You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 03, 2016, 08:02:43 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)  (Read 2960 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2016, 11:05:04 PM »
There is a much bigger picture here. My sister grew up in Compton, has 3 degrees, 2 of which are master's degrees. She would definitely have a different view and can attest to systematic racism as well. I was born in Oakland, grew up in Sacramento - I can also say there is a difference.

The is a large piece missing from this argument and it feels to me that...I could list and go on forever what is and how it affects people of color and still someone will say "It's not real"

But no one here is saying that racism and discrimination is not real. At most what we are arguing is the severity and level of it.

There are people that argue the Holocaust never happened. So what? They got their opinion, and they can keep it so long as they don't harass or hurt anyone.

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2016, 11:12:13 PM »
But no one here is saying that racism and discrimination is not real. At most what we are arguing is the severity and level of it.

There are people that argue the Holocaust never happened. So what? They got their opinion, and they can keep it so long as they don't harass or hurt anyone.

Uh...what?

Saying it never happened is hurtful to those who endured it...

I don't...

Nevermind. I'm not going to say anything else.

Online Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2016, 11:13:15 PM »
Its still unnecessary nonetheless.

The poor are targeted and if you're a PoC, you're more likely to get shot.

No matter the statistics, I can say that I'm afraid of cops whenever I see them. I'm afraid for them to walk up to me, talk to me, or drive by me. I'm afraid to serve them at work and I get incredibly uncomfortable when people say "well, he shouldn't have done that or he wouldn't have gotten shot."

Cops should never shoot to kill unless there are no other means. Our cops are not only power hungry, they're trigger happy. The only way for this to end is if cops are convicted as criminals when they shoot a 12 year old boy with a toy gun.

I don't know what else to say...like - I'm trying to..help, educate if I can...that racism is alive and well...and..

Its like..I don't know

Lol this is depressing as shit. No one seems to care.
YEs people or color are targeted more than others. We Know this.
Its unfair, its fucked up we know. The world is abusive and its gotten worse, the social progress that has been worked for, for 100+ years just fell down and went back a decade.

Not every cop is a rampaging racist, and because of the actions of some shit heeled trigger happy skinheads the rest of the police community is being shit on and automatically labeled as racist jackbooted thugs.

Cops should never shoot to kill unless absolutely necessary is an easy argument to make. Like how soldiers should never shoot unless they are sure that there are no civilians in danger.

Sad truth is that it is not that simple. It is easy to make that call afterwards. But when a person all of a sudden reaches behind their back without you telling them to, you literally have 4 seconds to decide whether or not to reach for a weapon. And there are any number of things that can happen in that time span.


I don't want cops to shoot people, I don't want anyone to be treated differently for skin tone. I don't want a lot of things but this is the world we live in. It is one big hell hole and gets worse literally every, single, day.

I hated getting heckled in my old neighborhood by guys asking me to flash my tits at them and guys grabbing their junk at me. But...whatever.

We are saying things that are parallel and lead the same way just in different roads, some longer, some shorter.

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2016, 11:15:49 PM »
When you're the only black person and everyone thinks that you're not correct in  how you feel.

Thats what it feels like. I'm done with trying to share my experiences and concerns.

Online Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2016, 11:18:13 PM »
Uh...what?

Saying it never happened is hurtful to those who endured it...

I don't...

Nevermind. I'm not going to say anything else.

Okay let me share something. My Grandfather lied about his age and entered the Army and joined the Korean War at around 16. He lied to his family he was going to get a job because they were all poor and they believed it. He pulled it off and once the war was done he came back with a case of PTSD and woke up screaming and thrashing around in his bed for the rest of his life.

And yet there are people out there that say the Casualty reports for the Korean War were false and that it was a fake war. (yes those people exist) And yes it makes light of the suffering he and many many other people went through. BUt you know what, he fought, bled and suffered all his life for the freedom of those people to think that way. If they wanna think like that, then as scummy as they are, they can think that way.

As long as they don't go hurting no one for it, its their opinion to hold, as stupid as their opinion is. Because if we start policing thoughts instead of educating people and showing them the truth, then we ourselves become nothing but thugs all marching in lockstep.

When you're the only black person and everyone thinks that you're not correct in  how you feel.

Thats what it feels like. I'm done with trying to share my experiences and concerns.
Alright.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Give me everything and I'll take on anything.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2016, 11:30:44 PM »
Well, I might be biased, but...

Why don't ya just move up to Canada, then? C'mon, free pancakes for everyone!

Offline Vekseid

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2016, 11:43:49 PM »
noir, racism is still clearly a problem. Almost entirely against people of color, with few exceptions - a few of which got tied to BLM early on. Most everyone here will agree with you in this. No one is saying otherwise.

My personal opinion is that police should receive no protections when not fully recorded. Make a separate investigatory institution to charge them when they fuck up, that also tracks crime statistics (right now a major part of the problem is ensuring crime happens so they get funding...).

Whatever you may think, however, blacks are not immune to it. Zimbabwe and Rwanda are examples of what can happen. And when we study them, there's no differing mental state that lets us treat Mugabe's followers any differently than Pol Pot's.

It's all in the rhetoric. What words get spoken, and how they are used. No human subgroup is immune to toxic thinking, and everyone owes it to themselves and their society to keep a clear head regarding such things.

When you're the only black person and everyone thinks that you're not correct in  how you feel.

Thats what it feels like. I'm done with trying to share my experiences and concerns.

I am really sorry you feel this way. : /

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2016, 11:47:12 PM »
Southern Africa went through an apartheid...I can't say I agree with things that are going on there, but that's a complicated subject.

But, I'll have to refrain from talking about this. I don't know how to word things online, in person is easier. I've never felt so alone about this loel

Offline HannibalBarca

  • Defiant General of Hopeless Causes * Henry Rollins for President campaigner * Mako-phile * Uncle Iroh in shades * Disciple of Dr. Cornel West *
  • Lord
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: At large, am tall. "People keep asking if I'm back. Yeah...I'm thinking I'm back."
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2016, 12:28:52 AM »
It's...I'll try to make some comparisons, and see if I can synch up with what I think la dame en noir is trying to get across.  A comparison of empathy and sympathy.

I'm white, cis, straight, and male.  Kind of puts me at a disadvantage when trying to stand in the shoes of a lot of disadvantaged populations in the U.S.  Fortunately for me, I have family and friends who don't fit that profile.

In college, I had three friends; two were black, one was white.  We all carpooled to school together, but not all four of us went on any given day of the week.  I was the only one who had classes five days a week, and we used my car to drive.  The other three paid for the gas.  When my black friends were carpooling, we were pulled over by cops multiple times.  When it was my white friend only with me...not even once.  I may not be black, but owing to what I experienced second-hand while my friends were with me, I can empathize with my black friends about being singled out by cops.  I could see what was being done, and understood it from a logical perspective, and felt an emotional connection as well.

My grandmother--father's mother--was half Blackfoot, and grew up on a reservation.  I'm old enough to have had kids in my neighborhood play cowboys and indians together...but I never wanted to, because of how inherently biased their play was against the native American side.  It always made me think of my grandmother, father, and all my other ancestors of native American ethnicity.  I'm only 1/8 native American and don't in any way appear to be native American, but...I empathized with my family members who dealt with those kinds of things personally.

My son is transgender.  I get quite protective of him if I catch even a whiff of discriminatory behavior by anyone around him.  I'm straight, but I don't need to be a member of the LGBTQ community to empathize with my son when he is treated like shit by someone because of his gender.

I'm an atheist.  I've had some fairly vicious and vitriolic things said to me, but I've learned to deal with it.  However, when I see another atheist treated like shit, I don't merely empathize with them...I sympathize.  I don't just react like a human being who feels a pang of pain seeing another person in pain or abused.  I've been in their shoes. I know intimately what it feels like to be treated the way they get treated.

la dame en noir, I can't sympathize with you because I can't be in your shoes.  I can't be black.  I can't experience the precise emotions and experiences you do because I can't ever be some of the specific things that make you who you are.  But I can empathize, because I've been treated like shit by people because I've been different than them.  It isn't the same.  But it is a taste of it.  It's enough to know discrimination when I see it, and enough to make me stand up against it whether it's blacks, native Americans, LGBTQ individuals, or people of different religious beliefs.

Quote
But no one here is saying that racism and discrimination is not real. At most what we are arguing is the severity and level of it.

There are people that argue the Holocaust never happened. So what? They got their opinion, and they can keep it so long as they don't harass or hurt anyone.

Lustful Bride, the only way I can try to point out how this isn't the case is that...speech can never be 100% free.  There are some things that can't be said, in order to have a functioning society where people can have a reasonable expectation of happiness among other people who don't hold the same viewpoints.  We have laws against libel and slander, which shows speech can't be 100% free.  Similarly, beliefs can't be 100% free, either.  People have the right to their own beliefs, but not the right to their own facts.  If someone's beliefs are wrong--meaning they can be proved factually wrong, and they try to push those beliefs, then I think we have the right to suppress them, just like libel and slander are suppressed. 

Some beliefs get certain people riled up, and that gets other people killed.  Holocaust deniers are a step in the direction of the Holocaust.  I'd rather not let anyone pull our civilization towards that ever again by building up a narrative that somehow anything that horrific was impossible to have happened.  Likewise, when racists try to stand up for the racist atmosphere of police culture...it just isn't acceptable.  Sure, there are good cops in the mix.  They should be standing up and calling out the racism inherent in the system then...and some few do.  But it still isn't fixing the culture as a whole.  And people are continuing to die.  I'd probably not be as self-controlled as BLM members have been if I was in the same situation.

I know you're against racism, Lustful Bride, it's just...I have too many friends who are black, and I've listened to them for years about things like this, and they're right.  I don't try to argue with them about things I have no experience with.  The things I do understand about...those things bring me very much in line with their sentiment.

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2016, 12:34:00 AM »
It's...I'll try to make some comparisons, and see if I can synch up with what I think la dame en noir is trying to get across.  A comparison of empathy and sympathy.

I'm white, cis, straight, and male.  Kind of puts me at a disadvantage when trying to stand in the shoes of a lot of disadvantaged populations in the U.S.  Fortunately for me, I have family and friends who don't fit that profile.

In college, I had three friends; two were black, one was white.  We all carpooled to school together, but not all four of us went on any given day of the week.  I was the only one who had classes five days a week, and we used my car to drive.  The other three paid for the gas.  When my black friends were carpooling, we were pulled over by cops multiple times.  When it was my white friend only with me...not even once.  I may not be black, but owing to what I experienced second-hand while my friends were with me, I can empathize with my black friends about being singled out by cops.  I could see what was being done, and understood it from a logical perspective, and felt an emotional connection as well.

My grandmother--father's mother--was half Blackfoot, and grew up on a reservation.  I'm old enough to have had kids in my neighborhood play cowboys and indians together...but I never wanted to, because of how inherently biased their play was against the native American side.  It always made me think of my grandmother, father, and all my other ancestors of native American ethnicity.  I'm only 1/8 native American and don't in any way appear to be native American, but...I empathized with my family members who dealt with those kinds of things personally.

My son is transgender.  I get quite protective of him if I catch even a whiff of discriminatory behavior by anyone around him.  I'm straight, but I don't need to be a member of the LGBTQ community to empathize with my son when he is treated like shit by someone because of his gender.

I'm an atheist.  I've had some fairly vicious and vitriolic things said to me, but I've learned to deal with it.  However, when I see another atheist treated like shit, I don't merely empathize with them...I sympathize.  I don't just react like a human being who feels a pang of pain seeing another person in pain or abused.  I've been in their shoes. I know intimately what it feels like to be treated the way they get treated.

la dame en noir, I can't sympathize with you because I can't be in your shoes.  I can't be black.  I can't experience the precise emotions and experiences you do because I can't ever be some of the specific things that make you who you are.  But I can empathize, because I've been treated like shit by people because I've been different than them.  It isn't the same.  But it is a taste of it.  It's enough to know discrimination when I see it, and enough to make me stand up against it whether it's blacks, native Americans, LGBTQ individuals, or people of different religious beliefs.

Lustful Bride, the only way I can try to point out how this isn't the case is that...speech can never be 100% free.  There are some things that can't be said, in order to have a functioning society where people can have a reasonable expectation of happiness among other people who don't hold the same viewpoints.  We have laws against libel and slander, which shows speech can't be 100% free.  Similarly, beliefs can't be 100% free, either.  People have the right to their own beliefs, but not the right to their own facts.  If someone's beliefs are wrong--meaning they can be proved factually wrong, and they try to push those beliefs, then I think we have the right to suppress them, just like libel and slander are suppressed. 

Some beliefs get certain people riled up, and that gets other people killed.  Holocaust deniers are a step in the direction of the Holocaust.  I'd rather not let anyone pull our civilization towards that ever again by building up a narrative that somehow anything that horrific was impossible to have happened.  Likewise, when racists try to stand up for the racist atmosphere of police culture...it just isn't acceptable.  Sure, there are good cops in the mix.  They should be standing up and calling out the racism inherent in the system then...and some few do.  But it still isn't fixing the culture as a whole.  And people are continuing to die.  I'd probably not be as self-controlled as BLM members have been if I was in the same situation.

I know you're against racism, Lustful Bride, it's just...I have too many friends who are black, and I've listened to them for years about things like this, and they're right.  I don't try to argue with them about things I have no experience with.  The things I do understand about...those things bring me very much in line with their sentiment.

Your post actually made me cry. I honestly thought no one cared or even understood, expect for the OP. Everything I wanted to say has been put into words and I couldn't thank you enough. THank you, thank you so much.

Experience is everything.

I do not associate myself with racist, prejudice, homophobic, and bigoted people. I went on a Facebook friendslist(mostly black, surprisingly) cleaning because I saw too many people that were showing their true colors, while saying "I'm not racist". If you're not racist, you don't need to say that. If you have black friends(anyone that's a PoC), be there for them. Don't watch them get shit on, treated unfairly, and shut them up when they talk about an experience. Everyone needs to help.

And you're one of those people that actually gives a fuck.

Thank you for this.

Offline ReijiTabibito

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2016, 01:03:58 AM »
Here's my take on this particular issue.  We need to ask three questions: What are the problems?  Why do these problems exist?  And what can we do to solve them?

The thing we have to keep in mind is that the solution is not simply to decry racism, say that it is a problem, and demand that people stop being racist.  For one, you're going to have to deal with the Elvis factor - you are always going to have racists, just like you have people who think that Elvis really isn't dead.  One of the big incidents that caused the protests at Missouri U was that Payton Head - student body president - had a racial epithet thrown his way by a bunch of white guys in a pickup truck.  Yes, that is a horrible thing and it should not have been said.  But this is a country where you are allowed to say what you like, even if it is repulsive.  The solution is not to ban hate speech but to teach how not to be a horrible person.  Elimination of racism is not a reasonable goal to set, because it would require policing of language and thought; elimination of institutional racism is.


Find racist policies, racist attitudes.  Simply saying that the problem is 'racism' feels good, but does nothing because racism is a ghost - there's nothing to fight against.  On the other hand, finding a police procedure that unfairly targets minorities simply because they are minorities (such as NY's Stop & Frisk) is something that can be organized against and attacked.  We look at the battle during the 50s and 60s, the civil rights movement, and against Jim Crow as great triumphs for the black community.  Why?  Because the struggle had real, tangible results - against the racist policy of segregation. 

Jim Crow was a massive government effort (on the state level, but still government) to force black people into a subservient position to whites.  (It's similar to SA's apartheid in that sense.)  The racists who passed Jim Crow had to accomplish it in government because we live in a capitalist society, and capitalism doesn't care if you're black or white, only if your money is good; the people who codified Jim Crow and segregation into law panicked because nobody could stop a black man from patronizing a white business and the white man discovering he actually quite liked this extra money he was getting from the black community - and they couldn't have that, then white people and black people might start to get along!


Protests and marches and speeches are great, but if that's all we ever do, we don't look at the problems we have and why they exist, then we'll never get anywhere.

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2016, 01:09:31 AM »
Here's my take on this particular issue.  We need to ask three questions: What are the problems?  Why do these problems exist?  And what can we do to solve them?

The thing we have to keep in mind is that the solution is not simply to decry racism, say that it is a problem, and demand that people stop being racist.  For one, you're going to have to deal with the Elvis factor - you are always going to have racists, just like you have people who think that Elvis really isn't dead.  One of the big incidents that caused the protests at Missouri U was that Payton Head - student body president - had a racial epithet thrown his way by a bunch of white guys in a pickup truck.  Yes, that is a horrible thing and it should not have been said.  But this is a country where you are allowed to say what you like, even if it is repulsive.  The solution is not to ban hate speech but to teach how not to be a horrible person.  Elimination of racism is not a reasonable goal to set, because it would require policing of language and thought; elimination of institutional racism is.


Find racist policies, racist attitudes.  Simply saying that the problem is 'racism' feels good, but does nothing because racism is a ghost - there's nothing to fight against.  On the other hand, finding a police procedure that unfairly targets minorities simply because they are minorities (such as NY's Stop & Frisk) is something that can be organized against and attacked.  We look at the battle during the 50s and 60s, the civil rights movement, and against Jim Crow as great triumphs for the black community.  Why?  Because the struggle had real, tangible results - against the racist policy of segregation. 

Jim Crow was a massive government effort (on the state level, but still government) to force black people into a subservient position to whites.  (It's similar to SA's apartheid in that sense.)  The racists who passed Jim Crow had to accomplish it in government because we live in a capitalist society, and capitalism doesn't care if you're black or white, only if your money is good; the people who codified Jim Crow and segregation into law panicked because nobody could stop a black man from patronizing a white business and the white man discovering he actually quite liked this extra money he was getting from the black community - and they couldn't have that, then white people and black people might start to get along!


Protests and marches and speeches are great, but if that's all we ever do, we don't look at the problems we have and why they exist, then we'll never get anywhere.

*tips*

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2016, 01:37:42 AM »
This woman is far from ignorant.

Racism in America is built on a system. Black people can be very bigoted and prejudiced, but we cannot be racist.

A very convenient excuse for racists to get away with being racist, that.

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2016, 01:42:11 AM »
A very convenient excuse for racists to get away with being racist, that.

HMMM

No one gets away with being racist. But racist certainly get away with people saying "I'm not racist, but."

 ::)

Stop...please

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2016, 01:50:05 AM »
The single largest problem I have with BlackLivesMatter isn't really what they stand for, it's what they are: a group built on ideology and bent on listening to itself in an echo chamber. Yes there are still plenty of race-related issues, though I still believe most of those can be traced to the economic circumstances a lot of African-Americans live in, which was once rooted in racism and now no-one seems to do anything about out of convenience to their own laced pockets. But do you honestly need a group to change these? What exactly is BlackLivesMatter accomplishing? Almost any group or large scale movement that deals with something so emotionally and personally charged that I can think of - even here in Belgium where things like racism is far less prominent - always gets taken over by extremists, who rile up significant portions of the rest of the movement to become as bigoted, single-minded and unproductive as they are. Before long, the entire movement is poisoned with these types and it loses all credibility and point. People shouldn't be prescribing to ideologies because they will eventually lead to categorizing people, defensive attitudes and a "me versus them" mentality. The end result of that, as we've already seen, are over-emotional protests, people barging into gatherings they have no business being, interrupting their opponents, threatening them, using other dirty tactics, promoting censure, etc. And again, this isn't only BLMs ball park, they all do it, I've seen similar videos of white supremacists not letting someone else finish even a single sentence because they didn't like what they were hearing. AllLivesMatter - when used as originally intended - isn't about turning a blind eye to issues of black Americans, it's about reinforcing that everyone has problems and that they should all be tackled. There shouldn't be a focus on this group of people, or that group of people. The playing field should be leveled on all possible accounts and it should be a process that everyone should engage in, for everyone. If you are concerned only with the problems of one group and only concerned with fixing those, then you're just promoting people being put in arbitrary boxes based on race, nationality, gender, whatever. -That- is the problem I have with BLM, not what it stands for, as they can back a lot of their claims up with figures and evidence that should be viewed and discussed openly. Problem is, there is no discussion. Because of its prominent members, you either agree with them, or you are a racist. There is no middle ground, and there is no context.

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2016, 01:50:43 AM »
HMMM

No one gets away with being racist. But racist certainly get away with people saying "I'm not racist, but."

 ::)

Stop...please

Yes, anyone can say: I'm not racist, but.
Whether what follows is nonsense or not. What is your point?

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2016, 01:53:12 AM »
*whistles*

Offline Renegade Vile


Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2016, 02:01:45 AM »
Please.


Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2016, 02:06:01 AM »
Please.



Petty is, as petty does.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/07/activism-playing-the-victim/

I am a victim of racism - so I can't exactly ...pretend that it has happened to me...when it has :3

Online Blythe

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2016, 02:06:21 AM »
Folks, tempers are going to run high in topics like this. Let's please keep things civil in here.

There are worthy discussions in this thread to be had about racism, about institutionalized racism, about the importance of freedom of speech and how that relates the the two aforementioned topics, the meaning and intent of the Black Lives Matter movement, the effect these things have on people of color, etc.

Let's try to keep things towards a good debate here.

Offline Cassandra LeMayTopic starter

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2016, 02:06:38 AM »
.... There shouldn't be a focus on this group of people, or that group of people. The playing field should be leveled on all possible accounts and it should be a process that everyone should engage in, for everyone. If you are concerned only with the problems of one group and only concerned with fixing those, then you're just promoting people being put in arbitrary boxes based on race, nationality, gender, whatever. ...
If you want to "level the playing field" as you call it, you have to start somewhere. If there are groups in society who are clearly disadvantaged, don't those groups deserve the most attention and the most effort in an attempt to level the field? If there are imbalances in society and you want to change that you can't change it by doing something for everyone. That might lift everyone to a higher level (of income, education, etc.) but it would not change the fact that there are imbalances in the system.

Now if one group of disenfranchised people can be characterized by their race or ethnicity, those "boxes" are not arbitrary - they are a tool to identify where change is most needed.

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2016, 02:10:45 AM »
If you want to "level the playing field" as you call it, you have to start somewhere. If there are groups in society who are clearly disadvantaged, don't those groups deserve the most attention and the most effort in an attempt to level the field? If there are imbalances in society and you want to change that you can't change it by doing something for everyone. That might lift everyone to a higher level (of income, education, etc.) but it would not change the fact that there are imbalances in the system.

Now if one group of disenfranchised people can be characterized by their race or ethnicity, those "boxes" are not arbitrary - they are a tool to identify where change is most needed.
Intelligent response!

Offline la dame en noir

  • A resident pansexual woman. That weird black girl. The Cosplayer and the Loud Mouth.
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Georgia
  • Gender: Female
  • "Shepard-Commander" - Legion ME2
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2016, 02:11:41 AM »
And we can't expect a marginalized group to stay silent for long.

The poor French didn't and neither should the minorities. Extremes happen...they change history...

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Black Lives Matter (lil' bit of a rant)
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2016, 02:18:16 AM »
If you want to "level the playing field" as you call it, you have to start somewhere. If there are groups in society who are clearly disadvantaged, don't those groups deserve the most attention and the most effort in an attempt to level the field? If there are imbalances in society and you want to change that you can't change it by doing something for everyone. That might lift everyone to a higher level (of income, education, etc.) but it would not change the fact that there are imbalances in the system.

yes, the most pressing problems need attention first, and if those lay with African-Americans, then they need to be tackled. But my point was: do you need an activist group for that? I don't think you do. Precious few of them over time have ever really made much of a difference, and those that did were more often the ones centered around a single individual speaking out calmly and rationally against something, and rallying people behind them through open dialogue (except violent civil wars such as the French one, of course, but... let's ignore chopping off heads for the time being...). You don't see people like Gandhi asking everyone to slap on t-shirts and go shout at people. I know, it's a silly example, but therein lies the problem. If you join a group, you start to form this "allegiance" in your head. And that allegiance can get violent, ugly and can derail extremely quickly. It's exactly what's happening with BLM right now. No matter how they started out, now they are known for cop killing chants, violence, doxxing, etc. So how exactly is that group helping matters in the slightest? It's moderate members are never heard through the shitstorm, and its extremist members are taking over.

Now if one group of disenfranchised people can be characterized by their race or ethnicity, those "boxes" are not arbitrary - they are a tool to identify where change is most needed.

Yes, but the first step to doing away with those boxes is to stop using them yourself. Some of the problems African-Americans face are shared by anyone in low-income areas, of any race, so why not broaden those specific issues to include them and try to help with poverty in general? The "you have to start somewhere" retort doesn't really work when a given issue has the same set of solutions that need to be looked over.