You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 05, 2016, 06:47:07 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]  (Read 40418 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vekseid

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #975 on: March 16, 2016, 06:38:43 PM »
Not quite.  I am a registered Independent.  I considered voting for Bernie and dug into his promises and plans.  I was less than impressed by what I found.  I got a strong impression he's selling snake oil.  Worse, I suspect he knows this and is pushing forward simply because of the money and power it brings.  That is why I now openly question Bernie.

Because Bernie was all about hoarding power and wealth for the past fifty years of his activism. /s

...suddenly, near the end of his life, he's after power and wealth?

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #976 on: March 16, 2016, 06:47:51 PM »
Because Bernie was all about hoarding power and wealth for the past fifty years of his activism. /s

...suddenly, near the end of his life, he's after power and wealth?

You misread what I wrote.

Read it again.  I said nothing about what he's done the past fifty years.  My criticism is what he is doing presently.

Bernie is pushing forward now, when mathematically he has no chance to be nominated.  Why?

Why is he doing this?

Is he stupid and can't do simple math?


Offline BlytheTopic starter

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #977 on: March 16, 2016, 06:58:23 PM »
I got a strong impression he's selling snake oil.  Worse, I suspect he knows this and is pushing forward simply because of the money and power it brings.  That is why I now openly question Bernie.

While I'm a Sanders supporter, I can see why some people might be less than enthused with him. He certainly doesn't appeal to everyone. Then again, I like seeing all candidates openly questioned; it's the mark of a voter interested in more than just what's on the surface when one does the research.

I'm more interested in the more concrete reasons that make you feel he's selling snake oil. You mentioned looking into him--what policies in particular or ideas of his are the ones that make you feel that way, and why? (If you mentioned something like this already upthread, I apologize; it's a big thread, and I haven't gotten to get to read through it as thoroughly as I'd like)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 07:01:29 PM by Blythe »

Offline ReijiTabibito

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #978 on: March 16, 2016, 07:01:09 PM »
Bernie is pushing forward now, when mathematically he has no chance to be nominated.  Why?

Why is he doing this?

Is he stupid and can't do simple math?



Your statement makes sense, if Bernie was like every other potential candidate.  But he's not.  He's not like the Rubios and the Bushes and the Clintons and most of the rest of the establishment field.

Bernie could have gotten beaten in every state since Vermont (since I guess the conventional wisdom is that you need to carry your state or go home), and he would still be on the trail, still talking, still giving speeches.  Because this is not about an office to him.  This is about a country.  A country that he cares about.

People have said that mathematically he has no chance to win.  But he's still winning states, and his gap with Clinton is only slightly bigger than the gap between Cruz and Trump, both of whom only announced their election desires this cycle, compared to Hillary who we've been told will be the nominee for nearly the last decade.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #979 on: March 16, 2016, 07:08:04 PM »
People have said that mathematically he has no chance to win.  But he's still winning states, and his gap with Clinton is only slightly bigger than the gap between Cruz and Trump, both of whom only announced their election desires this cycle, compared to Hillary who we've been told will be the nominee for nearly the last decade.

There are still 2391 delegates to earn.

Offline Aislinn

  • Enchantress of Éire, Local Avatarmonger & Leprechaun Ninja Extraordinaire
  • Dame
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Location: In the shadows...
  • Gender: Female
  • The Poet's Muse
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #980 on: March 16, 2016, 07:09:08 PM »
Victory for Hillary means sending the following message to the media: you control who gets elected, all you have to do is focus on the same person for an election cycle and stifle any newsworthy reports about anyone you don't agree with.  Victory for Hillary means pretty much 8 more years of what we just had - arguments and political obstruction and nothing getting done.

That's what it means to you. Not to other people.

Then if you're really convinced that the Democratic candidates will get nothing done, and that the GOP candidates will take us in the entirely wrong direction, stay home on voting day.  Because if nothing's going to happen, then you might as well just not vote to begin with.  Yeah, sure, it'll mean when you complain about how f**king useless Congress is or how it's impossible to get anything done that you won't have actually given your input into the political system, but you know, let's be realistic here, nobody wants anything to get done, so nothing will get done.

Actually, Congress IS pretty useless and will continue to be so until term limits are established.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 07:13:01 PM by Aislinn »

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #981 on: March 16, 2016, 07:10:38 PM »
People have said that mathematically he has no chance to win.  But he's still winning states, and his gap with Clinton is only slightly bigger than the gap between Cruz and Trump, both of whom only announced their election desires this cycle, compared to Hillary who we've been told will be the nominee for nearly the last decade.

There are still 2391 delegates to earn.

Do the math yourself.  Do you really think Bernie can win 70% of the delegates in California, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania?

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #982 on: March 16, 2016, 07:21:37 PM »
Mathematically impossible means that there are insufficient contests for one party to beat the other.  This happens in sporting tournaments all the time (Team X has been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs means that even if they won all their remaining games, they could not take the title.) 

It's half-time.  The game isn't over yet.

Offline Vekseid

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #983 on: March 16, 2016, 07:27:08 PM »
You misread what I wrote.

Read it again.  I said nothing about what he's done the past fifty years.  My criticism is what he is doing presently.

Bernie is pushing forward now, when mathematically he has no chance to be nominated.  Why?

Why is he doing this?

Is he stupid and can't do simple math?

You said:

Quote
Worse, I suspect he knows this and is pushing forward simply because of the money and power it brings.

What is there to misread? He has established a legacy over a half century of consistent political activism. He's the most consistent politician to have the remotest of chances at the presidency since Eisenhower if not earlier.

Also, Bernie tends to get things done through the sidelines - amending bills rather than sponsoring them directly as a key example. If I were to wager a guess, he wants Hillary to commit to some platform positions in exchange for conceding.

Yes, but here's the real question.  Will Hillary actually try and make those changes, or are they just going to be the usual set of empty promises and platitudes that someone who belongs to the political establishment will ride into office on?  Because apparently, it doesn't matter what you said you're going to try and do, it just matters if you're actually going to be able to do it.  Hillary has flip-flopped on a number of issues: gay marriage, immigration, the TPP and other trade agreements.  She might say all the right words, but her record shows that Hillary will do what is best for Hillary.

Indeed, and what's best for Hillary is not to ignore a problem that already has billionaires openly worried. The Koch brothers are whining about their lack of influence on the right and their more left-oriented peers are sponsoring pieces from the left that suggest that they consider the Sanders-Trump situation to be a colossal problem.

Just because someone is a power-hungry nut does not mean that that power hungry nut is going to let a situation that already seriously threatens them get even worse.

Offline BlytheTopic starter

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #984 on: March 16, 2016, 07:32:26 PM »
I usually avoid talking politics in public....or really at all because it's such a hot-button topic. I have my opinions and I leave it at that.

However, I'm pretty comfortable here so I really have no problem saying that I'm very much in Hillary Clinton's corner. I like her....and have always liked her.

But....

At this point, I would be happy with ANYONE but Trump. The guy scares the crap out of me. I honestly feel that if he got elected president, we would end up getting bombed or in a global war of some sort.

Didn't mean to meander back to an earlier post, but I missed this earlier!

While I like Sanders, I don't dislike Hillary. To be honest, some sort of Sanders/Hillary (or Hillary/Sanders) ticket would make me very happy. Are there any particular reasons you support Hillary? Any policies of hers that resonate with you?

Also, I gotta be honest, even if Sanders doesn't get in...I could get pretty excited about a potential first female president, even if I disagree with some of her stances. Then again...I don't think I've ever 100% agreed with any politican; I just try to support the one the closest to my views when I can.  ;D

For me, I'm not quite in the "anyone but Trump" corner at the moment. Ted Cruz scares the hell out of me, too. So I'm sort of in the "anyone but Trump or Cruz" ring. >_>;
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 08:28:05 PM by Blythe »

Offline ReijiTabibito

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #985 on: March 16, 2016, 07:36:46 PM »
Indeed, and what's best for Hillary is not to ignore a problem that already has billionaires openly worried. The Koch brothers are whining about their lack of influence on the right and their more left-oriented peers are sponsoring pieces from the left that suggest that they consider the Sanders-Trump situation to be a colossal problem.

Just because someone is a power-hungry nut does not mean that that power hungry nut is going to let a situation that already seriously threatens them get even worse.

Can you link me to some of those pieces from the left that you're discussing?  Also, isn't the fact that guys like the Kochs are whining about their lack of influence a good thing?  I thought we wanted to cut down on government corruption...

Offline Aislinn

  • Enchantress of Éire, Local Avatarmonger & Leprechaun Ninja Extraordinaire
  • Dame
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Location: In the shadows...
  • Gender: Female
  • The Poet's Muse
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #986 on: March 16, 2016, 09:02:23 PM »
Didn't mean to meander back to an earlier post, but I missed this earlier!

While I like Sanders, I don't dislike Hillary. To be honest, some sort of Sanders/Hillary (or Hillary/Sanders) ticket would make me very happy. Are there any particular reasons you support Hillary? Any policies of hers that resonate with you?

Also, I gotta be honest, even if Sanders doesn't get in...I could get pretty excited about a potential first female president, even if I disagree with some of her stances. Then again...I don't think I've ever 100% agreed with any politican; I just try to support the one the closest to my views when I can.  ;D

For me, I'm not quite in the "anyone but Trump" corner at the moment. Ted Cruz scares the hell out of me, too. So I'm sort of in the "anyone but Trump or Cruz" ring. >_>;

I think for me...it's the fact that she has such a wide range of platforms and is knowledgeable in all of them. She's intelligent and she has the working knowledge of the office. I won't deny that she's a political creature and she's made mistakes....but we are all human and for some reason we tend to forget about that when it comes to our presidents. We expect them to be super-human.

I read an article recently that talked about what attracts voters to a particular candidate and one of the main things that was discussed was the fact that several other candidates are very 'rebellious' with their speeches and have appointed Clinton as an 'old school' politician whose like needs to be driven out of Washington. I agree that she's different then the others but that's what I like. She knows what she is talking about. Pair that with the fact that being a woman in politics in Washington is wickedly hard. She's clawed her way through that quagmire for years.

Someone else earlier mentioned that she keeps flip-flopping on issues...but isn't that human nature? We evolve. We grow. We change our mind. I would rather have a president that actually evolves and is able to make adjustments to their opinions then one that is stuck in their own circular thinking and unable to consider new information.

In my opinion, she stands the best chance of getting something done while in office.

Oh...and for the record, I'm an Independent. =-)


Offline Vekseid

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #987 on: March 16, 2016, 09:36:21 PM »
Can you link me to some of those pieces from the left that you're discussing?  Also, isn't the fact that guys like the Kochs are whining about their lack of influence a good thing?  I thought we wanted to cut down on government corruption...

It's hilarious. And definitely a good thing.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #988 on: March 17, 2016, 10:03:20 AM »
Missouri votes are in - Sanders is steady at 86% of what he needs, Hillary is at 110% (down from 113%)

On the Republican side, Trump is now at 96% of target (under 100% for the first time since the start of the primary season), Kasich has climbed to 25%, Cruz dropped to 52%, and Rubio fell to 28% before dropping out.

Source

Offline HannibalBarca

  • Defiant General of Hopeless Causes * Henry Rollins for President campaigner * Mako-phile * Uncle Iroh in shades * Disciple of Dr. Cornel West *
  • Lord
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: At large, am tall. "People keep asking if I'm back. Yeah...I'm thinking I'm back."
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #989 on: March 18, 2016, 03:57:29 AM »
Even if Sanders is mathematically eliminated as a nominee, he can still push his agenda, like any other candidate.  He still has a platform as a candidate, and a message to get out, and the fact that he rose from 3% to the high 30s and won several states says that his message has resonated.  There are still many people who have no idea who he is or what he stands for, other than what other outlets have claimed him to be.

Plus,, like President Obama, he paves the way for those similar to him in the future.  Obama broke the ceiling on African-Americans running for the White House.  Sanders is doing much to normalize democratic socialism. Not that there isn't socialism already in this country, but he's making it acceptable to people who never realized how much of it we already have here.

Even if he doesn't win the nomination, that's okay.  The best way to tweak the Republicans if Hillary wins, in my opinion, would be to nominate Sanders as her choice for the Supreme Court, if Obama's choice doesn't get approved.  Think of the Republican heads a-sploding if she did that.

Offline consortium11

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #990 on: March 18, 2016, 10:57:45 AM »
The best way to tweak the Republicans if Hillary wins, in my opinion, would be to nominate Sanders as her choice for the Supreme Court, if Obama's choice doesn't get approved.  Think of the Republican heads a-sploding if she did that.

Everyone's head should explode if someone did that.

A Supreme Court judge is exactly that... a judge... and as such they need to have legal experience. Yes, the politics of the judges (and/or whether the way they interpret tends to support a certain political position) clearly comes into things and grabs the headlines but that all comes within a legal framework. Putting someone with no legal experience in that position would be a farce and lead the Supreme Court to ridicule.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #991 on: March 18, 2016, 11:19:05 AM »
Gotta agree with Consortium there.  VP wouldn't be a bad idea for making right-wing heads go 'splodey, though.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #992 on: March 18, 2016, 11:20:32 AM »
Thirding. Bernie is in no way suitable for the judicial branch, but as Veep, or even just a prominent cabinet post like Interior or Education, it'd be nice.

Offline Zillah

  • Your kinky little sweetheart
  • On Hiatus
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Location: Down in the West Village
  • Gender: Female
  • The capital of Montana is not "Hannah"
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #993 on: March 18, 2016, 11:35:33 AM »
There's this guy named Barack Obama, though, who does have legal experience ... ::)

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #994 on: March 18, 2016, 11:38:35 AM »
That would be funny as hell.

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #995 on: March 18, 2016, 02:00:33 PM »
If I were to wager a guess, he wants Hillary to commit to some platform positions in exchange for conceding.

He still has a platform as a candidate, and a message to get out, and the fact that he rose from 3% to the high 30s and won several states says that his message has resonated. 

Sanders is doing much to normalize democratic socialism. Not that there isn't socialism already in this country, but he's making it acceptable to people who never realized how much of it we already have here.

Hmm.  Sounds like you're saying he's pushing forward because it gives him power.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #996 on: March 18, 2016, 02:03:05 PM »
Hmm.  Sounds like you're saying he's pushing forward because it gives him power.

What power? The power to actually make meaningful change in the world? The power to do something good? The power to make people's lives better? Yes, those are the kinds of power we think Bernie is hoping to have.

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #997 on: March 18, 2016, 02:14:23 PM »
So you agree he is pushing forward because of the power it gives him.

Good.  That point's established then.

Whether he is going to do good with the power he seeks is a different question.  And the answer to that question depends on whether you are going to be harmed or helped by what Bernie proposes.  Or do you not think that Bernie's plans will harm anyone?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #998 on: March 18, 2016, 02:17:03 PM »
So you agree he is pushing forward because of the power it gives him.

Good.  That point's established then.

Whether he is going to do good with the power he seeks is a different question.  And the answer to that question depends on whether you are going to be harmed or helped by what Bernie proposes.  Or do you not think that Bernie's plans will harm anyone?

No, I am saying he is pushing forward because of his desire to do good things. The only way to accomplish those good things is to have the office of President; he is not seeking power for power's sake, as you are portraying him - your definition of 'power' is so devalued as to be meaningless in this discussion.

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]
« Reply #999 on: March 18, 2016, 02:26:42 PM »
The only way to accomplish those good things is to have the office of President.

Not quite.  He still needs the support of Congress.  See what's going on with Judge Garland?

he is not seeking power for power's sake, as you are portraying him, as you are portraying him - your definition of 'power' is so devalued as to be meaningless in this discussion.

We, of course, disagree.  I think he is seeking power to pursue his goal of implementing Socialism.  Now, I accept you think this is a laudable goal.  Can you accept I do not think it is a laudable goal?