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Author Topic: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8  (Read 8648 times)

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Offline Trieste

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2008, 06:31:24 PM »
The problem with likening pedophilia to gay marriage is that it's comparing apples and oranges - and also rehashing an argument that was made against interracial marriages. Really, you didn't see dogs marrying cats and chaos in the streets after interracial marriage was allowed. Why would you then see it when allowing same-sex marriage?

Instituting civil unions for those gay people over there and marriage for the properly hetero people over here has also been proven wrong - or did you forget the spectacular failure of separate-but-equal in 20th-century southern America? There really is no religious issue, since churches have full control over their parishes and can choose without anyone's interference to allow or disallow gay marriage in their own little worlds. Nobody can interfere with that. It is sacrosanct. What is at stake here is not the afterlife, but civil rights under the law, which is supposed to be separate from any one church. Considering that some (Christian!) churches are allowing gay marriage and some are not, this is a bit of a problem. Christianity itself is difficult to extricate from our government - consider all the religious symbols on our money, for chrissake. But in my personal opinion, the governments are cherry-picking the choice of church... which is wrong.

As far as I'm concerned, let men marry men and women marry women. If you're really all that concerned about it, drop a grant for a research study or twelve. Hungry grad students everywhere will be very grateful.

However, what makes Prop 8 hairy is that the prior law that was on the books was passed by the state Supreme Court. Prop 8 itself was passed due to popular vote. As far as I am concerned, popular vote should trump a court ruling any day of the week - which means that I fully support the decision in California to amend their constitution. Both sides fought very hard, but there had to be a loser, and neither side was going to be happy with losing. The population of California has spoken, though. State legislators should listen.

As for the Mormon church, though, I believe that they need to realise (as Hairy said earlier) that they made a national movement very, very angry. If they didn't know they were going to do so, they are idiots. Thus, they chose to campaign, and now they are getting decisive feedback from the community against which they chose to agitate. Suck it up and deal.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 02:19:40 AM »
Locking to split.

Also, I didn't read this thread nearly closely enough. There's nothing in policy here that say's we need to tolerate bigotry.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 02:49:46 AM »
Unlocked. Please continue discussions regarding gay marriage specifically in the new thread.

This thread is for the boycott, Mormonism's tax exempt status, proposition 8 itself and similar topics that are (somewhat) separate from the more heated issue.

Offline Jefepato

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 04:04:58 PM »
However, what makes Prop 8 hairy is that the prior law that was on the books was passed by the state Supreme Court. Prop 8 itself was passed due to popular vote. As far as I am concerned, popular vote should trump a court ruling any day of the week - which means that I fully support the decision in California to amend their constitution. Both sides fought very hard, but there had to be a loser, and neither side was going to be happy with losing. The population of California has spoken, though. State legislators should listen.

Our government was designed to prevent the majority from voting away the minority's rights.  That's why we have three branches and a list of enumerated rights instead of just a straight-up popular vote for everything -- the California Supreme Court was just doing its job.

Proposition 8 is in unambiguous violation of the United States Constitution, specifically the Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause, and is therefore improper law no matter how many people support it.  Hopefully the Supreme Court will see this simple truth, though I'm not terribly optimistic, considering that even Lawrence v. Texas had three dissenters.

Online Oniya

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 04:23:34 PM »
I had to look it up again, but how is allowing someone to get married 'abridg[ing] the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; [...] depriv[ing] any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; [or] deny[ing] to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.'?  (full text here.)

Offline Apple of Eris

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2008, 06:39:07 PM »
I can easily be argued that denying marriage rights denies equal protection by not allowing gay couples to have the same rights as married couples.

For example not all states offer civil unions, and som ethat offer civil unions don't offer equal rights as compared to married couples (visitation rights to hospitals, benefits, etc, etc.). Then you could see the example of Arkansas in that they now have restriced adoption only to married couples, thus denying gay families the right to adopt or even foster care for a child.

It is also one of the ways 'seperate but equal' as far as schooling was ruled unconstitutional.

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2008, 07:01:09 PM »
It is also one of the ways 'seperate but equal' as far as schooling was ruled unconstitutional.

That's what I thought I was reading.  The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were put in place during the Reconstruction Era after the Civil War, and were intended to affirm that constitutional rights were extended to all. (Well, men, at least.  Suffrage for women wasn't until the 19th Amendment.)

Offline Sabby

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2008, 09:19:44 PM »
Excuse me for my lack of political knowledge, but in my tiny, simple mind, the place is a hate state and I like the idea of it shriveling up and dying from a Boycott. Anywhere that's going to parade a man like Jack Thompson around like a hero can go away as far as I'm concerned, or at least shut the hell up and keep to itself.

Offline Sugarman (hal)

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2008, 04:26:35 PM »
Mormons believe in something called "Free Agency" they feel we were put here to use it. But the say there are consequences for it. What bothers me, is they try their best to get people to get people to conform to their ways. They seem to be in conflict with their own doctrine. They not only do it in the polling-place but also in converting efforts. The largest missionary program in the world is a testament to that.

Offline IronCharmer

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2008, 01:55:21 AM »
I don't get why people are boycotting utah, why not boycott California, the state that passed it?

Offline Sugarman (hal)

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2008, 02:14:36 AM »
it's because the Utah Mormons helped passed it by contributions in the millions.

Offline IronCharmer

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2008, 08:46:31 AM »
capitalism is a democracy of the dollar, you have the right to spend (or not spend) in this instance money in or around the state of utah. will that solve your problems, I personally doubt it.


Offline Cherri Tart

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2008, 10:39:46 AM »
I need signatures so i can put a proposition taking away the right for Mormons to marry in California.  Really, what's the difference?  Then, after that we can target *insert race/culture/religion here*.

Offline Sugarman (hal)

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2008, 02:09:11 PM »
I need signatures so i can put a proposition taking away the right for Mormons to marry in California.  Really, what's the difference?  Then, after that we can target *insert race/culture/religion here*.

How unGodly Cherri, but totally agree. We must protect the rights of every minority to insure our rights

Offline Trieste

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2008, 02:12:01 PM »
... that's IT! Clearly the Mormons are pissed because their form of marriage is disallowed by the state. If we let them marry as they wish, maybe they'll leave everyone else's alone!

Offline Sugarman (hal)

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2008, 09:39:11 PM »
... that's IT! Clearly the Mormons are pissed because their form of marriage is disallowed by the state. If we let them marry as they wish, maybe they'll leave everyone else's alone!

LOL they hold a grudge a good long time.

Offline Sabby

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2008, 09:13:32 PM »
I don't know a lot of Mormonism and the Latter Day Saints, so I youtubed it and found this...

[youtube=425,344]http://au.[/youtube]

...do they really believe this?

Offline Trieste

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2008, 10:25:08 PM »
Are you sure that that isn't scientology? O_o

Offline Sabby

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2008, 10:27:27 PM »
No, its definitely Mormon... I already saw the gold plates and stuff on South Park, but God being a sci-fi playboy and the indecisive cursed to live as negros? That was new to me.

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2008, 10:38:14 PM »
I read elsewhere that they considered the Negro to be the descendants of Noah's son who walked in and saw him drunk and naked and told his brothers (Shem and Japheth) instead of simply covering him up.  I also know that they believed that after the Resurrection, Jesus came to North America and ministered to the Native Americans (I'm guessing that was mentioned - I didn't have time to watch the youtube clip.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2008, 10:44:06 PM »
didn't god turn the natives red for killing some people from Israeli or something in Mormonism?

Offline Sabby

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2008, 11:04:13 PM »
According to the video, the Mormon Gods up in their space kingdom or something had a council to see what would be done with the millions of kids that God had made with his harem of baby machine wives. Control of Earth went to Jesus, but his brother Lucifer riled up a third of the children to rebel. That third became demons, Jesus' third became good, white Mormon families, and the third that remained neutral were cursed with black skin.

Wow... kind of sounds like Power Rangers.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2008, 11:06:02 PM »
wow, thats... fucked up.


but then I find all religion fucked up.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2008, 01:16:54 AM »
According to the video, the Mormon Gods up in their space kingdom or something had a council to see what would be done with the millions of kids that God had made with his harem of baby machine wives. Control of Earth went to Jesus, but his brother Lucifer riled up a third of the children to rebel. That third became demons, Jesus' third became good, white Mormon families, and the third that remained neutral were cursed with black skin.

Wow... kind of sounds like Power Rangers.

*pokes head back into thread*

Like the Power Rangers crossed with the race of superbeings from Krypton. Fracked up is an understatement. And the neutral people were 'cursed' into being black...I just love how we can bend dogma so it fits our ignorance. I hope this isn't the real Mormon manifesto because cutting off travel and recreation revenues to Utah is the very, very least we can do.

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Re: Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2008, 04:03:10 PM »
it's simplified but a good deal true. Joseph Smith said "As man is God once was, as God is man may become.

As for me, I think it's a dam sight better then believing our only one purpose is to become angles to solely serve and worship God for ever and ever. I's a pointless future. At least they believe we have a equal potential as he had to create.

opinion only