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Author Topic: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates [Poll updated!]  (Read 40906 times)

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Online Oniya

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Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #450 on: November 02, 2015, 09:10:23 PM »
Not sure on If This has been posted and I'll delete it if It has been Sen. Bernie Sanders has proposed a bill to designate "Democracy Day" as a national election holiday to make it easier for Americans to vote.

Like so many things, Bernie's got a good idea here.  A lot of people end up not voting because their work schedules conflict with the polling schedule.  There's also a suggestion that more states do like Oregon and make voter registration an 'opt-out' rather than an 'opt-in' proposition.  (That is to say, if you are eligible to vote, you're already registered.)

Speaking of which, tomorrow is Election Day.  It's not the primaries, it's not a 'mid-term', but local governments will have issues to be decided on.  Here in PA, we have three State Supreme Court justices to consider.

Change has to start at home.  If you want a voice in that change - VOTE.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #451 on: November 02, 2015, 09:14:51 PM »
Making it easier for unwashed commoners of the middle and lower classes to vote without losing out on needed income? What a damn dirty red Commie thing to suggest, I say! Privilege, Property, and Principle, the three P's of which American democracy was founded on - go back to our roots, when only white male land owners could cast votes. ;D

Offline Tairis

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #452 on: November 02, 2015, 09:18:38 PM »
Even if they made it a national holiday how would that help? I've got plenty of friends that are regular white collar jobs that don't even get off for holidays other than Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #453 on: November 02, 2015, 09:25:35 PM »
Just a note Cycle, I read that article you posted a few entries back.

Yeah, sorry, I should have made it more clear the piece is satire.  :-)


More funny stuff:  Jeb! Can Fix It! backfires

Offline eBadger

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #454 on: November 03, 2015, 01:02:24 AM »
These look like decent questions, and they seemed that way when I watched it on TV.  Honestly, I think there's a lot of spin being put out right now to achieve a goal...

Many of them read to me like a textbook of examples of complex question fallacies. 

Quote
Complex Question Fallacy
Explanation

The complex question fallacy is committed when a question is asked (a) that rests on a questionable assumption, and (b) to which all answers appear to endorse that assumption.
Examples

“Have you stopped beating your wife?”

This is a complex question because it presupposes that you used to beat your wife, a presupposition that either answer to the question appears to endorse.

“Are you going to admit that you’re wrong?”

Answering yes to this question is an admission of guilt. Answering no to the question implies that the accused accepts that he is in the wrong, but will not admit it. No room is left to protest one’s innocence. This is therefore a complex question, and a subtle false dilemma.

These, for instance:

Quote
QUINTANILLA: This one is for Senator Rubio. You’ve been a young man in a hurry ever since you won your first election in your 20s. You’ve had a big accomplishment in the Senate, an immigration bill providing a path to citizenship the conservatives in your party hate, and even you don’t support anymore. Now, you’re skipping more votes than any senator to run for president. Why not slow down, get a few more things done first or least finish what you start?

Note that actually answering the question - why not slow down - implies his immigration bill sucks and he's a lazy senator.  Nor is it at all clear what his being young has to do with skipping votes: would it be okay to skip votes if he were twenty years older?  Would being president not help create a better immigration bill?  That entire question was a mess. 

Quote
QUICK: Ms. Fiorina, I — I’d like to ask you a question. You are running for president of the United States because of your record running Hewlett-Packard. But the stock market is usually a fair indicator of the performance of a CEO, and the market was not kind to you.
...
I just wonder, in terms of all of that — you know, we look back, your board fired you. I just wondered why you think we should hire you now.

And again, responding to the last sentence implies she was a lousy CEO. 

I'm not saying the tough questions should be ignored, but there were very obvious fallacies and leading questions, and I absolutely agree with the GOP candidates that there were some obvious grabs for the Gotcha moments. 

Not sure on If This has been posted and I'll delete it if It has been Sen. Bernie Sanders has proposed a bill to designate "Democracy Day" as a national election holiday to make it easier for Americans to vote.

Edit to Add : What do you think of this Bill?

Here in Washington, all our ballots are mailed out weeks ahead of time.  There is no issue of being able to vote within certain hours or get to locations, because they don't exist.  Even if all our outdated equipment fails, there are physical copies of every single ballot and probably some advance notice that an issue is occurring.  Better protection against fraud and increased turnout, and better opportunity to research issues and candidates for more informed votes.  And there's no need to shut our economy down for a day to make democracy work.  I'm heavily in favor of it and not even remotely impressed with Bernie's solution. 

More funny stuff:  Jeb! Can Fix It! backfires

Ugh.  Yet again, it's as though the candidate who should have the best team instead doesn't even know how media works. 

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #455 on: November 03, 2015, 01:14:49 AM »
Making it easier for unwashed commoners of the middle and lower classes to vote without losing out on needed income? What a damn dirty red Commie thing to suggest, I say! Privilege, Property, and Principle, the three P's of which American democracy was founded on - go back to our roots, when only white male land owners could cast votes. ;D





Speaking of Privileged Welfare Recipients Where Is The Outrage Over Corporate Welfare?
You know since the  Repubs love condemning the bottom 40% calling us welfare royalty. Please. When I can get 1 billion dollars in subsidies is when I can call my self Welfare Royalty.




But Im sure I preaching to the chior here

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #456 on: November 03, 2015, 01:21:41 AM »
Here in Washington, all our ballots are mailed out weeks ahead of time.  There is no issue of being able to vote within certain hours or get to locations, because they don't exist.  Even if all our outdated equipment fails, there are physical copies of every single ballot and probably some advance notice that an issue is occurring.  Better protection against fraud and increased turnout, and better opportunity to research issues and candidates for more informed votes.  And there's no need to shut our economy down for a day to make democracy work.  I'm heavily in favor of it and not even remotely impressed with Bernie's solution.
I was about to point to early voting / postal voting as something to explore to increase turnout. There are a number of states that allow non-excuse early voting only in person (pink) - or don't allow it at all (grey). Perhaps changing that would be worth trying.



(Green = postal only, blue = in person and postal no-excuse early voting)

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #457 on: November 03, 2015, 01:44:34 AM »
OK last post tonight

Bernie's First ad came out today soooooooo lets just do a comparison with Shill... I meant Hillary  With Secular talks Commentary cause I like this guy.

Hillary's "Dorthy" Ad 


New Hillary Ad Is Everything You Should Hate About Politicians


Bernie's "Real Change" Ad



Bernie Sanders First Presidential Ad - Good Or Bad?



































OK Im done Good night folks

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #458 on: November 03, 2015, 10:11:23 AM »
President Obama is having fun with the debate issue:

Quote
“They can’t handle a bunch of CNBC moderators," the president said at a DNC fundraiser held after a showing of Hamilton on Broadway. "I mean, let me tell ya, if you can’t handle, if you can’t handle those guys, you know then I don’t think the Chinese and the Russians are going to be too worried about you.”

As is Megyn Kelly!

(Though I'd be careful offering foot massages.  3.0 might actually take you up on that, after he gives you a big wet kiss.)

« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 11:44:18 AM by Cycle »

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #459 on: November 03, 2015, 11:40:28 AM »
Ah yes, the "incredibly detailed" list of demands by the GOP candidates for the coming debates.

A lot of the demands/questions aren't all that exotic when you realize that quite a bit of that was laid down in writing in the MoU for the Presidential debates of 2012, including (e.g.) "shall make best efforts to maintain a temperature agreed to by the campaigns", the exact size of the podiums use, that shots from behind the candidates shall not show notes, that the audience will be instructed not to applaud, and so on. If anything surprises me here it's that these things have not been addressed already.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #460 on: November 03, 2015, 12:01:37 PM »

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #461 on: November 03, 2015, 03:23:56 PM »
Oops.  Looks like "Jeb! Can Fix It" is actually more like "Jeb! Can Poach It"....


Edit:  It keeps getting worse.  He didn't buy JebCanFixIt.org either.  And man, are they having fun with that...
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 01:52:29 PM by Cycle »

Offline Cycle


Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #463 on: November 11, 2015, 11:51:22 AM »
owch.... is it any wonder sanders is racing up the polls with people like this as his competition.

I swear a Hillary & Sanders ticket would probably win, it's not like the GOP is putting it's most compassionate foot forward or embracing new growing demographics.

Offline Zillah

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Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #464 on: November 11, 2015, 12:01:24 PM »
I actually hope Bernie Sanders stays in the Senate. Like Elizabeth Warren (who I hope runs for President someday), I think he's more effective as a Senator than he would be as the President.

Offline Skynet

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #465 on: November 13, 2015, 09:36:40 PM »
I actually hope Bernie Sanders stays in the Senate. Like Elizabeth Warren (who I hope runs for President someday), I think he's more effective as a Senator than he would be as the President.

Even if Bernie gets elected, the Republicans are a majority in the House, and having a Socialist as our Commander-In-Chief will freak the fuck out of many people.  Remember how obstinate the GOP was during the Obama years and prevent him from passing a lot of bills and decisions?  It will be the same old same old with Bernie unless Americans vote Republicans out of office.

Many Americans still think that the Nazis were socialist in spite of going by a definition that no other socialist groups recognize; and that socialist means complete government control in as many things as possible.

And given that even MS-freakin-NBC edited out key parts of Sanders' speech during the Democratic debate in September, even the so-called "liberal media" will not be on his side either. :-\
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 09:38:01 PM by Skynet »

Online Oniya

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Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #466 on: November 13, 2015, 10:26:05 PM »
Even if Bernie gets elected, the Republicans are a majority in the House, and having a Socialist as our Commander-In-Chief will freak the fuck out of many people.  Remember how obstinate the GOP was during the Obama years and prevent him from passing a lot of bills and decisions?  It will be the same old same old with Bernie unless Americans vote Republicans out of office.

Disclosure here - I'm a member of several pro-Bernie groups on Facebook.  A very key talking point for the past several months has been the House and Senate candidates that will be 'coming due' next November.  Voting records are being talked about.  Stands on issues like the TPP, the environment, and just about everything that affects the working class are being scrutinized.  Names of opposition candidates are being floated, along with their positions on issues.  There's a lot of 'vote against this incumbent', yes, but there's also an increasing amount of 'vote for this guy.'

Social media is the new battleground. 

Offline Cycle


Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #468 on: November 16, 2015, 08:36:56 PM »
Ted Cruz:  "There is no meaningful risk of Christians committing acts of terror."

Senator, you are a moron.

These guys aren't terrorists?

And let's not forget this little bout of unpleasantness.

I guess Cruz doesn't think it's terrorism if black people are the ones being killed.

Online Oniya

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Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #469 on: November 16, 2015, 09:27:15 PM »
And let's not forget this little bout of unpleasantness.

I guess Cruz doesn't think it's terrorism if black people are the ones being killed.

I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure that lots of Caucasians were killed in that particular example...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #470 on: November 16, 2015, 09:28:18 PM »
I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure that lots of Caucasians were killed in that particular example...

No, you're absolutely right. But I don't think Cruz knows Ireland exists either. I guess I should have said 'if foreigners are the ones being killed'.

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Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #471 on: November 16, 2015, 09:33:20 PM »
Nah - I should just give up being surprised at some of the idiocy being spouted.  Or trying to apply logic to politics.

Offline Skynet

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #472 on: November 17, 2015, 01:31:16 AM »
Ted Cruz:  "There is no meaningful risk of Christians committing acts of terror."

Senator, you are a moron.

Oh, I recall Stephen King getting some harsh words when visiting the UK to talk about terrorism, when it turned out that he gave money to the PIRA.  He pretty much said that it's only terrorism if Americans are getting killed.

It's a real shame that this particular toxicity is not a rare opinion.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #473 on: November 17, 2015, 02:46:02 AM »
Ted Cruz is very high up on my list of people I usually don't agree with, but in this case I think it largely depends on what you define as a "meaningful risk". If read as "pretty likely that it will happen soon" I think it is not that much of a stretch to agree with him on this.

Now that he goes on to imply the Obama administration can't do anything about ISIS because they fail to paint this fight as a fight between religions, that is certainly where my potential agreement with Cruz definitely ends.

Offline Cycle

Re: The Big Thread For the USA 2016 Presidential Candidates
« Reply #474 on: November 17, 2015, 03:23:52 PM »
Faced with a crisis, what does Presidential Candidate Chris Christie do?

Panic.

It's like his reaction to Ebola all over again.  Oh no, here comes something I don't understand that I think is big and scary.  I'll hide under the bed and whine about it.

Very presidential.  So very presidential.