You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 09, 2016, 07:47:49 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check  (Read 2426 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Winter King

  • Scholar of Peace and Mysticism
  • Lord
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Location: At the highest peak of Being, and in the lowest depths of Nonexistence
  • Gender: Male
  • Never accept the inevitability of violence
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2015, 04:32:18 PM »
Well, let's try our own tests before attempting to rebalance things, yes? I mean, the thing I understand is that at this point in time, very few people have had the chance to fully explore the system and all its myriad tactics. I'm just really reluctant to call anything obviously unbalanced yet - I know others are doing so on various places on the internet, but I'm not keen on doing so because I do not really know the deeper implications of the system.

I feel like, as I wrote before, a lot of the perceived "weirdness" in 3e is from the specter of 2e's flaws - people are worried and making mountains of molehills, so to speak. People are overfocusing on the mechanics because they're perilously afraid - out of habit, mostly - that the mechanics are going to screw up the stories they want to tell. Maybe the mechanics will do that, but I think, from what I've seen of them and having never used them yet, that 3e's mechanics are far less likely to break stories you want to try to tell than 2e's were. I mean, the 3e mechanics may not support your story fully, depending on your ST and what story you want to tell, but even then I feel that they're better off than 2e's because, so far as I can tell, you've not got a similar "mess up one stat buy and you die 100% of the time" factor. Even in the example ChaoticSky's given us, I'm not sure that it's really quite true, because I recall that the devs have said several times that 3e's combat is really not ideal for representing a 1x1 "white room" battle, under any circumstances, let alone the ones described.

Well, in any case, I think my opinion on the matter's clear enough, so I'll stop here, but I still feel like trying to fix the system is premature, and will likely result in weirder issues raising their heads down the line, but I understand why people are looking to do this.

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #151 on: October 28, 2015, 05:00:47 PM »
This is why i was lukewarm to Vek's idea of using the Brutal Merit... since all that would do is force people to pay even more (merit or bonus points), on top of a higher attribute investment, while not even truely bringing it to par... let alone rising you up the way youd expect from such a heavy investment.

Two important things.

1) The most important thing is that it needs to be balanced towards the optimized build. Brutal Solar has Increasing Strength Exercise - a scene-long die adder. I'm mostly not sure where to place it, point cost wise. At least you can't bunnyhop any longer.

2) I don't want to go with 'higher of strength or dex' because strength-based builds and strategies should genuinely, truly be their own thing, with their own unique flavor. A player interested in it may need to convince me of some Charms, but for now I want to see a few combats - thus my other thread on this. I may run an Exalted Arena on World Unbent to properly analyze this sort of thing, summon Exalted fans from Reddit and Onyx Path.

My primary concern is it looks like the devs have addressed some of the prior issues with Strength builds. I would like to see what tricks people might miss in their tests, for example.

After a few, I'll introduce a Brutal merit at some dot level, and see how it plays out.


Online Thufir Hawat

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #152 on: October 28, 2015, 08:48:57 PM »
Eep. As I am given to understand it, MA and Brawl were balanced with the assumption that they wouldn't be able to be combined.
No, there are already Brawl Charms that can enhance MA. The balance, I'm pretty sure, comes from only allowing certain effects to combine with MA, and not random combinations between any MA and any Brawl charms.
Besides, MA have never been the overpowered option, for any splat except maybe Sidereals, and then only on higher essence than most groups were likely to ever reach.

Mostly, ChaoticSky is right, and I would have fully expected that test's outcome mostly without looking. Strength builds aren't going to be on par with Dexterity builds even if you could attack with Strength, unless you can also at least parry with Strength. Then and only then, Strength might come ahead due to Increasing Strength Exercise and the like. If the Dex guy has reasonable access to unblockable attacks, I'd expect us being back to at least parity.

As for houserules, I wouldn't be surprised. That's a game where people have told the developers that something is causing problems at their tables, only to be met with "that's how it should work". As an example, advancement rules possibly causing up to 135 XP disparity between different concepts is obviously fine, just play the concepts that the system rewards.
And it's a game that historically relied on a combination of houserules and GM fiat :P.
Let's say the combination of these two isn't conducive to the game being run RAW ;D!

Online AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2015, 08:58:30 PM »
My concerns are rather simple to point out with the Dexterity deal:

We know from 2e that Dex is slightly better, and if Withering attacks did direct damage, we'd more or less have something identical to what we used to have.  Dexterity would be slightly better, but not significantly so.

With decisive attacks, we still use Dexterity for attack and defense, but we don't use Strength or Stamina.  In effect, Dexterity is now even MORE powerful.

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #154 on: October 28, 2015, 09:10:13 PM »
The damage of Decisive attacks depends on your strength, stamina, weapons and armour, though. It's just happening in a roundabout way, because they help you get initiative via withering attacks.
Overall, I'd expect to see Stamina and Strength being slightly more powerful than before, but still nowhere near parity with Dexterity.

Online AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #155 on: October 28, 2015, 09:14:37 PM »
Here's the issue: in a balanced system, a high Strength low Dexterity character is going to hit less often, but those hits are going to matter more.

Not only do you have to do lots of hits of Withering to build up Initiative, but you have to choose when you're going to go Decisive and make sure those hit, or lose initiative per failure.

You also have that Strength is only good for adding to raw Withering damage, Stamina is only good for Soak, but Dexterity is good for withering attacks, decisive attacks, and defense.

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #156 on: October 28, 2015, 11:14:54 PM »
I have finished a dieroller for Exalted on Legends of a World Unbent: http://worldunbent.com/forums/index.php?topic=219.msg1728#msg1728

Offline Winter King

  • Scholar of Peace and Mysticism
  • Lord
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Location: At the highest peak of Being, and in the lowest depths of Nonexistence
  • Gender: Male
  • Never accept the inevitability of violence
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #157 on: October 29, 2015, 11:17:49 AM »
Okay, now I'm actually kind of debating whether or not to open up a thread as a preliminary preparation sort of thing - solely so that would-be players and I could hammer out character concepts and focus in more on what we wanted from the game. Not going to quite yet - probably later today, but I'll put a link here when I finish.

Just because it's been out for a week, and while I'm (definitely) not looking to start for another week or so, I'd like to open discussions about the game.

Now that I think about it, though, I have a couple of questions for my fellow would-be STs and players:

Do we have a final consensus on whether we want it to be a living world?

And do we have anyone else who would be inclined to doing this via a chat or something like it, or would we rather focus on PbP?

Online Lockepick

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #158 on: October 29, 2015, 11:25:00 AM »
Personally: I'd rather PbP, but I'd be willing to do a chat based game if the schedule worked.

Online AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #159 on: October 29, 2015, 01:33:53 PM »
My issue with PbP is that combat will take months.

As far as living world, no real opinion.

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #160 on: October 29, 2015, 04:51:01 PM »
Well, I just can't make the chat sessions. Obviously that leaves the PbP for me.
I'd prefer a Living campaign, but it's up to the GM to decide that.

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #161 on: October 29, 2015, 05:18:40 PM »
Arena character generation rules are up, the intent is mostly to get familiar with the system.

The Exalted dieroller, /secret and /reveal commands that I wrote should cover most everything needed for the system.

Offline Muse

  • Bibliopheliac -- Luna's Arcangel -- PiP's Sidhe Lord -- Karasu's Heartthrob -- Tyloka's Dragon -- Mistress Voluptuouss's Hand Bra -- Making Allanger Welcome at her Destination
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Chasing unicorns in the Moonwood.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 6
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2015, 05:50:08 PM »
  I favor p laybypost as well.  It's hard for me to get to real time games. 

Offline Winter King

  • Scholar of Peace and Mysticism
  • Lord
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Location: At the highest peak of Being, and in the lowest depths of Nonexistence
  • Gender: Male
  • Never accept the inevitability of violence
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #163 on: October 29, 2015, 06:27:35 PM »
My issue with PbP is that combat will take months.
I think that you might be surprised. From what I've read (mind, this may be a unique experience) most of the combats only take about 3 rounds. That said, I'm not sure of the context of those combats, so you may well be right to be concerned. All that said - I feel like my own tendencies are to enjoy noncombat activities more than combat activities, so unless the characters are really dumb, they can probably get away without combat for awhile. But perhaps that's not desirable, I'm not sure.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #164 on: October 29, 2015, 06:28:22 PM »
Pbp, though im also up for chat if the timing works.

Living world, because that way enforces some variety on the game's settings.

Offline Winter King

  • Scholar of Peace and Mysticism
  • Lord
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Location: At the highest peak of Being, and in the lowest depths of Nonexistence
  • Gender: Male
  • Never accept the inevitability of violence
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #165 on: October 30, 2015, 09:33:29 AM »

Online AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #166 on: October 31, 2015, 08:27:45 PM »
Anyone besides Winter King starting up a game?

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #167 on: November 01, 2015, 03:05:44 AM »
I would hope all non-closed games shall be announced in this thread.

Offline HairyHereticTopic starter

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #168 on: November 01, 2015, 06:11:18 AM »
I figure I will get a game going at some point, but I'm a little busy at present, and still haven't had a decent read through the full rules yet.

Still tempted to run a Return of the Scarlett Empress campaign though :)

Online AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #169 on: November 01, 2015, 09:16:29 AM »
I could gladly try out Return of the Scarlet Empress.  I know the basics OOC but have never played through the actual story.

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #170 on: November 01, 2015, 10:42:31 AM »
Finishing up a 3rd Edition character sheet for the wiki, as well as an interface for my dieroller.

The game proper won't start until the full pdf is available for people though.

Offline RSGAlex

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #171 on: November 01, 2015, 10:59:11 AM »
If anyone wants an excel sheet base, I altered one I collaborated with a friend on and it seems to be working fine. I'll be meeting with 'em soon, and can ask 'em to enable sharing on it.

Or, more likely, get him to say that I can just go in and do the changes myself.

Offline Empyrean

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #172 on: November 01, 2015, 02:13:19 PM »
A Return of the Scarlet Empress game? Would we be starting as new Solars in that setting?

Offline HairyHereticTopic starter

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #173 on: November 01, 2015, 04:27:01 PM »
That's part of what I'm trying to work out. I'm thinking it would be better run with, and might even need, more powerful characters. I'll still trying to figure out how doable it is.

Offline Muse

  • Bibliopheliac -- Luna's Arcangel -- PiP's Sidhe Lord -- Karasu's Heartthrob -- Tyloka's Dragon -- Mistress Voluptuouss's Hand Bra -- Making Allanger Welcome at her Destination
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Chasing unicorns in the Moonwood.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 6
Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #174 on: November 01, 2015, 06:14:53 PM »
I figure I will get a game going at some point, but I'm a little busy at present, and still haven't had a decent read through the full rules yet.

Still tempted to run a Return of the Scarlett Empress campaign though :)

*poucne!* 
 
Please please please let me play, Hairy?  I've held off reading that book for YEARS in hopes someone would run it for me!