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Author Topic: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check  (Read 1136 times)

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Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2016, 09:14:06 AM »
Perhaps part of their code (hnahag) is the answer; hnahag dictates to hunt to feed yourself and not leave nothing wasted in process from the kill (fur, bones, meat, blood etc). Same could applied to science and knowlegde in their perspective; captured humans are catched prey but instead killing them they study and learn from them (and thus use knowlegde gained against us naturally in the war). So guarding a valuable prey which can feed entire tribe (or save nation this case) is hnahag.

Sort I can imagine a Mrina who raises sheep (or their eguivalent of one) who sees then predator to try take away/kill the sheep (sheep which Mrinan uses to feed his/her family from wool it collects), rushing to kill predator and guarding the sheep is hnahag. Or is there agriculture at all amongst Mrinan? Meaning raising animals for milk/wool? Or is it more raising animals and butchered later on (like pigs). I think if we continue speak of the farmer, he likely weeds out any sick/old animals out (either killing for meat or incase predator attack let predator enjoy it's catch but issue comes if the predator goes after young/healthy sheep).

Or there could be that hnahag dictates 'those who submit to you, you must hurt but also hold responsible for their life'. As submited being is entirely on your mercy and thus wastefully them getting them killed (or sick and dead) is hnahagrrr act.

Anycase pokes the thread for interest, possibly as human prisoner (a soldier) who surrendered.

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2016, 05:04:04 PM »
WOOHOO, A male player!

Hi Zaer. I'll answer your points in a moment. One thing I will point out is that the aliens are called Mrinka, which is Mrinari for "People". All people everywhere call themselves "People"!

If there was value to keeping the prisoners other than simply preventing them going back to fight on then there is purpose to guarding them and so would not be hnahagrrr (with as many r's and g's as required). The simple solution would be to simply kill the prisoners (or not allow them to surrender) as I'm sure the Mrinka have know knowledge of Geneva or what came out of it.

Ah typos, they can totally change the meaning of a sentence. You meant "have no knowledge", yes?

You are correct, they have no way whatever of knowing anything of the Geneva Convention, and anyway, does the geneva convention even apply to extra-terrestrial beings? *shrug*

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So the question becomes: why would this race keep and feed a group of inferior being?

The primary guiding principal of hnahag us not to kill except at need and not to waste anything. Killing a creature that poses no threat is hnahagrrr. The dilemma is not why the prisoners are kept alive, but how to ensure they continue to pose no threat when they seem intent on returning to threat status?

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We must know or have something they want.

Not necessarily. Remember, the prisoners were not deliberately captured. The Mrinka dod not set out to catch some humans to study - well, not in this case anyway. Quite the reverse, the humans laud down their weapons and asked to be captured rather than die honourably! So, no, the humans in this case don't have anything the Mrinka want

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knowledge - perhaps about the invasion. But the grunts (like my character would be) simply do as they're told and have no view of the overall plan
Something we have - maybe immunity against a virus, something that is radically different - like our mating habits.

What about curiosity - we are so different in how we behave that the Mrinka have chosen to study us, to determine how we react under specific conditions. This would give them valuable insight into how they should fight us.

two of those are valid points. Immunity is irrelevant. Bacteria and viruses will not cross-infect. At least, not yet. Give it a few centuries for microbiological evolution to work it's thing and maybe... But not yet...

However, as you point out, the troops on the ground will actually no less about their side's movements than the enemy's intelligence people. As for studying, that is actually a possible solution to the dilemma: All the guards are scientists....

Perhaps part of their code (hnahag) is the answer; hnahag dictates to hunt to feed yourself and not leave nothing wasted in process from the kill (fur, bones, meat, blood etc). Same could applied to science and knowlegde in their perspective; captured humans are catched prey but instead killing them they study and learn from them (and thus use knowlegde gained against us naturally in the war). So guarding a valuable prey which can feed entire tribe (or save nation this case) is hnahag.

This is actually quite close, but you are answering Catherine, and not me!

As I pointed out, the dilemma is not whether the captives should be kept alive and looked after, but what to do with them when they clearly have no intention of keeping their word and remaining captives.

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Sort I can imagine a Mrina who raises sheep (or their eguivalent of one) who sees then predator to try take away/kill the sheep (sheep which Mrinan uses to feed his/her family from wool it collects), rushing to kill predator and guarding the sheep is hnahag. Or is there agriculture at all amongst Mrinan? Meaning raising animals for milk/wool? Or is it more raising animals and butchered later on (like pigs). I think if we continue speak of the farmer, he likely weeds out any sick/old animals out (either killing for meat or incase predator attack let predator enjoy it's catch but issue comes if the predator goes after young/healthy sheep).

The closest Kraahhi animal to a sheep is the fvirr. Just as the closest to a cow is the Yllala. Mrinka society is as technologically advanced as Human society. Industry, agriculture, commerce. And you are correct in the assumption that selective breeding takes place in Mrinka agriculture - in fact there is a measure of genetic engineering.

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Or there could be that hnahag dictates 'those who submit to you, you must hurt but also hold responsible for their life'. As submited being is entirely on your mercy and thus wastefully them getting them killed (or sick and dead) is hnahagrrr act.

Absolutely correct. This is stated quite explicitly in the Wiki. It is hnahagrrr to kill unless you need to. Killing for food or in self defence is hnahag.

However, this does not resolve the dilemma.

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Anycase pokes the thread for interest, possibly as human prisoner (a soldier) who surrendered.

Welcome

I'd love a few more male players. I'd also like a few brave (or foolish) souls to be willing to play Mrinka!



Okay, to re-state:

The code of hnahag dictates that it is wrong to kill for any reason other than self defence or food, and that all parts of a prey animal that can be used must be used, and that the animal's sacrifice must be honoured.

Once an animal is domesticated, it rarely turns vicious again - obviously Earth dogs are an exception to this rule, but this is almost always because of treatment by humans and in those rare occasions when it is not, it is because the animal is sick. A herd of domestic cattle will not suddenly start charging and goring people at random - not without severe provocation anyway!

This is the Mrinka's experience with other subjugated species: Once subjugated, they remain so, content to learn the ways of Hnahag. It is rare for some members of a species to submit to Mrinka rule, while others keep on fighting. And it is unheard of for a subject species to rebel, either in whole or in part.

But the human's code dictates that to surrender is only a temporary thing and at the first opportunity it should be abrogated.

Worth pointing out here, something mentioned in the US Army code of conduct mentioned previously: "I will accept [no] parole".

During the Napoleonic wars, and in all previous wars, if an enemy officer was captured, he was offered parole. That is, his weapons would be returned to him and he would be allowed to remain unbound and unguarded, once he had given his word that he would make no attempt to escape. Because in those days a gentleman's word was his bond, paroled enemy officers were allowed considerable freedom. Of course if they were rescued that was another matter.

This concept of parole would be almost familiar to the Mrinka. Released on good behaviour. The subject race, once they surrendered en mass would be watched and taught, but would not be actively guarded. So, when the first human prisoners of war fail to return and start committing acts of sabotage (another less than familiar concept to the Mrinka), the Mrinka are at first confused, thenangry, and finally saddened.

So they construct camps to keep the captives in. But how do the Mrinka High Command get other Mrinka to guard these captives that clearly need to be guarded? Scientific study? Nope. That would be a lot easier if they were free and behaving themselves. Say that it ios protecting the Mrinka from a dangerous animal? But if the animal is dangerous, why keep it? Dangerous animals are all over the place, and are usually kept away from population centres, but they are allowed to roam free and hunt naturally. They are only considered dangerous if they come too close to Mrinka dwellings. These aliens claim not to be dangerous, they tell us they are subjugated, and yet if we leave them, they deliberately try and become dangerous.

....

Yeah..... So, I am going to give it until Saturday to see if anyone can come up with the answer...

Offline BeckyAnnn

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2016, 05:16:40 PM »
What was the question again?  :P

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2016, 12:38:38 AM »
What was the question again?  :P

The question is that why Mrinka high command allows keep and guard human captives which turn hostile once you turn your back on them (or drop guard).

I think scientific study is closest best answer; that all guards are scientists (if males present they are assigned by military not guard humans but guard scientists from harm and kill any humans on 'rampage' mode). Humans do not cooperate but the scientists still try figure out things, as they cannot ignore potential of knowlegde learned just by watching humans and running medical exams and try form peaceful contact with them (as Mrinka are advanced as humans there is no doubt sociologists and psychiatrists trying to communicate with humans to try make them talk and thus help better understand human species).

Mrinka cannot understand humans and probably their largest losses (and also present dilemma) is because of it. They need find answers and learn how to subjugate humans and keep them subjugated by any means neccesary. In darker events (perhaps other scientist camps) they may even seek surgical solution (perform brain surgery to reduce human aggression). Also amongst scientists there could be Mrinka who are simply curious and may even harbor (secretly) thought that Mrinka and Humans could co-excist without either side being subjugated (humans so far are first species advanced as theirs and thus are not dumb/weak despite their own religious code dictates so).

Also lastly one another idea is that there can be Mrinka who wished negotiations would had succeed (and avoided a bloody war) but negotiations failed and they believe reason was by lack of understanding on human race (possibly missunderstanding from both sides), so option to end the war with much better negotiations can be idea what some Mrinkans could hope for.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 01:41:45 AM by Zaer Darkwail »

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2016, 02:07:06 AM »
No! That is NOT the question!

The question is:

How do you get Mrinka troops who are concerned about their own Hnahag to do the Hnahagrrr job of guarding the prisoners?

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2016, 02:49:04 AM »
Ah, my bad.

Anyways I think best answer is that those guarding the prisoners are scientists who are less strictly caring/interested about their Hnahag, as I imagine the intensity how much Mrinka cares about Hnahag varies (they all care for it but some are less fanatic about it and to be Mrinka scientist you likely need have more tolerance for Hnahagrrr tasks overall to be succesful at scientific field). Also scientists know for fact there are creatures stronger than Mrinka but they had been so far either dumber than Mrinka or haven't been technologically advanced as Mrinka. In pure (when discount Hnahag) academic/scientific stand point both Mrinka and Humans have been equally successful in evolution stand point; evolved into high tech advanced space travel cultures.

Military and general public may have dilemma and overall stronger ties to Hnahag, while scientists are bit more flexible about their feelings on Hnahag and thus they volunteered to guard and monitor the human captives while most rest Mrinka have no desires to do such task.

Alternatively some of the guards assigned to humans are under punishment (so performing lesser Hnahagrrr task removes greater Hnahagrrr performed in past and thus turns Hnahagrrr task into a Hnahag earning task) or outright criminals (assuming there are criminals amongst Mrinka) who work as guards as sort punishment for them.

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2016, 03:32:04 AM »
Give that elf a gold star!

While you are correct about the scientists being less concerned with hnahag than most, personally I don't see scientists as guards... That's not to say we can't have some Mrinka scientists poking at the prisoners' orifices.... (Should anyone desire such) but they will not be the ones with the guns.

But here we have the purrrrrfect solution: The guards have been convicted of a hnahagrrr act of some sort. Theft, wastefulness, in the case of an officer possibly giving a hnahagrrr order, even agrrrnahagrrr - the rather complex Mrinka word that would most closely translate as "murder" (literally, kill without hnahag, and yes I missed the h out deliberately).

And so they are forced to do tasks that are considered hnahagrrr by others, in the hope of earning a chance to restore their own hnahag.

It is important to remember that this is an alien species, they don't think the way humans do! Which is what started the war in the first place!

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2016, 03:56:19 AM »
Give that elf a gold star!

*bows*

Glad to be in service :). I think though that in guard staff there must be a officer who's job is watch over the Mrinka criminals (or be observer and what to make sure they behave in their task and such). Considering rules of hnahag the criminal Mrinka guards are not likely physically restricted (no collars and what not) as they have submitted themselves to the officer and thus obey the officer while performing a task what no other Mrinka does not want to do.

As already mentioned Mrinka's do not have concept for prisoner (someone who has subdued but can be hostile if turned back on), so Mrinka criminals are serving their punishment willingly to restore their hnahag (also assume there is no build prisons). At least this sort image I get what I read about hnahag but if I am wrong feel free correct me :P.

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2016, 04:34:41 AM »
You are quite correct. There is no concept of "crime" as such. the nearest human equivalent would be "sin", to do something which goes against one's beliefs. Hmmmm. I need to create a word for that....  Narrhagrrr. A composite word that formed centuries ago from "Narr" - to act, and Hnagagrrr. Meaning to commit an act that is Hnagagrrr, nearest English translation is "to sin" Can be a verb, noun or adjective.

So the Mrinka gauards are all Narrhagrru - "sinners" The officer too, but an officer would be much more inclined to restore their hnahag. Anyway, that's my GM character, so she will behave correctly regardless!

Are you sure you don't want to be a Mrinka guard? I usually allow two characters per player...

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2016, 05:10:50 AM »
Well, if possible I could play a Mrinka male guard, who has got military training and reason why he is Narrhagrru is because of sick level of jealousy towards his lifebonded mate (which had resulted in rare case where lifebond was broken off). The case was that the female in lifebond was 'too close' to his liking to premale in lifebond. He was attracted to the female exclusively, female did not share same desire but 'allowed' the taboo acts for sake of happy lifebond. Male saw premale only as a tool (not as lifebond mate) and was a long term friend of the female. However he struck against the premale (causing permament scar to form) in fit of loss of temper and composure and after hospital trip the both premale and female asked him walk out from lifebond as he is not suited fit for it.

He gets psychological examinations and also counseling as means to help deal with his strong jealousy habit (also possibly counseling to deal with his lack of attraction to premales while strong attraction to female mrinka), but because of the violence crime (than his sexual habbit) he is Narrhagrru serving a sentence.

If above concept does not work for the mrinka guard I can think something else, I am comfortable with male x futa scenes but I thought it as a twist my mrinka char is considered as sexual deviant (or what mrinka term it has) for having unnatural lust to female mrinka's while having no interest to premales.

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2016, 01:50:26 PM »
I like the concept. If I can just get a few more people expressing an interest, I will put a character sheet up.

Offline LauraEhman

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2016, 03:56:51 PM »
I might be interested if you can promise me this game would last longer than the last I joined in :) I would definitely play a prisoner, a rebellious one and would insist on having mostly female guards around  :P

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2016, 04:46:25 PM »
I cannot promise anything, I'm afraid. I am at the mercy of you, the players.

Offline Dashenka

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2016, 03:01:10 AM »
So with the new guard thing in place, what would be likely to happen to prisoners?

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2016, 03:27:02 AM »
Given that so far we only have one guard, not much!

*eyeroll*

Offline Dashenka

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2016, 03:30:00 AM »
Hehe okay...

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2016, 03:43:20 AM »
I am seriously loathed to put more effort and creativity into this unless I can get a few more players interested.

Putting together a character sheet is going to take more than I want to give right now.

So, if you can think of anyone whom might be interested, point them this way...


Offline Dashenka

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2016, 03:45:00 AM »
I understand babe :)

I'll see if I can link some people here.

Offline BeckyAnnn

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2016, 12:28:54 PM »
Hey, guys.  Just checking in. 

Chrystal, sorry I haven't been much help.  Just have things going on. :(

Offline ChrystalTopic starter

Re: Prisoners Of War - A Sci-fi extreme game. Interest check
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2016, 12:42:46 PM »
No worries. I'll mostly need you if/when we get to character creation...