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Author Topic: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)  (Read 3851 times)

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Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2015, 11:44:17 PM »

While I got an evil laugh out of the post above, I have to wonder how well this would work with those who are only religious on the outside, so to speak.

Offline Praxis

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2015, 01:18:48 PM »
They exploit people with chronic depression into picking up an explosive belt and throwing away their lives. But no , they're holding back because no one wants to be branded as ' the guy who attacked other Muslims'. Well they're not.



It's a messaging problem and news/media outlets aren't helping.

While ISIS is doing a great job of making it an "Islamic" thing...it's not.

Religion isn't the problem here.  Terrorists...villains...sub-human people are the problem here.  I'm not really certain why the media outlets are pushing the "Islam" angle as hard as they are (beyond sheer ignorance which I think is likely).  There are...what...over 1 billion Muslims?  This is one group of Muslims that are getting it way...way wrong. 

Of course ISIS will paint it as a war on Muslims.  They benefit from that incorrect view point.

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2015, 01:31:01 PM »
Religion isn't the problem here.  Terrorists...villains...sub-human people are the problem here.  I'm not really certain why the media outlets are pushing the "Islam" angle as hard as they are (beyond sheer ignorance which I think is likely). 

There are certain people/groups who thrive on keeping the population divided against its own interests.  Don't look at the man behind the curtain - that person over there is the real problem, because they've got a different [skin color, religion, gender, orientation] than you.

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2015, 01:50:05 PM »
There are certain people/groups who thrive on keeping the population divided against its own interests.  Don't look at the man behind the curtain - that person over there is the real problem, because they've got a different [skin color, religion, gender, orientation] than you.

To go along with that....

A good friend of mine posted this on FB today, and it is so true: 

Spoilered for large size

Offline Praxis

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2015, 02:13:24 PM »
To go along with that....

A good friend of mine posted this on FB today, and it is so true: 

Spoilered for large size

I was off by 0.6!   *shakes fist at you*

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2015, 02:20:26 PM »
I was off by 0.6!   *shakes fist at you*

*sheepish grin* 

Sorry.  ;D 

Offline Praxis

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2015, 02:43:35 PM »
*sheepish grin* 

Sorry.  ;D

It's not as if 0.6 of a billion is a large number or anything...

Offline Zakharra

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2015, 12:46:05 AM »
  I ran across this on another forum. It's good and faces the problem of ISIS head on.
 http://www.jeraldinephneah.me/2015/11/singaporean-muslim-response-to-the-paris-terror-attacks-by-isis.html

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2015, 01:17:42 AM »
Police in Serbia have found a Syrian passport that matches the one found next to one of the suicide bombers who tried to get inside the Stade de France stadium - but with a different photograph. Someone with a passport showing the same details passed the Greek island of Leros in early October, this would likely have been the future bomber set on a course for Paris, but it's not 100% sure (there are no notes from there about what the photo looked like). Most likely both passports are fakes, developed from the stolen or traded passort of some unknown Syrian.

Just shows that a) we don't know who these terrorists were, and b) you can't really trust a Syrian passport any longer. They're preferred for skilful faking and duplicating, a point that I've heard made by several police officials over the last week
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 01:18:50 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Formless

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2015, 05:48:28 AM »
  I ran across this on another forum. It's good and faces the problem of ISIS head on.
 http://www.jeraldinephneah.me/2015/11/singaporean-muslim-response-to-the-paris-terror-attacks-by-isis.html

While I see the good intention behind that man's post. It is sadly false.

Sura 4, Verse 93. Killing a muslim denounce your Islam-hood.
But whoever kills a believer intentionally his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.

[spoiler Sura 5, Verse 32. The Sanctity of one life equals all life.]Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.[/spoiler]

These radicals denounced their humanity before they denounced their islamhood. They're not one of us. They're not humans.

And let's not forget these are the same people who actually bomb mosques. So no , they're not Muslims. I will not recognize them as Muslims , I will not recognize them as humans , and I will not recognize their right to die a quick death.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2015, 12:18:34 PM »
While I see the good intention behind that man's post. It is sadly false.

Sura 4, Verse 93. Killing a muslim denounce your Islam-hood.
But whoever kills a believer intentionally his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.

[spoiler Sura 5, Verse 32. The Sanctity of one life equals all life.]Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.[/spoiler]

These radicals denounced their humanity before they denounced their islamhood. They're not one of us. They're not humans.

And let's not forget these are the same people who actually bomb mosques. So no , they're not Muslims. I will not recognize them as Muslims , I will not recognize them as humans , and I will not recognize their right to die a quick death.

 I would agree with that if not for the fact that Muslims have been killing each other for centuries. Muslim have fought and killed other Muslims for a very long time now and as far as I know, none of them have been called 'not Muslims' (or whatever the term is). Just saying that ISIS is killing other Muslims makes them not Muslims, doesn't fly when there are numerous examples throughout the history of Islam of Muslims killing each other for varied reasons; ideology (Shia, Shiite, and other sects), different countries invading each other, fighting over who will rule, and so on. So I cannot accept that reasoning as being a reason ISIS isn't Islamic.

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2015, 12:39:01 PM »
There are people that claim they are Christian and still kill other Christians and burn churches and other heinous things.  There are even hate groups that claim they are Christians.  Allowing them to claim that kinship is where we have a choice. 

I, for one, do not.  They may quote scripture, and go to services, but they have lost sight of the meaning.

Offline Amelita

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2015, 01:03:58 PM »
We are defined by our choices. If we define people by religions we run into so many problems because religion is a highly personal thing. Being muslim and being muslim can be as different as being christian and being bhuddist. Raining down on a group of people for the choices they make while defining them by religion can never achieve anything positive in my opinion.

That said, my heart broke when this Paris attack pushed on media coverage and anger that got the world back on the prejudice track :/ The bad guys won the game before we even started playing it.

Offline Cycle

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2015, 03:19:53 PM »
There are people that claim they are Christian and still kill other Christians and burn churches and other heinous things.  There are even hate groups that claim they are Christians.  Allowing them to claim that kinship is where we have a choice. 

I, for one, do not.  They may quote scripture, and go to services, but they have lost sight of the meaning.

Some Christians use the so-called word of God to spread hate and intolerance.  Others blow up government building and kill innocents. Telling me you are a Christian is like telling me you like hamburgers.  It tells me nothing about your capacity to do wrong.


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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2015, 03:51:30 PM »
Some Christians use the so-called word of God to spread hate and intolerance.  Others blow up government building and kill innocents. Telling me you are a Christian is like telling me you like hamburgers.  It tells me nothing about your capacity to do wrong.

Self-applied labels aren't any guarantee of truth (agreeing with you and expanding my point).  If you say you like hamburgers, and consistently choose something different on the menu, then I'm going to think you don't really like hamburgers.


Offline Cycle

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2015, 07:14:35 PM »
Bush 3.0 explains how to prove your Christian.  (Apologies for the ad.)

Yeah.  Good plan. 

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2015, 07:27:41 PM »
Bush 3.0 explains how to prove your Christian.  (Apologies for the ad.)

Yeah.  Good plan.

*Urge to light up a joint* Feel like I'm the last relatively sane Christian left some days.....the penguins...they steal my sanity one by one....and one of them is named Gunter! He wont stop dancing!

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2015, 07:30:03 PM »
*Urge to light up a joint* Feel like I'm the last relatively sane Christian left some days.....the penguins...they steal my sanity one by one....and one of them is named Gunter! He wont stop dancing!

I would have thought Rico would be the one hiding stuff.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2015, 08:01:51 PM »
Back on topic.

Seems one of the terrorists are still at large.  Going by the telegraph site, may be a bit slow though or for me it was awfully so on my labtop.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11999927/Paris-France-terror-attacks-isil-Belgium-Molenbeek-suspects-Syria-Raqqa-bombing-live.html

Offline Cycle

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2015, 08:21:40 PM »
To those who think we shouldn't try to help the Syrian refugees, these articles are worth reading:  here and here



It'd be nice if we can learn a little from history.

Offline White Wolf

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2015, 03:30:32 AM »
I for one am very happy to see both Jeb Bush and John McCain come out against the GOP's anti-refugee rhetoric. Whatever happened to the "Home of the Brave?" When we have Chris Christie saying he won't take in a "five year old orphan," when did cowardice become the Republican Party's electoral strategy? In even more simplistic terms; isn't running screaming from orphans and widows quite literally giving in to "terror?" If we're too frightened by terrorism to even cast out the most basic lifelines to those in need - those actually fleeing that same terrorism in their home countries - then how can we talk about fighting a war on terror?

America and Europe should institute a new rule - politicians who refuse to take in refugees should not be allowed discuss military solutions to ISIS. We wouldn't want to frighten them any further.

In good news, though, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that high-level talks are taking place between France, the United States and Russia to form a "grand coalition" against ISIS.

The single biggest problem with the war effort against ISIS was contradictory mission statements; up until now the West has been rabidly transfixed on removing Assad from power, going so far as (before the emergence of ISIS as a serious terrorist threat, if you can cast your mind back that far) arming Jihadist groups in Syria and, after the emergence of ISIS, not having a clear objective in the fight - for PR purposes, they had to be seen to be targetting ISIS, but at the same time ISIS was helping push back against Assad so they didn't exactly want to go too far in the beating.

A few weeks ago US policy suddenly changed tack (curiously, almost immediately following the publication of an article in the Wall Street Journal by none other than Henry Kissinger, who suggested that cooperation with, not opposition to, Russia's own strategic objectives in Syria might be the best way forwards for the United States in containing ISIS) when the White House signalled that it may be willing to let Assad remain in power long enough to deal comprehensively with the Islamic State. After Paris, they expanded on this by agreeing on a formal timetable for a Syrian ceasefire (from January of next year) as well the road to actual elections which may, or may not, see Assad stand down from power.

The implication is very much that Syria's fragmented militia groups and government forces, as well as the world powers playing one side off against the other, are coalescing now in the face of ISIS as a mutual threat. While it's probably little consolation to Syrians themselves, who've already had nearly 4-5 years of nonstop war, it means ISIS may at last be driven out for good. As for the Syrians caught in the middle...well, that's why it's imperative we absolutely DO NOT close our borders to refugees. They have just as much right to live in peace as we do.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2015, 03:31:12 AM »
It''s true that Christians and Muslims have both committed some atrocities throughout history - let's not forget the Spanish Inquisition. I think it's human to try to rise to power and shape the world and our environment so that it's conducive to our mindset and needs. The problem with religions like these though, is that they are full of contradictions and considered to be "the word of god" and thus final. They are broken, but it's forbidden to repair them. I say fix the damn religious texts so that they are sane and open them up to people to question, debate, discard and improve on. Then and only then might some progress be made.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2015, 04:58:51 AM »
Still not clear whether the French police actually caught the ringleader during a long televised siege of a house in Saint-Denis, just north of Paris. They got seven people out alive and took them away for questioning, not sure if the head man is one of them, but the police clearly throught he was there. Anyway, the mastermind of the whole operation was by no means unknown to cops and security people anywhere in Europe, he had been on the "fifty most wanted dangerous jihadists" lists for a long time, and everyone supposed he was still in IS territory in Syria.

It's *very* embarrassing that he had managed to get from Syria to France, across multiple national borders, without any cops noticing him or stopping him. There will be some really hard questions over this to police and politicians all over Europe.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 05:04:09 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2015, 06:47:42 AM »
Police have confirmed that the man who led the plot was killed during the shootout in Saint-Denis on wednesday morning. It's been secured with fingerprint matching (to print samples that were taken long before the last few months), so it sounds definitive. An extremely dangerous man, and most likely, if it had been up close, he would have killed himself rather than let them take him alive. From the reports earlier, it sounded like his body had indeed been partly blown up by a bomb or something - said one body was "mixed up with pieces of the wall and furniture" and so on... Hmm.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 06:54:14 AM by gaggedLouise »

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Re: Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2015, 01:23:25 PM »
it sounded like his body had indeed been partly blown up by a bomb or something -

There was a female suicide bomber that detonated the bomb attached to herself during the raid, so they are thinking that was likely the cause.