You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 05, 2016, 07:03:22 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America  (Read 10342 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2008, 12:19:15 PM »
 I'm for that, as long as it's put forth in a reasonable manner, rather then as some have said in other posts and I've read on other forums, forced on us.  When anyone says something is being done 'for the good of us all/for the People/ for your benefit', I always get suspicious since that usually means, 'I'm going to force it down your throat and you WILL like it!', in many instances.

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2008, 12:25:34 PM »
I'm for that, as long as it's put forth in a reasonable manner, rather then as some have said in other posts and I've read on other forums, forced on us.  When anyone says something is being done 'for the good of us all/for the People/ for your benefit', I always get suspicious since that usually means, 'I'm going to force it down your throat and you WILL like it!', in many instances.

Can anyone say, "No child left behind"?

*pinches self and flees before she causes a hijack* Augh! I couldn't resist, I'm sorry!

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2008, 12:31:04 PM »
This is becoming very popular and abundant in California.  All our local energy companies will do this in fact if your house is set up properly for it.  I think its awesome, and all new construction should be made to include these energy conservation utilities.

I think it's something widespread, if people think to ask about it.  These people lived in the DC Metropolitan area.  My point was more that you don't need the big shiny panels on top of your house in order to benefit from solar, whether or not the 'amount of resources for making solar energy panels is at its peak'.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2008, 12:36:10 PM »
 Here's a question, what IS Green technology?  That keeps getting mentioned without much explaination.  

 cleaner air and enviroment keeps getting mentioned as a result of 'green tech', yet is it really?  Is green tech merely a more efficient power plant? Better cleaning systems on factories?  Is being cleaner in the manufactoring/production of something Green?

 
Can anyone say, "No child left behind"?

*pinches self and flees before she causes a hijack* Augh! I couldn't resist, I'm sorry!

 *nod* That's what I mean. The intention might be good, but the process can turn out less than stellar.

Offline Mathim

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2008, 01:01:51 PM »
All I want to know is-do you guys believe that the future (even if it's after a century as some of you believe) will look more like Futurama or Star Wars, or that it will look more like Soylent Green or Idiocracy? Seriously, the latter two are inevitable, we're (and by we, I mean the human race) not going to have a bright, Futurama-y thing to look forward to.

Offline Moondazed

  • Hmm... plot or pleasure? Perhaps a bit of both...
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Location: Virginia, US
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm a switch, name your pleasure...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2008, 01:07:43 PM »
I don't see the point of putting so much energy into negativity, personally. I do the things that I can to have an impact, and there's no way around the fact that we could influence things if enough people took an interest.  Will they?  I don't know.  Do I think they will?  Probably not, but I will not let go of the shred of hope that things can change.

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2008, 01:12:49 PM »
All I want to know is-do you guys believe that the future (even if it's after a century as some of you believe) will look more like Futurama or Star Wars, or that it will look more like Soylent Green or Idiocracy? Seriously, the latter two are inevitable, we're (and by we, I mean the human race) not going to have a bright, Futurama-y thing to look forward to.

I think it's going to be a combination of Waterworld (once the ice caps melt) and this way cool futuristic society that's like how they describe it in Star Trek. We will have discovered how to live on our world without sapping its resources and will have become a united planetary government allowing for globalization without costing ethnic diversity.

I don't think we'll be able to go back in time to save some whales, though. Hopefully we can save the whales before we have to. :(

Here's a question, what IS Green technology?  That keeps getting mentioned without much explaination.  

 cleaner air and enviroment keeps getting mentioned as a result of 'green tech', yet is it really?  Is green tech merely a more efficient power plant? Better cleaning systems on factories?  Is being cleaner in the manufactoring/production of something Green?

My understanding (and it could be different for someone else) is that 'green' technology and methodology is aimed at reducing what people call our 'ecological footprint'... our impact on our environment. It's anything that contributes to making sure that when we leave, we are doing the environmental equipment of leaving things as we found them - or hopefully a little better.

It's like how they told you as a kid that a campsite should look better when you leave it than it did when you arrived, even if you found it in a sorry state.

Offline Valerian

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2008, 01:17:44 PM »
Mathim... I'm going to quote this, because it looks like you didn't read it.
People have been predicting the end of the world since it began. People have been spewing gloom and whatnot since there was a word to express the concept. The world is not going to implode on itself and cease to be. It may change, but that's not an inherently scary concept unless you give into the hind-brain fear of change, even innovative change.

It's really, seriously all about perspective. And apparently (for some) all about blowing people up. :P
I doubt anyone seriously expects a Futurama-style future in the least.  All we're trying to say here is that it isn't going automatically going to look like a Mad Max flick, and people aren't necessarily going to start beating each other over the head with clubs to grab the last potato.

If you took all the time you spend writing posts like that here and used that to do something positive for the world -- any part of the world, not just the environment -- I suspect we'd all feel better.

Offline Mathim

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2008, 01:27:46 PM »
Humanity doesn't deserve that. We've damned ourselves over and over so many times. Besides, as long as the stupid and base outnumber the wise and enlightened there's really nothing that can be done about organizing that type of Waterworld society (which would be pretty cool, though...) I mean, it's like Day of the Dead-the stupid army guys screwed everything up in the end and the few smart people were backed into a corner and didn't have much to fall back on, even in that apocalyptic world.

Offline Valerian

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2008, 01:36:02 PM »
*smacks forehead*  Okay, fine.  We don't deserve that.  So, exactly why are you posting all this, then?  Seems like a waste of your time if we're really all doomed, and you won't even get the chance to say "I told you so."

I think it's something widespread, if people think to ask about it.  These people lived in the DC Metropolitan area.  My point was more that you don't need the big shiny panels on top of your house in order to benefit from solar, whether or not the 'amount of resources for making solar energy panels is at its peak'.
That's what's known as passive solar, I believe, and it really can work wonders for houses; so by extension, I see no reason why it can't also be used to help defray the costs of maintaining larger buildings.  It's things like that, incorporated into new building work, that can really make a difference in the long-term, and from what I understand, it isn't nearly as expensive as people often think.

Offline Mathim

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2008, 01:44:28 PM »
Let me ask this then-is it wrong to prepare for the absolute worst, when there's a fair chance it's going to happen? No one seems to have a back-up plan if s*** hits the fan. I mean, look at the Walmart trampling incident on Black Friday. Like I said then, if you think that's bad, then what happens when there are food shortages or food starts costing so much that most of America, who are impoverished, can't afford it? People aren't rational enough not to panic in situations like that, at least, not most people, especially those who grow up with a sense of entitlement like most Americans.

Offline Moondazed

  • Hmm... plot or pleasure? Perhaps a bit of both...
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Location: Virginia, US
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm a switch, name your pleasure...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2008, 01:45:34 PM »
Do you feel that negativity is a form of preparation?

Offline Mathim

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2008, 01:47:11 PM »
I call it being realistic but you can call it what you will. After all, when it happens I'll be making the best of a bad situation, won't I?

Offline Moondazed

  • Hmm... plot or pleasure? Perhaps a bit of both...
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Location: Virginia, US
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm a switch, name your pleasure...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2008, 01:51:01 PM »
Humanity doesn't deserve that. We've damned ourselves over and over so many times. Besides, as long as the stupid and base outnumber the wise and enlightened there's really nothing that can be done about organizing that type of Waterworld society (which would be pretty cool, though...) I mean, it's like Day of the Dead-the stupid army guys screwed everything up in the end and the few smart people were backed into a corner and didn't have much to fall back on, even in that apocalyptic world.

There are so many illogical fallacies in the above that I don't see how you can call that realistic.  Whether or not 'humanity has damned itself' is subjective, and it's not realistic to base your hypothesis on a horror movie ;)

Offline Mathim

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2008, 02:00:49 PM »
Nor is it wise to delude oneself into thinking everything's going to be okay. Even if it's all fine and hunky-dory for you, a whole hell of a lot of people are going to be suffering in the meantime until things pull back together, IF they do. I just tend to dwell on that more than others. I suffered a lot growing up and it kills me inside knowing others are doing the same, and now it's just going to keep getting worse.

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2008, 02:01:23 PM »
Mmh.

I don't know what the purpose of the original post was exactly other than expression of an idea ... but I can't help but feel that this has gotten off track.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2008, 02:03:40 PM »
We have cleaner ,by far over say the year 1900, and water because of public demand and health reasons. Water before treatment used to kill people and air was face it like China now. We had a river by Lake Erie catch fire. I'm all for reasonable and sensible use of technology when there is a demand by the citizens to do something we just aren't there yet for alternative energy.

May I ask a typical solar system that is inefficient, uses toxic acid batteries to store power and vulnerable to storms which are sometimes large in Florida (hurricanes) cost $25,000 a system not including maintenance ,more or less, I think. So why should a homeowner spend that kind of money for a system that likely will need repairs, raise home insurance rates (a big concern in Florida) and that cost more per kilowatt to produce power. Than say a coal fired power plant which is the standard technology, is actually pretty clean with the right technology and produces power cheaper by a large amount. Where is the free market practical incentives unless government pays for it which is suing OUR tax dollars to pay for such a impractical technology.

As for the US worst case scenario we can ration gas, we produce more food than any other nation on Earth we can feed our people just fine and sealing our country off can be done. If nothing else we can use food to buy the support of China who may need opil but need to feed over a billion people. The US is we have to stand alone can do so rather well. Its the poorer nations in unstable areas you have to be concerned about. We can prorduce enough oil for our industrial use and necessary transportation if we had to. Cars would just have to be electric and some infrastructural changes made.

Likely with standard modest research in fifty years or a century you might get there and when such a system is cheaper people will use them say a panel system is really sturdy and costs $5000 to put into a house producing better power then you will get people to use them.

The infrastructure ok I get spending on but why highways in my area we have been looking for a regional light rail for decades and never had the money instead of more highways why not push mass transportation and giving everyone free high speed internet access that would likely spur on improvements better in the economy.

Offline Valerian

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2008, 02:15:12 PM »
Passive solar systems don't use any batteries or pumps or other parts that can go wrong or be vulnerable to storms, though.  This involves using the design of the house itself (locations of windows and trees, awnings, insulation, etc.) to help gather and store solar energy.  It's easiest when building new buildings, of course, but it can also be retrofitted into older homes.  So that, at least, is far from being an impractical technology.

I'm not sure electric cars will ever actually be practical -- does anyone know more about that?  But yes, investing in more public transport should definitely be encouraged, alongside alternative energies.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2008, 02:39:19 PM »
Try but passive solar requires sunlight, nighttime demands some way to store energy or a power production capacity in the grid of an area. And how much do all these features cost I know my parents are middle class and would have a hard time paying for a fancy house. I did see an example house on tv that was a million dollars what the hell are they thinking an average lower middle class family couldn't afford that. One must assume a certain percentage of the population are going to be earning say $30,000 - 40,000 a year so in my mind a how would have to be relatively inexpensive paying a typical fixed rate twenty to thirty year mortgage. Is the technology there yet? Say you can build such a home for $125,000 for a modest non-McMansion home.

The kind of home most people really could afford at that level using standard practices, 20% down and payments that are sensible.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2008, 02:45:22 PM »
With solar-heated water used as a means of cutting heating costs, the energy would be stored in the water, which would be in insulated pipes/tanks.  As I mentioned in my initial post, the interior walls were also insulated with quilts.  Perfectly non-impact in an environmental sense.  From what I remember, the house in question was also not a mansion by any stretch of the word (seriously, a smaller house is going to be cheaper to heat than a 30-room mansion).

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2008, 02:46:06 PM »
Try but passive solar requires sunlight, nighttime demands some way to store energy or a power production capacity in the grid of an area. And how much do all these features cost I know my parents are middle class and would have a hard time paying for a fancy house. I did see an example house on tv that was a million dollars what the hell are they thinking an average lower middle class family couldn't afford that. One must assume a certain percentage of the population are going to be earning say $30,000 - 40,000 a year so in my mind a how would have to be relatively inexpensive paying a typical fixed rate twenty to thirty year mortgage. Is the technology there yet? Say you can build such a home for $125,000 for a modest non-McMansion home.

The kind of home most people really could afford at that level using standard practices, 20% down and payments that are sensible.


The computer you are using was, in its earlier iterations, hundred of thousands of dollars and the size of a room.

Things improve. They get smaller, cheaper and easier... until the 500sq. ft. computer becomes a simple 1sq. ft. 4-pound laptop like theone I'm using.

Offline Valerian

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2008, 02:49:38 PM »
It does take nighttime storage of the energy into account, and apparently can be very efficient.  I know it works here in northern climes, so I would think it would do even better in the southerly areas.  I'm no good at the technical details, but I could post the site I was looking at if anyone's interested.

The beauty of using this for new homes is that sometimes, at least, it literally doesn't cost any more.  You need to use a house design meant for this, but the actual, physical construction costs from 0-15% more, according to what I was reading.  So it's possible it may cost a little more, but it doesn't have to cost a million dollars or anything like that, unless you're building a large, expensive home to begin with.

Edit: And I've been beaten to it, but here it is anyway.  Heh.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2008, 03:02:08 PM »
 Mathim, you are coming off to a lot of people as 1, very pessimistic in automatically assuming the worst will happen, 2, seeming to -want- the worst to happen, 3, wanting to be able to shoot/hurt someone as soon as it happens.  All your posts have more or less been, 'The world is Fsked! It's time to kill to survive and I think that is cool!'  
Quote
there's really nothing that can be done about organizing that type of Waterworld society (which would be pretty cool, though...)

 You seem to almost have a fetish for the end of the world in apocalyptic ways. Waterworld, Mad Max, Zombie invasions....

 *shakes head*


 On to other things,
 
Quote
The infrastructure ok I get spending on but why highways in my area we have been looking for a regional light rail for decades and never had the money instead of more highways why not push mass transportation and giving everyone free high speed internet access that would likely spur on improvements better in the economy.

 Mass transit only works in heavily populated areas. Out side of the cities, it is an inefficient way to travel. The highways get a lot of focus because of the volume of traffic on them. Including personal vehicles and all of the service vehicles/trucks. Everything you buy ends up travelling on a truck at some point. The rails only carry the goods so far. From there they need to be dispursed to the factories/stores/shops that make/sell the goods.  Plus as much as people like the mass transit, it operates on a schedule(when it sticks to it). Where as with a car, you hop into it and go where you need to, when you need to. You are not stuck if you miss the scheduled train.

 Where I live, mass transit would not work for most of the people because we all live spread out. Maybe 1/4 of the county population is in the cities and in Idaho, most are spread across the state. Washington is more concentrated, but the eastern part of the state has 1 large city, many smaller ones and a large number that live far from population centers. Mass transit is simply not efficient.

 Now a line that runs between the cities, that might be more worthwhile. IF people can be persuaded to use it. There in lies the trick. Getting people to use mass transit.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2008, 03:04:09 PM »
 How do homes like that work in the northern areas? I mean the passive solar heating? For 4 months, it's cold with snow. There isn't a lot of sun or solar heat put out to heat anything until the spring rolls around.

Offline Valerian

Re: The Wheels Come Off the United States of America
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2008, 03:17:28 PM »
I can't possibly summarize the details of how it works, since I don't understand them myself, but I was looking at this page.  If it works in Wisconsin, it can work anywhere!  Heh.