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Author Topic: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.  (Read 986 times)

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Offline SkylarblueskysTopic starter

Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« on: August 20, 2016, 10:25:16 AM »
Ahhh another black kid complaining about a type of music they shouldn't even be listening to.... or so we all thought. Fun fact rock music was actually created by a black woman and then made more popular by a black man... a bisexual makeup wearing black man! Oh my god?!?!? Who would have thought all these years of me being too 'white' turns out I'm so far in my roots that I should rocking afros and screaming about how black I am.

It's just weird to me that nobody recognizes that rock music was the 'devil's music' before Elvis got his grubby fingers on some good songs stole them and sold them to the mainstream masses (which they happily accepted because he was white). Lol I'll save my Elvis rant for some other time because boy do I have a lot of complaining to do about Elvis.

 I mean devil's music as in black's music. That's right all these heavy riffs and Heil hitler crabtarts got their sacred music from a black woman...No but seriously am I the only one who has noticed the weird rise of neonazi-isms in rock music these days(lol I mean since hairbands were cool)? As a black female who has always enjoyed a good heavy rock song I can't help but to feel super weird about it. People in rock music seem to say heil Hitler for fun and talk about how they don't like black people or Jews and so on.

I was even harassed at my best friends boyfriends show the other night. Some dude pointed me out because I 'didn't look like I was having fun.' Then proceeded to tell me 'I should go listen to some Lil Wayne because I obviously didn't know good music'. Firstly, who the hell still listens to Lil Wayne?!?. Secondly, I was there to support a great friend of mine do something he loves and I was actually having fun until this poopsicle shows up and starts yelling in my face. It was a good thing I didn't wanna pay fifteen bucks per drank or I would lost my usual calm demeanor.

Anyway that's my rant. Respond if you want. Tell me how all rock shows aren't like this. Or perhaps even tell me how black people didn't start rock or all of Elvis music was original (Jk don't tell me that. I'll literally lose my shit laughing at your gullibleness).

Offline Oniya

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2016, 12:16:59 PM »
If you really want to piss them off, bring up Little Richard, Chuck Berry, James Brown, Jimi Hendrix - seriously.  Jimi effing Hendrix, Star Spangled Banner, Woodstock 1969.




(Not to take away from any of the rest of his work, but that is some serious guitar work right there.)

EDIT:  Fixed video with one that doesn't cut off the ending.)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 12:25:37 PM by Oniya »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2016, 12:33:24 PM »
Hmm, not sure where to begin really. The influences and roots of rock are as ethnically mixed as those of jazz. Most instruments used in mainstream genres of rock music (in a wide sense) originally came from a European background, the rhythmic element (however transmogrified over time) is a mix of African, American (black and white) and European influences of course.

How about the demographics of players? Okay, there are few well-known black hard rock/metal or synthpop bands, on the other hand there are tons of funk and house bands that are ethnically black or mixed; many of those have scored great success, and those styles of music have had a big impact on mostly "white" genres like disco, synth/electronic music and some metal bands. I don't really have a problem with the relative sparseness of coloured hard rock bands or white "big-band funk" acts, that's just a reflection of how music has been interacting with fashion and lifestyles. People like Prince, David Bowie or Isaac Hayes (to me they're all rock artists in a wide sense) were deeply influenced by both white and black strains of music. And there have been racially mixed bands around since Sly and the Family Stone and Jimi Hendrix Experience...

I don't see any rock and pop bands these days trying to push off coloured fans. Of course some of their fanboys might toss around that you're not supposed to like this band if you're not white, or not dressed in a certain way, but that's not really part of the general set of attitudes around rock anymore.

And speaking of Chuck Berry, none other than Johnny B. Goode was actually picked for the Voyager Golden Record in 1977, compiled for the curiosity and enjoyment of  alien civilizations millions of years from now. Carl Sagan, who put together the record, got some criticism for including Berry by folks who thought he was "cheap" and made adolescent music. Sagan replied, "There are a lot of adolescents on the planet".  ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 01:01:18 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Kythia

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 02:26:54 PM »
That's right all these heavy riffs and Heil hitler crabtarts got their sacred music from a black woman...No but seriously am I the only one who has noticed the weird rise of neonazi-isms in rock music these days(lol I mean since hairbands were cool)?

I'm not so sure it's a "these days".  Rock Against Racism was formed in '76.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2016, 02:43:26 PM »
I'm not so sure it's a "these days".  Rock Against Racism was formed in '76.

It's a level of extremism - back in '76, racism was more along the lines of 'Society's Child' than 'white power'.  Lots of things are getting more extreme these days.

But I will say that the attitudes of fan-bases can get pretty hostile.  There's the joke of not wearing a Justin Bieber T-shirt to a Metallica concert, for example.  If the guy on stage actively encourages it, then it's even worse.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2016, 03:56:25 PM »
Coming of age in the 80s my exposure to music came first from my grandparent who had records from their youth.  My tastes ran from the 40s to the early 80s and since we didn't discuss peoples' ethnic origins it took a long time before I knew some acts were black and some were white.  I wish I could have held on to that blindness.

One think I do know is that if you truly listen to the music you can hear the influences of all that has come before and new genres being introduced such as when George Harrison brought Asian Indian music into the fold.  What were called Negro Spiritual at the time gave some of the early rock musicians some of their foundation

Chuck Berry and Jimi Hendrix are aces, Little Richard is okay but I never like James Brown and my opinion of him suffered over the years.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2016, 04:15:36 PM »
One think I do know is that if you truly listen to the music you can hear the influences of all that has come before and new genres being introduced such as when George Harrison brought Asian Indian music into the fold.  What were called Negro Spiritual at the time gave some of the early rock musicians some of their foundation

Or Paul Simon introducing us all to Ladysmith Black Mambazo.

My own musical tastes are so eclectic that the idea of 'you can't like this music because [irrelevant reason here]' just seems unfathomable.  Same with 'You have to like this music because you are [equally irrelevant reason here]'.  You like what you like, and if you want to have a playlist that includes AC/DC and Air Supply, or Mussorgsky and Night Ranger, go for it.  *looks both ways and then carefully closes box of cassette tapes*

You listen to music with your ears, your brain, and your heart.  Some rockers (and fans) get that - some don't.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2016, 04:47:01 PM »
Sometimes aiming to win over a certain swathe of the market first is part of the game. When Bob Marley was getting noticed outside of Jamaica in the early seventies, his record company boss/manager Chris Blackwell (who had spent some of his childhood on the island and was very committed to its music) told him that he wouldn't have much of a chance of reaching black U.S. audiences early on, because the music of Marley and the Wailers was too rootsy, too punchy and unpolished to break on black radio stations and the black soul charts at that time. Blackwell told him, the music that's big in that segment now (around 1973-75) is mostly a bit soft, silky and well arranged - apart from James Brown. The way to go was to build a fanbase among rock kids, in Europe and the UK, and then try to get a firm foothold with the Americans, black or white.

Marley bought that game plan; in one sense he wanted primarily to reach black and coloured listeners but his music was anti-racist, so he had no problems with being embraced by a large white fanbase and inviting them to his kind of music, and the culture and the notions that reggae stood for. - And ultimately he did reach a worldwide black audience too. I think to most of us who have discovered him after he died, the music of Marley and his band transcends any narrow ideas of race
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 05:02:21 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2016, 04:48:53 PM »
Or Paul Simon introducing us all to Ladysmith Black Mambazo.

My own musical tastes are so eclectic that the idea of 'you can't like this music because [irrelevant reason here]' just seems unfathomable.  Same with 'You have to like this music because you are [equally irrelevant reason here]'.  You like what you like, and if you want to have a playlist that includes AC/DC and Air Supply, or Mussorgsky and Night Ranger, go for it.  *looks both ways and then carefully closes box of cassette tapes*

You listen to music with your ears, your brain, and your heart.  Some rockers (and fans) get that - some don't.

That is because music is born in the heart and translated in the brain.  Musicians train their ears to pick up melody, harmony and rhythm and knowing those things opens up the magic.  Creation at its best.

Offline Kythia

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2016, 04:53:05 PM »
It's a level of extremism - back in '76, racism was more along the lines of 'Society's Child' than 'white power'.  Lots of things are getting more extreme these days.

But I will say that the attitudes of fan-bases can get pretty hostile.  There's the joke of not wearing a Justin Bieber T-shirt to a Metallica concert, for example.  If the guy on stage actively encourages it, then it's even worse.

Eh. Rock Against Racism was founded after Clapton talked about how we need to keep the wogs and niggers out if the country and then started chanting "keep Britain white".  I'm...not sure you're right there.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2016, 04:56:32 PM »
Eh. Rock Against Racism was founded after Clapton talked about how we need to keep the wogs and niggers out if the country and then started chanting "keep Britain white".  I'm...not sure you're right there.

Wasn't he a severe coke addict by that time? Anyway, Clapton is an idiosyncratic kind of fella.   :-(

Offline Oniya

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2016, 05:04:22 PM »
Wasn't he a severe coke addict by that time? Anyway, Clapton is an idiosyncratic kind of fella.   :-(

He was at least severely intoxicated, according to the reports I just looked up.  But he hasn't exactly done a whole lot to backtrack from those remarks since then.  He even 'doubled down' in the early 2000's by calling the politician that he was allying himself with at the time of the remarks 'brave'.  I made the mistake of assuming '70s America instead of '70s UK.

Online Cassandra LeMay

Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2016, 05:14:20 PM »
Maybe it's too late in the evening or too early in the morning for my mind to work right, but... what exactly is "rock"? Isn't it a bit futile to argue who invented what when everyone might have their own, individual idea what we are actually talking about here?

I can't remember who said it, but someone once said something like "science fiction is what is sold as science fiction in the bookstores" (or something like that). Isn't the same also true for rock 'n' roll? Could the genre even exist as what we might understand it to be, if it had not be made popular? Without people like Elvis and other white musicians, could there be something like rock in the public conscience?

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2016, 05:19:59 PM »
People have their own preferences but the intelligent ones get to know the music and learn to select their likes on their own.  They don't have problems with what others like as long people don't try to push a preference on them.

The other just like what people tell them they should like and have no understanding of any real nuances.  They quote others because they can't, don't or won't think for themselves.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2016, 05:30:56 PM »
Maybe it's too late in the evening or too early in the morning for my mind to work right, but... what exactly is "rock"? Isn't it a bit futile to argue who invented what when everyone might have their own, individual idea what we are actually talking about here?

I can't remember who said it, but someone once said something like "science fiction is what is sold as science fiction in the bookstores" (or something like that). Isn't the same also true for rock 'n' roll? Could the genre even exist as what we might understand it to be, if it had not be made popular? Without people like Elvis and other white musicians, could there be something like rock in the public conscience?

Agree, it's not exactly easy to define where "rock" begins and ends. If one goes with just terms of musical style (types of rhythm and melodies, instruments, composition techniques,  different kinds of lyrics etc) its almost impossible if you want to cover in all that's been called rock at the time it was released.

I tend to talk of rock more as an umbrella for a wide range of subgenres - not all rock bands play bluesy and catchy guitar-based tunes, you know? :)

Offline SkylarblueskysTopic starter

Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2016, 12:14:39 AM »
Ahh this all started as an annoyed rant after waking up from a terrible night trying to support a friend. But It's still alive and well. I actually found out recently that Nikki Sixx (however you spell it) is/was very anti-black and some douche back in january of this year ended a rock show with a white power scream and heil. It's just crazy to me how people can claim this didn't stem from black music. Sure it's evolved and become far deeper than just good ol' rock n roll but we know where it came from.

I'm relatively young as a mid-90's baby I was born in the era that would grow up to listen to Bowling for Soup (blushes and hides old playlist). But thanks to my parents for being old I know about the older styles of rock (Prince etc.) But in all honesty I didn't find older rock bands (rock as most know it) because of that racial tension for them. I listened to Motley Crue once (famously racist) and my dad (a man born in 1956) lost his shit. Told me he didn't wanna hear their music because they didn't respects us. Poor middle school me was drawing a blank because what did, "they don't respect people like us," mean to an 11 year old in the 2000's?!? I just wanted to enjoy music other than the Isley Brothers and Marvin...

Now I'm bombarded with eye opening truths about what my dad meant. Why everyone thought my brother was weird for learning the guitar, and how come my mom never let me go to Warped Tour with my friends. Rock music was a hostile environment for them growing up and sadly still is for someone like me. You can say they've made groups or whatever to try and change it but it hasn't done much.

I guess I should've specified that I meant in the US (*cough* typical US citizen thinking everyone is from the US *cough*). But I'll continue my late night ramblings. Doesn't every type of music/anything  seemingly need a white audience to even become popular to the masses?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 12:19:20 AM by Skylarblueskys »

Offline Warlock

Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2016, 07:05:51 AM »
 [quote author=Skylarblueskys link=topic=254751.msg12590677#msg12590677 date=1471756479
I guess I should've specified that I meant in the US (*cough* typical US citizen thinking everyone is from the US *cough*). But I'll continue my late night ramblings. Doesn't every type of music/anything  seemingly need a white audience to even become popular to the masses?
[/quote]

Likely because white people are the masses. Think they're around 70% of the demographic make-up of the US. So to the extent they can be described as a unified bloc they'll continue to be a significant influence on the music market by sheer size. Any market really.

One can always try to influence by spending more per capita, buying tickets, albums, paraphenlia, etc. since that is what matters in the end, but numbers are quite lopsided making it difficult.

Offline SkylarblueskysTopic starter

Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2016, 03:52:14 PM »
Likely because white people are the masses. Think they're around 70% of the demographic make-up of the US. So to the extent they can be described as a unified bloc they'll continue to be a significant influence on the music market by sheer size. Any market really.

One can always try to influence by spending more per capita, buying tickets, albums, paraphernalia, etc. since that is what matters in the end, but numbers are quite lopsided making it difficult.

Very true it's just annoying that it's seems to only be acceptable when a white person brings it to the white masses.  -_- I could go on with the complaints about that but this was mostly about some 'metal head' telling me I didn't belong because black people didn't listen to rock music. When in fact his music wouldn't exist without said black people.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 04:05:40 PM by Skylarblueskys »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2016, 04:21:16 PM »
Not to mention the fact that metal (since you mention that specifically) has been getting more and more representation outside of the European regions - I'm not sure if this will link properly, since it's the Wall Street Journal, but I found this article through the Facebook page of a band called 'Skinflint', which hails from Botswana.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-weird-global-appeal-of-heavy-metal-1455819419?mod=e2fb

Offline SkylarblueskysTopic starter

Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2016, 05:42:16 PM »
It wants me to subscribe but yeah I know. It's popular worldwide and soon bands dirty laundry will start affect their livelihood. In my opinion I could never support certain (extremely) popular bands who have been known for their anti-blackness. I've also noticed that they do often single out black or people of african descent but open other POCs with open arms. I guess it's more of a blending technique to not be singled out. The closer to a stereotypical 'white' person you look the better when it comes to going to rock shows and such.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2016, 06:55:57 PM »
Not to mention the fact that metal (since you mention that specifically) has been getting more and more representation outside of the European regions - I'm not sure if this will link properly, since it's the Wall Street Journal, but I found this article through the Facebook page of a band called 'Skinflint', which hails from Botswana.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-weird-global-appeal-of-heavy-metal-1455819419?mod=e2fb

Yep, there's no denying the global outreach of metal and all kinds of subgenres close to it. These guys, Yat-Kha, are Siberian, from the Tuva region close to the Russian/Mongolian border, and they've been welding together their own native styles of throat singing and steppe beats with speed metal and blues since sometime in the 1990s. The first of these tracks is an old local folk song originally, Eki Attar meaning "Good horses", and singer Albert Kuvezin's throat vocals are a great fit for the metal growling chair.  :P There used to be a video clip on Youtube for it (made by the band) where they were setting up a campfire on the shore of one of the big Siberian rivers, headbanging wildly opposite one another around the fire with their long manes of hair...and then finally one of them diving into the river.  ;)




Offline Lilias

Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2016, 06:20:23 AM »
Not to mention the fact that metal (since you mention that specifically) has been getting more and more representation outside of the European regions - I'm not sure if this will link properly, since it's the Wall Street Journal, but I found this article through the Facebook page of a band called 'Skinflint', which hails from Botswana.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-weird-global-appeal-of-heavy-metal-1455819419?mod=e2fb

We can remember the times when Sepultura and their followers had made Brazil the world capital of thrash. ;)

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2016, 06:37:42 AM »
Gotta love a title like Bizarre Troll Technology;D These guys are Finnish (and it's several years since I first picked up on the track) but the guy who posted them on Youtube is writing in Spanish, so it's another sign of how much this kind of music penetrates any borders.

The song could be the sound of an imagined Doomsday.


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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2016, 05:01:17 AM »
It's isn't just rock and roll and the genres that proceded from it that was started by black musicians, you know.  EDM was begun in Detroit by African-American musicians as well.  It's swelled into many, many genres since, but check this site out to get a lot more detail than you'd ever thought possible on all the varieties of EDM.

Metal has been all around the world for a long time.  African-Americans have been placing their imprint on it since Jimi Hendrix.

Living Colour in the late 80s/early 90s:



24-7 Spyz from around the same time:



Ice-T's band Body Count crushed it:



South American metal bands like Sepultera, Angra and Brujeria were big in the 90s as well.  Loudness was a Japanese metal band that did well in the 80s.  In the present, don't forget...Babymetal:



Metal does have a large presence in Nordic countries, but that's common knowledge.  But it's also huge in South America and Asia.  Just check all the tour dates for Iron Maiden in those parts of the world from their last tour.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Rock Music the secret everyone seems to overlook.
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2016, 08:39:17 PM »
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Yep, there's no denying the global outreach of metal and all kinds of subgenres close to it. These guys, Yat-Kha, are Siberian, from the Tuva region close to the Russian/Mongolian border, and they've been welding together their own native styles of throat singing and steppe beats with speed metal and blues since sometime in the 1990s. The first of these tracks is an old local folk song originally, Eki Attar meaning "Good horses", and singer Albert Kuvezin's throat vocals are a great fit for the metal growling chair.  :P There used to be a video clip on Youtube for it (made by the band) where they were setting up a campfire on the shore of one of the big Siberian rivers, headbanging wildly opposite one another around the fire with their long manes of hair...and then finally one of them diving into the river.  ;)






There's a lot of really awesome metal bands coming out of Mongolia, Central Asia, and Siberia lately. Also, there's a lot of excellent bands coming out of Botswana.