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Author Topic: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)  (Read 2786 times)

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Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2015, 12:18:41 PM »
 Ah, alright. Wish I could get Chummer to work, but it's being a pain in the ass to me right now.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2015, 12:38:06 PM »
On second thought, I think I might step out of this as well. Being a Rigger just looks too complex for me to have fun with, in addition to feeling rather out of place with the transhuman concept since there is no bioware that helps with Rigging.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2015, 12:51:40 PM »
 Do we have to use the priority system or can we use karma?

Offline HopeFox

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2015, 03:52:28 PM »
Do we have to use the priority system or can we use karma?

It was stated on the first page of the thread that we are using Sum To Ten character creation.

Offline RSGAlexTopic starter

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2015, 04:25:33 PM »
Prototype Transhuman applies to any metahuman type. So no Centaurs or Naga, but Trolls and Orcs are fine. And yeah instead of max availability being 12, it's 14, so anything 14F, 14R, or 14 is purchasable without having to take the quality that gives you the ability to have a single thing up to 24.

Any any of the standard creation types is fine. (Priority, Sum to Ten, and whatever the karma number is. Can you tell which one I use least?)

Shadowfox, remember to go to options to enable most of the materials. Don't do Gunner's Heaven 3, because it's mostly crap or conversion stuff, IIRC.

Offline Xerial

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2015, 04:35:08 PM »
This comes to my attention a week after I lent all of my books to someone... oh the Post-Humanity.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2015, 05:02:19 PM »
Okay, I think I might have a concept I like to jump back into contention, but I'm not sure how well it will work with the premise.

What I want/think would be cool is a rigger who, possibly as a result of the tampering/experiments done on his transhuman brain, suffers from extreme depersonalization disorder and spends every second he can beyond the minimum needed for survival jumped into a humaniform drone, that he considers 'him' more than his meat-body. Can I pull this off under the constraints of character creation we're using and the intended plot of the game?

Offline RSGAlexTopic starter

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2015, 07:02:20 PM »
Yes, you can. Definitely going to take a good chunk of resources, but less than a normal drone rigger because you're probably just going for one tricked out drone. I'd have to look up the exact negative qualities you'd want to take (although you'd want to take the one positive quality that gives you a bonus to resist addiction so that you can spend more time in hot-sim VR) but it's possible.

I'd recommend a drone type, but I only recall one humaniform drone offhand, and that's because it had swords and a unique skill. Although I think Hard Target had a sparring/MA teaching drone which was also humaniform.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2015, 07:17:36 PM »
Yes, you can. Definitely going to take a good chunk of resources, but less than a normal drone rigger because you're probably just going for one tricked out drone. I'd have to look up the exact negative qualities you'd want to take (although you'd want to take the one positive quality that gives you a bonus to resist addiction so that you can spend more time in hot-sim VR) but it's possible.

I'd recommend a drone type, but I only recall one humaniform drone offhand, and that's because it had swords and a unique skill. Although I think Hard Target had a sparring/MA teaching drone which was also humaniform.

I can use an Ares Duelist as my 'body', yeah, and trick it out with extra weapon mounts. I can also get an RCC and use it to run a network of support drones alongside my main drone, which will be expensive as hell but I don't really have anything else to spend cash on.

My concerns here are:
A) There's no way in SR5 to modify a drone except by strapping weapons onto it - no extra armor or anything interesting by default, and the prices in 4e books are so wildly different they are useless. So my 'primary' drone is still going to be somewhat fragile.

B) I'm not sure what to do with my meat-body while I'm running my tricked-out drone around. Partly because I'm uncertain how range affects wireless operation, and the possibility of getting jammed and thus completely cut off from my drone(s) in a fight.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 07:21:39 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline HopeFox

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2015, 07:29:34 PM »
Living in a human drone could be cool! My character is going to spend most of her time on the Matrix anyway. If you have high Logic, it's not too hard to resist simsense addiction.

The Ares Duelist drone is pretty cool - it only costs 4,500 nuyen, comes with a pair of swords, and can mount a single regular weapon like an assault rifle. You might be able to modify it to be able to manipulate objects better. Sadly, Rigger 5.0 doesn't come out until January at current estimates.

Hard Targets has the sparring drone, which has slightly lower stats than the Ares Duelist, and is good for training your close combat skills against. Again, you'd need to modify it a bit for it to be a good everyday drone.

There's also the Mitsuhama Akiyama, but that's Availability 24F and costs 200,000 nuyen.

The Ares Duelist by itself will be pretty cheap - giving it a mounted Yamaha Raiden will cost another 5,100 nuyen. That'll leave plenty of money for a good Control Rig, a good Rigger Command Console, some more drones and a bit of cyberware (Reaction Enhancers are good).

You can use the Ares Duelist as your "personal body" drone, and use other drones for heavy combat situations. The Duelist only has Body 4 and Armor 4, which isn't great, but it does have 14 boxes on its Physical Condition Monitor, and you roll your Reaction + Intuition to dodge attacks in it, so make sure you have plenty of that.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2015, 07:40:43 PM »
This is my spending list so far. The Jackrabbit was my plan for moving meat-me around, since I didn't have a better idea at hand.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
369,750 NY total


(Transhuman package)
Synaptic Booster 1 = 95000
Sleep Regulator = 12000
Digestive Endosont = 10000

Transys Avalon Comlink w/ Hotsim = 5350
Control Rig Rating 2 = 97000 NY
Lone Star Remote Commander RCC = 75000

CN Jackrabbit = 10,000
Ares Duelist = 4500
Doberman = 5000
Doberman = 5000
Roto-Drone = 5000
Roto-Drone = 5000

4x Weapon Mount = 10,000
6x Ares Alpha = 15,900

Ares Alpha Targeting Autosoft 6 = 3000
Roto-Drone Maneuver Pilotsoft 6 = 3000
Doberman Maneuver Pilotsoft 6 = 3000
Roto-Drone Evasion Autosoft 6 = 3000
Doberman Evasion Autosoft 6 = 3000
Clearsight Autosoft 6 = 3000
Electronic Warfare Autosoft 6 = 3000
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 07:41:51 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline HopeFox

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2015, 07:49:07 PM »
Looks like fun! Can I ride in the Jackrabbit too? I haven't actually put much thought into where my meat body goes.

I recommend Reaction Enhancers rather than a Synaptic Booster. You can get Used Rating 3 Reaction Enhancers for 29,250 nuyen and 1.125 Essence, much more cheaply than the synaptic booster, and the extra Initiative die from the Synaptic Booster won't help when you're jumped in. For your Transhuman stuff, you could get a Cerebral Booster for extra Logic, or even a Cerebellum Booster for extra Intuition. There isn't a whole lot of bioware that's good for VR types, as I found.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2015, 07:54:24 PM »
I think it's a 2-seater, it was meant for me and my drone - but I've got spare cash floating, so I might as well upgrade it to a Bulldog or something and carry the rest of the team along with us.

Good idea on the Reaction Enhancer, I wasn't sure if Synaptic Boosters would help while jacked-in or not.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2015, 07:55:57 PM »
 Do we have a gun/combat adept already?

Offline RSGAlexTopic starter

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2015, 07:57:19 PM »
Yeah. A is a big pain, and I think why half of everyone's waiting for the rigger book to come out. For now, I'd think that you could try putting internal tookits and such into a drone as though it had cyberlimbs.

B is handled by the tables on page 231, but I'll give you the skinny on how you deal with. First, if you're not going to start off with a lot of drones besides your body (and perhaps a backup), don't split your RCC's device rating between Sharing and Noise Reduction, just put it all in noise reduction. Also you'll want these programs for your RCC, roughly in this order: Signal Scrub, Encryption, and Biofeedback Filter.

Also, invest in Electronic Warefare, as you can roll it and get the hits as extra noise reduction. Now, any noise left after all that is applied as penalties to your actions taken. For emergency body defense, buy a few meters of wire to replace the default one meter one you're getting and plug it into your body. As long as you have a wired connection, jamming, noise, and all that won't matter to your rigged in actions.

It can matter for your wireless bonuses, but that's why you'd want a high rating commlink to slave non-drone weapons to.

For a practical example, assuming that you have the second worst rig and have Signal Scrub running, then you'd take no penalty for being 1 km away, your drone behind 5 meters of metal reinforced walls, if both of you were in a rating 2 spam or static zone.  If you were instead 5 km away and you were in an abandoned underground place, then your rolls are all losing 3 dice, but you're probably pretty safe. So if you have good initiative, take one pass to roll Electronic Warfare + Logic and each hit gets rid of one more die of penalty.

Same goes for if somebody starts jamming you.

EDIT: The above was written before you posted your expenses. Although I don't think you need the hotsim in your commlink. The RCC has it by default. Unless you wanted it in there for other reasons. Then you might want trodes, if you aren't going to spring for a datajack (which also gives more noise reduction). And you might then want to note if the autosofts are on your RCC or the drones. It matters for the sharing if you're going to use it. Which you might. Signal Scrub + Datajack is still an okay resting Noise Reduction and it lets you run all the softs off your RCC but the Electronic Warfare one.

And since I'll be by my books for a bit, if anyone else wants my two bits on a question, ask away. I'm going to be looking for answers to other questions, like does PT cover geneware. (I'm sure it covers other metatypes because they're all still humans, so to speak. See Earthdawn and questions about interbreeding, etc. etc.)

EDIT: And I did a little while editing in for the stuff said above, and here's my soft rule for Prototype Transhuman and geneware. Anything that's in Transgenics or beyond is definitely beyond the limits of PT. Now to look over the rest of the thread.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2015, 08:10:21 PM »
Okay, so it sounds like I can run my drones from a pretty safe distance and still be effective, as long as I invest in Electronic Warfare and run those programs you mentioned. I don't have a listed Datajack right now because the Control Rig comes with one built-in anyways...it doesn't specifically say it has the same Wireless functionality, but I assumed it would

The Lone Star Commander console has Device Rating 6, so it could run Signal Scrub, Encryption, Biofeedback Filter, Clearsight, Targeting, and one Maneuvering 'soft, assuming I devote its full capacity to networking, correct? That'd be me and one pair of drones on most missions, depending on if I wanted aerial or ground support.


EDIT: Oh, and as far as Armor goes, I did a quick cross-comparison between SR4 and SR5, and it looks like they brought the costs of vehicles over pretty much identical - drones are, on average, 2x as expensive. With that in mind, could I use some of the augmentations out of Arsenal for double their 4E list price? I'm looking at Armor (200/400 per point, cap of double Body), and possibly Body Stabilizers (3000/6000 per level).
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:25:39 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2015, 08:16:45 PM »
 What book is Sum to Ten from?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2015, 08:17:38 PM »
Run Faster.

Offline HopeFox

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2015, 08:25:47 PM »
I think it's a 2-seater, it was meant for me and my drone - but I've got spare cash floating, so I might as well upgrade it to a Bulldog or something and carry the rest of the team along with us.

Good idea on the Reaction Enhancer, I wasn't sure if Synaptic Boosters would help while jacked-in or not.

Having a team vehicle is always a great idea. I'm really lamenting our lack of one in Civil Disobedience. :)

The Reaction bonus from Synaptic Boosters would still apply when rigging - Reaction is pretty much the only Physical attribute that affects VR - but the extra Initiative die wouldn't stack with the extra 3D6 you get for hit-sim VR. You might be able to get the Reaction Optimization complementary genetics genemod as well, which gives a flat +1 Initiative to anyone with reaction enhancers.

You could also hardwire a Vectored Signal Filter into your RCC. That's a cyberdeck module, but with the Hardware skill you (or I) can hack one into any device, giving it another 2 points of noise reduction. Alternatively, you could hardwire a Multidimensional Coprocessor module to give yourself another 1D6 initiative.

Offline RSGAlexTopic starter

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2015, 08:28:36 PM »
The control rig comes with connector and a meter of cable, which lets you plug into things like a data jack, but doesn't have the wireless bonus of the datajack. On the other hand, it's just one noise reduction, so it shouldn't break the metaphoric bank either way.

The sharing is only for autosofts. The cyberprograms are separate, and IIRC based on the device rating of your RCC.  So you can put a little towards the Noise Reduction/more autosofts.

And since I'm part way through the thread, here's something for HopeFox. Consider getting a Security license for your false id, mostly for bluffing purposes. You'll also want to put Trodes into something, unless you're going to race that first 13 karma into submersion and take... Skinlink IIRC. Yeah, it's skinlink.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2015, 08:31:25 PM »
Alright cool.

Vectored Signal Filter...must be in a non-Core book.

Just as a general request, can citations for which splats stuff are found in be mentioned so I know which PDF to crack open? It'll help look stuff like this up.


EDIT: Oh, and as far as Armor goes, I did a quick cross-comparison between SR4 and SR5, and it looks like they brought the costs of vehicles over pretty much identical - drones are, on average, 2x as expensive. With that in mind, could I use some of the augmentations out of Arsenal for double their 4E list price? I'm looking at Armor (200/400 per point, cap of double Body), and possibly Body Stabilizers (3000/6000).
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:33:41 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline RSGAlexTopic starter

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2015, 08:34:19 PM »
If you can get Chummer 5a to work for you, just go to options, plug in the non-Gunner's Heaven stuff, and then do a search under gear. It'll give you the page and the book. IIRC, what's being mentioned is stuff from Data Trails.


EDIT: Oh, and for ShadowFox, Muse has a mage, but from the looks of it, I think that the build is going grow into summoning with a side of magic melee. Non-adept magic melee, but still. Use reagents to get higher limits on the buff spells and a few sustaining foci, and it can be pretty scary.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:40:38 PM by RSGAlex »

Offline HopeFox

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2015, 08:42:27 PM »
Vectored Signal Filter is in Data Trails (p. 65), along with the other cyberdeck modules and the rules for hacking them into commlinks, RCCs and toasters. It's not the obvious place to look for rigger stuff, I know.

EDIT: And I did a little while editing in for the stuff said above, and here's my soft rule for Prototype Transhuman and geneware. Anything that's in Transgenics or beyond is definitely beyond the limits of PT. Now to look over the rest of the thread.

Well, Genetic Optimization is a Phenotypic Alteration, and Narco is Exotic Metagenics, so those should be okay. PuSHed is Transgenics, so I'll get rid of that. It was awfully expensive.

I'll have a think about what to replace PuSHed with. Improved myelination is tempting, since all the damage I take in the Matrix is biofeedback damage, and my Willpower and Firewall are pretty lousy.

Offline RSGAlexTopic starter

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2015, 08:51:35 PM »
Biofeedback is the worst enemy of a Techno. Perhaps get an Omega-grade Pain Editor and pitch a good idea for the downside to me?

EDIT: Oh, wait. I forgot how little essence PuSHed was.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:53:42 PM by RSGAlex »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Of Dice and Men (SR5) (At least NC)
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2015, 08:55:06 PM »
I've got Natural Hardening, the Increased Myelination, and a Biofeedback Filter, for a net +4 dice over my Willpower+Firewall of 11 to resist the Biofeedback I'll be taking. I think that's about as good as I get right now.


Can I get a thumbs-up/down on strapping extra armor to my drones, as noted? By Arsenal, the Armor upgrade replaces existing armor instead of augmenting it, so I'll need to buy at least 5 points to even see a difference - 3200/drone to give them the max of Armor 8.