by denying them this information, you’re taking away their right to make an informed choice.  Does this sound easy?  I don’t know. I’m sure it’s not.  But at the same time, if you’re poly, you’re looking to be with someone who is going to accept that side of you.   If you come out and say you’re poly, you have other relationships from the start and they drop you like a rock, it wasn't’ going to work anyway.   So for me, I will likely if that situation comes up be up front from the start. 

Quote
Unrelated, have you had any experiences or reactions to outing yourself that have been unequivocally negative? And looking back at them do you think there's a way they could have been handled that would have been better?

I haven’t outed myself enough yet to have one of these thankfully.  So far everyone I’ve told has been accepting, but a good percentage of my real life doesn’t know. My sister and my mother I’ve told, but beyond that, none of my RL friends or family is aware of this side of me, both the bisexual (although plenty of friends have seen the make-out-with-women-drunk-Mint so that’s probably no secret) or the poly.

I suppose like any information you share about yourself, you have to consider the audience who is receiving it and what their reaction is going to be.   How you deliver the message is probably as important as what you’re saying.   If, for example, we decide to tell our friends, we’d need to do it in a way that first explains that we are still happy together and that isn’t changing, and that we’re making choices that are for our happiness.   That our decision also doesn’t Impact that person or their relationships with us either.   

I mean, if you start out with “we’re poly and seeing other people” vs, “We love each other and want to tell you about how our relationship is growing.” it probably sets that stage a bit differently. But I’ve never really had to face that.  My sister and I are always open anyway and love and accept each other and really like I said she was not surprised.   My mother is a bit prude and struggles to talk about things but she accepts and manages and sometimes I make her listen anyway. 

So I suppose when / if I do have another coming out, I’ll blog about that too, each and every one of them, and hope that provides some insight! 


If I may, reading your first entry (which made me read more), it sounded a lot like me! I am married but have almost always been in another side relationship. I love my husband. I am crazy about him. He is my best friend and I don't ever want to break up. HOWEVER, I never feel 100% myself without another relationship. He and I have had threesomes (and moresomes) but for me, it wasn't (isn't) just about the sex. I have developed deep feelings for other people while still being married and in love with my husband. One relationship lasted over seven years, and my current side relationship has been over a year. BUT I am NOT open with my husband. I just cheat and oh how I hate that word, but the semantics of it is the truth.

I also hate that word and hated that word and even when I did cheat in the real world, it just never seemed to really match the situation I was in.  Regardless, it was dishonest and it hurt someone I cared about because I wasn’t being honest with them, and when they found out they felt betrayed.   I would say that it took almost two years to really truly work to understanding the emotions behind me making that ‘mistake’ and why I did it and what had really broken inside me to lead to that.   

If I could go back, I would not make the same choice. I don’t regret the choice, because I’m still here today where I need to be, but I would have done it differently.   

Quote
I never find myself longing to be with my side boyfriend over my husband. (Nor does he wish to end his marriage for me). I can, for lack of a better term, compartmentalize each relationship. I can live and love fully inside one relationship and then live and love fully the other. BUT Because I am not open and honest with my husband (primary relationship), I just feel like a guilty cheater :( I know I could never even bring up polyamory to my husband. Not everyone can understand how I can love two people without one being less of something (or more) than the other.

Anyway, I just wanted to jump in here and chime in since it sounds like FINALLY someone understands where I am coming from.

I carried that guilt all my life, and yet parts of me never felt guilty.   I didn’t feel bad about what I was doing moreso that I knew he wouldn’t like it, or wouldn’t like not knowing about it.   I didn’t feel like being with others and loving others was wrong.  But I can say I knew that not telling him about it was wrong.   

The problem is that scary line right there:  I know he’ll never understand.  I’m afraid to bring it up because he won’t understand.  I really truly thought that too. Even after I told him I thought that for a long time.  And that leads back to my post about the castle you’ve built you still love dearly and want even if you want some other castles too.   Time and effort have gone into that primary relationship and you don’t want to lose all that.   




Piper: I can't say I agree with you, but you're the one who has to live your life (not me or anyone else). It seems like this has hurt you in a way, and would hurt or destroy your marriage if your husband knew. When I say hurting you it's not because you're giving free rein to it. It's because you're in a situation where you know it wouldn't be accepted by your husband. That must create a weight on your heart, as well as your conscience. Why is it something you couldn't talk to your husband about (in terms of future possibilities)? I know he might ask about the past but is it just that or is it something you already know he'd be firmly against? Maybe it's not as impossible an option as it seems. In other words, maybe you could dig your way out. If he means so much to you, he doesn't deserve to be cheated on. However, as you've been with other people together, maybe he wouldn't be as against this as it seems.

I will agree that it’s hurting you too, because you aren’t being free to be yourself.  Like I was, you’re living in a closet, keeping your secrets because it’s easier than not.  But I also completely understand it, and know that moving out of the closet is scary and hard, and cutting off the other relationships is impossible, will lead to making you unhappy and cause your first relationship to suffer anyway.  Been there.  Done that.  Dealt with it all.    That fear of losing the one you love is as powerful as the need to be free to have those relationships.  And they battle in you and keep you feeling caged and bound during the whole of your life.

And Amber, I would say after reading GMCs story it isn’t so easy to just come out.  You highly risk losing the one you love in the manner that happened there.  And while in the end that might result in both parties being happier, that change is scary for the poly person to imagine.   We’re scared to hurt our loved one with the truth.  Scared to be rejected by them for the truth.  Scared of anger or blame or accusations because they don’t understand us. 


Coming out isn’t easy. 

That being said, I think it’s worth considering Piper, and if you want to talk to me my box is always open.   Your guilt isn’t healthy for you either and if he ever did find out, you may lose him whereas you wouldn’t if you were honest.  It’s such a hard place to be in.  I know that.  I still have plenty of secrets tucked away in places I think they should stay forever.    I also recommend the More Than Two book for you as well (linked in my first post).  It has a lot of thoughtful questions that help you think through these very concepts.



And with that, Mint is blogged out.   I have a post to go back and edit, and the following amazing people to comment to still: 
  • LadyKrys
  • beastlover
  • Timeless
  • Oniya


Just wanted to stop by with my support for the amazing Mint, and all the visitors of this blog. Really warms my heart to see the subject garnering attention in a positive light. Thank you, princess.

Thank you sweetheart.   It’s my every intention to provide a place where people can learn more about polyamory either for themselves or for someone they know, care about or love, or just to become  more open-minded and informed on yet another alternative way of loving.  I’m glad you’re enjoying it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 10:37:47 PM by Mintprincess »

Offline CrownedSun

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2016, 12:17:27 PM »
This is an amazing thread, and I just wanted to say that I relate to so much of what I read here,-- poly myself, for the record, and I might talk more about that in another post since I have some insights even if I haven't actually had an actual poly relationship outside of online and even then only for a few (glorious) weeks,-- I actually had a lengthy-ish story to share but I deleted it because it wouldn't be appropriate to air here.

For numerous reasons.

But, I wanted to thank Mint for posting this and everyone else for sharing their own stories. :D <3 <3

Offline PennySludt

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2016, 06:56:59 PM »
Minty, darling! I'm going to be reading through here, because I am very much poly! I just haven't had a decent chance. But I'm so happy to see this! :D Thanks for sharing! :-) *hugs*

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2016, 08:47:12 PM »
This is an amazing thread, and I just wanted to say that I relate to so much of what I read here,-- poly myself, for the record, and I might talk more about that in another post since I have some insights even if I haven't actually had an actual poly relationship outside of online and even then only for a few (glorious) weeks,-- I actually had a lengthy-ish story to share but I deleted it because it wouldn't be appropriate to air here.

For numerous reasons.

But, I wanted to thank Mint for posting this and everyone else for sharing their own stories. :D <3 <3
  Thank you so much! I would love to hear whatever parts of your story are appropriate that you wish to share and glad that my own words are so insightful!   As an aside to that, most of my online relationships didn't last long either (a few months or so), which I attribute a lot to not knowing who I was or what I needed.

I will be (I keep saying this! Need more time!) blogging about the dynamics of a trio from my perspective and experience and the insights I have into poly from that. 

Regardless, Thank you for the support!!! And the <3s. I love <3s!


Minty, darling! I'm going to be reading through here, because I am very much poly! I just haven't had a decent chance. But I'm so happy to see this! :D Thanks for sharing! :-) *hugs*
  I had that feeling about you from reading your own blog and a lot of the things you've talked about!  Welcome to my blog and I canot wait to hear if you have insights too! Your own pieces are such a delight to read, I imagine what you say about poly will be the same.

<3



#Halloween  #exhausted

Offline beastlover

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2016, 09:01:22 PM »
Oh dear beloved Minty!!! I admire your incredible self so very much!!!  I just HAD to say that, reading your most recent posts here.   :-*

All my love for you Minty,  O:)

Elyse  ❤️

Offline CrownedSun

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2016, 09:13:05 PM »
  Thank you so much! I would love to hear whatever parts of your story are appropriate that you wish to share and glad that my own words are so insightful!   As an aside to that, most of my online relationships didn't last long either (a few months or so), which I attribute a lot to not knowing who I was or what I needed.

I will be (I keep saying this! Need more time!) blogging about the dynamics of a trio from my perspective and experience and the insights I have into poly from that. 

Regardless, Thank you for the support!!! And the <3s. I love <3s!

I am a never-ending source of <3's, so no worries there.

One thing that I can say, about stable poly trio's, is just-- I decided, not all that long ago, that that was in many ways my perfect ideal probably-doesn't-exist-in-real-life relationship. Specifically, I would absolutely adore being the third in a stable married-couple's MMF poly relationship. Like, that's the kind of relationship that I dream of,-- not just being the guy on the side for the wife, though, but actually being an integral and important part of the relationship as a whole. Loved and cherished; appreciated; -- at a minimum, friends with the husband, though honestly I'd prefer a more sexual element there too. The kind of thing where all three of us can get together and express our love for each other.

It's just the kind of thing that's been on the periphery of my awareness for a while, something that I knew I was interested in,-- I've got a lot of casual interest in swingers, "hotwives", and so on,-- but it wasn't that kind of transitory casual side-relationship that really appealed to me and that I fantasized about but something a lot more meaningful and even 'permanent'. (As permanent as anything is, anyway.) It was kind of a revelation when I realized that was what I dreamed of, more than the idea of marriage itself or monogamy or anything like that but just being a part of something and making it stronger and better.

<3 <3

Anyway, that's a few rough thoughts on the subject from me, in any event. :D

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2016, 09:25:37 PM »
As someone in a poly triad/trio that has two guys and myself I can say that they exist. :) For what it's worth.

Offline beastlover

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2016, 09:26:16 PM »
Oh my, almost forgot, I should have known too, that with this astute and so honestly expressive and insightful blog concerning self-revelation and self-examination of our truest inner selves - that you would attract all the very best folks here on elliquiy too, in beautiful, resonant harmony ... of spirit and heart ! 

Like lovely Penny about whom I care a great deal, I see, and Sun too!!!  Oh, and so many others too, wow!

Minty, I feel humbled and incredibly honored that in the company of these kinds of folks here, that you even tolerate someone as lowly as me here too  :-[ .... but it just makes me love you even more, beautiful Princess !!!  Thank you  O:)

Love,

Elyse ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ <-...well you DID say you loved hearts ... ;D

Offline CrownedSun

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2016, 09:51:06 PM »
As someone in a poly triad/trio that has two guys and myself I can say that they exist. :) For what it's worth.

I didn't wanna go into TOO much detail, considering that the blogs are public and all, but rest assured that my poly trio-fantasy is totally unrealistic and unlikely to exist in real life. <3

Probably not IMPOSSIBLE, though.

Oh my, almost forgot, I should have known too, that with this astute and so honestly expressive and insightful blog concerning self-revelation and self-examination of our truest inner selves - that you would attract all the very best folks here on elliquiy too, in beautiful, resonant harmony ... of spirit and heart ! 

Like lovely Penny about whom I care a great deal, I see, and Sun too!!!  Oh, and so many others too, wow!

Minty, I feel humbled and incredibly honored that in the company of these kinds of folks here, that you even tolerate someone as lowly as me here too  :-[ .... but it just makes me love you even more, beautiful Princess !!!  Thank you  O:)

Love,

Elyse ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ <-...well you DID say you loved hearts ... ;D

Hehehe, Beasty, you are absolutely adorable. <3

(Also, damn, that quad-thing that you described earlier in the thread sounded very very nice.)

None of this lowly stuff, though, you're totally one of the 'very best folks' what was attracted to this blog. :D But, you're very kind to say that none the less.

*kiss on the cheek*

Here's some more hearts: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2016, 02:03:12 PM »
*sneaks into the blog to wave to Minty*

Mainly I wanted to say that it's been insightful to read over your blog here, and emotional as well. I imagine like many in this world who are conditioned and traditionally see singular (1x1) relationships as the norm, what Poly is like for instances where it is successful and does thrive. I've certainly been inundated time and again with the ideas that it is wrong, selfish, impossible, and so on and so forth. Which I never fully believed myself, as how could there be definitions for a thing like that, if there weren't people out there who had been successful at it to the point it needed definition.

As well, as someone contemplating whether I should make one of these blogs myself and perhaps open up a bit more to this community on E in general through it, I want to say I think you are very brave and also proud to have written all of this out here and for inviting people to express their questions and thoughts as well.

Not to mention, I think you are brave as well for going for what makes you happy, knowing what that is, and having the courage to admit it. Through personal experience, I know how daunting that can be, as silly as it may sound. I hope everything works out splendidly for you :)

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2016, 06:24:26 PM »
So here are some questions...

When/how do you think is the ideal time to identify yourself as polyamorous to a potential romance? Assuming of course you didn't meet in a situation where that status could be assumed. I have to imagine it's a fine line to balance.


Unrelated, have you had any experiences or reactions to outing yourself that have been unequivocally negative? And looking back at them do you think there's a way they could have been handled that would have been better?

Mint asked me to chime in on my thoughts so....

When/how has changed a lot for me over time. Originally I was sort of the get to know a person first, see if there's anything there and then broach the subject but that's changed a lot over time. Now I'm straight forward about it right up front, though that's not even in a potential romance way. I happen to live a life where I don't need to hide that I am in a relationship with two amazing men, at least not most of the time. My parents know, my friends know, people I interact with for longer than just a passing moment tend to find out. It's such a part of who I am now, and if someone can't accept that, as a friend or a potential lover, than that's not someone I want in my life.

Back when I was more reserved about it, it was fine being friendly but the moment it would edge into flirting I'd talk to my partners at the time and figure out a way to proceed. Granted I'm still pretty oblivious, as I was then, so I didn't always catch on. I've found that being honest never hurts though, you might see it as something that 'ruins' the potential for something but I've found in observation and practice that the earlier it's disclosed the more heartache you avoid.

I've been surprisingly lucky with my coming out experiences - my parents who are very Southern in some ways didn't even blink an eye, though they were more surprised by the pansexual bit. Granted I think it was so easy because my mother is very much a free spirit and we have a relationship that sometimes leaves me being the one that's uncomfortable with details revealed. But those awkward moments are worth being able to talk to her about my struggles in my poly and D/s relationships and get some really good advice. I've had a few friends be slightly off put, but most of them take the stance of "Just live your life."

The worst experience I've had in being poly was with my first boyfriend outside of my established relationship. He was with me because he wanted me, but the fact that I was poly and not intending to leave my now ex for him resulted in said boyfriend getting super drunk, going to the ER and asking why I couldn't love him enough.

With my current partners I know that it was really hard coming out as poly for my Mister to his family, they are really religious (my family is so not) and it's frowned on. It was rough, and they don't really approve but even then it's more of a "We love you, and we will always love you and we aren't going to talk about this more" stance.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2016, 06:31:49 PM »
Firstly and foremost, I just want to apologize in advance if I offend anybody with my question. I have to admit that I'm definitely not knowledgeable when it comes to polyamory nor would I consider myself to be one. But I am mostly just very curious and would like to ask for anybody's opinion or even experience, but had anybody ever been in a relationship where all the trio, as in like say yourself, your partner and your other partner are actually in love with one another?

I'm mostly curious because I can see that mostly who had posted here are just mainly themselves as a polyamorous person but none who really mention about their partner actually loving their other partner and such?

Once again, I'm definitely not knowledgeable when it comes to this topic. But nonetheless, this blog had been rather enlightening and I give my thanks to those who share their own experience, emotions and their struggles.

Like Mint I'm in a poly triad as well, Timeless.

It took a lot of time for this particular dynamic to form, I was with my Mister several years back, eventually started dating my Captain as well. Mister and I broke up for a period of time, eventually got back together and then the same thing happened between Captain and I. The three of us have had other people/partners in our lives as well. It was just this past Valentine's that we had our first threesome date -- the guys took me to an amazing museum exhibit I was dying to see and we had a lovely dinner out and I got the biggest stuffed unicorn and tulips. I'm dating both of them, and both of them are dating each other as well. Mister has another girlfriend, and Captain has a lover he sees a few times a year who's a very close friend.

It isn't always easy, but it's very much worth it. The three of us are actually looking at moving in together in the next few months which is super exciting. I work to always be very supportive of their other relationships, and of their relationship together, and they do the same with me. It's just a matter of communication and love.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2016, 05:26:51 PM »
It's such a part of who I am now, and if someone can't accept that, as a friend or a potential lover, than that's not someone I want in my life.

Thank you Wisti <3    And I really love this line right here. I'm not there yet, but I want to be someday.   I want to be able to stand up and say this is who I am and if you want to be in life you will love me for who I am.   


So wow! It’s been a really long two three? weeks for me.   And due to events that have felt like a that bus that ran over the chick in final destination, this blog kinda sat on the back burner.   I’ve wanted to write. I’ve wanted to reply. I have so much to reply to, so much to say, so many off-here questions to post up with my answers and it’s all quite a jumble in my head.   And I’ll get there and please keep the questions and stories and thoughts coming!  <---- wrote that a week ago too! 

But I am mostly just very curious and would like to ask for anybody's opinion or even experience, but had anybody ever been in a relationship where all the trio, as in like say yourself, your partner and your other partner are actually in love with one another?

I found a really good picture the other day that I want to share. 



What this says to me, and one of pieces of our trio we talk about is that the couples on the outside of the triangle have to be strong for the whole triangle to be strong.  I really like the second picture though.  What it says to me isn't that you are responsible for building the relationship between the other two or mediating, or fixing things, but that you are responsible for supporting the relationship between the other two.  When they need time, you give it.  When there are problems you support them both equally.  You feel and share joy that they are in love and and couple.  And if all three people are doing that for all three other couples the whole triad grows stronger.

The last picture speaks of communication.   To have shared value and purpose, you have to communicate. Openly.  Honestly.  About everything.   So a successful triad is founded on the ability to talk about the good and the bad with all three people and share in the responsibility of ensuring you're all going in the same direction.

For me, a trio has been the most fulfilling relationship I've ever had. 

Just as an addendum there is a term, that I believe originated in the poly-community, known as 'compersion':  the feeling of happiness you get when others are happy.  It's sort of the exact opposite of jealousy, which is when you feel upset when others are happy.  A triad doesn't need to be sexually 'linked' (i.e., all possible couples having sex with each other at some point), although a truly stable triad will generally have each member feeling compersion for the other two.

(Just like in all relationships, there are times when one might not, but positives dominating the negatives is pretty much a touchstone.)

I feel you have to have this for a triad to work, but I think even an triad there are going to be moments of jealousy.  But as I spoke before, there is healthy jealousy and unhealthy jealousy.  There is jealousy because your own needs aren't being met, or something is very wrong in your relationship, and there is jealousy because you are feeling insecure.

My opinion on emotions however is that all feelings are valid.  All actions are not.

But I do think that if you don't feel happiness that your partners are happy together too, then a triad (and perhaps poly) will be a struggle for you.   I feel a lot of joy when I know my partners are happy, when they share something with me that they did together and enjoyed or just that they got to spend time together they need.   And I know that they feel the same way about me and my two relationships. 

I wrote more than I planned to write, and I expect sadly to be kinda busy over the next week, but I got started and just started writing.  I feel like there is so much to say and discuss on all these ideas and I can't wait to do more! <3







Offline SweetSerenade

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2016, 03:23:59 PM »
How to start things off...

Thank you Minty for being such an amazing writer, and blogger, when it comes to your journey on Poly. I returned from a long absence on E - to find so many interesting things have popped up.

Like you I spent time in a singular relationship, and then discovered my poly nature. Of course I discovered poly when I was quite young, like sixteen, but that was also in my "I think I only like girls" phase. Surprisingly my teenage years, while I did not have the same teenage years that many did, were actually really formative towards the woman I would become. I discovered my sexuality because of my teenage years, and I discovered my relationship standings because of it.

I would generally offer 'open' relationships to my partners, my rules was "I want to know them, I want to approve of them." That was how it was for years, because I was constantly belittled for 'loving many people'.

Enter my adult years and the relationships I started forming there.

My Full Poly realization came with the man that is currently my husband. We are open and poly, meaning we are open to both love and sexual relationships outside of our marriage. Our personal dynamic is very... interesting. We saw it as a way to find people to fulfill some of the needs that we ourselves could not complete for our partners. We did not see it as a negative, we saw it as a positive. We are open to my family, but not open to his.

Now on to the interesting dynamics that have developed in a year.

The Kakashi that I started crushing on April almost two years ago... Admitted he was seriously interested in me (back in July). We spent a weekend together in a hotel room with my husband, and in one night I got more physical touching from that person (I say person because he is gender fluid, but is male dominant usually) than in the year or so (at that point) we had been together. But I understood their past and gave them full control of the pace of the relationship.

My husband is friends with Kakashi, but not interested in Kakashi in 'that way'.

Kakashi is in an open/poly relationship, where their partner knows there is a few people from 'before' but doesn't feel a need to know that the relationships are happy. They are secure (the partner of Kakashi's is gender fluid as well) in themeselves and relationship to a point they really don't care that much.

Now on to the next stage.

During this summer I started up on an online academy, got closer to someone I used to know from another online academy. She was in a relationship with another person from the online academy, and they are sort of engaged to be engaged. He lives in Brazil, she lives in the US. I ended up falling for both of them. Now mind you, I consider myself Sapiosexual with Heteromantic tendencies. I had a discussion with her, recently where I tried to explain that how I love women is not the same as how I love 'males'. I am generally not as romantic or sexual with females, though I can gain those attachments. It's not something I can change about me. So the dynamic for a bit there was Me with my husband as Primary, and my relationship with Kakashi doesn't really have a 'title' but we are both very caring for each other. Then added in these two new people.

Hubby starts talking to the couple, and gets close to the girl. Ends up falling for her, her falling for him. So My husband is involved with the female I am involved with. But not involved with the male of the couple, while I am involved with both.


So that's where I am sitting with my relationship stuff. I'm also trying to figure out how my relationship chart would even look at this point... XD

Sorry for rambling.


Overall I have had a working Poly relationship with my husband for over six years, with almost three of those years being with us married.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2016, 04:39:27 PM »
I am still enjoying all your stories that you post! I'm sorry that my life has been so crazy busy I haven't found the energy for good replies and more blogging.  But I will.  And I'm here.   And you all can always PM me if you have questions <3

Offline Exaelitus

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2016, 10:06:02 PM »
I don't mean to sound as if I am attempting to challenge your view--and I highly doubt mere text on a screen from a random stranger on the internet would be possible to do so, but to explain myself and ask as candidly as possible, I was raised and spent most of my life in San Francisco. I've seen the poly, the pan, the trans, alt and whatever things you can imagine, I can come up with a situation I have witnessed, known someone who does it, or maybe even discretely experienced; I consider myself pretty open. I've seen all sorts of relationships and how they function, both the good and the bad of polyamory and polygamy, swinging--as I said, name it, and I have some personalized view or running commentary.

As for my own background, I am monogamous, and legitimately bisexual--which often surprises people when I tell them this...yet, after that long introduction, my question regards the polyamorous ones who subtly imply derogatory thoughts of monogamous couples rather than simply chalking it up to the way an individual is wired--just as there are analytical thinkers and artistic thinkers, one can be taught to think the opposite way and receive positive enforcement to fit the mold, yet possess a natural affinity to the other; much like what you have described concerning the unhappiness of being monogamous. However, after experiencing monogamy and deciding that was not who you are, implications remain for those who it is for. Associating monogamy with a negative connotation with emotions such as 'jealousy', 'insecurity', and 'possession'; yet referring to polygamy to positive personality traits such as 'welcoming', 'inclusive', 'selfless'.

This is something common I have seen with many who are content with polyamory; is this directly the byproduct of concealing the nature of your relationship to avoid scrutiny, or possibly the rejection of some potentials who decided poly was not for them? Is this unintentional, and thought to be the best way to explain yourself? Or is there a consideration reserved for those who are strictly monogamous as being legitimately negative/selfish and merely conforming to the standards set by society? Is it self judgement based on the memory of what you were versus how you are presently?

I guess in short, is this association purposefully a subtle indication of how you think, or is this an instance of misuse causing unintended perceptions?

By asking you directly, I am not intending to sound confrontational. It is simply a question based on what I view as a trend, but I find it easier to ask a stranger on the internet rather than a friend to avoid damage controlling a misunderstanding and I am interested to find out what you have to say about this.

Offline Oniya

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2016, 12:13:23 PM »
As a random stranger who identifies as poly, I personally accept that some people are naturally monogamous.  No shame in it.  However, before I got married, a very wise woman told me that there were three things that we should be sure that we agreed on - how money is handled, whether or not we wanted kids, and whether or not we were going to be poly or monogamous.

If you're going to enter into a legal relationship with someone (one that requires documents to get into and out of), these are the sorts of things that should be discussed before it comes down to both people being unhappy.  Yes, it's possible to 'learn' to live the other way, but one should be aware of what they are signing up for and enter it with at least a genuine desire to do so.

As far as 'rejection of some potentials who decided poly was not for them':  I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'potentials', but going back to my 'three questions' anecdote, let me ask this in return.  If a man or woman had made the decision that they didn't want children, wouldn't it be reasonable for them to turn down partners that had expressed a great desire in having children?  Would it be fair to either party if they made a commitment to each other, knowing that one of them is going to end up in an undesired situation (either a child-desiring partner deprived of having kids, or a child-free partner having one or more children.) 

Offline Exaelitus

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2016, 01:45:52 PM »
I believe you may have misunderstood the nature of my question by selecting to focus on a sentance length detail rather than the main idea, but your input is still valued. I think you were referring to this portion of what I said:

Quote
...individual is wired--just as there are analytical thinkers and artistic thinkers, one can be taught to think the opposite way and receive positive enforcement to fit...

This is not contesting the point that you made, and yes, ideally you want to make sure the same sentiments are shared about money, children, and sex are the three main deal breakers...but in no way am I stating one should go against the grain of what they feel to be their own nature. But my point was to question more often than not the poly commentary of the mono opinion--the belief that the notion of singular life long relationships are merely machinations imposed by society and unmatural to the way humans really are. Often it is expressed numerous times with references toward 'the institution of marriage', or imposed by religion, or an ingrained notion nurtured by society. Such views are used, even expressed in this thread, yet people simply exist the way they are, and I think the reality is there is more content to an adult human being to chalk them up to 'simply following something because the rest of the world says so'. Collectively we like to say that about 'the sheeple', but individually, no one ever thinks that to be the case about themselves. That was more or less what this sentance was gently referring to; the idea of poly= freedom, mono= controlled.

It was not meant to say if you want children and your partner doesnt then marry them and make them change their mind until they learn to love it. But yes, much like mono or poly, some people do inevitably decide to conform to one way or the other, and can will themselves to get by in that way; for example the mono husband who quietly fantasizes about a threesome but understands the consequences for attempting to achieve it, or the wife who badly does not want to be alone so she staves off the idea of a divorce by turning a blind eye to his mistress. It is a preference, not a need, and concealing displeasure for preferences is totally doable in the long term.

Speaking of "potentials", I am not scrutinizing being open and direct with a prospective partner, I am asking if the perceived bitter undertones when describing: poly = loving, mono = selfish, are the effect of criticism from monogamist individuals who reject the relationship because it does not align to their needs, if it is resentment for an existing memory of a mono partner choosing or attempting to exit upon the discovery that their preferences do not coincide, or is it a secret pleasure to feel a higher status over another person by arranging it in an 'us versus them' verbal picture?

To put it as directly as possible, I am asking what is the source of this implied resentment and if there is none, then why choose to express your insight in that way?


Offline Oniya

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2016, 04:00:47 PM »
Well, I have to say that when anyone starts referring to others as 'sheeple', they lose a lot of standing in my eyes, whether we share a similar lifestyle or not.  People are people.  Poly people that sneer at mono people as being somehow 'less' are pretty close-minded in my opinion - as are those who sneer at poly people for being 'promiscuous'.

I will say that a lot of people simply don't realize that there are more options than 'what the rest of the world says'.  When I was younger, I thought my religious choices were limited to Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or Muslim.  Atheism, agnosticism, and the rest of the thousands of religious beliefs around the world weren't even mentioned.  There are many people who are stunned to find out that they aren't limited to heterosexual relationships. 

Now, the examples you gave about the 'man with the threesome fantasy' and the 'woman overlooking affairs' start to fall into a question of what the rules are in their relationship.  Note that I didn't say 'society's rules', although they may coincide.  In both cases, the person seeking an 'other' (the man with the fantasy, and the one actually having affairs) is not taking their partner into account.  The man with the fantasy assumes that his partner would be irate - and maybe they would be.  The man having affairs doesn't care for his partner's input (or at least thinks that he's 'getting away with it'.)  As for it being doable in the long-term, the wife of the man having the affairs is going to be living with a lot of resentment - hardly 'fair' - and would be much happier with someone else, or even alone (despite her hypothesized desperation to avoid that).  As for the man not acting on his fantasy - well, that would depend a lot on why he has the fantasy.  Is it because there is a specific person that he wants to be with?  Or is it the stereotype of having two generic women at the same time?  Or even just the allure of the forbidden?  (Further considerations such as 'V-style threesome' or 'triangle-style threesome' would involve dealing with his partners' sexualities as well.  There's a reason that the HBB is considered as rare as a unicorn.)

There very well might be some people who resent prior partners for attempting to change their mind.  It's a common enough reaction to coming out of an uncomfortable living situation, and I've seen it in all sorts of contexts besides the mono/poly one.  Usually, after a period of being away from that situation, the resentment fades.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2016, 04:47:55 PM »
my question regards the polyamorous ones who subtly imply derogatory thoughts of monogamous couples rather than simply chalking it up to the way an individual is wired--just as there are analytical thinkers and artistic thinkers, one can be taught to think the opposite way and receive positive enforcement to fit the mold, yet possess a natural affinity to the other; much like what you have described concerning the unhappiness of being monogamous. However, after experiencing monogamy and deciding that was not who you are, implications remain for those who it is for. Associating monogamy with a negative connotation with emotions such as 'jealousy', 'insecurity', and 'possession'; yet referring to polygamy to positive personality traits such as 'welcoming', 'inclusive', 'selfless'.

This is something common I have seen with many who are content with polyamory; is this directly the byproduct of concealing the nature of your relationship to avoid scrutiny, or possibly the rejection of some potentials who decided poly was not for them? Is this unintentional, and thought to be the best way to explain yourself? Or is there a consideration reserved for those who are strictly monogamous as being legitimately negative/selfish and merely conforming to the standards set by society? Is it self judgement based on the memory of what you were versus how you are presently?

I guess in short, is this association purposefully a subtle indication of how you think, or is this an instance of misuse causing unintended perceptions?

By asking you directly, I am not intending to sound confrontational. It is simply a question based on what I view as a trend, but I find it easier to ask a stranger on the internet rather than a friend to avoid damage controlling a misunderstanding and I am interested to find out what you have to say about this.

Ok, so I’m going to first start with the statement that I’ve read this a number of times and it comes off sounding very much like you are saying that myself, Mintprincess, thinks this way, the same as all poly people think this way and you’re asking me why I think this way.  However, my trouble answering this is that I don’t agree with any of the things you’ve said poly people or me or the general you all say and think.

To start, I don’t see any ‘implications’ when it comes to monogamy.  When it comes to any ‘group’ of people, you are going to come across those who are open-minded and those who are closed.  Those who might say monogamy is negative are no less judgemental than those who would say poly people “non-committal” or “looking for an easy cheat”.   There are plenty of possessive, jealous and insecure monogamous people.  But those aren’t traits of monogamy.  They might drive someone to know they could never be poiy, but they aren’t traits of monogamy.  They are traits of a person.  Monogamy isn’t being jealous, possessive or insecure.  Monogamy is committing oneself to one person and one person only and receiving the same back.   Equally, poly people can be jealous, possessive or insecure most definitely.  Or people trying to be poly but whom it might not be natural can be jealous, possessive or insecure.   Those aren’t traits of being poly.  Neither is 'welcoming', 'inclusive', 'selfless'.  I’ve had a poly friend tell me he got judged by other poly friends because and he and his partner didn’t want triads with other males, which is damn sure his right and no one should judge them anymore than they would judge anyone else for who they love. 

So, given that I don’t hold those views, the best I can do is attempt to answer your question as to why some people may espouse those views.

My guess is that as there are some people out there who think everyone should be monogamous, or everyone should be straight, or everyone should be binary gendered, perhaps there are some poly people out there who think everyone should be poly and those who aren’t therefore are lesser or should be judged.   Those people would be just as closed minded as anyone else who dismisses the free choice of others to love who they love and thus, I will never understand why they think as they do and cannot attempt to explain why they would care who and how many other people love. 

It’s also possible that some poly people lost someone they cared for who could not change to poly from monogamy (see giantmutantcrab’s story as one) and in anger lash out against monogamy and those who fall under that umbrella.   They may be afraid of being judged because of things they have done or be rejected for who they are and lash out first against those who might in a self defense or self justification manner.  Or maybe they don’t handle their own transition from mono to poly well. I’ve talked about mine and it comes with a lot of bumps in the road, fights, guilt, feeling rejected etc. It can be very difficult to feel like you’re hiding yourself in a closet all the time.  It can be hard to feel like someone won’t like you because of who you are.  There are plenty of reasons I suppose someone might want to think of monogamy of negative.

But, thinking about it, answering your question is hard, because every time I read it, my thoughts are no more speculation than yours.  I have zero issues with monogamy as a social practice.  My issue is that it isn’t for me.   I have all the love and respect for all the monogamous people in my life.   I don’t know how much of my blog you read, but I included the lovely story of my aunt and uncle who just adore each other and I don’t think leave each other’s company unless they have to and it’s the sweetest thing ever.   

I’ll my last thoughts, a paste of a previous blog:

Quote

Again I want to thank you for sharing your story. I think it’s easy for the poly person to get so caught up in having their needs met that they can easily forget their monogamous partner has needs to.   I also believe a number of things that fit your situation:  that some of us are hard-wired poly or monogamous and simply can’t be happy ‘being’ one or the other, that if we are unhappy we cannot function to create happiness for others, and that we must ensure that our own needs are met.  Self-sacrifice for someone else at the expense of our needs might work in the short term, but eventually bitterness creeps in and that -need- for the needs to be met overcomes. 

============================================

I suppose one of the things I take from your story, is that just like I feel there are poly people who are hard-wired poly and cannot be happy any other way, there are also monogamous people are so hardwired they cannot be happy unless their relationship is monogamous.  Throughout your story, you never mentioned trying to date other people or forming your own new relationships, which leads me to believe in the theory that for some people, monogamy is a must. That they themselves cannot form multiple romantic relationships. From that, there are people who likely could accept their partner being poly, even if they themselves cannot do it.   And there are people who need their partner to be monogamous as well, and they cannot be happy in a relationship where their partner is not monogamous. 

And from that I’ll throw the axiom from More Than Two out. 

“The people in the relationship are more important than the relationship.”

Keeping the relationship at the expense or sacrifice of one person or the other is not worth it.  If you’re unhappy, you can’t make others happy.  You can try. You can fake it. But over time you’ll resent that they are happy and you are not.   And when you resent, you make bad choices and do things that ultimately hurt everyone involved.   I say that from experience.  I did that. 

“Forcing” the poly person to be monogamous is equally as hurtful as forcing the monogamous person to be poly.   In the end, someone will suffer and the relationship will suffer.  I don’t think you should ever feel bad for ending a relationship if you cannot be happy in it, because we must always as people ensure our needs are met and having our needs met is not selfish. 

Basically, I believe the same thing you said in your first line.  No judgement here. Love who you want.   I’ll read the other comments you both left later tonight.

<3 Mint

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2016, 05:00:54 PM »

Offline Exaelitus

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2016, 10:00:24 PM »
Thank you for your replies.

Offline WanderingBlackDragon

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #75 on: March 17, 2017, 08:18:52 PM »
This question may have been answered before, but just jumping into this blog, I'd like to throw it out for my own understanding.

In your words: What is the difference between being poly and simply cheating? In a poly relationship, is it possible to still cheat?

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #76 on: March 17, 2017, 08:29:29 PM »
A key facet of a poly relationship is that it's an arrangement that partners enter into willingly, and all partners are informed and accepting (and not under duress). Cheating implies deceit, but if there is none and everyone's okay with it, I would see that as poly but not cheating.

A poly person can cheat, but I'd see it as being a reflection of their behaviour more than their nature as a poly person or that they've entered into poly relationships either in the past or at the same time. In part it depends on the rules and guidelines established in their relationship/s.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 08:30:43 PM by AmberStarfire »

Offline Oniya

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #77 on: March 17, 2017, 08:51:10 PM »
This question may have been answered before, but just jumping into this blog, I'd like to throw it out for my own understanding.

In your words: What is the difference between being poly and simply cheating? In a poly relationship, is it possible to still cheat?

Short answer, yes.

Consider that 'cheating' is 'breaking the rules'.  In a monogamous relationship, one of the rules is 'don't have sex with other people', so it's pretty easy to spot cheating.  Poly relationships have their own rules - perhaps it's 'no unprotected sex without test results'.  Maybe there's something to do with meeting the other partner(s).  It's something that each individual poly-group comes up with together.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #78 on: March 17, 2017, 10:42:05 PM »
My short answer is "HONESTY"

Cheating is being dishonest.  It doesn't matter how many partners you have - one, two, ten - if you aren't honest with them all, then you're cheating.   Yes poly people can cheat.  Yes mono people can cheat.  The difference between cheating and poly is that poly is OPEN, ETHICAL, and HONEST.


Offline WanderingBlackDragon

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2017, 07:30:08 PM »
Yeah, I figured as much.

I'm still relatively new to the concept of Polyamory. Well, new to the official concept anyway. Some part of me has been interested in it for a couple of years.

I've also tried to explore the concept more deeply, joined a Poly social group on meetup. However, my experience has been on the disappointing side. Much of it equates to either being in a "club" setting surrounded by people I don't know and struggling to socialize, or in a room full of, for lack of better terms, SJWs and watching the poly discussions dissolve into identity political rants and one women talking up Islam like it's the most beautiful thing ever... Even though fundamentally it'd consider her lifestyle an abomination and demand its followers kill her and her lovers.

Anyway, I already have an idea of what I'd prefer in a poly relationship; a poly relationship where other guys aren't involved. And considering the kind of environment I've been to so far, I've been afraid to be more open about this because I'm concerned I'd be considered selfish, or sexist for essentially wanting a harem.

I'm not sure how to really go about this. But, for now I figured it'd be good to at least get my thoughts out instead of having them stew in my head.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #80 on: March 19, 2017, 07:36:30 PM »
I suppose what you need to ask yourself is this:  If you have a poly relationship with women, and they decide they do want another guy, because in poly it's not ethical to say what someone else can't do, what are you going to?

I know I would not date anyone, guy or girl, who wanted to put limits on what *I* could do.  Having their own boundaries (If my woman wants to date another man, then I will end the relationship) is up to you, but forbidding someone to do something usually doesn't end well.

Offline WanderingBlackDragon

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2017, 08:45:25 PM »
I suppose what you need to ask yourself is this:  If you have a poly relationship with women, and they decide they do want another guy, because in poly it's not ethical to say what someone else can't do, what are you going to?

I know I would not date anyone, guy or girl, who wanted to put limits on what *I* could do.  Having their own boundaries (If my woman wants to date another man, then I will end the relationship) is up to you, but forbidding someone to do something usually doesn't end well.

Sheesh. Typically I respond faster than this.

Anyway. As for what I'd do. Well, before anything I'd just want to talk about what relationship goals and ultimately what we're looking for. If she, or anyone else who wanted to get involved wanted to include or have relationships with other men, then I would respectfully opt out. I tend to operate under the "Don't put yourself in that spot" philosophy.

Of course, I'd be in no position to specifically forbid anyone from doing anything in a relationship, nor would I expect or appreciate that from my partner(s). I've already had similar stuff online, so offline wouldn't be any better.

I've been afraid of my relationship goals being interpreted as "Wannabe stud who wants to have a harem of sex slaves who sit around all day waiting to suck him off", so even when rping I've been extremely selective of who I try to engage this interest with. At the end of the day, everyone involved are human beings with feelings, desires and the like and anyone who treats their significant others like anything less doesn't deserve to be in relationship.

My disinterest in having men involved in my prospective poly relationship does come from a combination of several things that I'll get into in a later time. I would also like to delve more into what I seek in a poly relationship and why, but I should clear my thoughts about it before I do.

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2017, 03:09:23 AM »
Gonna revive this thread, because I find it interesting.

I was in a polyamorous relationship a while ago. It didn't work out for various reasons, but it was a learning experience for me. I was nervous about it at first, but I found that if it was a relationship with the right people then I would definitely do it again.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2017, 01:05:09 PM »
I apologize for the lack of posts myself.  I took a very long hiatus, and after coming back I wasn't quite ready to address this thread again.   I will though! And continue to answer questions as they come up!

I am in a huge life transition right now with a lot of changes.  That being said, while I am actually currently in a monogamous relationship, my boyfriend and I are both completely supportive of poly.  Any questions,. please ask!  As perse said, if the right people were there, I would definitely also be open to multiple relationships again.

Offline SithLordOfSnark

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2017, 02:58:42 PM »
I've done poly before, but I'm really not sure I could do it again.

Offline CrownedSun

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2017, 03:07:03 PM »
Hey all. XD Nice to see this place active and stuff again.

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2017, 04:04:34 PM »
I've done poly before, but I'm really not sure I could do it again.

I suppose that brings into the philosophy of 'doing poly' or 'being poly'.   To me they are definitely different.  To me, it sounds like  I've done 'gay' before and I'm not sure I could do it again.  You are gay/les/bi or you aren't.  Doing something that you aren't probably isn't going to go well.    Equally, you can BE poly and still be in a monogamous relationship at times in your life, just like you can be bisexual but only with be with the opposite sex at some points in your life. 

I suppose I feel like when people say "Do poly" they think of as an activity rather than an identity, where as in my eyes it's very much the latter.  And when it's embraced that way, I feel like you're much more likely to be successful.  Because if it's not WHO you are or WHAT you need, then in the end, it probably won't work for you. 

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2018, 07:54:28 AM »
How have I not tagged this before now?

Offline MintprincessTopic starter

Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2018, 10:56:16 AM »
How have I not tagged this before now?

It went dead for a long time while I was on hiatus, but I am back and completely open to questions and discussions again!



While my identity will always be poly, at the moment I am so happily involved in a monogamous relationship that I am not looking for anyone else to share my time with.   That being said, poly is still something I want to discuss and explore philosophically!

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Re: Polyamory and Me
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2018, 11:02:04 AM »
oh dollface.  I remember when you were questioning.  I'm always here, you know that.  I'd love to see your discussions <3