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Author Topic: In your honest opinion, who do you think has the best chance of becoming POTUS?  (Read 27179 times)

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Offline gaggedLouise

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He has a lot of trouble with numbers.  Maybe that's why so many of his businesses failed and he screwed so many vendors.

Sounds like a great quality in a commander-in-chief.  ::)

Offline SmokingCamels

Ok. Time for my 10 cents because my 2 cents is free.

Hillary will probably win. I'm convinced that the election started with, "How bad do you want to be president? We're gonna put you against a communist and an orange. We're making it as easy as possible." The problem is that the majority of the population doesn't want her, as was evidenced by the support that Bernie and Trump have. This is going to be a case where the president wins with a majority vote, but not the majority overall. Like 39% or something. They will be highly unpopular and won't get a second term.

But lets look at some key points.

1. I haven't seen, heard of, or been spoken to by a single Bernie supporter who supported him because of how awesome he was. Every single Bernie supporter heard, free college, free medical coverage, and 15 bucks an hour.

1a. Bernie wasn't goin to get any of those things. Let alone all three.
1b. Earn those things yourself.
1c. The flip side is that I haven't met a single person that has medical, paid their college debts, and makes at least 15 an hour that is a Bernie person.

Next. Clinton... She is everything wrong with the government. Corrupt, to say the least.

Trump is what's wrong with society. Weakness and irresponsibility.

The problems I keep seeing people mention aren't problems but symptoms of a problem nobody wants to address.

Personal Responsibility.

That's right. It isn't racism. It isn't poverty. It isn't religous belief. It isn't anyone's fault but your own. Suck it up. Put your adult pants on. Handle your business.

There are too many people now that want to blame everything on everything else instead of owning it themselves.

But that's a different topic.

The moral is that we will get Clinton unless the Democrats follow their usual trend of being all talk and no action. They still have to actually show up and vote.

I say Palpatine and Vader for 2016. Barring that, Frank Underwood. If I had my way with a real candidate, I'll choose Gary Johnson.

Online Oniya

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Ok. Time for my 10 cents because my 2 cents is free.

Hillary will probably win. I'm convinced that the election started with, "How bad do you want to be president? We're gonna put you against a communist and an orange. We're making it as easy as possible." The problem is that the majority of the population doesn't want her, as was evidenced by the support that Bernie and Trump have. This is going to be a case where the president wins with a majority vote, but not the majority overall. Like 39% or something. They will be highly unpopular and won't get a second term.

But lets look at some key points.

1. I haven't seen, heard of, or been spoken to by a single Bernie supporter who supported him because of how awesome he was. Every single Bernie supporter heard, free college, free medical coverage, and 15 bucks an hour.

1a. Bernie wasn't goin to get any of those things. Let alone all three.
1b. Earn those things yourself.
1c. The flip side is that I haven't met a single person that has medical, paid their college debts, and makes at least 15 an hour that is a Bernie person.

Read some of the entries on this page.  I dare say that the gentleman there has medical, paid his college debts, and makes more than 15 an hour.  He also makes professional arguments as to why all three of those things that you cite need to be accessible to all citizens.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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I'd rather have a normal human being who has spent the last 30 years working in government and bettered the lives of children, women and our veterans, fought to get first responders the medical assistance they needed, worked with both parties in Congress, negotiated treaties with allies and enemies alike and stood in the face of one of the most egregious monsters (Osama bin Laden) and so much more as President of this country than the perverted and sick excuse for human flesh that cheated so many contractors and put hundreds, if not thousands, of people out of jobs. 

If you are perfect judge her on what her enemies have said.  Even the NRA is unable to run an honest ad without lies about her.  None of us are perfect, not by a long shot, but we don't need an unstable hot-head sitting in the Oval Office being the poster boy for ignorant, foul-mouthed attitudes.  Professional athletes are the latest group to come out against Trump for his casual dismissal of his remarks regarding his attitude toward sexually objectifying and assaulting women.

One Tweet Unleashes A Torrent Of Stories Of Sexual Assault

Offline gaggedLouise

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(edit: wrong thread)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 04:48:26 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Lilias

If I had my way with a real candidate, I'll choose Gary Johnson.

The same one who doesn't know what (not where) Aleppo is?

Yeah, definitely keep it real.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Got an email from a friend who is telling Trump supporters that the best way to show their approval of him across the board is to make a will giving him power of attorney and making him executor of their estate and guardian of their minor children.  That way he can loot the estate, assault his female wards and teach his brand of locker room humor to the boys.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Got an email from a friend who is telling Trump supporters that the best way to show their approval of him across the board is to make a will giving him power of attorney and making him executor of their estate and guardian of their minor children.  That way he can loot the estate, assault his female wards and teach his brand of locker room humor to the boys.

Good one, but I can already hear what some of his supportes would reply: "If I pay my taxes to Crooked Hillary and the DC gang they'll pick my wages clean, let in a million Mexicans who can rape our women, take away our guns and brainwash our sons at school so that they don't become real men anymore."  ::)

Offline SmokingCamels

Read some of the entries on this page.  I dare say that the gentleman there has medical, paid his college debts, and makes more than 15 an hour.  He also makes professional arguments as to why all three of those things that you cite need to be accessible to all citizens.

Nope.  Nothing but Clinton fandom.  "I've known the Clintons for 50 years!"  I read 3 paragraphs that only confirmed he was sucking the Clinton Pole, and was a part of the biggest fiasco responsible for America's economic crisis in the first place - selling the Industry to China so Billy could look like he was a good president that balanced the budget. 

The same one who doesn't know what (not where) Aleppo is?

Yeah, definitely keep it real.

I didn't know what Aleppo was.  Or where.  Bet you (like most of us) didn't know or really care, either.  I know what Syria is though.  And where.  I really don't care about Aleppo myself.  At least Gary Johnson was honest and admitted he didn't know.  And then, as soon as he found out it was in Syria, he had a response.  That's a whole lot more respectable than anything that comes out of Trump's and Clintons' mouths.  He made a mistake based off of a lack of information and then owned it.  He didn't resort to name calling and making himself out as a windbag or declaring things rigged.  So yeah.  Definitely keep it real.

Good one, but I can already hear what some of his supportes would reply: "If I pay my taxes to Crooked Hillary and the DC gang they'll pick my wages clean, let in a million Mexicans who can rape our women, take away our guns and brainwash our sons at school so that they don't become real men anymore."  ::)

What's wrong with men being men instead of coddled little boys that require safe spaces and trigger warnings?  What's wrong with telling Muslims no?  What's wrong with not wanting more taxes so the slackers not carrying their weight get even more stuff they don't deserve?  What's wrong with letting you have my guns after they're out of bullets, I'm dead, and nothing but a skeletal corpse out in the desert somewhere? 

This probably shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, but I -WAS- the school bully.  To this day I still have no problem slapping someone upside the head (metaphorically, verbally, or for real) for absurd behavior.  I get that people use satire.  I get that not everyone can see things as cut and dry as I do.  And I DEFINITELY get that there are people out there who really believe their feelings are important.  But when push comes to shove, Trump is a better choice than Hillary.  He can say weird, dumb stuff, but his ability to follow through, even if he's a president, is not so much.  I'm also utterly baffled by the people who hold the fact he's got a foul mouth and says whatever comes to his mind as a reason he's a terrible candidate for president.  Like y'all don't say weird, dumb things?  Like, I literally just quoted some of you for saying things that are a bit off kilter.  Y'all are all participating in a forum whose majority content is sexual fiction.  There are whole categories for non consensual, incest, things far more extreme.  Many of you want to hold Donald Trump to a standard you can't even hold yourself?  Or at the very least don't have the courage to stand up and go, "I'm right there with him on that one."  To me that whole mentality is silly.

The president should represent the people, not be so far out of touch with them.  A president who says his daughter is smoking hot (when she is), that he likes p*ssy, and who thinks making / continuing to make an enemy out of Russia is a bad idea is alright in my book.  That guy is one of the guys.  Granted, I don't actually like him as president.  I just like him better than Clinton.

Offline Lilias

I didn't know what Aleppo was.  Or where.  Bet you (like most of us) didn't know or really care, either.  I know what Syria is though.  And where.  I really don't care about Aleppo myself.  At least Gary Johnson was honest and admitted he didn't know.  And then, as soon as he found out it was in Syria, he had a response.

You're not running for president. For someone aspiring to lead what is arguably the most influential nation in the world, not knowing (or really caring) about the biggest military and humanitarian crisis of the time is simply not an option. Johnson admitted that he was behind with his homework. Honest, but that only gets him a D.

Also, don't bet blind. Some of us come from countries that have been dealing with the fallout since before anyone in the US took it seriously.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Anyone who thinks Trump actually cares about the people he has talked into supporting him needs to think again.  Trump only cares about Trump and he'll turn around and walk away from his supporters with a smile as he dusts them and their needs off his hands just as he has done with all the people he's cheated and stolen from for the past 30 years.  He's a deal maker who loves to think he can sell ice at the South Pole.  Think sleazy used car salesman.

Offline SmokingCamels

@BM - You're absolutely right.  I'm right there with you on that one.  I don't believe for one second Trump is doing anything other than pandering for support.  He's just as bad as Hillary and everyone else in that regard. 

@L - Fair point, I suppose.  I can't win them all.  A D might be below the par, but it's still a passing grade.  Which is more than I feel I can say for Trump and Clinton.

Offline Lilias

What's wrong with men being men instead of coddled little boys that require safe spaces and trigger warnings?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with men being kind, considerate, honest, forthright, respectful and supportive men.

If what you were actually asking was 'What's wrong with men being assholes?', it gets simpler. Nobody likes assholes. Not even other assholes. Because competition.

Quote
What's wrong with telling Muslims no?

Tell them no to what exactly? Tell American citizens that they can't convert to Islam? Bar foreign dignitaries from entering the country? Would that include the Saudi royal family?

Quote
What's wrong with not wanting more taxes so the slackers not carrying their weight get even more stuff they don't deserve?

There's a base line of stuff that everyone deserves by virtue of being an American citizen, slacker or not. Tax breaks for millionaires is not one.

Quote
What's wrong with letting you have my guns after they're out of bullets, I'm dead, and nothing but a skeletal corpse out in the desert somewhere?

I don't want your guns. I do want no one with a record of violent crime, domestic abuse or mental illness to be able to get their hands on one, though.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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There's absolutely nothing wrong with men being kind, considerate, honest, forthright, respectful and supportive men.

If what you were actually asking was 'What's wrong with men being assholes?', it gets simpler. Nobody likes assholes. Not even other assholes. Because competition.

Tell them no to what exactly? Tell American citizens that they can't convert to Islam? Bar foreign dignitaries from entering the country? Would that include the Saudi royal family?

There's a base line of stuff that everyone deserves by virtue of being an American citizen, slacker or not. Tax breaks for millionaires is not one.

I don't want your guns. I do want no one with a record of violent crime, domestic abuse or mental illness to be able to get their hands on one, though.

+1 to each and every one of these. 

As for the last, one of the men who broke into my house had a gun on him.  He has a criminal record and was banned from owning or carrying a gun.  He bought the gun at a gun show where there are no background checks and ID is barely looked at if you look over 21.  He shouldn't have had a gun and he could have killed someone that night.  When he gets out of prison he'll probably go find another gun show and buy another gun.

Offline Warlock

More dishonesty from the Clinton side. It's also quite a huge issue since MSNBC essentially acted as a propaganda outlet for the Clinton campaign by disguising it as an ''interview.'' Which is honestly quite scary and I fully understand the mistrust shown toward media by the US populace. The Podesta emails have been quite a blessing at exposing the corruption.

/sigh




Edit: Fixed link

Edit 2: Backup Link
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 12:44:37 AM by Warlock »

Offline HannibalBarca

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Aw, crap.  I'd read SmokingCamels posts and had planned on a thorough response today after work.  Guess I waited too long.  At least he's no longer here.  Now I have to take out my frustrated lefty-ness on a youtube comment thread XD

Offline CuriousEyes

Relevant?

https://m.

Offline Mithlomwen

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I love John Oliver so much....

Offline ReijiTabibito

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There was a third party candidate who actually didn't suck, but he realized that in order to get his principles heard and actually affect the election, he would have to change his affiliation.

I was with Stein up until the minute she called that third party candidate a "Washington insider," and it became clear her plan to retroactively deal with student debt was something like out of an 8th grader's novel.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Offline ReijiTabibito

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I don't mind about hearing about the conspiracy theories that come from the Trump campaign side, just as long as we all get to hear about the conspiracy theories from the Clinton side, too.

Frankly, even if Trump fails to secure enough votes to become President, he's not the black swan that the Republican Party (I'm not even gonna say right anymore because both candidates are on the right, one just is more than the other) was hoping that he would be.  People are tired of getting screwed by the elites - whether banks or media or political - and want a return to government action that sees the country as a whole benefited, not just the people at the top who can afford the most lobbyists.  Trump may be the worst candidate that the Republicans have fielded in decades, but he's the one who captured the attention of the common person (fuck you, Hillary, my friends are not deplorable people) over all the other candidates.

And to a certain extent, I actually do agree with his idea that the media outlets are supporting Hillary over him.  For one, the stuff on that tape was 11 years ago.  11 years ago, Hillary supported the War in Iraq, stood against gay marriage, and helped No Child Left Behind.  Yet now, 11 years later, she says she changed her mind on all that stuff and we actually believe her.  Now, to be clear, I have no issue with the idea of people changing their minds.  People are allowed to do that, even if the change is not always a positive one.  What I have a problem with is that people insist that 'Hillary has changed' but that 'Trump is still the same' as he was 11 years ago.  If you are going to insist that one candidate has changed (even if it was for totally cynical reasons), then you have to admit the other possibility that the other candidate can have changed, too.  Or at least throw me some fucking evidence that they haven't.

The other major reason?  How many of you guys have heard of the Podesta e-mails and what things were said in them?  And no, don't Google, be honest.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 12:56:58 AM by ReijiTabibito »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Absolutely, there's a technical possibility that Trump could have changed his outlook and isn't seeing himself as the biggest dick in showbusiness the media business and the one that's entitled to it anymore, the way he did ten years ago. That tape isn't exactly proof positive that he would grope anyone and everyone's wife on the butt at once if they met and then laugh it off; ultimately what he does is banter and brag about it, and it's, like, human to brag about one's erotic exploits. But the real trouble is that the tape chimed in with many other misogynous and semi-misogynous statements he had been making on the campaign trail, and with his whole "just believe in me and I'll fix all this sh*t, okay?" attitude. He keeps harping about how he's the only real man in this election - but his handling of the political fallout from the tape has been miles off how a confident and honurable man would have acted.  :D

He can't creditably call it a conspiracy if part of the media are describing him as incompetent and overblown when he clearly is.  ::) They are digging up bad stuff about him because that's relevant and newsworthy of course, it's what any decent news outlet would bring out. It's not as if the big east coast newspapers kept silent about Hillary's e-mail server story, or the Benghazi attack, when those happened. They just didn't tack on all the wild allegations that Trump is spinning onto it.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 01:46:52 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline ReijiTabibito

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But the real trouble is that the tape chimed in with many other misogynous and semi-misogynous statements he had been making on the campaign trail, and with jhis whole "just believe in me and I'll fix all this sh*t, okay?" attitude.

Granted.  Though, I will say that 'believe in me and I'll fix all this' basically describes the campaigns of the last four major elections at LEAST.  It's just a question of how detailed the plans to fix are, and in that respect Trump is pretty light on the details.

He keeps harping about how he's the only real man in this election - but his handling of the political fallout from the tape has been miles off how a confident and honurable man would have acted.  :D

Well, as far as we know, Hillary's not Transgender, right?  (As much as some people would actually like for that to be the reality.)  :P

As for the latter, there is an increasing rarity of honorable men in the public sphere, because to paraphrase The Wire: Honor do cost.  And honor in politics has always been a sketchy thing - we know as far back as things like the early days of the republic, things like Jefferson and Adams, that personal attacks were made by the candidates on each other, and that they weren't always about stances on issues.  It's triply-sketchy now because elected officials see their work as a career rather than as a job, and their decision to prioritize re-election over service to the community has further eroded the base.

He can't creditably call it a conspiracy if part of the media are describing him as incompetent and overblown when he clearly is.  ::) They are digging up bad stuff about him because that's relevant and newsworthy of course, it's what any decent news outlet would bring out. It's not as if the big east coast newspapers kept silent about Hillary's e-mail server story when it happened. They just didn't tack on all the wild allegations that Trump is spinning onto it.

When a vast number of people are all saying the same thing about the same topic, the subject of that topic - if it is capable - can respond in one of two ways.  You can respond by saying that 'you know what?  There might actually be something to this idea, we should at least take it seriously and investigate.'  Or you can deny everything, claim things like they're shills or racist or cucks or what-have-you, and because of that statement or two simply dismiss whatever claims they are making.  More and more people are choosing the second route, choosing (IMO) to believe that they're telling it 'like it is,' and failing to examine themselves for their own faults.

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Offline TheGlyphstone

I don't mind about hearing about the conspiracy theories that come from the Trump campaign side, just as long as we all get to hear about the conspiracy theories from the Clinton side, too.


Are there any? The only thing that comes to mind is the 'theory' that Trump was paid by the Democrats to run against Clinton to guarantee her victory, but that's not really attributable to Clinton supporters so much as it comes from the far larger body of people who hate both. Fair and balanced coverage is all nice, but there actually needs to be material on both sides to cover, and Trump's side is producing all the conspiracy theories right now.