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Author Topic: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?  (Read 5928 times)

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Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #100 on: May 26, 2016, 02:51:46 AM »
Personally, I hate the term SJW, it's become synonymous with "oppressive" in my mind. If someone stands up for the rights of others, without resorting to hypocrisy or drowning out dissenting voices, then I feel they're more a liberal than an SJW. Just my own personal opinion, though.

I agree. A lot of other people are now using the term SJW in the same way to shut down any conversation. But that's how it always is, extremists ruining it for moderate people with actual points to make on the same material. I've seen it happen quite a few times already, where a liberal-minded person raises valid points of concern from situations where things like racism and sexism may very well be the root cause, only to be called an SJW and chased away by a hate mob. For absolutely no reason.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #101 on: May 26, 2016, 02:54:19 AM »
Personally, I hate the term SJW, it's become synonymous with "oppressive" in my mind. If someone stands up for the rights of others, without resorting to hypocrisy or drowning out dissenting voices, then I feel they're more a liberal than an SJW. Just my own personal opinion, though.

I always saw it as a perjorative from the start, and I think it was intended that way. A means for certain conservative groups to demean/reduce people opposed to their agendas, only to end up creating the demons they were supposedly fighting against by providing a banner for the fringe crazies RV mentions to come out of the woodwork and rally around. Now SJW gets used both as a perjorative and a supposedly 'positive' term in different circles, muddying the waters into uselessness.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 02:55:42 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #102 on: May 26, 2016, 06:47:27 AM »
Never imagined the term was meant to be a positive one.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #103 on: May 26, 2016, 07:04:09 AM »
Never imagined the term was meant to be a positive one.

I don't actually know who used it first, them or their critics. In either case, SJWs call themselves Social Justice Warriors in a positive sense, which is what I believe The Glyphstone is getting at.

Online Doomsday

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #104 on: May 26, 2016, 07:23:17 AM »
There is a reason why a lot of SJWs are often called whiny, severely entitled people who want to blame others for their own bad mistakes or, even stranger, the privileges they enjoy. Like they feel an odd sense of guilt over having more than others, even when this wasn't acquired in any nefarious manner.

Regardless, I agree with what you said, though the argument is more that the idea of social justice (at universities) has become warped by an ideology. Social justice should be dealing in facts or supported theories like every other course, whereas many of these dabble in propaganda and misinformation, on purpose. Whether that's something to be concerned about or not, I'm on the fence about. I get the feeling that a lot of these screaming SJWs reach a certain age where they either decide to grow up, or continue to be mired in that sub-culture. In the latter's case, I believe they aim to become university professors of Social Justice *snorts*.

What stances do these imagined SJW's take that the 'real activists' do not?

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #105 on: May 26, 2016, 07:28:31 AM »
What stances do these imagined SJW's take that the 'real activists' do not?

Imagined?

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Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #106 on: May 26, 2016, 09:00:55 AM »
What stances do these imagined SJW's take that the 'real activists' do not?

Problem is people treat all SJWs as if they are one big organized group, when in reality it is the opposite. They are a lot like Anonymous. Where it is a ton of people with different mentalities, ideals and goals just going under the same monicker.

Also I have one for you of these 'imagined' SJWs.  On Tumblr there was an artist who drew a normally more...heavy character as a thinner woman.

They all proceeded to throw insults and harassment at her for 'Fatshaming' and her support of 'Thin Privilege' until the poor girl nearly killed herself in real life from the nonstop bullying and attacks.

Say what you want but there are people out there, (call them SJWs, call them Extremists I don't really care) who pretend to be all abut the equality and such of others but only use it as a cover or really think they are helping theirh cause by acting like psycopaths and pushing people away, when n reality they just hurt their own cause more.

But you cant act like they don't exist. Just like there are bat shit insane people on the right side, there are also equally batshit insane people on the left.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #107 on: May 26, 2016, 09:08:33 AM »
Problem is people treat all SJWs as if they are one big organized group, when in reality it is the opposite. They are a lot like Anonymous. Where it is a ton of people with different mentalities, ideals and goals just going under the same monicker.

Definitely true, though there are several tenets the larger groups and concentrations follow; things like white privilege or, as you'll mention later, fatshaming (or any -shaming, reall). But you are absolutely correct in defining them not as one group with one idea, but just a disjoint mess of frustrated people that will infight at the drop of a hat.

Also I have one for you of these 'imagined' SJWs.  On Tumblr there was an artist who drew a normally more...heavy character as a thinner woman.

They all proceeded to throw insults and harassment at her for 'Fatshaming' and her support of 'Thin Privilege' until the poor girl nearly killed herself in real life from the nonstop bullying and attacks.

I heard about that; horrible.

Say what you want but there are people out there, (call them SJWs, call them Extremists I don't really care) who pretend to be all abut the equality and such of others but only use it as a cover or really think they are helping theirh cause by acting like psycopaths and pushing people away, when n reality they just hurt their own cause more.

And there are also a number of them that just seem to want to blame the world for all of their own ills, because that seems the easier way to go about it to them. I am entirely certain some of these should be seeing a counselor about their frustrations.

But you cant act like they don't exist. Just like there are bat shit insane people on the right side, there are also equally batshit insane people on the left.

I don't think that's what he was getting at with that question, though I can't speak for someone else.
As for batshit insane people, they run the whole gamut, that's for sure.

Offline Lilias

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #108 on: May 26, 2016, 10:35:20 AM »
I don't actually know who used it first, them or their critics.

Google is your friend.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #109 on: May 26, 2016, 12:39:18 PM »
I think Doomsday was trying to ask where is the line between SJW and the real activists as you see them.  Almost everyone would attempt to put their opponents in the camp of whining and arguing without factual basis. 

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #110 on: May 26, 2016, 04:24:05 PM »
I think Doomsday was trying to ask where is the line between SJW and the real activists as you see them.  Almost everyone would attempt to put their opponents in the camp of whining and arguing without factual basis.

Very true, hence why I mentioned that the moniker has been used to shut down arguments almost as often as SJWs use theirs for the same reason.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #111 on: May 26, 2016, 04:32:35 PM »
So how do you distinguish between a SJW and someone trying to accomplish social change?

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #112 on: May 26, 2016, 05:09:42 PM »
So how do you distinguish between a SJW and someone trying to accomplish social change?

I already said so in an earlier response? I very clearly said so.

EDIT: Well, I said how to recognize the obvious SJWs; people are people, it isn't so easy to label them.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #113 on: May 26, 2016, 05:14:53 PM »
You spoke about whiny and self-entitlement.  Is that what you are referring to?

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #114 on: May 26, 2016, 06:27:06 PM »
You spoke about whiny and self-entitlement.  Is that what you are referring to?

Among other things, yes.

Online Doomsday

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #115 on: May 26, 2016, 06:48:46 PM »
I already said so in an earlier response? I very clearly said so.

EDIT: Well, I said how to recognize the obvious SJWs; people are people, it isn't so easy to label them.

Could you possibly reiterate? Was it where you mentioned white supremacy and fat-shaming? I just wanna be sure, I have ADD and I have a difficult time reading through this whole thread in case it was mentioned on previous pages.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #116 on: May 26, 2016, 07:16:43 PM »
Easy, the latter doesn't scream and shout from the top of their lungs, hugs and cries together when they hit opposition, tolerates discussion and debate, does not make blanket statements about people, aren't blatantly racists/sexist/whatever themselves, etc. SJWs are essentially everything they fight, but just turned against whatever ethnicity or sexuality is perceived as being 'the oppressor' in a given location. There are exceptions to this, where SJWs do not behave like this, but actually still are of that kind, but these are the general patterns of behavior. Especially the intolerance for any kind of discussion or debate which results in them shutting it down with as many buzzwords as they can conceive of, is a big trademark. Just think of anything you'd imagine a right-wing, religious fundamentalist fanatic saying or doing, but give it a left-leaning, progressive spin, and you've got SJWs. People genuinely fighting for social justice, at least the ones I've read about in articles or watched online, are generally calm, rational people who take challenges on headfirst, be they online or in real life.
Note that I did describe the people who fly the SJW flag high. You've got admittedly harder to distinguish people who follow the same ideology, but aren't really into the whole activism part of it.

This is a quote of it, it's at the end of the previous page.

Online Doomsday

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #117 on: May 26, 2016, 08:40:40 PM »
Thanks for quoting that forward. I don't think I'm going to engage any further as all of these criteria seem extremely vague and subjective. So let's agree to disagree before we waste dissertations on each other.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #118 on: May 27, 2016, 02:07:45 AM »
Thanks for quoting that forward. I don't think I'm going to engage any further as all of these criteria seem extremely vague and subjective. So let's agree to disagree before we waste dissertations on each other.

Of course they're subjective, they're an opinion? Have you ever watched a self-professed SJW video or read an article by one? I'm not describing people that are declared SJW by others, I'm describing people who label themselves SJW. As for vague. I could write in more detail, but wouldn't it be better to check out these things as well as the contents of several university courses to see what it's like? Besides, I don't really know what is vague about them being whiny, self-entitled, prone to harassment and also extremely sensitive to criticism to the point of trying to live in an echo chamber. Rather clear-cut and direct accusations I think, no?

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #119 on: May 27, 2016, 03:05:36 AM »
You just described half the internet if not the majority.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2016, 03:16:26 AM »
You just described half the internet if not the majority.

*sighs* Apply those adjectives to Social Justice agenda please; do I really have to spell these things out in meticulous detail?
Whiny about institutionalized racism, self-entitled about things being owed to them based on race, gender, sexuality and nothing else, prone to harassment because of having their views challenged, etc.
Of course these traits can be applied to other people, just like any other list of traits associated with a given group of people can be expanded to include a lot of other ones. These are some ways you can tell them apart. For starters, I was asked to compare social justice activists with social justice warrior activists, so there's already a question on which of the two they are, which excludes "the majority" of the Internet. I gave some of the key differences between the two, and the fact that some of these differences can be applied to general, petulant children online says something about your average, hardcore SJW. I wasn't aware I was supposed to make a laundry list of every single trait ever associated with one.
Dear lord.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #121 on: May 27, 2016, 03:19:24 AM »
You can lose the attitude.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2016, 03:22:05 AM »
Well then contribute by expanding what I said, challenging it or something.
But I do apologize if that was condescending, but it really isn't that hard to tell the two apart, one can tolerate a conversation, the other cannot.

Offline Scribbles

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #123 on: May 27, 2016, 03:24:09 AM »
Please take whatever I say with a pinch of salt but words such as "whiny" or "self-entitled" are far more emotive than insightful. When it comes to ideals there are people of all kinds, on both sides, from the highly intelligent and charismatic, to the... less so (like me! ^^). Also, it's difficult to label an SJW as self-entitled when you consider that most, depending on their cause, are fighting for others.

Doomsday, you can't blame Renegade Vile for not defining his point clearly when you've been just as vague, going so far as to establish that he is imagining it all from the get go without explaining why. I'm not certain if this will help since I'm iffy on the term myself but, as far as I can tell, SJW's meaning (at least within the context of this thread) refers to those who are overly aggressive in the pursuit of seemingly liberal ideals, to the point of being malicious or even hypocritical. Lustful Bride gave a nice example.

Offline Renegade VileTopic starter

Re: SJW Courses and Potential Damage?
« Reply #124 on: May 27, 2016, 03:27:44 AM »
Please take whatever I say with a pinch of salt but words such as "whiny" or "self-entitled" are far more emotive than insightful. When it comes to ideals there are people of all kinds, on both sides, from the highly intelligent and charismatic, to the... less so (like me! ^^). Also, it's difficult to label an SJW as self-entitled when you consider that most, depending on their cause, are fighting for others.

They are self-entitled because their reasons for fighting for the cause of others are generally selfish in nature, which is why they do not tolerate discussion because their ideology tends to unravel under pressure. That's the other key difference: ideology. Social justice activists do not have an ideology. They do not see the world through the social justice lens and other buzzwords like that. They just see a problem of inequality, and they tackle it directly; usually through discussion and legal pursuits. SJWs tend to gang up on people, get them in trouble with employers, harass them, etc. Of course they're not the only group that does it, but it's still a defining trait and tactic of theirs.
Whiny is more emotive than insightful, true, but it's still a trait and it can be seen among their spokespersons quite often.

Doomsday, you can't blame Renegade Vile for not defining his point clearly when you've been just as vague, going so far as to establish that he is imagining it all from the get go without explaining why. I'm not certain if this will help since I'm iffy on the term myself but, as far as I can tell, SJW's meaning (at least within the context of this thread) refers to those who are overly aggressive in the pursuit of seemingly liberal ideals, to the point of being malicious or even hypocritical. Lustful Bride gave a nice example.

I'd say that's a fair start to defining what the average SJW is, as well as a means of separating the two.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 03:29:02 AM by Renegade Vile »