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Author Topic: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check  (Read 2413 times)

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Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #125 on: October 27, 2015, 04:20:34 AM »
For mortals, yes.

Arete-Shifting Prana lets you spend motes to temporarily get levels in craft that are conceptually related to craft that you have.

Supreme Celestial Focus lets you spend your mountain of crafting experience on raising craft skills. You can build up to 1 + your Essence in skills this way.

The 'optimal' thing to do is to just take one Craft skill at five - it should be one you want to make artifacts with. You use Supreme Celestial Focus to build up (Artifice), and later after you have ridiculous quantities of gold crafting experience, buy up other Craft skills you want to do artifice with.

Starting with two or more craft skills at five let you boot into artifice faster - a lot faster - but of course it's not 'xp optimal' because of SCF.

The game is filled with lots of various things like that though. It's almost a trope.

Online Changingsaint

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #126 on: October 27, 2015, 04:44:18 AM »
That does make it better for solars, I just don't like crafting as it was done in 3e, but I might warm up to it in time!

by the by as an addendum, For anyone not reading kill 6 billion demons, you should. Fairly exalted in feel, and Throne very much reminds me of Malfeas. Check it out!

Offline AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #127 on: October 27, 2015, 01:22:14 PM »
Skimming over Crafting, I don't see the point of the XP.

If I want to craft a Daiklaive, I need to craft a buttload of swords?  What for?

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #128 on: October 27, 2015, 02:00:24 PM »
I think I'm in agreement with the people who want to drop 'experience' from the term. So I'll just use silver/gold/luminous points (because 'white' points are also ugh).

Points are an abstraction of leftover materials, idle products, random inspiration, and the logistical support you've built for yourself. It's those unspoken odd things you can define as you roleplay, but do not have any pure mechanical inspiration. It's divided into three levels, like much of the game is, I think to represent the different qualities of such resources. Silver is your most common ideas, most ready materials. Luminous would be your most fantastic moments of inspiration. That perfectly spun strand of orichalcum thread you made but have yet to find a worthy use for.

Offline AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #129 on: October 27, 2015, 02:02:55 PM »
I think I would have gone with bronze/copper as the lowest level of the tier.

So, question about MA that isn't clear to me.  Can you just not combine the Charms in a combo, or how does that work?  It says they're incompatible, but that feels a little vague to me.

Online RSGAlex

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #130 on: October 27, 2015, 02:48:39 PM »
There's three main components to putting MA charms in a combo. First, the attack has to be using the right kind of weapon. You can't have both a Snake style attack enhancer and a Righteous Devil attack enhancer in the same combo because there's no common weapon.

The second is that if you're going outside multiple styles, the charm needs to say that it can be used with the charms of other types (or vice-versa). So just because you have two weapons in your hands, unless one of the two says that they work with other abilities, you can't use both a Melee defense and a Righteous Devil defense charm to bolster your defense. Now you could use a Melee defense charm and a Righteous Devil attack charm, because those are both doing different things.

The last one only applies if you're using multiple styles, and it's that if you're wearing armor that you can use one style in, but not the other, well, you can combine the charms, but while you're in that armor you can't use one of the style's charms.

Offline AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #131 on: October 27, 2015, 02:51:04 PM »
I mean in terms of other abilities, like Melee.

Can I attack with Martial Arts and defend with Melee, for example?

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #132 on: October 27, 2015, 02:52:05 PM »
Someone else suggested iron, but yeah. Main concern is an improper search and replace. I'm not convinced their editing staff knows their regexes.

Combos are a thing of the past. Well, paying for them anyway, you'll probably want to organize them as such. Supplemental Charms can only supplement actions of their respective Ability unless explicitly stated, and Reflexive Charms work similarly. A single action can only involve Charms from a single Ability, unless the Charm states otherwise.

Basically it's stating outright that Martial Arts is in most respect its own Ability, and not related to Brawl or other combat Abilities, and thus you cannot e.g. supplement Brawl attacks with MA charms or vice-versa.

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #133 on: October 27, 2015, 02:52:56 PM »
I mean in terms of other abilities, like Melee.

Can I attack with Martial Arts and defend with Melee, for example?

As long as you don't use Melee Charms in your attacks or MA Charms in your defensive actions, yes.

Online RSGAlex

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #134 on: October 27, 2015, 02:53:42 PM »
Yeah, my reading goes along with Vekseid's. You can attack with MA and defend with Melee, but you can't use both to attack or both to defend unless at least one of the charms there says it can be used with charms of other abilities or with rolls of other abilities.

Online ShadowFox89

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #135 on: October 27, 2015, 02:56:41 PM »
 Maybe we should set up a general discussion thread for Exalted :P

 So from what I've been reading... there's the idea of a living campaign? With the number of people we have, that'll easily get to Big Group status fast....

Offline Lockepick

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #136 on: October 27, 2015, 03:14:33 PM »
Updated Current Listing:
Please post here or PM me if I made a mistake on your 'category', or if you need to be added to any list (including GMs who also want to play).
(Last Communication entails the last time the person said something about wanting to run or play -- not the last time they've made ANY post.)

Intending to GM
|
Last Communication
|
Details
|
Status of Game
HairyHereticPost Backer ReleaseNo Confirmed Details0 / ? Players
Winter KingPost Backer ReleaseNo Confirmed Details0 / ? Players
VekseidPost Backer ReleaseNo Confirmed Details0 / ? Players

Intending to Play | Last Communication |
Status
LockepickPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
ChaoticSkyPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
Thufir HawatPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
EmpyreanPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
ChaingingSaintPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
AndyZPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
RSGAlexPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
Black HowlingPre Backer ReleaseNo Games
MusePre Backer ReleaseNo Games
PocketsPre Backer ReleaseNo Games
CrashPost Backer ReleaseNo Games
ShadowFox89Post Backer ReleaseNo Games

Others (Not sure if they have interest or are just discussing rules):
Riveda   Jefepato   Datawych
Plot HooksTFcommando

Somebody mentioned 'number of people', so I thought I'd offer some specifics! Right now we're looking at 3 GMs and 12 Players. This again, doesn't count GMs who ALSO want to play, or PCs that are in multiple games -- which is why I'm not making any claims like "4 PCs per GM! Perfect!".

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #137 on: October 27, 2015, 05:49:08 PM »
I think the crafting XP should have been named silver/god/platinum to match the D&D coin values, since you're using them to pay for crafting stuff anyways.

Martial Arts can be improved with Brawl Charms that say they can, and some of those are very nice. What I really want to know is whether you can combine usually non-combat skills like Athletics, and Martial Arts.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #138 on: October 27, 2015, 09:35:53 PM »
Also, on the subject of houserules, how does everyone else feel about one idea i ran across; allowing people to use the higher of str or dex for hit-rolls? To make non-Dex builds more viable/comparable to Dex-focused ones?

Offline AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #139 on: October 27, 2015, 09:37:10 PM »
I think I'd be good for that with non-light brawl and melee weapons.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #140 on: October 27, 2015, 09:50:21 PM »
I think I'd be good for that with non-light brawl and melee weapons.
Probably a good caveat, would have to be thematically appropriate. Brawl: Heavy blows vs prancy bullshit, Melee: Reavers vs Reapers, for example.

Attacks should be described in terms of the stat you use.

Offline AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #141 on: October 27, 2015, 09:51:42 PM »
It occurs to me that Brawl is always Unarmed Light, so you'd want to stunt it to that effect.  Even so, no argument that Dex is overpowered.

Offline Vekseid

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #142 on: October 27, 2015, 10:00:23 PM »
Also, on the subject of houserules, how does everyone else feel about one idea i ran across; allowing people to use the higher of str or dex for hit-rolls? To make non-Dex builds more viable/comparable to Dex-focused ones?

I'm thinking of allowing the Brutal merit, for Brawl and medium/heavy melee, but there's the question of its interaction with ISE. Not that that's new.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #143 on: October 27, 2015, 10:05:22 PM »
It occurs to me that Brawl is always Unarmed Light, so you'd want to stunt it to that effect.  Even so, no argument that Dex is overpowered.
Heresy i say! The true essence of martial arts is a wide stance and a heavy fist! *hammy pose!*

Theres nothing light about that.  They are thinking about those prancy kung fu styles where the guy balances on a leaf.

But yea... thats my argument anyway.

(ooh ninja'd by Vekseid. Mind you, i dislike the notion of having to pay for game balance, but ill take it over imbalance)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 10:06:42 PM by ChaoticSky »

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #144 on: October 28, 2015, 01:58:44 AM »
Also, on the subject of houserules, how does everyone else feel about one idea i ran across; allowing people to use the higher of str or dex for hit-rolls? To make non-Dex builds more viable/comparable to Dex-focused ones?
There are Brawl Charms that allow Str+Brawl attacks, like Devil-Strangling Attitude. They are also a vital part of the Brawl tree from which are starting different branches, so I'd advise against removing them.
IMO, it's much simpler, and thus preferable, to create such a Charm for Melee, and make the Brawl Charms explicitly able to enhance Martial Arts.

Offline Winter King

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Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #145 on: October 28, 2015, 07:17:56 AM »
IMO, it's much simpler, and thus preferable, to create such a Charm for Melee, and make the Brawl Charms explicitly able to enhance Martial Arts.

Eep. As I am given to understand it, MA and Brawl were balanced with the assumption that they wouldn't be able to be combined.

For myself, I'm reluctant to start house ruling things before we even start playing - the rules were written one way with extensive play testing, so I'd like to do some of my own play testing before screwing around with stuff and potentially making problems happen. Part of this is also simply because I know how much of the mechanical wariness of players comes from 2e's legacy, where you could get 1-hit because you had mismanaged your experience spending and the other guy hadn't. I'm more interested in seeing what we can do to make an interesting and fun story than playing around with the mechanics before we really get to trying them.

Mind, I understand why people are so wary, as I said, but I'm personally inclined to trust the devs, at least until I try the system out in truth myself.

Offline Lockepick

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #146 on: October 28, 2015, 07:55:49 AM »
I agree with Winter King.

Again, I'm a filthy whore for games, so I'll play in a game regardless -- but I am a little surprised at the volume of House Rules people are suggesting so early in the game's life. Though I have no idea how long people have had the rules before the Backer Release, or how much testing has been done.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 10:32:07 AM by lockepick »

Offline Plot Hooks

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #147 on: October 28, 2015, 10:24:51 AM »
^ What he said.

For one, you can buy Martial Arts with Solar XP, which is *huge*.    With any luck, you cold potentially pick up a Martial Arts charm every session. I don't think you really need to be able to further augment it with Brawl.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 10:32:58 AM by Plot Hooks »

Offline AndyZ

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #148 on: October 28, 2015, 02:14:35 PM »
The setting idea I've considered for a while likely won't be set for a while, as I've got too much burning in my brain right now to settle out an entire story.  However, that will hopefully change in the coming weeks.

My idea is simple, if unfleshed.  In the First Age, five Solars ruled and protected a particular area/city.  It'd be a custom setting that isn't fleshed out in the books to any significant degree, primarily designed by the five people that would end up playing in it.

The premise is likewise simple: regain the allies who still remain, remove any current leadership, and then hold it against any and all incoming hordes.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: 3rd ed Exalted, provisional interest check
« Reply #149 on: October 28, 2015, 04:08:25 PM »
Also fair points, though its also worth pointing out that i didnt meant to imply mixing brawl with MA... I'm just trying to put a quick and simple fix out there for a glaring imbalance.

I realize we havnt done any play testing here, and perhaps results will pan out differently, but from what ive been reading from people who have been doing playtests (on reddit for example), Dex is a combat god stat to the point that you either make a dex build... or your doing it wrong.. One playtest i read had a GM pit two players against each other, one making a Dex based character (four points on Dex, to max it at 5, str and sta 1) vs a Str/Sta based character (four points on str and sta to max them both at 5, dex 1). Which by the way, is twice the attribute investment, eight points in physical attributes vs four. Added related abilities like Dodge/Resistence, and suitable charms.... and it was no contest. The Dex char won every single time. So he switched them, Dexguy made the Str/Sta char and Str/sta guy made a dexchar. But the results where the same.

One proposal that came out of that discussion, was to allow the use of the higher of Str or Dex for attack rolls, thereby making str more competitive. In execution this did not correct the imbalance, merely made it less extreme and gave str/sta builds a fighting chance.

This is why i was lukewarm to Vek's idea of using the Brutal Merit... since all that would do is force people to pay even more (merit or bonus points), on top of a higher attribute investment, while not even truely bringing it to par... let alone rising you up the way youd expect from such a heavy investment.

Now you can say thats just the choice that people like me who preferr to be titans rather than leaves on the wind have to make, accepting suboptimality for the sake of a concept, and im fine with that.... I used to play a Raksha instead of a Exalt when i could get away with it, but thats not a notion ill accept as long as there are reasonable options otherwise.


Of course, all this may be moot if the poster was a troll or something, or maybe neither of his players really knew how to work a str/sta build properly. I look forward to seeing how our own tests play out. But if they are anything like what ive seen described, then allowing str might be the least we can do.

Again, I'm a filthy whore for games, so I'll play in a game regardless -- but I am a little surprised at the volume of House Rules people are suggesting so early in the game's life. Though I have no idea how long people have had the rules before the Backer Release, or how much testing has been done.
Pretty much this, like 80%+ of the discussion oveer 3E is in developing houserules to work around the weridness in Exalted 3E, and the reason for this is simple; People playtested the game during development, they submitted solutions to all these problems.... and the devs decided that those solutions didnt fit their vision for the game. The crafting system, some combat oddities, scaling Exp costs, etc. This was all known before and they simply decided they like it as-is and rejected all attempts to fix this stuff prior to release. Its becoming abit of a habit with them, they did the same thing with Beast (pretty much ignored all advice between the playtest and backer editions)

So now everyone is mostly interested in how to fix it ourselves, fortunately, as Exalted players, we have alot of experience at this.