You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
May 22, 2017, 06:24:36 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?  (Read 8680 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Far eyes

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2016, 01:45:48 PM »
Quote
institutional racism
*Sigh*  No... no i am not even going to.

Quote
Sadiq Khan's comment about the transport board in London

Is this the one ware he suggests firing people based on there race and sex? And then hiring others based on there race and sex? That one?

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2016, 01:57:36 PM »
Yes, overall in the US and Europe the majority is white, but when you break it down there are places within both where this is not the case and yet still the people in power are white. Like Sadiq Khan's comment about the transport board in London. (Also, in the US at least, white men are over represented in Congress and the Senate).

And it isn't just possible that people of color happen to not give a single care about being on that transport board? They are actively being warded from such a position of immense power? What do you suggest happens? Quotas? Lay off some white people and replace them with other ethnicities? Or bloat the board by only adding more people (I'm from Belgium, trust me, you don't want to bloat any kind of board *looks at his government and winces*).

Not to mention people from different backgrounds bring up different ways of solving issues and probems. We need a diversity in thought and outlooks. You are also arguing against arguments that I never made here ;)

Sure, agreed. But how do you suggest we do this? Do we let these people work their way up like everyone else has to? Or do we just hand these positions out to whoever comes by sporting the right color of skin or gender?

Your insistence that social justice is all bad is very confusing. I suggest you look up the history of the term, movements, etc besides what people like this youtuber present. Ignore internet "social justice" and people who do shit just for themselves and instead read about rich histories of different activist groups who have fought over decades and centuries for things like welfare rights, the right to vote, against colonial powers, for a fair wage, against child labor, etc.

Modern social justice in the West has slowly become synonymous with university activism and internet nonsense, yes, so when I say social justice, that is what I am referring to, not people who did good in the world. I have a deep respect for feminists who gave women the right to vote, for example, who were also arguable warriors for social justice. But nowadays, the movement (if you unfairly lump it all together, I know) has been poisoned.
As for what this Youtuber presents, you again assume things he does not do, as he also mentions things you have many times. You keep putting words in his mouth based on fractions of one video.

I don't think its a conspiracy but I do think its a sign of institutional racism when the people with power have always been one section of the demographic. How does that happen "naturally"?

Did I say naturally? But why is it racism? Can it not be that other races live in poorer places in the US? Low job opportunities because of an ailing economy? With few money to go around comes a struggle to educate. With a lack of education comes a lack of high-end opportunities. With a lack of those, you hit a brick wall when climbing the ladder. Is it fair? No. Should it change? Yes. But is it immediately all because of white people being racist?
Additionally, with poverty comes boredom. Bored kids hit the streets. Some of those get into criminality. You start getting ghettos, which in turn give other youths a sense that they have no way out. Ambition takes a hit. Those that do get to go to school somewhere have no motivation or get into the wrong crowd. Slash a few more potentially very competent people from the job market. Again, these things have nothing to do with racism since it happens to plenty of white kids too.
These are just two examples off the top of my head, I'm sure we could both find many more scenarios. Sometimes racism will be the cause. Sometimes you will go present yourself at a job where the interviewer is a racist bigot who will make up some stupid reason why you're unfit and write you off. But it's far too convenient to call it institutionalized when most people I've ever met don't seem to give two cents what skin color someone is as long as you can get the job done.

Is this the one ware he suggests firing people based on there race and sex? And then hiring others based on there race and sex? That one?

Yes, but it's not racist because he's not white. He can say these things.

Online Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2016, 02:01:45 PM »
*institutional Racism* errr....im kind of in the party that says 'Yes this does exist, just not at the levels that some people say."

Its more like a cancerous sore in various parts rather than the entire system top to bottom is racist. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:21:01 PM by Lustful Bride »

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2016, 02:03:21 PM »
*institutional Racism* errr....im kind of in the party that says 'Yes this does exist, just not at the levels that some people say."

Its more like a cancerous sore in various parts rather than the entire system top to bottom is racist.

I think you can find it in bigoted places, places where racism is still deeply ingrained. But indeed, for some, it seems to be everywhere. It's very easy to blame life on others, after all.

Online Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2016, 02:05:18 PM »
I think you can find it in bigoted places, places where racism is still deeply ingrained. But indeed, for some, it seems to be everywhere. It's very easy to blame life on others, after all.

Which most people would say is the south since that's the stereotype but I say its in many places and cannot be pinned down to just one place. Evil is in the hearts of all men, and wears many masks.

Offline Far eyes

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2016, 02:12:13 PM »
Institutionalized racism would be something like a proposal to take land away from a racial group based on there race. And then you call it something ells like... say a Land Reform.


Offline Maiz

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2016, 02:32:31 PM »
Is this the one ware he suggests firing people based on there race and sex? And then hiring others based on there race and sex? That one?

The transport board is appointed so no need to worry about people getting fired! I'm assuming he will appoint new people once the previous people's terms are up.

And it isn't just possible that people of color happen to not give a single care about being on that transport board? They are actively being warded from such a position of immense power? What do you suggest happens? Quotas? Lay off some white people and replace them with other ethnicities? Or bloat the board by only adding more people (I'm from Belgium, trust me, you don't want to bloat any kind of board *looks at his government and winces*).

Sure, agreed. But how do you suggest we do this? Do we let these people work their way up like everyone else has to? Or do we just hand these positions out to whoever comes by sporting the right color of skin or gender?

Modern social justice in the West has slowly become synonymous with university activism and internet nonsense, yes, so when I say social justice, that is what I am referring to, not people who did good in the world. I have a deep respect for feminists who gave women the right to vote, for example, who were also arguable warriors for social justice. But nowadays, the movement (if you unfairly lump it all together, I know) has been poisoned.

Did I say naturally? But why is it racism? Can it not be that other races live in poorer places in the US? Low job opportunities because of an ailing economy? With few money to go around comes a struggle to educate. With a lack of education comes a lack of high-end opportunities. With a lack of those, you hit a brick wall when climbing the ladder. Is it fair? No. Should it change? Yes. But is it immediately all because of white people being racist?
Additionally, with poverty comes boredom. Bored kids hit the streets. Some of those get into criminality. You start getting ghettos, which in turn give other youths a sense that they have no way out. Ambition takes a hit. Those that do get to go to school somewhere have no motivation or get into the wrong crowd. Slash a few more potentially very competent people from the job market. Again, these things have nothing to do with racism since it happens to plenty of white kids too.
These are just two examples off the top of my head, I'm sure we could both find many more scenarios. Sometimes racism will be the cause. Sometimes you will go present yourself at a job where the interviewer is a racist bigot who will make up some stupid reason why you're unfit and write you off. But it's far too convenient to call it institutionalized when most people I've ever met don't seem to give two cents what skin color someone is as long as you can get the job done.

I'm guessing people of color (and white people!) do care since they elected Khan. :) Again, the board is appointed so... he would just appoint different people... and the next mayor would appoint different people.. etc.

We should encourage and promote different people to run for positions, in whichever way a country deems appropriate. :) Maybe its limiting how much $ a person can use in an election campaign.

I completely disagree re: "Western Modern social justice" ;) You should look into the matter more in depth avoiding university or internet activism. ;) ;)

Because the race of a person affects what opportunities/jobs/education they can receive and race can show life expectancy/wages/health outcomes etc. We can change it by funding education for everyone. In the US there are several places where funding for schools is tied to property tax, which has been found unconstitutional on a state level in Ohio, which means schools in poor neighborhoods get less funding. Those poor neighborhoods end up overrepresented by people of color. We could change how that funding system works, but yet people don't.

Your understanding of racism is very flawed. It's not about individual people being racist. While that is hurtful it does not explain racism. Racism is the embedded structure where one race benefits. It works with classism a lot of the times. :) So, in the state of funding schools, people who are wealthier (and more likely to be white) are benefiting from a system where funding flows to wealthier (and more likely to be white) schools. Where as the poor (who are both white and not white) are hurt by this situation. :D I hope this explains some things.

Institutionalized racism would be something like a proposal to take land away from a racial group based on there race. And then you call it something ells like... say a Land Reform.

What should happen when the land was owned by people indigenous to the land but then that land was taken and redistributed to corporations or wealthy foreigners or the elites of the country? Should it just remain in the hands of the few? Or should it be split up and given to people who can then sustain themselves on the land and no longer be in poverty?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:33:57 PM by Maiz »

Online Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2016, 02:41:52 PM »
What should happen when the land was owned by people indigenous to the land but then that land was taken and redistributed to corporations or wealthy foreigners or the elites of the country? Should it just remain in the hands of the few? Or should it be split up and given to people who can then sustain themselves on the land and no longer be in poverty?

But then what if those people have not owned that land in generations and another group lives there now, and has lived there all their lives? Should they be punished for their ancestors? Should they be forced to move because someone else who hasn't lived there or cared and taken care of the land suddenly wants it back?

I agree with a fair bit of what you say in part but it feels like you are making it too cut and dry in some of your arguments. If the world was that simple and easy to fix up we wouldn't be having this thread. (As much as id wish the world were fixed)

Offline Far eyes

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2016, 02:44:05 PM »
Quote
What should happen when the land was owned by people indigenous to the land but then that land was taken and redistributed to corporations or wealthy foreigners or the elites of the country? Should it just remain in the hands of the few? Or should it be split up and given to people who can then sustain themselves on the land and no longer be in poverty?

How meany years ago? Do you think one wrong deserves another? And then given to who? Determined by what, probably buddy ship with the current power? Lets hope justice like that dos not get on to meany people.

Using the same logic you can justify any number of horrific crimes, blood fudes are based on logic like that a never ending cycle of blood and guilt passed down from one group/family to the other and one group/family is always 1 point up so its time for the other side to get equal.

The reason this pisses me right the fuck off, is because Hungarian nationalists in my own country work on this similar logic. They have this magical mystical picture of a grate Magyarorszag. The country they mean never existed as such, yes technically all those bits were at one time land owned by what is Hungaria it was not exactly the same thing all the while. But they demand that this place be a part of Hungary because there fantasy land, because yes historically Hungarian did extend out to here at one point. (They are not a large group, its a quck community but the reasoning goes along the same lines and being part Hungarian i occasionally have to deal with these...  individuals)   

« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:50:08 PM by Far eyes »

Offline Maiz

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2016, 02:46:35 PM »
But then what if those people have not owned that land in generations and another group lives there now, and has lived there all their lives? Should they be punished for their ancestors? Should they be forced to move because someone else who hasn't lived there or cared and taken care of the land suddenly wants it back?

I agree with a fair bit of what you say in part but it feels like you are making it too cut and dry in some of your arguments. If the world was that simple and easy to fix up we wouldn't be having this thread. (As much as id wish the world were fixed)

No, being punished for what happened generations ago should not happen.. but no one needs millions of acres of land when the people who used to own it are now starving :) Land reform is pretty interesting and has been handled in several ways. Its fun to study

How meany years ago? Do you think one wrong deserves another? And then given to who? Determined by what, probably buddy ship with the current power? Lets hope justice like that dos not get on to meany people.

Using the same logic you can justify any number of horrific crimes, blood fudes are based on logic like that a never ending cycle of blood and guilt passed down from one group/family to the other and one group/family is always 1 point up so its time for the other side to get equal.

What if people vote to redistribute the land so that its just more equal? Previous people still have their land.. just not as much as before so that others can own land too.

Please don't put words in my mouth thank you. :D

Online Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2016, 02:50:51 PM »
What if people vote to redistribute the land so that its just more equal? Previous people still have their land.. just not as much as before so that others can own land too.

Please don't put words in my mouth thank you. :D

Your giving too much credit to humanity. (or maybe ive only seen the worst too much and been too long in the dark)  But you can barely get people to form an orderly line, or to drive on the right side of the road without problems.

Offline Maiz

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2016, 02:53:30 PM »
Your giving too much credit to humanity. (or maybe ive only seen the worst too much and been too long in the dark)  But you can barely get people to form an orderly line, or to drive on the right side of the road without problems.

:) Soooo cynical. Land reform has been attempted and worked for a while and failed for various reasons. Theres no reason to say it can't work.. but people in power (who have $) tend not to like it ;) so they fund ways to make it fail of course!

Offline Far eyes

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2016, 02:53:48 PM »
Quote
What if people vote to redistribute the land so that its just more equal? Previous people still have their land.. just not as much as before so that others can own land too.
More equal?
Yes violent seizure of land lead to more equality, oh yes ex Communist countries histories is full of that type of more equality. Its written in blood, real peoples real blood. Dont misunderstand i do not think you are stupid, i think you are naive either on purpose or by being sheltered

I am fucking done...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:56:31 PM by Far eyes »

Offline Maiz

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 02:56:18 PM »
More equal?
Yes violent measures of land lead to more equality, oh yes ex Communist countries histories is full of that type of more equality. Its written in blood, real peoples real blood. Dont misunderstand i do not think you are stupid, i think you are naive either on purpose or by choice

My knowledge is mostly based on Latin American countries where, yes after revolution against a system that was entirely unjust and unfair, people attempted land reforms. These failed for various reasons, mostly because the people who previous held millions of acres of land did not agree with the majority of people who wanted land reform.

But you are ignoring the deaths, blood, forced labor, etc that went into concentrating land into large parcels owned by very few people. Is that not also bad? Should we keep the status quo? That does not seem right to me.

anyway this is very off topic! Back to the point, no one needs to worry about being fired since the london transport board is appointed which means people on it serve terms and then are either reappointed or replaced by new appointees
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:58:23 PM by Maiz »

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2016, 02:36:57 AM »
The transport board is appointed so no need to worry about people getting fired! I'm assuming he will appoint new people once the previous people's terms are up.

Ah yes, I'm going to guess they will be using those lovely quotas to that end. Good good.

I'm guessing people of color (and white people!) do care since they elected Khan. :) Again, the board is appointed so... he would just appoint different people... and the next mayor would appoint different people.. etc.

Of course they did, doesn't matter whether he will do a good job or anything, he brings up some race relations things and the election is his.

We should encourage and promote different people to run for positions, in whichever way a country deems appropriate. :) Maybe its limiting how much $ a person can use in an election campaign.

Sure, I agree that we need to encourage a climate where skin color and gender are entirely irrelevant, something that does start in education but also at home where parents make sure their children are blind to these differences (even though kids actually ARE blind to these things until overly sensitive parents start pointing things out 24/7). But again, there should never be quotas that discriminate or disable the best person for the job to get the job.
As for the corruption in an election campaign, that does seem to be a significant issue in the US, for example, where I sometimes fall off my chair when I see how much they spend on just getting their faces put on billboards...

I completely disagree re: "Western Modern social justice" ;) You should look into the matter more in depth avoiding university or internet activism. ;) ;)

You assume I haven't just because you disagree. I have yet to find meaningful, substantial movements in the West that are getting the sort of attention social activists at university are. If you can give me examples to the contrary, please do, but otherwise don't just make the claim I can't be bothered to look these things up when you're the one passing judgement on someone on YouTube based on fragments of one video and say you can't be bothered to look at more before making a judgement call.

Because the race of a person affects what opportunities/jobs/education they can receive and race can show life expectancy/wages/health outcomes etc. We can change it by funding education for everyone. In the US there are several places where funding for schools is tied to property tax, which has been found unconstitutional on a state level in Ohio, which means schools in poor neighborhoods get less funding. Those poor neighborhoods end up overrepresented by people of color. We could change how that funding system works, but yet people don't.

That's not race, that's their situation, which used to have race as a larger factor due to things such as segregation, but are now much more heavily tied to local economy. Race also does not change wages, it changes income based on the jobs they receive. Unless they're working illegally (an issue over here in Belgium) they'll get whatever wage is appropriate for a given job. Same for the wage gap myth related to women.
As for funding for schools being tied to property tax, I agree, that's a horrible system that will keep poor neighborhoods poor, but again, this has nothing to do with race and more just stupidity or callousness on the part of politicians; a universal theme. Don't assume people don't because "dem black", they don't because it would take money out of their or their friends' pockets. It's greed. It's almost always greed.

Your understanding of racism is very flawed. It's not about individual people being racist. While that is hurtful it does not explain racism. Racism is the embedded structure where one race benefits. It works with classism a lot of the times. :) So, in the state of funding schools, people who are wealthier (and more likely to be white) are benefiting from a system where funding flows to wealthier (and more likely to be white) schools. Where as the poor (who are both white and not white) are hurt by this situation. :D I hope this explains some things.

I did not say it was about individual people being racist. Groups of people can be racist. But it has nothing to do with it being an embedded structure where one race benefits. It can be part of the government's policy, sure, but you cannot make that claim without some serious evidence backing it up. Apartheid is a good example of institutional racism as it involved actual laws based on race. A parallel can also be drawn to custody or rape laws that are heavily based on gender; these are institutional. It's purely about deeming one ethnicity or race (both terms are a bit muddy) inferior based completely on arbitrary, meaningless features such as the color of their skin, the shape of their eyes or any other common, identifying trait of that race. You are still just describing a system that benefits the wealthy with the motivation of greed and not bigotry towards other races. You even say so yourself that the poor are hurt by this situation and that they are both white and not white. So how exactly does that define racism in the US?

What should happen when the land was owned by people indigenous to the land but then that land was taken and redistributed to corporations or wealthy foreigners or the elites of the country? Should it just remain in the hands of the few? Or should it be split up and given to people who can then sustain themselves on the land and no longer be in poverty?

Just because you give land back to people doesn't mean poverty magically goes away. Plenty of poor people manage to own a house or even a small business. Was it wrong for people in the past to take land away aggressively as they did in the US? Of course, but I fail to see why current day people need to be punished for the sins of their forefathers. If that were the case, we should all pay everyone else reparations because someone, somewhere, will have caused someone somewhere, indirectly or directly, grievances through an ancestor. Most African-Americans would need to go to Africa and demand local figures of authority to pay them reparations for their ancestors selling them to Western slavers en mass in exchange for weapons and other tools they needed to install lasting dictatorships. Doesn't make a lick of sense.

anyway this is very off topic! Back to the point, no one needs to worry about being fired since the london transport board is appointed which means people on it serve terms and then are either reappointed or replaced by new appointees

Actually, this is still off-topic, my initial question was: how many people do you think prescribe to the SJW mindset, and is it really a danger on campus that is having far-reaching consequences like Sargon describes.

Online ElvenKitten

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2016, 05:11:48 AM »
I don't think it's the number of people thats the issue but the amount of power they seem to have. More often than not the media takes their side using the same flawed statistics and arguments. The BBC is probably the worst offender in this and I've seen them bring in more and more SJW propaganda.


Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2016, 05:14:56 AM »
I don't think it's the number of people thats the issue but the amount of power they seem to have. More often than not the media takes their side using the same flawed statistics and arguments. The BBC is probably the worst offender in this and I've seen them bring in more and more SJW propaganda.

I've noticed that too whenever my wife has the BBC news on (she's English). Just a lot of blatant lying or twisting facts going on; it's quite messy.

Offline Maiz

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2016, 01:16:35 PM »
Ah yes, I'm going to guess they will be using those lovely quotas to that end. Good good.

Sure, I agree that we need to encourage a climate where skin color and gender are entirely irrelevant, something that does start in education but also at home where parents make sure their children are blind to these differences (even though kids actually ARE blind to these things until overly sensitive parents start pointing things out 24/7). But again, there should never be quotas that discriminate or disable the best person for the job to get the job.
As for the corruption in an election campaign, that does seem to be a significant issue in the US, for example, where I sometimes fall off my chair when I see how much they spend on just getting their faces put on billboards...

You assume I haven't just because you disagree. I have yet to find meaningful, substantial movements in the West that are getting the sort of attention social activists at university are. If you can give me examples to the contrary, please do, but otherwise don't just make the claim I can't be bothered to look these things up when you're the one passing judgement on someone on YouTube based on fragments of one video and say you can't be bothered to look at more before making a judgement call.

That's not race, that's their situation, which used to have race as a larger factor due to things such as segregation, but are now much more heavily tied to local economy. Race also does not change wages, it changes income based on the jobs they receive. Unless they're working illegally (an issue over here in Belgium) they'll get whatever wage is appropriate for a given job. Same for the wage gap myth related to women.
As for funding for schools being tied to property tax, I agree, that's a horrible system that will keep poor neighborhoods poor, but again, this has nothing to do with race and more just stupidity or callousness on the part of politicians; a universal theme. Don't assume people don't because "dem black", they don't because it would take money out of their or their friends' pockets. It's greed. It's almost always greed.

I did not say it was about individual people being racist. Groups of people can be racist. But it has nothing to do with it being an embedded structure where one race benefits. It can be part of the government's policy, sure, but you cannot make that claim without some serious evidence backing it up. Apartheid is a good example of institutional racism as it involved actual laws based on race. A parallel can also be drawn to custody or rape laws that are heavily based on gender; these are institutional. It's purely about deeming one ethnicity or race (both terms are a bit muddy) inferior based completely on arbitrary, meaningless features such as the color of their skin, the shape of their eyes or any other common, identifying trait of that race. You are still just describing a system that benefits the wealthy with the motivation of greed and not bigotry towards other races. You even say so yourself that the poor are hurt by this situation and that they are both white and not white. So how exactly does that define racism in the US?

Actually, this is still off-topic, my initial question was: how many people do you think prescribe to the SJW mindset, and is it really a danger on campus that is having far-reaching consequences like Sargon describes.

How is that a quota? He has not mentioned, from what I've googled, any mention about setting a quota, just about appointing different people. All this handwringing about firing people or quotas is borderline hysterical.


You should look into why colorblindness is unproductive and in fact minimalizes and hides patterns of racism. Also, the myth of meritocracy is another thing you should look into. "The best person for the job" is often overly white and male and that starts to look fishy when other people are passed over. Sometimes that may be the right person but a lot of times its not.

For movements you could look up Black Panthers in the 70s and the free meals they provided, you could look at immigration rights activists, you could look at welfare rights organizations, the fight for a living wage ($15 now), these are all US based. Look on local and small scale levels and you will find a lot of stuff

I really wish the wage gap was a myth but sadly its not. Even when other issues are controlled theres still unexplained gaps due to race and gender. Assuming that the free hand of the market is color blind is quite silly and not based in reality. You claim that funding isnt tied to race, but it clearly is, my friend :) You can read the history of it in several books, along with issues like housing and transportation. Examples: Sugrue The origins of the Urban Crisis, Kruse, White Flight, Lassiter The Silent Majority. Also, it's pretty fucked up that you assume all people of color are black (though I know why you do, its because of how poverty is tied to blackness and then disparaged) and then use some really racist language. Seriously, "dem black"? Who does that? That is not very civil of you.

Try reading the books I mentioned or anything that looks at the history of the US economy. Poverty in the US affects people across race, however it is highly concentrated in communities of color (whether Black or Latino or Hmong or native or whatever else). These groups also tend to have less access to resources or are denied resources more often. They are often more vilified for their poverty (See your "dem black" comment).

To answer your question, I take issue with "SJW" since it seems to encompass any left leaning ideology that you/Sargon do not agree with. There are plenty of people working for economic justice or against racism or against sexism or against a lot of other issues. I don't think its a danger. Some people will use it to excuse their asshole behavior but jumping to point to them as the rule not the exception is flawed.

Neither of us are going to change the other's mind, so we can stop the pretense of this "debate". I mostly started commenting on this thread because I wanted the record to show though that someone dissented since I know when I read threads like these it feels toxic when everyone agrees with this rabid reactionary "SJW are dangerous and everywhere" discourse.

Offline Far eyes

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2016, 01:38:47 PM »
Quote
You should look into why colorblindness is unproductive and in fact minimalizes and hides patterns of racism. Also, the myth of meritocracy is another thing you should look into.

I just want you to sit there and read that to your self in a difference voice.

Quote
I really wish the wage gap was a myth but sadly its not.






Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2016, 01:55:47 PM »
How is that a quota? He has not mentioned, from what I've googled, any mention about setting a quota, just about appointing different people. All this handwringing about firing people or quotas is borderline hysterical.

Because that is generally what happens. Happens over here all the time.

You should look into why colorblindness is unproductive and in fact minimalizes and hides patterns of racism. Also, the myth of meritocracy is another thing you should look into. "The best person for the job" is often overly white and male and that starts to look fishy when other people are passed over. Sometimes that may be the right person but a lot of times its not.

So you're just going to ignore the reasons I gave as to why that happens to often be white people (not even going into gender at this time)? I just told you a lot of that is attributed to education, which is skewed right now and something should be done to help people of all races get the education they need/deserve. But again, that is usually because of financial reasons.

For movements you could look up Black Panthers in the 70s and the free meals they provided, you could look at immigration rights activists, you could look at welfare rights organizations, the fight for a living wage ($15 now), these are all US based. Look on local and small scale levels and you will find a lot of stuff

In the 70s.

I really wish the wage gap was a myth but sadly its not. Even when other issues are controlled theres still unexplained gaps due to race and gender.

Go look up some papers on the subject and tell me again that the gap is unexplained. Many of the high paying jobs (often due to things like hazard pay) or because of pregnancy, time off taken, and so, women tend to get jobs that earn less, or miss the boat on promotion. But that isn't because they're women, oftentimes that is because they make the very conscious choice to choose something else over that promotion. There is nothing wrong about that, so long as that choice is not forced on them, and last time I checked in the West, it isn't.

Assuming that the free hand of the market is color blind is quite silly and not based in reality. You claim that funding isnt tied to race, but it clearly is, my friend :) You can read the history of it in several books, along with issues like housing and transportation. Examples: Sugrue The origins of the Urban Crisis, Kruse, White Flight, Lassiter The Silent Majority.

Not based in reality? Okay.

Also, it's pretty fucked up that you assume all people of color are black (though I know why you do, its because of how poverty is tied to blackness and then disparaged) and then use some really racist language. Seriously, "dem black"? Who does that? That is not very civil of you.

Er... Where did I assume that? I was giving an example, not making any claims of the sort. Also, ever heard of someone being facetious? It seems not. Pity. Making more assumptions about people is the uncivil thing to do, miss Maiz.

Try reading the books I mentioned or anything that looks at the history of the US economy. Poverty in the US affects people across race, however it is highly concentrated in communities of color (whether Black or Latino or Hmong or native or whatever else). These groups also tend to have less access to resources or are denied resources more often. They are often more vilified for their poverty (See your "dem black" comment).

*snorts* Again with the "dem black". Mirth really is lost on you.

To answer your question, I take issue with "SJW" since it seems to encompass any left leaning ideology that you/Sargon do not agree with. There are plenty of people working for economic justice or against racism or against sexism or against a lot of other issues. I don't think its a danger. Some people will use it to excuse their asshole behavior but jumping to point to them as the rule not the exception is flawed.

Again, you are making assumptions that I lob all left leaning ideologies in with SJW. You are also once again making assumptions on people you don't know. You are basically reinforcing the stereotype that anyone who does not agree with a given ideology is instantly against everything it stands for and everyone that agrees with parts of the ideology. You're also instantly assuming that I am not against racism, or sexism and any number of other social justice causes. You also think I don't know and find it deplorable that the label SJW is flung at everything that people don't agree with, but don't act as though people from both sides don't do this. Labels like that are used by people of all manner of opinions to shut down conversation, and I have done nothing of the sort, and neither has Sargon since he speaks about these things are tremendous length in all of his videos EXCEPT This Week in Stupid, which is intended as a semi-humorous, very brief glance at events over the week that his viewers asked him to glance over. Not exactly helping your case here.

Neither of us are going to change the other's mind, so we can stop the pretense of this "debate". I mostly started commenting on this thread because I wanted the record to show though that someone dissented since I know when I read threads like these it feels toxic when everyone agrees with this rabid reactionary "SJW are dangerous and everywhere" discourse.

This is not a debate, or I'd be going out to find evidence and facts to support my viewpoint. This is a discussion, nothing more.
Also, get a sense of humor, and stop assuming things about people you have no idea of knowing nor have been given any indication of.




There's a reason people asked Shoe0nHead to make that section separate *snorts*.

Offline Maiz

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2016, 01:56:36 PM »
I just want you to sit there and read that to your self in a difference voice.


http://www.aauw.org/files/2016/02/SimpleTruth_Spring2016.pdf
http://inequality.stanford.edu/cpi-research/area/inequality (you can search wage/pay gap)
http://blog.dol.gov/2012/06/07/myth-busting-the-pay-gap/

Sorry, I know Stanford and the US Dept of Labor are pretty SJW

@Renegade Vile: 15now is a contemporary movement, as are the various immigration right activists. You can look at LGBT activism too. I don't find mocking speech patterns to be mirthful.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 01:59:06 PM by Maiz »

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2016, 02:23:34 PM »
@Renegade Vile: 15now is a contemporary movement, as are the various immigration right activists. You can look at LGBT activism too. I don't find mocking speech patterns to be mirthful.

But one of your examples were active and did something meaningful in the 70s.
As for LGBT activism, that's a type of activism that indeed has a lot of work left in the US. But again, we hardly ever hear about them. I've never said they don't exist, but if the media is overrun by SJWs then they are going to slowly overwhelm the public perception of what social justice movements are and therefore when I say "social justice" I will be primarily referring to them. Or shall I add a laundry list of specifying adjectives to make sure everyone knows who I'm talking about and doesn't misconstrue... And makes assumptions about me?

As for mocking speech patterns: it's alright if you don't find it mirthful, but tell me again how that means you can just claim I think there are no other races than black and white?

Online Lilias

  • La Que Sabe ~ MelinoŽ ~ Khaleesi Vosi ~ The Unforgiving
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Location: Wildling Country
  • Gender: Female
  • Life is too short to just breeze on by.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2016, 02:33:28 PM »
Go look up some papers on the subject and tell me again that the gap is unexplained. Many of the high paying jobs (often due to things like hazard pay) or because of pregnancy, time off taken, and so, women tend to get jobs that earn less, or miss the boat on promotion. But that isn't because they're women, oftentimes that is because they make the very conscious choice to choose something else over that promotion. There is nothing wrong about that, so long as that choice is not forced on them, and last time I checked in the West, it isn't.

See 'Feminization of Work'.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2016, 02:41:57 PM »
See 'Feminization of Work'.

Yes, I know about this. It seems to support the claims of an earnings gap over a wage gap.

Online Lilias

  • La Que Sabe ~ MelinoŽ ~ Khaleesi Vosi ~ The Unforgiving
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Location: Wildling Country
  • Gender: Female
  • Life is too short to just breeze on by.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2016, 02:46:36 PM »
Yes, I know about this. It seems to support the claims of an earnings gap over a wage gap.

Then I guess men have no reason to grumble that, since them pesky females started taking over [insert previously male-dominated profession], wages have stagnated. :-) Good to know.