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Author Topic: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!  (Read 17784 times)

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Offline Lockepick

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #375 on: March 01, 2016, 06:52:03 AM »
Shouldn't adding the +13 to Tome of Battle Classes be the same as adding it to a wizard? They're both spellcasters, just different flavors. As a wizard, I believe our only option was +13 to Caster Level (but does NOT qualify for higher level spells) or +13 to DC. We couldn't effect the numerics of individual spells.

If we can ALSO apply the +13 to individual spells (as Tome of Battle classes can do so to maneuvers) -- let me know -- that makes my buffs even more intense...

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #376 on: March 01, 2016, 11:55:53 AM »
Shouldn't adding the +13 to Tome of Battle Classes be the same as adding it to a wizard? They're both spellcasters, just different flavors. As a wizard, I believe our only option was +13 to Caster Level (but does NOT qualify for higher level spells) or +13 to DC. We couldn't effect the numerics of individual spells.

If we can ALSO apply the +13 to individual spells (as Tome of Battle classes can do so to maneuvers) -- let me know -- that makes my buffs even more intense...

They're not, really, though, as much as people like to say they are because their abilities are structured by level. As a big difference, Caster Level for a spellcaster is an incredibly important ability considering how many spells scale based on it for range, damage, and duration, and how it's necessary to punch through Spell Resistance. Initiator Level for a martial adept does jack-**** except determine what level of maneuvers you can learn when multiclassing. Similarly, a global save DC boost is great for some traditions, but damn near worthless for others, whereas the only magical school that flat-out can ignore its save DCs for the most part is Conjuration, and a martial adept (except swordsage) will have far less diversity in their traditions than even a specialist wizard would have in their known spell schools. And of course, there are immensely more spells printed across the bulk of 3.5 than the single chapter of maneuvers in ToB.

Summary: Casters benefit from CL boosts and Save DC boosts, and have more options to pick from to ensure those boosts remain relevant. Initiators do not, so combined with their lower versatility and lack of innate scaling, they get the option to boost individual maneuvers instead of taking a global boost.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 11:57:12 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Lockepick

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #377 on: March 01, 2016, 01:27:05 PM »
Saying "This particular ability doesn't benefit this class as much as other classes" doesn't hold much weight for me -- personally. There are PLENTY of abilities that have more/less value when you add the +13 to them. Adding a +13 to hit (which is the only 'gate' for most Martial Adept powers) is pretty much the same as adding +13 to the DC of a spell -- if CL doesn't matter that much to you.

I suppose saying that adding +13 to every specific Martial Adept effect is ridiculous is silly -- given that 'ridiculous' is sort of the name of the game here (mechanically)... so maybe I'm just not in the right frame of mind.

So GM:
 - 1) Can Marital Adepts add their +13 Insight to the effect of individual powers, regardless of their reliance on IL?
 - 2) Can Casters also do that?

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #378 on: March 01, 2016, 02:22:05 PM »
Iron Heart is pretty neat, although I did have one dumb question: iron heart surge can't be used to end a condition if that condition prevents you from taking standard actions at all, right?

Iron Heart is considered one of the two best disciplines in the entire ToB setup - it should say something that the Crusader and the Warblade only get one exclusive discipline each (Devoted Spirit and Iron Heart), whereas the Swordsage gets three (Desert Wind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand).  Plus, warblades get to qualify for fighter bonus feats using their warblade levels.

And reading the maneuver description, it would seem not.  You need to use a standard action to perform Iron Heart Surge.
Warblade, not swordsage.  I can't really do that; at most I might grab a couple Shadow Hand maneuvers if I can spare the feats.  :P

You may want to hold off on spending the feats.  One of the Epic Prestige Classes is Lord of 9 Blades - which only requires ranks in Martial Lore in order to enter.  (23, but, you know, nothing's perfect.)  Lord of 9 Blades gives you, at 1st level, the class feature Master of Nine - if you lack maneuvers in any of the 9 disciplines, you learn 3 maneuvers and 2 stances from each discipline you haven't anything in.

That said, I did want to ask the GM a couple of questions.

1: Martial Lore - in the ToB, it's used just for identifying maneuvers and learning what schools a particular character knows.  Is there a way we can expand Martial Lore so it's, you know, more useful?

2: If we take this PrC, the maneuvers we gain through Master of Nine - it doesn't say anything in the book about needing to fulfill prerequisites of the maneuver (IE, having X maneuvers of the same school).  So...we can pick what we like?

Like to the PrC here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13461807&postcount=32

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #379 on: March 01, 2016, 02:32:14 PM »
Saying "This particular ability doesn't benefit this class as much as other classes" doesn't hold much weight for me -- personally. There are PLENTY of abilities that have more/less value when you add the +13 to them. Adding a +13 to hit (which is the only 'gate' for most Martial Adept powers) is pretty much the same as adding +13 to the DC of a spell -- if CL doesn't matter that much to you.

I suppose saying that adding +13 to every specific Martial Adept effect is ridiculous is silly -- given that 'ridiculous' is sort of the name of the game here (mechanically)... so maybe I'm just not in the right frame of mind.

So GM:
 - 1) Can Marital Adepts add their +13 Insight to the effect of individual powers, regardless of their reliance on IL?
 - 2) Can Casters also do that?

There's a difference between 'not as much as other classes' and 'not at all'. An initiator who is restricted to boosting Initiator Level and/or Save DC the same way a spellcaster would is effectively being denied the ability to apply the bonus at all. I'm stating existing precedent from the current game and existing characters; Zaer could alter/revoke this, but it's how he has treated the issue in the past - initiators and casters are different and treated differently with regards to the Paragon boost.

Offline Lockepick

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #380 on: March 01, 2016, 02:43:45 PM »
I was under the impression Zaer had said before that you could add +13 to your Hit or Damage with any of your powers. Thus my reference to how +13 to Hit is equivalent to +13 DC -- but if that was never said, then my mistake. I'm still not sure +13 to each individual effect, tailored for each power as you use it, is fair to those of us who have to make a broad decision. Not every spell benefits from a boost to DC or a boost to CL, but I make one decision for all my spells.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #381 on: March 01, 2016, 03:09:24 PM »
I don't know about 'as you're using it', that has never been part of the deal as far as I know; it's a fixed decision that can't be changed. But +hit or +damage were valid options for maneuvers, yeah - that's sort of what I was saying. They are the commensurate equivalent of a +save DC boost for spells, but have to be called out as different because some ToB powers also have Saving Throws to avoid their effects.

Online Sain

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #382 on: March 01, 2016, 03:17:37 PM »
Actually I do seem to remember +to hit being allowed for spells and powers as well, though I didn't end up using it and then nobody did because it's better to improve CL or DC. So yeah that ruling was never used so not sure if it's valid anymore.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #383 on: March 01, 2016, 03:20:26 PM »
Guess we do need Zaer to clarify then. Maneuvers don't have anything you could apply the boost to except hit/damage in almost all cases anyways, so it's a bit moot; I guess you could increase the teleport distance of your shadow hand jumps by 13 feet?

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #384 on: March 01, 2016, 03:23:50 PM »
Maneuvers have quite a few things that can be boosted besides to-hit and damage.  A number of moves have a Save DC that can be boosted, amongst other things.

Online Jefepato

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #385 on: March 01, 2016, 08:22:08 PM »
You may want to hold off on spending the feats.  One of the Epic Prestige Classes is Lord of 9 Blades - which only requires ranks in Martial Lore in order to enter.  (23, but, you know, nothing's perfect.)  Lord of 9 Blades gives you, at 1st level, the class feature Master of Nine - if you lack maneuvers in any of the 9 disciplines, you learn 3 maneuvers and 2 stances from each discipline you haven't anything in.
Two issues there:

1) Although it makes sense that it would be easy for an epic martial adept to pick up a lot of maneuvers, it seems like rather poor design to give you more in exchange for having learned less earlier -- especially to the point where a feat spent earlier could actually end up hurting you in the end.

2) We can only take one prestige class at a time IIRC, and I will probably never not be taking Mystic Theurge levels.

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #386 on: March 01, 2016, 08:26:24 PM »
Two issues there:

1) Although it makes sense that it would be easy for an epic martial adept to pick up a lot of maneuvers, it seems like rather poor design to give you more in exchange for having learned less earlier -- especially to the point where a feat spent earlier could actually end up hurting you in the end.

2) We can only take one prestige class at a time IIRC, and I will probably never not be taking Mystic Theurge levels.

1) Lord of 9 actually has 2 effects - one if you have moves from all 9 schools, and one if you don't.  If you don't have moves from all 9 schools, then you get moves for the schools you don't have.  OTOH, if you do have moves from all 9 schools, then you get moves in all 9 schools.  Here, lemme...

Master of Nine: A lord of nine blades is a master of many forms of combat. When he or she gains his or hor first level in this class, if the lord of nine blades possesses maneuvers from fewer than 9 disciplines, he or she chooses a number of disciplines in which he or she knows no maneuvers to make up this difference. For each chosen discipline, the lord of nine blades learns three maneuvers and two stances of his or her choice. If the lord of nine blades already possessed maneuvers from nine or more disciplines, however, he or she instead learns two maneuvers and/or stances in each these disciplines. Either way, the lord of nine blades increases the number of maneuvers he can have readied by 9.

2) Ah, well, that does change things.

Online Jefepato

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #387 on: March 01, 2016, 09:06:11 PM »
1) Lord of 9 actually has 2 effects - one if you have moves from all 9 schools, and one if you don't.  If you don't have moves from all 9 schools, then you get moves for the schools you don't have.  OTOH, if you do have moves from all 9 schools, then you get moves in all 9 schools.
Right, sure.  But as long as you're not going to have moves from all 9 schools quite yet when you hit that level, you're effectively worse off the more schools you do already know (especially if you spent feat slots to get those schools).  That seems silly.  Easy enough to plan for when you know in advance, but still silly.

But yeah, now I mostly just need to pick spells and maneuvers/stances.  This could take a while...

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #388 on: March 01, 2016, 09:41:15 PM »
Point.  But for the most part, you're going to be focusing on a school or two - maybe three, if you're a Swordsage - simply because of the slow gain progression for maneuvers known.  Take your Warblade.  Warblades gain a known maneuver every odd level (thereabouts - it actually gains one at 2nd level, but that's the only time it will).  So, basically, you get 1 new maneuver with each new level of  maneuvers that you can gain access to. 

Given that Warblades get access to Iron Heart, and the discipline contains a ton of moves that are powerful and useful, you'll probably take most of those new moves from Iron Heart, unless there aren't any maneuvers you consider worth taking from that tier.  Which, depending on what you want to do, I could personally see there being a few tiers you pick another move from. 

For Warblades, Diamond Mind and White Raven are usually good secondary disciplines - partly because each offers some useful abilities, and partly because those two share an associated weapon (bastard sword for Diamond Mind and longsword for White Raven).

Swordsages have the ability to diversify, because they gain a new move every level, going up to 25 by the time they max out (compared to 13 or 14 for Warblades and Crusaders).  But even then, you're going to want to limit yourself to no more than 3 disciplines, because the requirements for taking higher-tier maneuvers require you to know a certain amount of moves from that discipline already. 

For example, the Dancing Mongoose boost from Tiger Claw is considered good because it lets you make an additional attack action at your full attack bonus with each weapon you wield, up to 2 extra.  So for someone with Two-Weapon Fighting, and its advanced variants, this is pretty damn awesome.  However, this requires you to already know 2 Tiger Claw maneuvers to learn.  The Raging Mongoose boost is even better, letting you dish out double that of Dancing Mongoose, at a cost of 3 Tiger Claw maneuvers. 

Given that you can only add 2 moves per tier you gain (since you go up 1 tier every 2 levels, if you're straight single-classing Swordsage), focusing on more than 3 disciplines at a time means you end up pretty spread out.  You can get around this somewhat with the fact that starting at 4th level, you can swap out any one move you know for another one up to your highest level, but you still have to abide by the learning prerequisites.

Plus, given how Martial Study and Martial Stance work, you're either going to need to play a Swordsage, or PrC into a class that'll give you access to maneuver schools you lack.  Warblades can manage to gain access to all 9 schools, but it requires PrCing along one of two paths - the Master of Nine is the quickest route, but you can also accomplish it through combining the Jade Phoenix Mage PrC with either using a couple of feats to be able to jump into Shadow Sun Ninja, or using Ruby Knight Vindicator as a springboard into it.

And it's quite simply impossible for a Crusader to do it.

Offline Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #389 on: March 02, 2016, 12:47:40 AM »
Iron Heart is pretty neat, although I did have one dumb question: iron heart surge can't be used to end a condition if that condition prevents you from taking standard actions at all, right?

I consider the Iron Heart Surge as a counter, it's not a strike nor a boost which you activate during your turn. But rather counter vs condittion. Meaning you can activate it even if your turned into stone (literally it's one most broken maneuvers in entire ToB). It does not cancel effects which are not harmful to you (time stop example) and not environment effects (like drowning or falling). But it can end anything else on your part (even if attack caused mass version of curse you can end curse on your part).

If wonder inspiration for this maneuver, it's likely Rurouni Kenshin scene when he faced the guy who could freeze people with fear and Rurouni Kenshin broke free with pure swordsman spirit. The limit using this is that you cannot immediately act expect to move (loosing standard action), only at till end of next turn you get morale bonus to dmg rolls (and also if target can re-apply condittion you haven't got chance yet to use standard action to refresh the maneuver and use it again).

So GM:
 - 1) Can Marital Adepts add their +13 Insight to the effect of individual powers, regardless of their reliance on IL?
 - 2) Can Casters also do that?

1) I do not understand 'reliance of IL' but yes, they can apply +13 insight bonus indidually to every maneuver if they want to (but as mentioned I advice go for universal +13 insight bonus either hit, dmg, save DC's or IL where stances or some boosts could be expection).
2) No, casters cannot do more than +13 insight bonus to CL, save DC's or attack rolls universally (and not go individual nitpick what bonus they got to what spells). As someone mentioned no one goes for +13 insight for spell attacks as it would narrowly pin you down to get bonus only to attack rolls with ray/sphere spells (or melee touch spells).

1: Martial Lore - in the ToB, it's used just for identifying maneuvers and learning what schools a particular character knows.  Is there a way we can expand Martial Lore so it's, you know, more useful?

2: If we take this PrC, the maneuvers we gain through Master of Nine - it doesn't say anything in the book about needing to fulfill prerequisites of the maneuver (IE, having X maneuvers of the same school).  So...we can pick what we like?

Like to the PrC here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13461807&postcount=32

1) Martial Lore I have allowed to be used to learn any 'physical combat' prowess questions (like know BAB differences, any combat feats like power attack + cleave and such or any style or tactical feats).

2) Maneuvers gained from that PrC in first level you need qualify for them (so first maneuver learned is from 1st to 2th level ones and then check 3-4 level ones and then pick 5-9 maneuvers). I see that first level as just means to get 'basic profiency' to every school which you are missing (it's bit OP PrC but not insanely so, it could allow crusader learn suddenly tons of moves but they can still prep limited amount and have still the odd build up and recharge mechanic and can still use one stance only).

But as note stances themselves count help qualify for maneuvers as stances themselves are maneuvers also (or counted as such).

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #390 on: March 02, 2016, 01:02:45 AM »
2) Maneuvers gained from that PrC in first level you need qualify for them (so first maneuver learned is from 1st to 2th level ones and then check 3-4 level ones and then pick 5-9 maneuvers). I see that first level as just means to get 'basic profiency' to every school which you are missing (it's bit OP PrC but not insanely so, it could allow crusader learn suddenly tons of moves but they can still prep limited amount and have still the odd build up and recharge mechanic and can still use one stance only).

But as note stances themselves count help qualify for maneuvers as stances themselves are maneuvers also (or counted as such).

Quick issue I potentially see with that.  At that first level, you gain 3 maneuvers and 2 stances from any discipline you don't have any moves for.  You don't learn any more maneuvers after that, at least, not by how I've read the PrC (though you can check it out for yourself with the link I provided).  Without something like a maneuver swap (like what Swordsages get at even levels starting with 4th), you'll never get beyond basic proficiency with any discipline that you pick up through this class feature, since you can't get more maneuvers after 1st level, and you can't get maneuvers that have a prerequisite of knowing X maneuvers from a discipline already.

Or am I reading this wrong and you're saying that as long as the selection order would allow it to make sense, you can do it?

Just as an example, using Devoted Spirit.  I pick two stances - Iron Guard's Glare (which has no requirements), and Thicket of Blades (which has a requirement of 1 DS maneuver).  I can then go on and pick for my 3 maneuvers Foehammer (which has no requirements), Divine Surge (which has a requirement of 1 DS maneuver), and Entangling Blade (also a requirement of 1 DS maneuver).

Would that be legal, or do I have to pick maneuvers that only have no requirements?

Offline Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #391 on: March 02, 2016, 01:55:45 AM »
That would be legal choices ReijiTabibito, selection order is the key. If you pick iron Guard's Glare first you could learn then Divine Surge and then learn any divine spirit maneuver which has 2 maneuver reqs. Anycase indeed class does not provide any further maneuvers known or prepared etc. You can pick martial study feats or in the every 4th level (in the PrC) swap maneuver to higher level one. Overall first level 'fills' you with knowlegde of all schools which you missed and give you competence to use some maneuvers and stances from each (but overall your strongest schools are the ones which you focused before entering the PrC).

So for martial adept who aims for this PrC is better off to specialize few schools than be 'jack of all trades'. But interesting prospect would be enter the epic PrC first and then enter non-epic version of master of nine PrC to get tons of maneuvers and preparation/stances.

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #392 on: March 02, 2016, 01:59:03 AM »
Okay.  Heard you loud and clear.

There is just one problem with what you've suggested, though - you said that we can't dual-PrC, right?  Any PrC we enter, we have to finish before we could go on a new one, right?

Offline Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #393 on: March 02, 2016, 02:14:48 AM »
Yes, you must finish the PrC before going next one. But the one PrC limit applies pre-epic levels though and in epic HD (past 20) you can take PrC's as you like (even dual progress).

Also with master of nine I would rule (for sake of swordsages or other people who cherry pick one or two maneuvers from other styles, shadow hand is popular for assassin stance and cloak of deception example), I say first level either gives 3 maneuvers and 2 stances from school which you had none maneuvers before or give you 1 maneuver and 1 stance to any school which you have maneuvers already (and first level in all such schools you can swap maneuver to higher level one if you qualify for it after learning additional maneuvers if you so desire).

So it would not be so silly sounding as delay entering master of nine non-epic version just cause it makes sense more (it can be powerful choice on purpose specialize, enter epic PrC and then progress non-epic PrC for maneuver numbers). Although alternatively you get more maneuvers prepared by multiclassing to other martial adept base classes (like master warblade up to 20, enter epic PrC and finish up to 10 and then enter swordsage).

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #394 on: March 03, 2016, 10:23:46 PM »
Quick question to pose to the GM.  Nevermind.  I discovered in the process of reading the feat entry that I couldn't qualify for it, anyways.

Second question - when we're done with our character, where do we put them?

Third question - the Swordsage gets a class ability: Insightful Strike.  You pick a maneuver school, and that lets you add damage based on your Wisdom modifier (despite the name, this is just a bonus, not an insight bonus).  Would the +13 insight bonus to special attacks also apply to this class feature?

Offline Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #395 on: March 04, 2016, 02:54:59 AM »
When done with the char you post it full on here on this thread first for approval, once given you post it in the characther sheet thread. What comes to Insightful Strike you do not apply +13 insight bonus to it as it's a feature which allows add additional stat mod to the dmg (and I think so far none had added it such way).

Online Jefepato

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #396 on: March 04, 2016, 08:16:37 PM »
I consider the Iron Heart Surge as a counter, it's not a strike nor a boost which you activate during your turn. But rather counter vs condittion. Meaning you can activate it even if your turned into stone (literally it's one most broken maneuvers in entire ToB). It does not cancel effects which are not harmful to you (time stop example) and not environment effects (like drowning or falling). But it can end anything else on your part (even if attack caused mass version of curse you can end curse on your part).
Works for me!

Yes, you must finish the PrC before going next one. But the one PrC limit applies pre-epic levels though and in epic HD (past 20) you can take PrC's as you like (even dual progress).
That too.  I guess I know what I'm doing if/when this character hits epic levels.

Apropos of not much, I always did like the Stone Dragon discipline a lot, but it does seem like a poor choice for a character who has no reason to stand on the ground in any serious fight...

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #397 on: March 04, 2016, 08:41:40 PM »
Stone Dragon is pretty bad at high levels, yeah. At low levels it's fantastic, but in the high double-digits flight is so common that it's really hard to use. Keeping gems like Mountain Hammer around to auto-bypass all DR or Hardness is worth it just for the few occasions you can land the hit, though.

Online Jefepato

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #398 on: March 04, 2016, 09:38:33 PM »
Yeah, I probably won't bother except for Mountain Hammer (because cracking any amount of hardness is just grand) and, someday, Mountain Tombstone Strike (because I want so much to add that +13 insight bonus to the CON damage dice).

Tiger Claw looks interesting, but I wasn't going to go with dual-wielding, and I don't want to try and get my brain around the concept of making Jump checks with a character who already has perfect-maneuverability flight twice as fast as his ground speed.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!
« Reply #399 on: March 04, 2016, 09:58:49 PM »
Since you mentioned Iron Heart earlier, I assume you're using Warblade as your chassis. That does mean you're limited to Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, and White Raven (since SD and TC are out), but that's still an excellent spread. The Diamond Mind Nightmare Blade maneuvers are absurd with the sort of bonuses we can pile on to skill checks, and it's also where you can get Saving Throw=Yes. Iron Heart's got Surge of Nope and not a whole lot else, but that alone is worth it. White Raven has no-save Stuns, which are amazingly good and one of a tiny number of disabling effects that'll still work in our weight class unless you're an Elemental or Undead.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 10:01:25 PM by TheGlyphstone »