You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 09, 2016, 12:03:36 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]  (Read 40716 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #725 on: February 18, 2016, 12:32:43 AM »
Question:  how--precisely--does Bernie expect to accomplish his goals?


Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #726 on: February 18, 2016, 12:37:10 AM »
The groups I've been following have been hyping the need to follow through with Congressional and mid-term elections to ensure a Congress that will actually work with the President (whoever he or she might be - this stonewalling the past several years has been an absolute embarrassment), but here's the plan from the Sanders camp:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #727 on: February 18, 2016, 12:51:28 AM »
The groups I've been following have been hyping the need to follow through with Congressional and mid-term elections to ensure a Congress that will actually work with the President

I have heard this too, from the talking heads.  What I have not seen is a plan from Bernie to accomplish this.  Who is he going after?  Who is he grooming to go after those obstinate Congressfolks?  Is he raising funds to support these new candidates?  What are their odds of winning?

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #728 on: February 18, 2016, 04:15:34 AM »
Question:  how--precisely--does Bernie expect to accomplish his goals?
The same question could just as well be asked about Clinton. Just that her goals sound more modest, or more realistic, or less ambitious, or less pie-in-the-sky (depending on how you see it) doesn't mean the Republicans on the Hill will give her an easier time. Heck, some of them probably will not give a Democrat president the time of day to begin with, no matter who it might be.

I know that's not an answer to the question, but why ask only about Sanders?

Offline Foxfyr

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #729 on: February 18, 2016, 08:59:09 AM »
The same question could just as well be asked about Clinton. Just that her goals sound more modest, or more realistic, or less ambitious, or less pie-in-the-sky (depending on how you see it) doesn't mean the Republicans on the Hill will give her an easier time. Heck, some of them probably will not give a Democrat president the time of day to begin with, no matter who it might be.

I know that's not an answer to the question, but why ask only about Sanders?

As you suggested, regardless of the democratic candidate who gets nominated, they will be working against republican opposition until dems retake the legislature. The main issue I have with Hill's "modest" proposals is that they already meet in the middle, which isnt an ideal place to start with negotiations. Bernie on the other hand proposes things so far left that he has that room to negotiate and still get most of what he (and his supporters) want.

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #730 on: February 18, 2016, 09:57:30 AM »
I know that's not an answer to the question, but why ask only about Sanders?

Because I want to understand Bernie's plan. 

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #731 on: February 18, 2016, 11:14:41 AM »
I have heard this too, from the talking heads.  What I have not seen is a plan from Bernie to accomplish this.  Who is he going after?  Who is he grooming to go after those obstinate Congressfolks?  Is he raising funds to support these new candidates?  What are their odds of winning?

When I say 'groups I've been following', I mean grass-roots.  The people who are actually turning out to vote.  The support for these candidates is being generated in the same way that support for Sanders has been generated.  Odds of winning?  That's going to depend on who you talk to.  After all, the mass media has a very different opinion of Sanders' own odds of winning, compared to the people doing the voting.

Offline WhatLiesAbove

  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Location: The Great Plane between Heaven and Hell
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #732 on: February 18, 2016, 11:40:40 PM »
His plans for paying are simple.

First off, taxes are going to increase, but that would happen with any candidate, no matter what.

He plans on cutting a bit off of an exorbitant defense budget. We spend more in the military than the next 15 countries combined.
He plans on closing tax loopholes, which means off-shore accounts for Major American corporations are going to get taxed. That alone will be bringing in billions.

There will be a significant increase on the wealthiest 1% of Americans. People like Trump, Buffet, Koch, Soros....all the big names you always hear about will be paying more, instead of paying less.

There will be a system-wide removal of large sums of money towards politicians. No more buying votes.

All told, economists see this as creating a surplus economy. It will not be destroying our military, since we spend close to a billion dollars a year on a new plane that doesn't work (F-35). It will help to create jobs, allowing for a higher minimum wage. This in turn decreases the need for people to be on SNAP benefits and welfare. That adds money to the economy as well, though a significantly lesser amount.

Over the course of 10 years, a Sanders economy will lower the unemployment rate below 4%, allow for healthcare for all,and give a college education to government funded schools (community colleges and state universities).

Offline Dice

  • Ooh, shiny.
  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Location: Middle of nowhere, Australia
  • Gender: Male
  • Autocorrect will do its thing. Sorry about that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #733 on: February 19, 2016, 06:37:39 AM »
Not wanting to get in too deep on this one, but a Labor government here in Australia made University free and it did not work out exactly as planed. (lots of rich kids went to uni for free, poorer people still did not go) If he is planing to make the sun shine equally, he best be willing to means test his policy's. Something that brings it's own issues.

Not to say the plan doesn't have merit, only that ideas and implementation are not one and the same.

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #734 on: February 19, 2016, 06:51:30 AM »
One small question on that, if you don't mind, Dice.  Have Australian employers been using the 'college degree' as a magic gatekeeper the way that American employers have?  For example, a retail store manager really doesn't need a college degree, especially if they have worked many years in retail.  However, getting a management job without that degree has become increasingly difficult (if not impossible) in recent years, regardless of what you have down in 'prior experience'.

Offline Dice

  • Ooh, shiny.
  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Location: Middle of nowhere, Australia
  • Gender: Male
  • Autocorrect will do its thing. Sorry about that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #735 on: February 19, 2016, 08:02:28 AM »
No. I work in a large company, my direct manager started working for the company as a cleaner. His boss was a cop before she moved over and her boss was a anti fraud card counter that was self taught. No, over hear you don't need to be in debt to get a job. Seems stupid to have that gateway.

In fact over here there is a move away from going to Uni. Personally I love the place and my classes, but not everyone needs to go and I think people are starting to try and get work though other pathways.

Online ReijiTabibito

  • Gatecrasher
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: Titanian Autonomous University, Gate Studies Dept.
  • Gender: Male
  • There cannot be another Fall.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #736 on: February 19, 2016, 08:13:34 AM »
Post-secondary education is, sadly, a necessity of life over here in the US, unless you want to spend all your days flipping burgers or stocking shelves.  (And even then, getting that piece of paper is no guarantee.)

However, I'm in agreement with Dice in that there needs to be a move away from the traditional 4-year major school.  Colleges keep raising tuition to pay for the costs of idiot things like sports teams (though the players are excepted from this financial drain, because of the whole 'student athlete' BS), newer facilities, and other such incidentals.

The common lore I've encountered says that places like trade schools and community colleges are, if you're young, basically third-string options.  You don't go to those unless you haven't any other choice - if you're older and wanting to go back to school, then community college is okay.  But out of high school?  Pssssh, what sort of person are you that you couldn't get accepted into a fine 4-year school.

In reality, those are actually pretty worthwhile.  I had a classmate from school who was, quite simply, a genius.  After we graduated, he didn't go to college like the rest of us, he went to trade school to be an electrician.  Lo and behold, when the rest of us were struggling to find work because of the housing bubble burst, he was safely employed as an electrician, making upwards of $50k a year.  (This was in the Midwest, where CoL is pretty low.)

Online HannibalBarca

  • Defiant General of Hopeless Causes * Henry Rollins for President campaigner * Mako-phile * Uncle Iroh in shades * Disciple of Dr. Cornel West *
  • Lord
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: At large, am tall. "People keep asking if I'm back. Yeah...I'm thinking I'm back."
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #737 on: February 20, 2016, 12:32:48 AM »
Quote
Post-secondary education is, sadly, a necessity of life over here in the US, unless you want to spend all your days flipping burgers or stocking shelves.  (And even then, getting that piece of paper is no guarantee.)

30% of the U.S. population has a bachelor's degree or higher.  I have a B.A., but both of my younger brothers don't, and they work at jobs that pay them more than I do, including health benefits and retirement.  I don't think that is the norm...but there are good jobs out there that you don't need a degree for.

One of the problems is the focus on college prep for students.  If 70% of them aren't going to end up with a college degree, there should instead be an emphasis on trade or vocational training.

Offline ThePrince

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #738 on: February 20, 2016, 05:21:43 PM »
Hillary Clinton has just won the Nevada Democrat Caucus. The South Carolina Democratic Primary will be next Saturday.

Offline TheGlyphstone


Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #740 on: February 20, 2016, 07:43:58 PM »
3.0 is done.

Finally.


Offline BlytheTopic starter

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #741 on: February 20, 2016, 07:56:38 PM »
Updating OP--am surprised it took this long for Jeb Bush to drop from the race.

Online gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #742 on: February 20, 2016, 08:01:36 PM »
Dang - Trump has really been knocking down the number of competitors on the Republican side of the race. Three rep primaries in and there are just a handful of GOP candidates left.  :-(

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #743 on: February 20, 2016, 08:12:21 PM »
So, if I'm reading things correctly, the race is down to:

Dems:
Hillary Clinton
Bernie Sanders

Reps:
Ted Cruz
Marco Rubio
Ben Carson
Donald Trump
John Kasich

I fear Carson and Kasich are both unaware of how 'in-over-their-heads' they are.  I'm not sure which scares me least out of Cruz and Rubio.

Offline consortium11

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #744 on: February 21, 2016, 06:12:36 AM »
I fear Carson and Kasich are both unaware of how 'in-over-their-heads' they are.

Neither are stupid (despite Carson frequently doing a good impression of a stupid man), so I suspect both realise that they've passed well beyond the "long shot" point. That said, there are reasons for sticking around regardless. Being in a presidential election campaign raises someone's profile and my cynical side thinks that both (and especially Carson) are looking towards getting a spot in the media off the back of this... look at how both Herman Cain and Mike Huckabee turned their presidential runs into spots of Fox News. My ultra-cynical side also thinks Carson will stick around until the last dollar is spent; his campaign is known to spend heavily on "consultants" and the allegation is that those consultants are almost all either friends or family members.

There's perhaps a glimmer of hope for Kaisch; if he can pull strong results from say Massachusetts, Vermont, Virginia and (somewhat obviously) Ohio with their more moderate Republican bases while Rubio struggles then he may see a surge of establishment money heading in his direction which gives him an outside chance of making it a three-way with him involved. It's a very faint glimmer of hope but it gives his campaign targets to work towards; do well in those states and they stick around, do badly and they drop out.

It's also interesting to see that for all the fear of Super PACS and how they would allow candidates to buy elections that hasn't happened on either side of the aisle. Hillary has received (and spent) a vast amount more than Sanders and while she's still the favorite to win it's hardly been a blowout so far. The Republican side is even more dramatic; Jeb Bush raised and spent considerably more than anyone else and has dropped out having barely made a dent in the process and then you have Carson... basically a dead duck at this point... next in the raised/spent list. The Republican front-runner Trump? His campaign, largely self-funded complemented by some small donations by individual donors is one of the lowest spending campaigns out there.

Offline Dice

  • Ooh, shiny.
  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Location: Middle of nowhere, Australia
  • Gender: Male
  • Autocorrect will do its thing. Sorry about that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 2
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #745 on: February 21, 2016, 08:08:40 AM »
I'm not sure which scares me least out of Cruz and Rubio.
In times such as these, I remember what an Australian once told me: Im glad we got the convicts and you got the puritans.

Joe Bageant.

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #746 on: February 21, 2016, 08:25:11 AM »
There's perhaps a glimmer of hope for Kaisch; if he can pull strong results from say Massachusetts, Vermont, Virginia and (somewhat obviously) Ohio with their more moderate Republican bases

Except that the Ohioans have seen him govern already.

Offline Mithlomwen

  • ~ E's resident kilt inspector ~ ~ Atropos ~
  • Goddess
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: Somewhere between the dark and the light...
  • Gender: Female
  • ~ Thunder only happens when it's raining.... ~
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #747 on: February 21, 2016, 09:19:34 AM »
I've watched and listened to my conservative friends argue back and forth during the entire election process about the various GOP candidates.  Really heated debates about why 'so and so' is the better choice over 'the other guy'. Reading and hearing these debates, and their reasoning behind why their candidate of choice is the better option truly terrifies me for this country's future.   :-\

Offline TheGlyphstone

« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 08:38:19 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #749 on: February 21, 2016, 08:34:59 PM »
Missing an = in there, Glyph.  Is that an entry for 'Best/Worst Horror Film' or 'Best/Worst Comedy'?