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Author Topic: This article actually pissed me off.  (Read 1163 times)

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Offline Oniya

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Re: This article actually pissed me off.
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2016, 02:32:25 PM »
And hey, I think everybody likes to hear from time to time "Don't worry about it, I got this," since everybody likes to feel like they don't have to worry and that that important thing that was stressing you out or that minor chore that's just the cherry on a massive stresscake is being taken care of by somebody else so you can just forget about it. At least, that's my view on that matter. I can't speak for everybody, of course! :P

And this is why a well-thought-out D/s relationship can be quite healthy.  There are people who can deal with the minor-chore stress, and people that can deal with the major-task stress, and betwixt them both they lick the platter clean.

Online Vergil TannerTopic starter

Re: This article actually pissed me off.
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2016, 02:59:32 PM »
And then get onto the more fun kind of licking! :P

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: This article actually pissed me off.
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2016, 07:46:43 PM »
After reading the article the OP referenced is was left confused and went looking for something that made more sense and was grounded in reality.  This is what I found.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201206/loving-introduction-bdsm

It harkens back to the sessions I assisted my therapist in when she needed some live role playing assistance with her groups.

Online Vergil TannerTopic starter

Re: This article actually pissed me off.
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2016, 04:57:10 AM »
I've got nothing else to say but "DAMN SKIPPY." I like that article far more than the original one. As you say, it's actually grounded in reality and seems to UNDERSTAND the kink rather than having an agenda to vilify something, haha. So...yeah, well found! :-)

Offline consortium11

Re: This article actually pissed me off.
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2016, 08:12:38 PM »
I think there's something that the discussion here so far has missed and I think it's pretty important to understand where the author is coming from.

Take quotes like this:

Quote
I came of age during the hyper-conservative Bush years and something in me will always resonate with the gonzo porn my boyfriends were watching at the time.

Quote
But Dommes (the female version) are rebelling against social roles that keep women subservient, while Doms (the male version) are looking at a society that is already anti-women and wants to keep them subservient.

Quote
Dommes, and the subs that serve them, are counter-culture. Doms would feel right at home with Don Draper.

Quote
You are not misunderstood you are just conservative.

Quote
I can fully respect your autonomy while judging your play partner. Society does this all the time, which is how men can go to strip clubs, but being a dancer is still frowned upon

Quote
They are literally the opposite of counter-culture

Quote
The tendency of straight, privileged, conservative white dudes to take over everything is making it much harder for me to find people interested in whatever random fetish I am into this week

Quote
Their pervasiveness is invading every attempt I have made to find a community.

Do you know what I get having read that?

This doesn't strike me as someone who's primarily interested in BDSM or kink because they enjoy BDSM or kink. They strike me as being primarily interested in BDSM and kink because it's edgy. Because it's rebellious. Because it's different. Because it's, as they say multiple times in the article, counter-culture. They strike me as the same sort of person who loved a band before anyone had heard of them and then accused them of "selling out" as soon as they other people started to like them. They strike me as being the sort of person who loved yoga and spiritual retreats a decade ago... but now hates it as cultural appropriation because it's become mainstream and popular. They'd have probably loved skateboarding in the 80's but lament how Tony Hawk ruined it by making money and getting the sport exposure. They loved the dingy, dodgy sex-shops down back alleys. They hated Anne Summers.

Frankly it strikes me as being pretty similar to the political lesbian movement... the women who weren't actually lesbian but decided to go for it as an act of rebellion and part of their struggle against sexism. So here comes Cathy Hope and she's rebelling against the patriarchy and she thinks the BDSM community would be a great way to do that what with dominant women, sissy's, sub-men, weird fetishes and all that. But what do you know? Some people aren't into BDSM as a political or moral statement. Some of us are into it because it's what fires us up and gives us pleasure. And some of us happen to be men. White men. CIS White Men. Who often identify as heterosexual. And shockingly while many of us find lots of different women attractive we also tend to find the most attractive the ones who are most conventionally considered attractive. And that's just not fair is it? Cathy Hope didn't get into BDSM to enjoy BDSM. She got into it to be part of a movement, a culture and to make a statement. And these men are ruining it by actually being into BDSM for its own sake. They're getting in the way of her perfect little world. She doesn't want a world where those evil straight, white, CIS men are accepting and tolerant of other sexualities, kinks and the like, quite happy to have a male pony-slave trot around next to them getting whipped by his mistress while the dom-trans woman takes another man from behind. No, she wants a world where those men aren't there so she can high five everyone that's left and talk about how different and special they are for doing this crazy, unique, weird thing that those boring mainstream people wouldn't understand.

So in short, she can fuck right off.

Truth is, it likely won't be an issue. In two years she'll have found something else rebellious and special and different to be infatuated by and she'll leave BDSM behind. I've seen people like this come into the community before. Normally they don't last. If you keep doing something because it's different then eventually it stops being different and then why are you doing it? 50 Shades has a huge amount wrong with it as a depiction of an actual BDSM relationship (although I've made the point before that it wasn't meant to be... it's a fantasy story that happened to get popular, little different to the erotic stories that get posted all over the web) but it also made BDSM that little bit more mainstream, that little bit more well known, that little bit more acceptable (although the legal position across much of the world is still horrendous). And once BDSM and kink become a bit mainstream? The Cathy Hopes' of the world will be on their merry way.

We just have to hope they don't cause too much damage in their passing.

I've seen it happening and it's bloody awful. Communities end up splitting as arbitrary rules more interested in maintaining BDSM as a counter culture then, you know, actually letting people have (safe, sane consensual) fun during play. A general disapproval of dom men and sub women, even if that's what the woman wants. And god forbid the sub woman in that case happens to be a PoC (normally worse if they're black) and the man is white, even if race play isn't part of their kink. The world basically ends if it is. Daddy doms and little girls getting shamed and thrown out of the "circle". Does anyone even want to think about mentioning consensual non-consent with the man as the aggressor? You'd better be pretty careful with any roleplays you want to do to make sure they're not reinforcing social norms. Doing some rope bondage? Well, it had better not be too close to shibari or that's cultural appropriation. But don't you dare call it shibari... that's a the evil white men using a Japanese word incorrectly when they should be saying kinbaku. And then you throw in all the other stuff that comes with any relatively closed community... cliques, petty arguements, social drama... but all now mixed in with buzzwords like privilege.

Online Vergil TannerTopic starter

Re: This article actually pissed me off.
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2016, 08:36:12 PM »
I think there's something that the discussion here so far has missed and I think it's pretty important to understand where the author is coming from.

Just to be clear, I don't much care where she's coming from. There's too much ignorance and arrogance in her article for me to give her opinion that level of respect. Nothing on her as a person, of course, I haven't met her, blah blah blah...but as I always say; You need to respect peoples right to have an opinion, but that doesn't mean you have to respect the opinion itself. XD


This doesn't strike me as someone who's primarily interested in BDSM or kink because they enjoy BDSM or kink. They strike me as being primarily interested in BDSM and kink because it's edgy. Because it's rebellious. Because it's different. Because it's, as they say multiple times in the article, counter-culture. They strike me as the same sort of person who loved a band before anyone had heard of them and then accused them of "selling out" as soon as they other people started to like them. They strike me as being the sort of person who loved yoga and spiritual retreats a decade ago... but now hates it as cultural appropriation because it's become mainstream and popular. They'd have probably loved skateboarding in the 80's but lament how Tony Hawk ruined it by making money and getting the sport exposure. They loved the dingy, dodgy sex-shops down back alleys. They hated Anne Summers.

Frankly it strikes me as being pretty similar to the political lesbian movement... the women who weren't actually lesbian but decided to go for it as an act of rebellion and part of their struggle against sexism. So here comes Cathy Hope and she's rebelling against the patriarchy and she thinks the BDSM community would be a great way to do that what with dominant women, sissy's, sub-men, weird fetishes and all that. But what do you know? Some people aren't into BDSM as a political or moral statement. Some of us are into it because it's what fires us up and gives us pleasure. And some of us happen to be men. White men. CIS White Men. Who often identify as heterosexual. And shockingly while many of us find lots of different women attractive we also tend to find the most attractive the ones who are most conventionally considered attractive. And that's just not fair is it? Cathy Hope didn't get into BDSM to enjoy BDSM. She got into it to be part of a movement, a culture and to make a statement. And these men are ruining it by actually being into BDSM for its own sake. They're getting in the way of her perfect little world. She doesn't want a world where those evil straight, white, CIS men are accepting and tolerant of other sexualities, kinks and the like, quite happy to have a male pony-slave trot around next to them getting whipped by his mistress while the dom-trans woman takes another man from behind. No, she wants a world where those men aren't there so she can high five everyone that's left and talk about how different and special they are for doing this crazy, unique, weird thing that those boring mainstream people wouldn't understand.

I agree with all of this. I kinda picked up that kinda vibe, I just ignored it because I didn't care and was annoyed over the ignorance displayed in the post. At least when I don't know anything about a topic, I bow out of the discussion (Or at least, I try). Don't even get me started on Hipsters, and how stupidly arrogant the attitude of "Now it's popular, so it sucks" is. Don't get me wrong, I prefer Linkin Park and Avril Lavignes older stuff to their newer stuff, but that's because of a style change, not because it's popular. I'm not gonna insult people who don't like it. It's not for me, but you do you. Why y' gotta be so controlling of what everybody else is "allowed" to like, y'know? I mean, I agree with everything you're saying, I was just noting how annoying it is for me as both a Cis White Male (Well, as far as I know....I have a sneaking suspicion I might be slightly bisexual, but I currently have no way of testing that, so I'm content with calling myself Hetroflexible or Bi-Curious for the moment) AND a Switch to be told that my Kink doesn't exist, or isn't a kink and that I'm not welcome in a community that the author clearly doesn't understand.

That being said, I get the allure of the rebellion and the going against the norm, and if that's why you're in the community...well, more power to you. You do you. Just don't tell me not to do me, and we'll get along famously. Or at least be able to stay out of each others bloody way, y'know? If she wants to stick it to the man by sticking it in some guys butt, then cool, go right ahead. Hell, if I find you halfway attractive and you're a decent Dom, then I might letcha stick it in my butt (though judging by her lack of understanding of the BDSM community, I would have to say that my assumption going in would be that she's a passable Dom, at best, and that a lot of the scorn I would receive would be genuine and not play...I'm sure she'd respect my Safeword, but I wouldn't want to put it to the test >.> ). Just don't tell me what I can and can't enjoy, mmmk?

It's also ironic that in "fighting sexism," she became a blatant raging sexist asshole herself. Yes, Cathy, sexism against men exists. It isn't "Reverse Sexism" or "Deserved Sexism" or anything like that, it's just fucking Sexism.


So in short, she can fuck right off.




Truth is, it likely won't be an issue. In two years she'll have found something else rebellious and special and different to be infatuated by and she'll leave BDSM behind. I've seen people like this come into the community before. Normally they don't last. If you keep doing something because it's different then eventually it stops being different and then why are you doing it? 50 Shades has a huge amount wrong with it as a depiction of an actual BDSM relationship (although I've made the point before that it wasn't meant to be... it's a fantasy story that happened to get popular, little different to the erotic stories that get posted all over the web) but it also made BDSM that little bit more mainstream, that little bit more well known, that little bit more acceptable (although the legal position across much of the world is still horrendous). And once BDSM and kink become a bit mainstream? The Cathy Hopes' of the world will be on their merry way.

Oh, it's obvious that this obscure little blog post will never be a big issue, and she'll soon leave a community that is much better off without her, but...well, I can still be annoyed over her idiotic opinions on a subject she blatantly knows nothing about. XD Though I disagree that 50SoG wasn't meant to be a BDSM book - it so totally was, it just failed miserably - and I think that its net impact on the community was a mixed bag...it made it more mainstream, but also grossly misrepresented an already misunderstood community, but that's a debate for another day. I just wanted to bitch about it to sympathetic ears, and I reckoned Elliquiy would be the place to do that :P


I've seen it happening and it's bloody awful. Communities end up splitting as arbitrary rules more interested in maintaining BDSM as a counter culture then, you know, actually letting people have (safe, sane consensual) fun during play. A general disapproval of dom men and sub women, even if that's what the woman wants. And god forbid the sub woman in that case happens to be a PoC (normally worse if they're black) and the man is white, even if race play isn't part of their kink. The world basically ends if it is. Daddy doms and little girls getting shamed and thrown out of the "circle". Does anyone even want to think about mentioning consensual non-consent with the man as the aggressor? You'd better be pretty careful with any roleplays you want to do to make sure they're not reinforcing social norms. Doing some rope bondage? Well, it had better not be too close to shibari or that's cultural appropriation. But don't you dare call it shibari... that's a the evil white men using a Japanese word incorrectly when they should be saying kinbaku. And then you throw in all the other stuff that comes with any relatively closed community... cliques, petty arguements, social drama... but all now mixed in with buzzwords like privilege.

Oh, I agree. It's a complete and utter shitshow sometimes. I just hope that it doesn't happen here on E, since this is one of the few places I can actually go and get these itches scratched without being judged. >.> Basically, Social Justice infects everything it touches. There are real, genuine issues out there but when it starts to creep into communities that have nothing to do with that aspect of life, it tries to MAKE it about those issues and that's when the schisms and the bullshit starts. We need look no further than the absolute horror show that was Atheism+ to see THAT much. >.>
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 08:37:20 PM by Vergil Tanner »