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Author Topic: Netanyahu newest UN speech.  (Read 633 times)

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Offline Garuss VakarianTopic starter

Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« on: October 02, 2015, 12:57:54 AM »
Well, to start off. Daaaaaaam, did he go all out in this speech. You could hear a pin needle drop, that's how silent he left the UN. And for good reason, he is right in a lot of ways. The worlds leaders are to silent on the matter of radical Islam, and for what reason? Political correctness? Personally I think he had every right to make the threat he did. That if nothing is done about this, if he thinks for one moment that Islam will have a bomb. He will do everything in his power to ensure they dont join the "Nuclear Weapons club." He has every right to say this, because he is trying to protect his people from a country that clearly say's and would use their first bomb on Jerusalem. (And it's second bomb on the great Satan, America no doubt.) My only concern is the gravity of his threat. It is obvious he would protect his nation by any means necessary. And lets be realistic here, he is not having idle fears. This is a country that has historically, and to this day is openly chanting death to the Jews. Just now a days they include Americans. Doing so, alongside it's president, in large chants. But I do fear Benjamin is wiling to actually go as far as a nuclear weapon launch. Honestly he is going to paint himself as a bad man, but at the same time he has no choice. Either be 'progressive' and pretend there is nothing going on and nothing wrong with the Iran's leaders. (As the radical islamics love, since that is what they use to their advantage more then anything else. IE, political correctness.) Or be a realist, and try to openly protect his people from a country that has openly persecuted them and to this day openly calls out for Jewish extinction. Honestly I dont blame him for his choice, because the other option leads to an obvious outcome. If any one actually thinks Iran, a country that has shamelessly broken it's promises, deals, and international laws in the past would ACTUALLY adhere to any of the restrictions we placed on this nuclear deal. You got another thing coming. If they get a bomb, they WILL more then likely, use it. The Isrealy president is not saying it for fun. He will drop bombs the absolute second he can, because as tolerant as we may try to be here in the west, that country just simply is not tolerant. As there are tolerant Muslims, it doesn't change the fact that it's countries leader has openly alongside millions of it's people chanted. Death to the great Satan, death to Jerusalem.

But what do you people think? Is Benjamin freaking out over nothing? Or is there legitimacy in his fears?And,  Is his threat to take action legit? Or is it idle?

Death to America and Jerusalem chants: (Hell they even burn the flags. T_T How disrespectful, and intolerant.)



Benjamin Netenyaho's speech:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:58:56 PM by Garuss Vakarian »

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 07:41:57 AM »
My heart goes out to Israel. They are in a bad position, every nation around them has on multiple times said they want to destroy their nation and wipe out the people that live there. Every action they take is demonized and if they make 1 mistake or take any action too far (as I feel they sometimes have done) then they are demonized even more.


Netanyahu has a tough job. But he does what he feels is necessary for his people. No matter how violent, how dirty, he does what he can.

It reminds me of a quote I once heard from a korean comic a long while ago. I can't find it or remember the exact phrasing but it went something like this.

"People who complain about the treatment of animals, and yet never stop eating meat can only complain because they have never has to raise and butcher them themselves. They have the luxury of only eating the prepared meal. Some people complain about the soldiers on the border, who defend their right to criticize those same soldiers.

While these same people spit upon soldiers they would never lift a finger to defend themselves or another, never have the courage to die for safety and freedom. They can only do so because someone else allowed them to, someone else dug their hands through the muck and dirt and made sure that they were nice and clean. That they could have the luxury of being able to complain.


While its easy to point the finger and call Israel evil or too extreme, we must remember that we aren't in their situation. We don't live with the daily threat of rockets and suicide bombers or attack from every nation and hare group around them. So in that sense while I dont always like how Israel responds to things, I can empathize with them, they live in a harsh situation and are demonized for every action.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 07:42:59 AM by Lustful Bride »

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 08:24:54 PM »
I find myself wondering, after doing a little more reading this week, who will get the first nuke that Iran comes out with.

Will it be Tel Aviv or will Iran nuke someplace in their other regional rival Saudi Arabia. There is a serious backroom war going on between the two nations that looks like it might not be between proxies much longer.

Offline elone

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2015, 08:30:01 AM »
Netanyahu looks like a maniac in the speech when he goes onto his 45 seconds of silence and glares at the audience. Of course this should be expected of a man responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinians. The world leaders are more silent on the overt racism we see in Israel by the right wing and the settlers than they are on any Iranian moves. He leads a country where people riot in the streets chanting "Death to Arabs". So how is this different than Iranians.

As for the United Nations, it is Israel who has violated resolution after resolution, including the ones passed in 1948 when their state was created. They have been on a long quest to rid greater Israel of Palestinians. They destroyed villages, massacred women and children, and forcibly pushed Palestinians from their land. They are still doing it.  The enact laws that are totally apartheid in nature. They steal land, resources, violate the rights of Palestinians and do so with impunity.

Israel refused to join nuclear non-proliferation, deceiving the United States and the world about their nuclear program until Vanunu exposed them. Israel bombed the USS Liberty, killing and wounding scores of US servicemen, strafing lifeboats in an effort to leave no survivors to tell the tale. Israel sent Pollard to spy on us, doing more damage to our intelligence network than anyone in history. Has Iran done any of that? Has Iran invaded their neighbors? Has Iran signed non-proliferations treaties and abided by them?

Hopefully, some day Netanyahu will be prosecuted in the International Courts as a war criminal.

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2015, 09:32:33 AM »
Netanyahu looks like a maniac in the speech when he goes onto his 45 seconds of silence and glares at the audience. Of course this should be expected of a man responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinians. The world leaders are more silent on the overt racism we see in Israel by the right wing and the settlers than they are on any Iranian moves. He leads a country where people riot in the streets chanting "Death to Arabs". So how is this different than Iranians.

As for the United Nations, it is Israel who has violated resolution after resolution, including the ones passed in 1948 when their state was created. They have been on a long quest to rid greater Israel of Palestinians. They destroyed villages, massacred women and children, and forcibly pushed Palestinians from their land. They are still doing it.  The enact laws that are totally apartheid in nature. They steal land, resources, violate the rights of Palestinians and do so with impunity.

Israel refused to join nuclear non-proliferation, deceiving the United States and the world about their nuclear program until Vanunu exposed them. Israel bombed the USS Liberty, killing and wounding scores of US servicemen, strafing lifeboats in an effort to leave no survivors to tell the tale. Israel sent Pollard to spy on us, doing more damage to our intelligence network than anyone in history. Has Iran done any of that? Has Iran invaded their neighbors? Has Iran signed non-proliferations treaties and abided by them?

Hopefully, some day Netanyahu will be prosecuted in the International Courts as a war criminal.

To be fair though, do you realy think that Iran is trustworthy? Really?
Also I think its abit na´ve to think that Iran isn't playing their own part of the great game. Im sure they have spies here as we have there. Just like every other major country in the world.

Its called the great game because everyone plays it to a degree. There are no saints among nations, only those with more or less blood on their hands. And these days its hard to tell that anymore.

(sometimes I wish I would listen to advice my father gave me when I was younger, and not talk politics. Cause im not good at it :P)

Edit (On that note, I think I am going to opt out of further convo here, before I make myself look like a bigger idiot than I probably already have. So good discussion everyone, and hope you all have a logical time. Lusty out)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 09:42:39 AM by Lustful Bride »

Offline Garuss VakarianTopic starter

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2015, 07:21:23 PM »


Quote
Netanyahu looks like a maniac in the speech when he goes onto his 45 seconds of silence and glares at the audience. Of course this should be expected of a man responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinians. The world leaders are more silent on the overt racism we see in Israel by the right wing and the settlers than they are on any Iranian moves.

Quote
The world leaders are more silent on the overt racism we see in Israel by the right wing and the settlers than they are on any Iranian moves.

Ha ha, you say this. As the left wing goes forward with vilifying Isreal, to make the Arabs look good.

Quote
He leads a country where people riot in the streets chanting "Death to Arabs". So how is this different than Iranians

Well, aside from the fact that Iranians, and other such arab countries have persecuted, enslaved, and hurt the jews for thousands of years id imagine there really is no difference. Aside from the fact, that the main reason they hate each other is over the Temple Mount, then anything else. Religious ideology. IE; Both are ignorant as fuck.

Quote
As for the United Nations, it is Israel who has violated resolution after resolution, including the ones passed in 1948 when their state was created. They have been on a long quest to rid greater Israel of Palestinians. They destroyed villages, massacred women and children, and forcibly pushed Palestinians from their land. They are still doing it.  The enact laws that are totally apartheid in nature. They steal land, resources, violate the rights of Palestinians and do so with impunity.

And so does Iran, a lot. How about Russia invading Ukrain? Isreal is not innocent, nor do they not have blood on their hands. But neither are a lot of countries. It just so happens that as you look at Benjamine as a maniac, even though he is concerned for his people from another country that openly wants Isreal dead. The real maniac, Hassan Rouhani, is laughing at how stupid we are for giving people that openly declare they will use their nukes, nukes. Not only nukes, but missiles to deliver them. Id be more concerned there, then I am with Benjamin, as Irans current deal threatens all life on earth.

Quote
Has Iran done any of that? Has Iran invaded their neighbors? Has Iran signed non-proliferations treaties and abided by them?

Ha ha, funny how your acting like one of the most intolerant and back water nations in the planet does not do any of these kinds of things. Never mind they allow factions like ISSIS to invade other countries unhindered, never mind they throw gays off buildings and stone adulterers (Of which includes rape victims.) Never mind they refused to negotiate the, AMERICAN prisoners within the deal. Yes, they refused to even discuss releasing AMERICAN prisoners. But let's also pretend that Iran does not play the 'game', as Lust so aptly put it. Also, Isreal is not openly chanting into the streets death to Isreal, death to the great satan. (Oh by the way. We are the great satan, america.) Im not saying Isreal is innocent, but you can not use their own crimes as a basis for saying we should trust Iran. Under your same logic it's like me saying, "It's ok for Isreal to bomb Palestine, because the Nazi's." It is not only redundant, but inherently ignorant.

Offline elone

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2015, 10:49:42 PM »
Actually Al-Aqsa Mosque is not he main reason for hate between Persians, Arabs, and Israeli's. There are actually thousands of Jews living in Iran and about a dozen synagogues. It is much more complicated than that. More to the point is that it is not all religious as much as it is the land. Zionism, and it inherent racism, and the belief that so much land, even beyond what we consider as Israel and the West bank and Gaza should be Israel.

The whole Iran nuclear issue is about Israel retaining exclusive control of that tool. Regional hegemony. Nothing more. Nothing less. Iran does not have any nukes, so how can they use them. Besides, it would be complete suicide for Iran, if they had nukes, to use them. Does anyone actually believe that Iran would destroy themselves in order to nuke Israel, who possess hundreds of nukes and would not hesitate to obliterate Iran from the face of the Earth. Does anyone honestly believe that the Iran nuclear deal threatens life on Earth, other than Netanyahu, of course.

And yes, the US is the great Satan. We overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and installed the Shah as dictator. We overthrew the elected Palestinian government because we did not like Hamas. We backed Saddam in a war agains Iran. We then got rid of Saddam an Gadaffi. Both bad guys, but look what it left. A middle east in disarray, death, destruction, and the rise of Al Qaeda and ISIL. We are repeating it all in Syria. So, why wouldn't the Iranians hate us?

Iran can hardly be called a backwater nation. They actually have a great history. Go to Wikipedia and read about the country and their history. I am not saying that I totally trust Iran, their leadership is bad, their record of human rights is bad. They however are anything but a backwater nation. I cringe at the thought of Netanyahu with his finger on the nuclear trigger. Who is more likely to use it, Israel with hundreds of nukes, or Iran with none? Many reports have Israel loading nukes on planes in the 1973 war when it looked like Egypt was winning. The US stepped in to help to prevent a nuclear attack by Israel.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2015, 04:38:29 AM »
Actually Al-Aqsa Mosque is not he main reason for hate between Persians, Arabs, and Israeli's. There are actually thousands of Jews living in Iran and about a dozen synagogues. It is much more complicated than that. More to the point is that it is not all religious as much as it is the land. Zionism, and it inherent racism, and the belief that so much land, even beyond what we consider as Israel and the West bank and Gaza should be Israel.

The whole Iran nuclear issue is about Israel retaining exclusive control of that tool. Regional hegemony. Nothing more. Nothing less. Iran does not have any nukes, so how can they use them. Besides, it would be complete suicide for Iran, if they had nukes, to use them. Does anyone actually believe that Iran would destroy themselves in order to nuke Israel, who possess hundreds of nukes and would not hesitate to obliterate Iran from the face of the Earth. Does anyone honestly believe that the Iran nuclear deal threatens life on Earth, other than Netanyahu, of course.

And yes, the US is the great Satan. We overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and installed the Shah as dictator. We overthrew the elected Palestinian government because we did not like Hamas. We backed Saddam in a war agains Iran. We then got rid of Saddam an Gadaffi. Both bad guys, but look what it left. A middle east in disarray, death, destruction, and the rise of Al Qaeda and ISIL. We are repeating it all in Syria. So, why wouldn't the Iranians hate us?

Iran can hardly be called a backwater nation. They actually have a great history. Go to Wikipedia and read about the country and their history. I am not saying that I totally trust Iran, their leadership is bad, their record of human rights is bad. They however are anything but a backwater nation. I cringe at the thought of Netanyahu with his finger on the nuclear trigger. Who is more likely to use it, Israel with hundreds of nukes, or Iran with none? Many reports have Israel loading nukes on planes in the 1973 war when it looked like Egypt was winning. The US stepped in to help to prevent a nuclear attack by Israel.

god I am sick of shit like this... just sick of hearing this... the sins of the past do not justify the sins of the future visited upon others.

I'd like a deal that prevents iran from getting atomic weapons, but the tech exists, and sooner or later they'll get one. The only question is will it be deterrent or will they launch at isreal and get their entire history wiped from the world as all other atomic powers glass them. The only thing we can do is slow them down and hopefully have some countermeasures ready or better yet have them maybe give up outdated grudges that will get them killed.

Offline Rex Pacis

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 08:13:57 AM »


In 2015 people still take this guy seriously? Still waiting on that nuke buddy. Pretty sure he has been saying things like this since the 80s? 90s? I was still a kid so didn't pay attention to much UN speeches back then. While we are at it you are protesting Iran building one bomb how many do you have, Mr. Netanyahu?

I really don't wanna get dragged into this either but whether you agree or not Elone has stated a lot of truth. Truth is not a matter of opinion like "If they get a nuke they'll bomb Israel and bring on nuclear destruction." Like Elone and even Wolf(somewhat) said they know it is suicide. If everyone around them has nukes why shouldn't they be allowed one? Do they not have a right to defend their borders just like Israel? I'm sure even a million ground troops pale in comparison to the destructive capability of one nuclear weapon. You know the old saying about bringing a knife to a gun fight?

I'm for the dismantling of all these weapons obviously but man fair is fair at the end of the day. People like to use phrases like radical Islam as if these people became radicalized through osmosis or something. The U.S. has played a major part in the destabilization of the region. Again not an opinion...fact. I'm sure Saddam was a terrible man but that terrible man was the dictator of a sovereign nation and it was up to his people to topple him not a U.S. led assault that was searching for terrorists and WMDs that were never found. Rouhani has seen this happen literally next door and then we have problems with him taking steps to defend his home? Now the new battle is ISIL...ISIS...whatever created from the void in power left by the toppling of Iraq. The radicals are to blame for taking advantage of the situation we created for them? When we train people to fight them and then they go off and join up with the enemy or surrender their equipment to them who is really to blame?

Just cause Israelis and Americans aren't chanting death to Iran in the streets(at least not on TV) doesn't mean that we don't ignore the crimes Israel commits everyday in Palestine and you wanna talk about sins of the past, Ironwolf? These sins are STILL being committed today. If it's not drone strikes, it's the IDF beating the crap outta Palestinians for looking at them the wrong way. But it is a problem when radicals in a group start to gain power because their people's voices have been ignored for decades? Can you not see why some Muslims might hate Israel or especially America for supporting Israel?

http://www.thenation.com/article/after-latest-incident-israels-future-fifa-uncertain/

When things like this happen you really blame people for going crazy? I know it is just soccer but this is plain sickening. Put yourself in these people's shoes. Would you not consider chopping some heads off when your people aren't even allowed to progress at something as trivial as sports?

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2015, 06:57:22 PM »


In 2015 people still take this guy seriously? Still waiting on that nuke buddy. Pretty sure he has been saying things like this since the 80s? 90s? I was still a kid so didn't pay attention to much UN speeches back then. While we are at it you are protesting Iran building one bomb how many do you have, Mr. Netanyahu?

I really don't wanna get dragged into this either but whether you agree or not Elone has stated a lot of truth. Truth is not a matter of opinion like "If they get a nuke they'll bomb Israel and bring on nuclear destruction." Like Elone and even Wolf(somewhat) said they know it is suicide. If everyone around them has nukes why shouldn't they be allowed one? Do they not have a right to defend their borders just like Israel? I'm sure even a million ground troops pale in comparison to the destructive capability of one nuclear weapon. You know the old saying about bringing a knife to a gun fight?

I'm for the dismantling of all these weapons obviously but man fair is fair at the end of the day. People like to use phrases like radical Islam as if these people became radicalized through osmosis or something. The U.S. has played a major part in the destabilization of the region. Again not an opinion...fact. I'm sure Saddam was a terrible man but that terrible man was the dictator of a sovereign nation and it was up to his people to topple him not a U.S. led assault that was searching for terrorists and WMDs that were never found. Rouhani has seen this happen literally next door and then we have problems with him taking steps to defend his home? Now the new battle is ISIL...ISIS...whatever created from the void in power left by the toppling of Iraq. The radicals are to blame for taking advantage of the situation we created for them? When we train people to fight them and then they go off and join up with the enemy or surrender their equipment to them who is really to blame?

Just cause Israelis and Americans aren't chanting death to Iran in the streets(at least not on TV) doesn't mean that we don't ignore the crimes Israel commits everyday in Palestine and you wanna talk about sins of the past, Ironwolf? These sins are STILL being committed today. If it's not drone strikes, it's the IDF beating the crap outta Palestinians for looking at them the wrong way. But it is a problem when radicals in a group start to gain power because their people's voices have been ignored for decades? Can you not see why some Muslims might hate Israel or especially America for supporting Israel?

http://www.thenation.com/article/after-latest-incident-israels-future-fifa-uncertain/

When things like this happen you really blame people for going crazy? I know it is just soccer but this is plain sickening. Put yourself in these people's shoes. Would you not consider chopping some heads off when your people aren't even allowed to progress at something as trivial as sports?

Exactly, Isreal is starting to look like any other middle eastern state these days. just one with more pro-american policies. Thank god Netanyahu almost lost his last election, and will likely loose the next. Much like the rest of the world the up and coming younger generation is far more progressive. I hope they tackle the injustices going on there, many opposed to netanyahu want to reverse these policies. Their strength is growing.
But I want to see how that plays out... he hasn't responded violently to these challenges as far as I can tell.

Iran however responded to growing progressive ideas within it's own borders by cracking down and shooting it's own people.

Also as I said I want the nuke deal with iran, just wish the republican party hadn't kicked the stool out from under our diplomats so they could've gotten a stronger more transparent deal. But they undermined negations at a critical moment, and like any diplomat the iranian representatives pushed for a better deal for their side.

It pisses me off that older generations screwed up the middle east and sort of just dumped the whole thing on their kids. Then I get to hear 80 year old chicken hawks screaming when we try to use words instead of bombs for once.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 07:01:39 PM by Ironwolf85 »

Offline Rex Pacis

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2015, 10:13:33 AM »
Forgot all about that term, Wolf. Chicken Hawk is right. I say we gear up half the Congress and ship'em out. See how quickly they change their minds about pulling out of the Middle East.

Though at this point it is kind of our mess unfortunately.  :-\


More truth than I hear from most politicians now a days. -sigh-

Online Vergil Tanner

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2015, 11:21:23 AM »
Ok, just dropping in quickly, because it seems like very few people actually understand the nature of the Iran Nuclear Deal. I think it was Ironwolf who said that he wanted to see a deal that stopped Iran getting a nuke...well...that's exactly what this deal does. My apologies if I'm misinterpreting, but just from reading the comments, it seems like everybody is under the impression that this deal accelerates the Iranian nuclear program when that just....isn't the case.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/full-text-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal/1651/

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/31/world/middleeast/simple-guide-nuclear-talks-iran-us.html

This deal isn't giving Iran a nuke, it's curtailing their ability to get one. I'm not gonna offer any opinions either way on this, but it would help if more people actually...y'know....read the deal.

Similarly, I do agree that whilst Iran isn't exactly a nice fluffy happy place, everybody seems content to ignore the shit that Israel has pulled and the fact that they definitely have blood on their hands. They're both as bad as each other.


Also: On the "Death To America" chants...was it distasteful? Yes. Do the American news networks do ANY differently when talking about foreign nations, especially in the Middle East? No. You have politicians and news anchors actively advocating invading and bombing and whatnot.
Plus, can you REALLY blame them for disliking America? Come on. With the amount of shit America has pulled even in the last twenty to thirty years, is it any wonder that nobody really likes America anymore? I don't dislike Americans, but I do dislike America. There's a reason why recent polls have shown that America is widely considered the biggest threat to world peace in the world today....no smoke without fire, as they say. I don't agree with them chanting "death to America" and actively advocating violence against America, but come on. With the stuff the American government has done in regards to the rest of the world in the last fifty years, can you really blame them for disliking America? Really?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 11:26:00 AM by Vergil Tanner »

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2015, 03:37:15 AM »
Ok, just dropping in quickly, because it seems like very few people actually understand the nature of the Iran Nuclear Deal. I think it was Ironwolf who said that he wanted to see a deal that stopped Iran getting a nuke...well...that's exactly what this deal does. My apologies if I'm misinterpreting, but just from reading the comments, it seems like everybody is under the impression that this deal accelerates the Iranian nuclear program when that just....isn't the case.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/full-text-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal/1651/

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/31/world/middleeast/simple-guide-nuclear-talks-iran-us.html

This deal isn't giving Iran a nuke, it's curtailing their ability to get one. I'm not gonna offer any opinions either way on this, but it would help if more people actually...y'know....read the deal.

Similarly, I do agree that whilst Iran isn't exactly a nice fluffy happy place, everybody seems content to ignore the shit that Israel has pulled and the fact that they definitely have blood on their hands. They're both as bad as each other.


Also: On the "Death To America" chants...was it distasteful? Yes. Do the American news networks do ANY differently when talking about foreign nations, especially in the Middle East? No. You have politicians and news anchors actively advocating invading and bombing and whatnot.
Plus, can you REALLY blame them for disliking America? Come on. With the amount of shit America has pulled even in the last twenty to thirty years, is it any wonder that nobody really likes America anymore? I don't dislike Americans, but I do dislike America. There's a reason why recent polls have shown that America is widely considered the biggest threat to world peace in the world today....no smoke without fire, as they say. I don't agree with them chanting "death to America" and actively advocating violence against America, but come on. With the stuff the American government has done in regards to the rest of the world in the last fifty years, can you really blame them for disliking America? Really?

The deal accomplishes it's goal, just wish we had been able to get a better deal overall ya'know.
Also I think Fox is basically the worst thing influencing people about our international relations and domestic policy... I could list a lot of the crap they pull, but we'd be here all night.

My worry is some political player like the now former president ahamahardtospellname will come to power at some point and do somthing extremely stupid. I Hope that whoever is elected president in the US isn't that stupid either.

I do support isreal's right to exist and it's right to defend itself, but I think Netanyahu's party is basicly embracing their far right to try and retain power much like the republicans did in 2008. (going from right wing to extreme right wing)

Online Vergil Tanner

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2015, 05:05:30 AM »
True, but I have a feeling that this is the best they can do; remember, a good compromise leaves nobody satisfied, haha.
Oh, I know, right? Although, to be fair to them, they're not the MOST right-wing group in existence. I distinctly remember O'Reilly of all people saying to Trump something along the lines of "Woah, dude, pump the brakes, you're going a bit too far" when he was talking about getting rid of citizenship-by-birth. XD

That's definitely a possibility, but unfortunately, America's interference is more likely to lead to that scenario than if America left well enough alone. I mean, if they interfere too much with international politics, those countries populaces will start to resent America, and vote in an anti-American president. And then the CIA might try to overthrow him, and then the whole cycle starts again. >.>
Personally, in the American elections, I'm pulling for Bernie Sanders. He looks like he has his head screwed on straight, he's very progressive, he has loads of experience and he has a history of doing exactly what he says he will. Plus, unlike Clinton, he actively advocates NOT getting involved in other countries nonsense, whereas Clinton is all for increasing military intervention. Plus, she has a history of doing the opposite of what she says she will and her campaign is funded by large corporations, so I don't trust her. *shrug* And hey, recent polls have shown that Sanders is actually a GE threat...he could do it, which I'm seriously hoping he does.

Oh, I agree there. Israel has a right to exist, BUT Israel and Iran both need to cool their jets and stop being such warmongering pricks.

Of course, whilst Israel has a right to exist, I think that a lot of the issues in Iraq could be solved by dividing it into three different countries. The issues there stem from Sunni/Shia/Kurd tensions and violence, so split Iraq into three countries and say "Sunni's, this is yours, Shia, this one is yours, Kurds, this one is yours," and then enforce international law via the UN and a DMZ between all three of them....whilst the problem isn't solved, it does help stabilise them internally and hopefully reduce the constant cross-group violence. The West kinda screwed the pooch a bit in the Middle East....
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 05:06:40 AM by Vergil Tanner »

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2015, 06:15:08 AM »
Of course, whilst Israel has a right to exist, I think that a lot of the issues in Iraq could be solved by dividing it into three different countries. The issues there stem from Sunni/Shia/Kurd tensions and violence, so split Iraq into three countries and say "Sunni's, this is yours, Shia, this one is yours, Kurds, this one is yours," and then enforce international law via the UN and a DMZ between all three of them....whilst the problem isn't solved, it does help stabilise them internally and hopefully reduce the constant cross-group violence. The West kinda screwed the pooch a bit in the Middle East....
I strongly doubt that would improve things, as splitting the country into three parts would require massive resettlement of large population groups. The "they stole my land" resentments and hate this will foster is bound to make things worse (if that's possible). You might be able to split off the Kurdish territories in the North of Iraq, but even there you have mixed areas. If you remove the Sunni and Shia from there you'd have to move them into a part of the country that is even less safe than the Kurdish North, and they would not like that very much. Plus, Turkey will fight tooth and nails against anything remotely resembling a true Kurdish state.

Online Vergil Tanner

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2015, 06:35:10 AM »
Oh, I'm under no illusions that it would cause a whole host of new issues, but at least it's a start; once they have their independent states they can start actually making some social and economic progress, rather than fighting amongst each other for control. At this point it's gone on too long for there to be a "clean" option, so I reckon that the issues caused by splitting them up are less serious than keeping them together, since I doubt they'll ever really work things out. At least if you split them up, you then have borders you can police and international law you can enforce. At the moment, it's a internal civil dispute that's a lot harder to stop from escalating into violence. it's not a perfect solution, but it's the best I think we're gonna get, in all honesty.

Also, Turkey is indirectly helping ISIS and arresting journalists for no reason. Fuck what Turkey wants. XD

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Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2015, 08:45:19 AM »
Oh, I'm under no illusions that it would cause a whole host of new issues, but at least it's a start; once they have their independent states they can start actually making some social and economic progress, rather than fighting amongst each other for control. At this point it's gone on too long for there to be a "clean" option, so I reckon that the issues caused by splitting them up are less serious than keeping them together, since I doubt they'll ever really work things out. At least if you split them up, you then have borders you can police and international law you can enforce. At the moment, it's a internal civil dispute that's a lot harder to stop from escalating into violence. it's not a perfect solution, but it's the best I think we're gonna get, in all honesty.

Also, Turkey is indirectly helping ISIS and arresting journalists for no reason. Fuck what Turkey wants. XD

I think Turkey doesn't know what turkey wants >.>
Or rather political factions want diffrent things and are being backstabby dicks to each other about it from within.

Online Vergil Tanner

Re: Netanyahu newest UN speech.
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2015, 03:00:29 PM »
It's so much easier to not care when you don't care what Turkey wants :P And I have a feeling that the Kurds are gonna get bent over a pommel horse and fucked with a spiked 12-incher either way.