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Author Topic: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?  (Read 4161 times)

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Offline SmokingCamels

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2016, 03:15:31 PM »
Ahh.  Okay.  Upon further examination I now understand why there are differences!  See.  It was good for me to say that I couldn't answer you because that is a situation I cannot relate too.  :D

You're talking Sweden.  I am talking America.  Even Alaska.  You say nothing for miles and literally mean miles.  When I say nothing for miles, I mean 10 or 20.  You're talking about a little vehicle with no engine power.  I am talking...
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
You have 3 cylinders.  I have 8.  You're talking being mixed up on dirt roads with no road signs that go on and on and meet other dirt roads with no road signs.  I'm talking... go straight ahead until that road meets a road with a road sign.  Follow it until you meet another road with a road sign.  You will eventually find one you know or somebody else with a vehicle.  Not to mention somebody with electricity and a phone.  That makes more sense.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2016, 03:19:08 PM »
It's not terribly unrealistic - I mean, the rural roads in Ohio were paved, but the possibility of a deer strike in an area where the road signs are little more than route numbers (that are difficult, if not impossible to find on a paper map) isn't really out of the question.  Think of something approximately the dimensions of a standard street sign, with nothing on it but a cryptic 3-4 digit number.  Replace 'mountains' with forests (sometimes with isolated steep grades), and I have driven through that terrain.  I don't know if a GPS or a cell-phone would have had reception, because at the time, I owned neither.

With luck, you might see an Amish buggy or combine tractor chugging along on the straighter roads.

Offline SmokingCamels

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2016, 03:37:59 PM »
It's not terribly unrealistic - I mean, the rural roads in Ohio were paved, but the possibility of a deer strike in an area where the road signs are little more than route numbers (that are difficult, if not impossible to find on a paper map) isn't really out of the question.  Think of something approximately the dimensions of a standard street sign, with nothing on it but a cryptic 3-4 digit number.  Replace 'mountains' with forests (sometimes with isolated steep grades), and I have driven through that terrain.  I don't know if a GPS or a cell-phone would have had reception, because at the time, I owned neither.

With luck, you might see an Amish buggy or combine tractor chugging along on the straighter roads.

My pops runs 6 counties in PA in a utility truck for the state.  He's on the border of PA and NY.  It's a mix up, but once you're used to it, it's no problem at all.  The deer isn't out of the question at all.  I'd just hit it.  My truck will survive.  The deer won't.  But, to be fair, I drive an old beat up 96 Ford F-150 that's four wheel drive and has a gas chugging v8 in it instead of say, a plastic and fiberglass Nissan Altima or Kia Optima, so I get it.  A far more likely and plausible scenario for me would be running out of gas out in the boondocks at 11:00 at night after all the local shops and stations in the 1 horse towns have already closed down at 9 or 10. 

BUT, because I know that, I'd have either a spare gas can in the back, or I'd have filled up before the places closed.  If you're going to try and tell me my gas gauge on the truck doesn't work (which is also acceptably inconvenient) then I'd also tell you that I always fill up at the 200 mile mark, and when I get to 120 I start paying attention, and by 150, I am looking for a place to fill up.  This way I am never on an empty tank anywhere and when I choose to fill up I still have between a 3rd and 1/4 tank.  :D

So, in the event it's dark, and I am in the boondocks of Ohio where I have never been before, out of gas, and on the side of the road somewhere...  I'm putting on the hazard lights, pulling the key from the ignition, sliding over to the passenger's seat, and using my jacket as a pillow.  Gonna try and get some sleep.  Either a passerby will see me, a state trooper will, or somebody will stop.  If that doesn't work, by morning it's light and I can see where I am going and what's up.  If I have to foot it, I will.  Assuming I do, I am picking one direction... the one towards the closest town / gas station, and I'm going along it until I get to an intersection that has road signs.  A traffic light or four way stop sign is what I am looking for.  From there, I sit tight and wait.  I will likely press the button on a sign for the state troopers if necessary / I spot them first.  But if I come to an intersection with a light, I'm pretty sure my phone will have a signal.  At that point I send my general SOS text message to the people who are expecting me at my destination.  If they aren't there or there is no answer, again the State Police / Game Warden.  One of them will be by sooner or later if enough distress calls are made.

Barring all of that, somebody has got to come upon that intersection soon enough... And that's all assuming I am still not close enough to a gas station.  Sure, it's an inconvenient adventure that will irritate me to irrational vulgarities spewing from my mouth in complete sentences, but it isn't an unmanageable situation by any means. 

Online Thorne

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2016, 03:43:44 PM »
Hrrrm. Well now. The problem with hitting a deer at speed, even in a fairly heavy vehicle isn't the deer totaling the car or doing damage; it's the chance the animal will bounce over the hood and come through the windshield, or knock something loose that you can't see. I've hit a deer, and we got lucky; we had to take the car in for repairs because of things knocked loose, but no injuries, and we came out of it still owning the car (a Prius, for the curious). Twice, actually... deer are a hazard, and that's just the little white-tails. Might not be as bad in Grendel (my truck), but personally, I would rather not test it.
Trees are very bad for any vehicle, realistically; and gravel might as well be greased glass for all the traction you get if you have to maneuver suddenly at speed. If you're not used to driving on gravel, I expect it would be that much worse.

Anyway. Scenario. I found it believable enough; we live out in the boonies, and if you don't know the area, even signed out the roads are a jumble of asphalt spaghetti. While I don't carry a compass (I need to amend that; a good compass would at least give me a head start on an overcast evening), I do carry maps and I usually have a flashlight and or a bundle of glow sticks. GPS isn't 100% even in the cities, and a map is a good backup. Stay on the road, and even if I don't end up walking all the way back, there's a good chance I can flag someone down.

Scary, but manageable; just.. y'know, don't panic.

Offline SmokingCamels

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2016, 03:53:18 PM »
Hrrrm. Well now. The problem with hitting a deer at speed, even in a fairly heavy vehicle isn't the deer totaling the car or doing damage; it's the chance the animal will bounce over the hood and come through the windshield, or knock something loose that you can't see. I've hit a deer, and we got lucky; we had to take the car in for repairs because of things knocked loose, but no injuries, and we came out of it still owning the car (a Prius, for the curious). Twice, actually... deer are a hazard, and that's just the little white-tails. Might not be as bad in Grendel (my truck), but personally, I would rather not test it.
Trees are very bad for any vehicle, realistically; and gravel might as well be greased glass for all the traction you get if you have to maneuver suddenly at speed. If you're not used to driving on gravel, I expect it would be that much worse.

Anyway. Scenario. I found it believable enough; we live out in the boonies, and if you don't know the area, even signed out the roads are a jumble of asphalt spaghetti. While I don't carry a compass (I need to amend that; a good compass would at least give me a head start on an overcast evening), I do carry maps and I usually have a flashlight and or a bundle of glow sticks. GPS isn't 100% even in the cities, and a map is a good backup. Stay on the road, and even if I don't end up walking all the way back, there's a good chance I can flag someone down.

Scary, but manageable; just.. y'know, don't panic.

Right.  Don't panic. 

The majority of the calls my dad gets during October - December are for deer that have been hit.  You know how many of them have been reports of the deer coming up, over, through the windshield and seriously injuring people on the other side?  4 or 5.  During the first week of buck season he can get upwards of 35 calls a day.  Some of the reasons I refuse to drive a piece of junk like a Prius (no offense, especially if yours is powder blue) is that my Ford F-150 is infinitely better at handling bad roads / terrain, has a big, powerful engine, is cheap and easy to fix if something goes wrong, and far more useful when you do live out in the boon docks or require four wheel drive because of the weather.

Again... I pay for it in the cost of gas, plus it's old and beat up.  It's pretty ugly, all things considered, and will never win a beauty contest.  But to me, beauty contests are for girls.  :D

Besides.  Ford = First On Race Day  :D

Online Thorne

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2016, 04:25:57 PM »
Right.  Don't panic. 

The majority of the calls my dad gets during October - December are for deer that have been hit.  You know how many of them have been reports of the deer coming up, over, through the windshield and seriously injuring people on the other side?  4 or 5.  During the first week of buck season he can get upwards of 35 calls a day.  Some of the reasons I refuse to drive a piece of junk like a Prius (no offense, especially if yours is powder blue) is that my Ford F-150 is infinitely better at handling bad roads / terrain, has a big, powerful engine, is cheap and easy to fix if something goes wrong, and far more useful when you do live out in the boon docks or require four wheel drive because of the weather.

Again... I pay for it in the cost of gas, plus it's old and beat up.  It's pretty ugly, all things considered, and will never win a beauty contest.  But to me, beauty contests are for girls.  :D

Besides.  Ford = First On Race Day  :D

Right...
I don't malign your choice of vehicle, I would appreciate it if you would keep your judgments on mine to yourself; especially given that you already come off as a judgmental ass.



Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #106 on: September 25, 2016, 08:45:50 AM »
Okay let's tweak the setting and try one more time. Lonely forest road, it is mid winter, well below freezing point and 30 miles from the nearest house. It's snowing hard and daylight is fairly brief. Your car has an accident that leaves it inert. It is realistic that it could be several days before another car passes by and it might well be the snow plow. Again you have no electronics to lean on for navigation or communication. How would you deal?

Offline SmokingCamels

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #107 on: September 25, 2016, 09:53:04 AM »
I am prepared for the winter, yes?  And in this example, my vehicle is my truck?

The vehicle is less important.  But, if it is my truck, there's a chance I could figure out what is wrong with it and fix it.  If it's a vehicle I don't know, then there is a good chance I can't fix it even if I had a clue what is wrong with it.  I'd check all the obvious stuff first.  My lights.  Do they come on even dimly?  At least the truck has power and it's not a dead battery.  Next obvious thing would be to try and start it.  Do I get a click-click-click sound?  If so, it's a strong chance (especially with the weather) that it's an alternator problem.  If the vehicle just died but didn't lock up, it's a power / electronic problem, not the engine seizing up.  If the truck seemed to lack any speed and just kept revving and not shifting, then it's definitely a tranny problem.  Am I leaking oil?  Like I said, my first step is to identify the problem with the vehicle.  Because if I can identify it, there's a decent chance I can fix it.  If not, I at least have a piece of mind... and my Ford becomes Found On Road Dead.  :{

So okay.  Now the assumption is that I can't get the vehicle to work, it's about to snow like Hell, and it's about to be freezing in a colder than necessary way.  I'm unpacking some of my winter gear, keeping the heater on as long as I can, bundling up, and staying within the shelter of the cab.  No matter how cold it gets, it won't get colder than it is outside the truck, and it also won't get wet.  Inside I stay dry and as warm as possible.  I'm going to sit the night out because daylight is better than darkness and sunlight will at least bring the temperatures back up from -30 to say.. -20 or even -10, which, thankfully, while still cold as F*ck, isn't as bad.  Assuming that I'm still 30 miles away from the nearest place, that's all well good, and epic fun.  30 miles on foot is ridiculously annoying, but it also isn't out of the question.  It's been done before (even by me).  I'mma keep as bundled up as possible, and backtrack the way I came, using the road as my terrain as much as possible.  Even under a foot of snow it's pretty identifiable and it isn't going to make me question what I am stepping on nearly as badly as not being on the road.  In other words, I can tell the difference between the relatively level ground of a road and the uneveness of something not a road.  30 miles, here I come.  Yay.  :P

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #108 on: September 26, 2016, 08:00:44 AM »
It's not an uncommon scenario around here; we are definitely a cabin owning nation here and many of those cabins are out in the wilderness - many are not even near the road, especially the older ones. There's a lot of snowmobiles around for freighting in supplies and those who don't like skiing for hours just to get there. The snowmobiles aren't legal everywhere though. Long story short, the rescuing organizations have their work cut out for them summer as winter. Especially when temperature REALLY drops.

However. In that car, stranded on the outskirts of civilization, I would not be happy about leaving the car unless I knew exactly how far I had to walk, what the odds were of seeing a car or house were, how easy the roads would be to navigate in the dark and how deep the snow was. You don't get far in the wrong kind of snow even if it is only a foot deep. And a car is a big rectangular metal item, frequently in a color different from its surroundings. That eye in the sky sees a car much easier than a walking human.

Assuming then, that I would be preparing to spend the night in the car. First I'd close off the car's air flow to retain what heat there was. I would try not to keep the heater on; it eats battery capacity fairly fast and I would want the power to be there if I heard a vehicle and could signal with my car lights. Also, as long as you have power, you also have multiple means to make fire. And then there is the car radio! Only turn it on at the time of newscasts though. It sure would be nice to know if a search is underway! But keep it off to save on power otherwise, and keep the cabin light off as well.

Keep in mind that a car is essentially a big lump of metal and it draws heat away; anyone who has slept in a car for a whole night knows what a fun chilly experience that is. It is coldest near the bottom of the cabin. Keep your legs up; it also helps with the blood circulation. Also take off your shoes and give them a little extra padding; extra socks if you have, but even some paper tissues will make a difference.

If you have water, drink it sparingly. At some point you will either have to leave the car and unzip or even pull down your pants, which will cost you heat and energy, or you will have to piss inside the car. After a full 24 hours of waiting that's not a pleasant choice any more.

Help could come any moment; be ready to leave the car as soon as you hear or see anything.

If you have a suitable tool for cutting branches, the best way to be seen by a chopper is to make a fire. Fresh pine branches do not love to burn but when they do, they make a thick white smoke. A quarter of oil gives a lot of incentive for burning. Gas/fuel is also good but burns so quick that you should put it on something that burns easily. Like one of the car seats; that foam isn't supposed to be easily burning but it isn't fire repellant either. Oil makes black smoke. Keep in mind that what is BEST seen is actual fire, be it by eye or by heat seeking cameras. Smoke also helps, especially to crews who are searching on ground level and might not be able to see you or your fire directly. Finally there is also the possibility of making a big L on the ground, which indicates Landing Zone. Much simpler than trying to write SOS by branches.

Speaking of SOS. One more way of calling for help is to have a metal tool ready for hammering onto a firm metal part of the car. Bip bip bip beep beep beep bip bip bip is technically no longer the official emergency sign but practically everyone still recognizes it. And sound still carries a long way in the wilderness.

Offline SmokingCamels

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #109 on: September 26, 2016, 05:41:40 PM »
So you destroyed your vehicle to get a rescue.  I toughed the weather to rescue my vehicle.  :P 

#Priorities

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #110 on: September 26, 2016, 07:32:21 PM »
I can replace a vehicle.  If I die, my vehicle can't replace me.

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #111 on: September 28, 2016, 06:08:27 PM »
Okay. New and minimalistic scenario. You will have to hide in a cave for the next three months; the reason why does not matter. There's running water and safe air. And you can go by a major food store on the way and fill your car up - and there's even a camping department with what gear you need.

The challenge is basically, what do you bring of food and related equipment to last you 90 days in a cave? You can disregard clothing, sleeping bags etc and stuff you might need after the term is over.

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2016, 11:27:53 AM »
Something simpler, then.

How do you treat a deep cut, and with what? Let's say you climb through a broken window and an unseen piece of glass gets in a good cut on your upper arm. Deep enough to pass through the skin and cut shallowly into the muscles inside. Should be a basic paramedic issue, right?

My approach would be to cleanse the wound with something liquid: first preference something antibacterial, secondary would be alcohol, third choice boiled water, fourth choice salt water, fifth choice water with a little bleach in it. Then strip the wound together if strips are available, supeglue secondarily, sew with surgical thread or fishing rod thread third and fourth. Finally cover the wound with a compress and a tight bandage. Prepare to wash and re-cover on a daily basis.

Any better suggestions? I would like to use legionaire-leafs (forgetting the translation) under the compress if available; I can't really think of any other medical things to improve it with.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2016, 11:46:33 PM »
Any better suggestions? I would like to use legionaire-leafs (forgetting the translation) under the compress if available;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago_major <--This stuff? 

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2016, 07:07:38 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago_major <--This stuff?

Yeah, that is the one. Thank you.

In old war movies we see soldiers pour some kind of white powder on their comrades' wounds. Does anyone know what the actual purpose and effect of that stuff was? I assume it's antibacterial but I don't think I ever heard a name for it.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2016, 08:55:14 AM »
I think that was styptic powder - which is something to stop bleeding.  In the days of the wars, it consisted of alum, which works by constricting the blood vessels - this could also cause some tissue death at the wound site, but - better than bleeding to death.  You can still get it in vet-supply stores for treating those little nicks from trimming an animal's nails (less danger at that particular site, I guess.)  They've come up with something better/safer that works by gelling the blood (much like platelets do).  Walgreens carries it under the name 'WoundSeal'.

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2016, 06:02:02 PM »
Blood stopping is a very interesting topic. What improvised alternatives are there to WoundSeal, from nature or shop bought?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2016, 07:23:28 PM »
Most of the herbal remedies that deal with that are astringents like witch hazel (also an antiseptic), marigold (ditto), and yarrow (don't know about the antiseptic properties there).  Oak leaves (tannin is also an astringent) can also be used in a pinch.  These all work more like the styptic powder (by contracting tissues), but aren't nearly as intense as alum.

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2016, 08:23:04 AM »
Tannin? You mean a thick red wine would help? Or water cooked leaves and branches in general? We don't have much oak in my part of the world; it's mostly pine and fir, and birch and other leaf trees.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2016, 10:51:35 AM »
I've never heard of wine being used to stop bleeding, but the alcohol would probably be helpful.  (I think some wines are aged in oak casks, aren't they?)  You can also get tannins from fir and birch, but it's more useful to use the bark in those species - fir (there's a reason for the name 'Tannenbaum') and oak bark are both used in tanning, but birch bark apparently doesn't produce as good a leather.  Boiling the bark would be most effective, but in a pinch, you can chew the twigs or bark strips to form a poultice.

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #120 on: October 15, 2016, 11:08:40 AM »
Yes, oak cask are used for wine and certain stronger alcohols, and even chips from oak casks. Normally most of the tannin comes from grape stems and grape pits, which is why I connected tree branches with tannin. But just using the bark seems more sensible. Mashing the bark into poultice with stones or even teeth sounds like a good go-fer blood stopper in an emergency.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #121 on: October 15, 2016, 11:13:54 AM »
A good way to tell if a bark has tannin is to chew a bit of it - if you feel the 'mouth draw' that you get from biting into a grape seed (or getting your tea too strong - black tea is another common source), then you've got a decent source.

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #122 on: October 15, 2016, 11:18:14 AM »
Tea. Now there is a thought. Does all tea work as blood stopper, or only the black one? How about coffee?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #123 on: October 15, 2016, 11:28:24 AM »
Tea made from the tea plant is going to have tannins.  That includes black, green, and white teas, but due to the age of the leaves, the black tea is going to have more tannins than the other two.  A warm tea-bag (no milk or sugar! ;) ) can be used to help draw out styes because of this.  Herbal teas are probably negligible in most cases, as you can let those teas steep for hours without them becoming undrinkable.

According to actual scientific analysis (why can't I get these jobs?) the tannin content of roasted coffee beans is about half that of black tea, so I'd save the coffee for drinking.

Offline Captain MalteseTopic starter

Re: Any survivalists/preppers/doomsdayplanners here?
« Reply #124 on: October 15, 2016, 11:30:28 AM »
What are styes?