In your honest opinion, who do you think has the best chance of becoming POTUS?

[persephone325]

I voted for the first time today. When I left the polling place, I immediately couldn't remember who I voted for and began to panic because I thought I voted for the wrong party.

I voted for Jill Stein, which I know won't matter much because A) she's a third party candidate and they don't get much media coverage (so what's the goddamn point of having third party candidates if they never win? My mom said it's almost like throwing a vote away. But my conscious is clear because it's a vote that Trump and Clinton won't get.) and B) the presidency is determined by the electoral college, and not the popular vote. So I really don't understand the point of having a popular vote if our votes as American citizens don't mean jack shit.

We talked about this today in my CJ class. States like California, Texas, and Florida have ridiculously high electoral votes. Granted they're larger states. But I'm from Delaware, and we're such a small state. We only have three. THREE!! Rhode Island? They're smaller than us, and they have FOUR. This system is broken and useless now. Back in the day? Yeah, it was needed. But we don't need it now. I don't want a representative's vote to speak for me. I want my own vote to speak for me.

[Valerian]

I voted for the first time today. When I left the polling place, I immediately couldn't remember who I voted for and began to panic because I thought I voted for the wrong party.

I voted for Jill Stein, which I know won't matter much because A) she's a third party candidate and they don't get much media coverage (so what's the goddamn point of having third party candidates if they never win? My mom said it's almost like throwing a vote away. But my conscious is clear because it's a vote that Trump and Clinton won't get.) and B) the presidency is determined by the electoral college, and not the popular vote. So I really don't understand the point of having a popular vote if our votes as American citizens don't mean jack shit.

We talked about this today in my CJ class. States like California, Texas, and Florida have ridiculously high electoral votes. Granted they're larger states. But I'm from Delaware, and we're such a small state. We only have three. THREE!! Rhode Island? They're smaller than us, and they have FOUR. This system is broken and useless now. Back in the day? Yeah, it was needed. But we don't need it now. I don't want a representative's vote to speak for me. I want my own vote to speak for me.

Here's an article detailing some reasons why popular votes aren't the best way to handle a national election.  For one thing, it would make a recount in case of a close election nightmarish -- 130+ million votes would have to be rechecked, under 51 different sets of rules and regulations for how recounts must be conducted.  I think a lot of people agree that an overhaul of the electoral college would be a good thing, but going to a direct popular vote doesn't seem to be the answer.

And as long as people continue to vote for third party candidates only during national elections, then it's true that they won't get anywhere.  Any political party has to start with local and state elections to gain a foothold before anything national is possible.  But in most cases, people who vote third party completely forget that that third party even exists when there isn't a presidential election going.  Quite a few people don't even bother turning out for elections where only state and local races are involved, which I find terribly depressing.  People don't think about how much more the local elections can influence their lives.  :/

[Tamhansen]

See, what I don't get is, if they elected a president by popular vote, which in all honesty is the fairest way to go (it would make every single vote carry the same exact weight) would they need to have 51 different recount systems? Surely, if an overhaul like that were done, they could simply use a unified system? Also, at that stage it would be a lot easier to allow people in Puerto Rico and other territories to vote as well.

[Beguile's Mistress]

The number of electoral votes is based on the number of seats in Congress for each state.  Rhode Island has a larger population than Delaware.

Also, while Puerto Ricans are not permitted to vote in the Presidential election any Puerto Rican citizen moving to the US (legally) is permitted to register to vote in the states.  An influx of Puerto Ricans were registered for this election and are voting, supposedly for Hillary.

[Lustful Bride]

*resisting the urge to say that PR should just become a state*

Still if what you say is true Beguile, then I guess what Zaius said about poetic justice might end up coming true.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Before the FBI stuck their oar in the water over new emails speculation was strong after early voting that the state could go for Clinton.  Then things got tighter.

[ReijiTabibito]

But then our nice even number of 50 would be ruined!  (Well, unless we got rid of the Carolinas or the Dakotas.  Do we really need two?) 

It might be a case of getting bit in the ass for 30 years of bad treatment, too.  Puerto Ricans are moving off the island and coming to the mainland because of the disastrous economic circumstances there - circumstances which were largely done in order to attract big business to the island.  Check out Last Week Tonight's current take on the state of things.

[persephone325]

Fair point, Val. I admit, I'm not extremely knowledgeable when it comes to politics and elections. It just seems like a more confusing system and allows for more mistakes.

If the presidency is determined by the electoral college, then why even let the American populace have a say? I don't get it.

[ReijiTabibito]

Because if the populace didn't have a say, if the election was decided solely by the electoral college, then we technically wouldn't have a democratic form of government, we would have...maybe someone more in the know can elaborate, but I think it would technically be an oligarchy.

It is worth pointing out that there could be plenty of other ways to structure voting on the federal level that wouldn't involve the electoral college.  US Senators, for example, used to be chosen by the legislative bodies of a given state, rather than by direct vote.  I would actually espouse, if we changed the system, that practice, because it would get people paying attention to state-level politics again, which is something that has gone sorely untended over my lifetime.

[Oniya]

In theory, our say is in electing the members of the Electoral College.  The representatives are supposed to look at the voting results from their district and cast their vote accordingly.  The 'Winner Takes All' aspect complicates this, unfortunately.  Perhaps a good intermediate step would be to move from that to an actual representative system, where all states tally their electoral votes individually (like Maine and Nebraska as was mentioned elsewhere.)

[WindFish]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-sues-nevada-county-over-poll-hours-extension-230944?lo=ap_a1

A judge has tossed out that lawsuit Trump filed about early voting in Nevada.

Hopefully that's the first of many losses he experiences tonight.

[Trigon]

Oh don't worry, I'm sure there's an avalanche of losses awaiting him. Here's a second loss for him tonight: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-updates-on-the-2016-election-voting-and-race-results/donald-trump-was-booed-before-he-voted-for-donald-trump/

Trump was booed at his own polling station before casting a vote for himself. Let's see how much he can rack up before he  ultimately loses the presidency (and after).


Seriously folks, I've never wanted someone to lose this badly before in my entire life...

[TheGlyphstone]

Tension breaker time.

In case anyone missed it, ERB did a Trump vs. Hillary Rap Battle last week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbryz0mxuMY

[gaggedLouise]

With 30% of Florida votes counted, Clinton has a 50.000 votes lead there. 

Update: Oh, and fifteen minutes later, Trump is in the lead in the sunshine state. Gonna go back and forth between the two, no doubt.

[Lustful Bride]

With 30% of Florida votes counted, Clinton has a 50.000 votes lead there. 

Update: Oh, and fifteen minutes later, Trump is in the lead in the sunshine state. Gonna go back and forth between the two, no doubt.

Wish I hadn't seen this.... 0_0

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

*hears someone outside my home* I wonder who that could be?

Warning: Bugs and scary imagery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY-QBvy3lR8

Hmm.. better call the exterminator.

[Beguile's Mistress]

State counts are measured county by county as the polls close.

Florida has two time zones.  Polls in the panhandle will stay open an hour longer.

Pennsylvania polling places, a battleground state, will close at 8:00 pm.

[WindFish]

Also keep in mind that rural areas are typically counted first, so we can't project too much right now until we get more of the suburban and city votes in.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Also, keep an eye on states like Pennsylvania where people in line when the polls close will still be allowed to vote and final numbers from those polls will not be counted until the last vote is cast.

[gaggedLouise]

Hillary is leading by 1% in NC and by 2-3% in FLA. 

[Orval Wintermute]

But then our nice even number of 50 would be ruined!  (Well, unless we got rid of the Carolinas or the Dakotas.  Do we really need two?) 

Give DC statehood and you'd have a nice even 52.

Trump up in Florida by 50,000 votes. So it's going to be close.

Make that 95,000 votes.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Florida:  Trump is ahead in small counties while Hillary is ahead in larger counties with many urban centers still to report.  Many of these are predicted to go for Hillary.

[persephone325]

Can the electoral votes be split? Can some of the people vote for Clinton, while others vote for Trump? Or is it a unanimous decision?

[gaggedLouise]

Florida:  Trump is ahead in small counties while Hillary is ahead in larger counties with many urban centers still to report.  Many of these are predicted to go for Hillary.

Broward and Miami-Dade could tilt it over into a narrow win for Hillary, they are big enough. Might even end in a recount, like in 2000.

[TheGlyphstone]

Can the electoral votes be split? Can some of the people vote for Clinton, while others vote for Trump? Or is it a unanimous decision?

Officially know. Electors are supposed to vote in a block for whatever the popular vote of their state votes for. There are such thing as 'faithless electors' that go against the grain, but they are very very rare and never influential.

[Orval Wintermute]

Most states it's winner takes all, win by 1 vote in California you get all 55 electoral college votes. Maine and Nebraska are exceptions and split the vote based on Congressional districts.