Orc Warlords of Faerun (3.5 heavily houseruled DnD player interest check)

[Muse]

I'm pretty sure you can pay less than a scroll to another wizard to learn a spell from his book. 

[ererruz]

I'm pretty sure you can pay less than a scroll to another wizard to learn a spell from his book. 

There are rules, also in srd, for scribing spells from another wizard, I think (can't check now as I'm on my phone) it's the normal scribing cost + 50gp per spell level.

[eternaldarkness]

I'm pretty sure you can pay less than a scroll to another wizard to learn a spell from his book.

Only if that wizard is stupid. Spells are valuable currency, and wizards don't share their most unique and useful spells with just anyone.

Also, wizards don't need any help being awesome. If anything, make it HARDER for them to get spells.

[PaleEnchantress]

I'm pretty sure you can pay less than a scroll to another wizard to learn a spell from his book.

Partly my Point. Just having the followers means a massive cost free access to the lower level spells. Beyond that with my (and probably most of the PC leaders) social skills it's nearly effortless to convince someone to look in their book. There are many things we could do to make them let us do it for free. Its so easy to add spells to my book without cost that I wouldn't even care about starting with more free spells if Zaer wasn't so busy.  It will still take me a couple posts to gloss over what I do and at Zaer's current rate of posting that could be a week IRL or more. Since there is no reason my character couldn't have done it before the game began, it's an inconvenience.

There are rules, also in srd, for scribing spells from another wizard, I think (can't check now as I'm on my phone) it's the normal scribing cost + 50gp per spell level.

Quick and dirty that works, especially for more standard campaigns. As it is though when you can convince the average person that eviscerating themselves so you can haruspex on their entrails is in their best interest, asking someone for something thats quick and takes none of their time or money is a simple thing Indeed. And thats just based on hard stats, add in that we are the voices of gods, the rulers of countries and some of the scariest forces of destruction in the world people would probably go out of their way to *bring* you their spellbooks so you can copy them.

ALso havnt heard from you in ages! Glad to se your still hovering aroudn the thread.

[ererruz]

I know it might not make sense not to have access to all these spells given our characters' status and powers, but I do understand it from a balance/mechanics point if view. I was just  saying there's a cheaper way to have some spells than buy all of them in scroll form :)

[Kolbrandr]

We're already going generally with accepting certain limitations on scope of hordes, societal access to things, cities, so forth, that realistically known spells could/should be a thing of vastness, but aren't, isn't really much different. Yes, you're in a society where there are a bunch of spellcasters around, yes you're a big important thing in your nation or orc horde or what have you, and certainly diplomacy stats will be high as well, one much imagines, but replace "spells and spellcasters" with "vast gigantic orc hordes" or "cities of tens to hundreds of thousands" and it's basically the same sort of reasoning. We don't really have access to those either. That you might have to take some actions or some such, or end up with spells known closer to the total you end up with in a more mechanically accurate way, or have to spend some personal money, or have some spellcasting cohorts so that you can between yourselves expand your spells known amongst each other (if within limits of their caster levels), it's just the adjustment to make.

[PaleEnchantress]

Well it would be nice if I didn't have to spend the first 2 or 3 posts getting all my low cost/no cost spells. If thats the consensus though I guess ill go with it.

[Miroque]

@PaleE: Your making something worng, IF you do need to get horde of low level spells anyway. Given the fact that 14lv focused specialist wizard knows all 0lv spells (that she can cast) + 3+int *1lv spells + 15 spells from her school + 26 additional spells.

14 lv specialist knows: all 0lv (that can cast), + (3+int *1lv) + 13 specialist school spells + 26 additional spells
14lv generalist knowns: all 0lv spells + (3+int *1lv) + 26 additional spells
3lv focused specialist/10lv master specialist/1lv archmage: all 0lv spells (that can cast) + (3+int *1lv) + 13 specialist school spells, +26 additional spells + 1 spell from 1-3 lv, 1spell from 1-4 lv, +1 spell from 1-6lv (Expanded spell book abilities)

+ all the feats that give more spells. Aerenal Arcanist (+2 spellcraft, +1 spell/lv, including lv1, Wizard only), Calishite Elementalist (loads of free spells, 1 to each level, AIR or FIRE elemntal spells, +1 CL to fire or AIR spells, + other abilities). There must be other feats like this on the splashbooks, but those are the two most used (atleast in our campaigns).

And Im not even going to explain Mage of the Arcane order... thats so insane prestige class... knowing all the spells in the world (if GM dont step in)

And why would your Wizard need low level spells at the highest point of her life? Money spend to scrolls represent the fact that she has aquired those spells/scrolls at so part of her life before the risen spot. Same goes to crafting. Do crafting cost Xp? (so if there is crafters, do they start on lower level as they should? Just an question...)

[PaleEnchantress]

@PaleE: Your making something worng, IF you do need to get horde of low level spells anyway.

Well I like to feel complete, the spells may be low level but there are over a hundred of them and most all of them have potential uses. Plus there are plenty of high level spells I want and intend to get with that too.

As far as crafting, craters get their equipment at crafting price but don't pay exp for it during character creation. Thats how Zaer has always done it. - As far as if crafting costs EXP I can't say but Zaer usually hands out level ups as story rewards in their complete for rather than as exp. If this game follows that trend it I recommend getting rid of crafting exp costs.

I know it might not make sense not to have access to all these spells given our characters' status and powers, but I do understand it from a balance/mechanics point if view. I was just  saying there's a cheaper way to have some spells than buy all of them in scroll form :)

It was a great point to bring up and I appreciate it. If Zaer goes that route I'll buy some with my starting gold even with cajoling my spellbook full once the game starts. So thanks ^_^

[HopeFox]

I don't mind whichever way we end up handling starting spellbooks. It's for my character's wife anyway, and it's not like she needs to spend money on anything else, like weapons or clothes.

I personally favour spending 50 gp per spell level for the privilege of copying them from another wizard's spellbook, and that's less work for both wizards involved than making a scroll.

[HopeFox]

I've finished my character's spells, so I'd say I'm good to go! I have a few finishing touches to make on my cohorts, but that's about it, now. The list is back here.

[Kunoichi]

...I need to kick myself into gear and get my characters done. ><; I've got the basic builds on my two cohorts worked out, it's just a matter of actually filling in the character sheets and picking out gear.

[Kolbrandr]

...I need to kick myself into gear and get my characters done. ><; I've got the basic builds on my two cohorts worked out, it's just a matter of actually filling in the character sheets and picking out gear.

I'm a bit in limbo until a couple of mechanical things are cleared up for my own stuff, if it would help, I definitely have time to fill out sheets and spend bling on gear if you want to just shoot me an outline of what you have in mind.

[PaleEnchantress]

Eternaldarkness, I just realized one particular (and most iconic) branch of my army is exceptionally synergistic with yours. How fun we are on the same size now. You're troops include lots of undead right?  My Cohort, The Forbidden One, is master of one of my schools of magic and leader of a section of my army that consists of Warmages that focus on Uttercold magic.

[eternaldarkness]

Eternaldarkness, I just realized one particular (and most iconic) branch of my army is exceptionally synergistic with yours. How fun we are on the same size now. You're troops include lots of undead right?  My Cohort, The Forbidden One, is master of one of my schools of magic and leader of a section of my army that consists of Warmages that focus on Uttercold magic.

Nope, all my followers are fiendish.

[Kunoichi]

I'm a bit in limbo until a couple of mechanical things are cleared up for my own stuff, if it would help, I definitely have time to fill out sheets and spend bling on gear if you want to just shoot me an outline of what you have in mind.

Alright.  I want to work out things for my main character and her son, my first cohort, on my own, but for the second cohort, one of her daughters, I certainly wouldn't mind getting a little help.  Her basic backstory is that she's following in her mother's footsteps as an acolyte (and sacred prostitute) of Luthic, but that at one point in her own career, she managed to charm her way into the good graces of a very powerful spirit, which then proceeded to grant her a rather unusual blessing.

Here's the small amount I've managed to get done for her stat sheet

Tunari, the Many-Armed
Obah-Blessed (Dungeon 136) Grey Orc
Chaos Monk 2/Paladin of Slaughter 3/Sacred Prostitute 5/Crusader 1/LA 2//Divine Bard 13
Size/Type:    Medium Humanoid (Orc)
Hit Dice:    0d0+0 (0 hp)
Initiative:    +0
Speed:    0 ft. (0 squares)
Armor Class:    10 (+0 Dex), touch 10, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple:    +0/+0
Attack:    Unarmed strike +0 melee (0d0+0)
Full Attack:    Unarmed strike +0 melee (0d0+0)
Space/Reach:    5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:    spells
Special Qualities:    
Saves:    Fort +0(+0), Ref +0(+0), Will +0(+0)
Abilities:    Str 0, Dex 0, Con 0, Int 0, Wis 0, Cha 0
Skills:    
Feats:    Sexy Kung Fu,
Environment:    
Alignment:    Chaotic evil
Treasure:    

The Obah-Blessed template can be found in Dungeon Magazine #136, but all it really grants is 4 extra arms, a +8 racial bonus on grapple checks, the Multiweapon Fighting feat as a free bonus feat, and Str +4, Dex +6, Con +4, Cha +6 for racial ability adjustments.  Being a Divine Bard means she'll need a Wisdom of at least 16 to cast all of her spells, but aside from that she's supposed to be pretty much entirely Charisma-based, and is intended to be primarily a support character.

[Kolbrandr]

Sure. Did you take the perk that builds their gear with pc wealth?

[Kunoichi]

No, I just took Fertility with no other perks or drawbacks.  Paying for a casting of Psychic Reformation costs only 280 gp, though, and is pretty good for temporarily picking up and then disposing of item creation feats.

[PaleEnchantress]

No, I just took Fertility with no other perks or drawbacks.  Paying for a casting of Psychic Reformation costs only 280 gp, though, and is pretty good for temporarily picking up and then disposing of item creation feats.

That's just a classic combination, I didn't do that this time since I'm using quite a few super classes in my cohorts.

EDIT, New stuff for Kunoichi! Oh, Since Jerion is a Bard there are actually a few things I discussed with Zaer that you might be interested in. One he confirmed that the bard spell in Heroes of Battle that projects your voice further does, indeed, increase the range of your Bardic music.  I would like to ask what the purpose of crusader 1 is? I ask because I wonder if you have considered possibly taking a prestige class that works with bardic music like effects on the non bard gestalt side?  War chanter gives Full BAB and could be worked in to your more martially inclined side.

EDIT EDIT: ALso we evil people get a vile version of words of creation's bardic music options. A custom feat Zaer made called "Dark Chorus" requires dark speech and works just like the bardic music options for words of creation, except the damage you take is half what you would take using WoC, but its vile instead of subdual.

[PaleEnchantress]

Still have some work to do on the boys but they are nearly done. Jerion and Forbidden One may even be fully done. I have a couple things I want to ask Zaer before saying they are finalized, though I always say up until the game begins I may change things. The Son needs the most work, including an image and a name.

Jerion the Ghost of Swan (Aka Jerion and Jerion)

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=282650

The most subtle and complicated and subversive among the elite generals of Astaroth's avatar. These twin boys both answer to the same name and  almost make a point of showing the sexual nature of their relationship. Jerion's voice is ambrosia, they view reality through a very warped lens. Whether their incomprehensible jokes and soft spoken ravings are complete delusions or dark insights into the nature of the world is a point of contention for many. Either way those he chooses to seek out often go as insane as he. Jerion is also one of the only people that seems to be able to say 'no' to Astaroth and survive. It's possible that he is *much* older than he seems.

The Forbidden One

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=284198

The Messenger, The Champion, The Teacher, if Astaroth has a preferred lover it would be The Forbidden One. He has the Olympian Physique prefered by her servants, but his pale visage is frozen in the icy embrace of undeath. He takes an active role in the magical school of Astaroths theomilitairy, but sometimes has a problem understanding the ridged schedule of mortals. While he says he is not of Nethereese origin himself, he did work a powerful High Arcanist of theirs named Tolodine. He is an expert war strategist and few rival him in the practical application of magical effects.

The Son

(Possible Image)



http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=280946

Astaroth's legitimate child, he is the culmination of her work in raising the perfect champion from her own flesh and blood. Many preceded him and just as many were killed for showing a flaw in either their ability or their devotion. He is a man of exceptional strength of body and mind even in his natural form, but powerful magic has been used to bigger than a house and stronger than an elder dragon. He leads Astaroth's "thought police". Citizens who do not display perfect love and obedience are given to him so they can be "enlightened" and accepted into Astaroth's loving fold. Like anything his mother needs of him, it is a job he is fully devoted to, but he truley relishes being able to fight in the frost lines of Astaroth's theomilitairy. He seldom ever covers his massively muscles body and the only thing larger then his gigantic hanging cock (bigger then a full grown man) is the frightening warhammer he uses to crush anyone stupid enough to get in the way. His fervor is not foolhardiness though as he always has several potential contingency plans. He would gladly sacrifice anything at his mother's (and lover's) command, but he knows he can do more for her while still alive and will not sacrifice himself needlessly. (Unless , of course, Astaroth told him to)

Edit: At the moment Myth weavers is down for maintenance. Bah i say!

[Kunoichi]

That's just a classic combination, I didn't do that this time since I'm using quite a few super classes in my cohorts.

EDIT, New stuff for Kunoichi! Oh, Since Jerion is a Bard there are actually a few things I discussed with Zaer that you might be interested in. One he confirmed that the bard spell in Heroes of Battle that projects your voice further does, indeed, increase the range of your Bardic music.  I would like to ask what the purpose of crusader 1 is? I ask because I wonder if you have considered possibly taking a prestige class that works with bardic music like effects on the non bard gestalt side?  War chanter gives Full BAB and could be worked in to your more martially inclined side.

EDIT EDIT: ALso we evil people get a vile version of words of creation's bardic music options. A custom feat Zaer made called "Dark Chorus" requires dark speech and works just like the bardic music options for words of creation, except the damage you take is half what you would take using WoC, but its vile instead of subdual.

Crusader 1 is mostly there to pick up a White Raven stance for the Song of the White Raven feat.  And also because the White Raven stance itself might be rather nice. ^^ Thank you for the note on that voice-projecting spell, though.  That should definitely come in handy.

[Kolbrandr]

EDIT, New stuff for Kunoichi! Oh, Since Jerion is a Bard there are actually a few things I discussed with Zaer that you might be interested in. One he confirmed that the bard spell in Heroes of Battle that projects your voice further does, indeed, increase the range of your Bardic music.  I would like to ask what the purpose of crusader 1 is? I ask because I wonder if you have considered possibly taking a prestige class that works with bardic music like effects on the non bard gestalt side?  War chanter gives Full BAB and could be worked in to your more martially inclined side.

Lets you take song of the white raven which lets you inspire courage as a swift action in my experience of people who mix in a ToB class into a bard gestalt, largely.

edit: super ninja'd to that! Appropriate to poster name.

[Kunoichi]

By the way, one quick question for Zaer about a feat Kolbrandr showed me that seems like it would fit the daughter's overall character concept.

In Dungeon Magazine #104, there's a feat called Mantle of Freedom, normally reserved for paladins of a particular chaotic good deity from the Greyhawk campaign setting, that basically allows the paladins that take it to add their Charisma bonus to Escape Artist checks, grapple checks, and Strength checks to break bonds, and gives a small sacred bonus to saves against effects that would hinder movement in any way.

Would it be possible for my character's daughter to take that feat, strip out the deity requirement, switch the sacred bonus to a profane bonus, and otherwise use it as written?

[PaleEnchantress]

Crusader 1 is mostly there to pick up a White Raven stance for the Song of the White Raven feat.  And also because the White Raven stance itself might be rather nice. ^^ Thank you for the note on that voice-projecting spell, though.  That should definitely come in handy.

I highly considered song of the white raven for Jerion. Reasons I didn't was not having feats or levels I felt were able to be sacrificed for it, and Zaer confirmed that it only works for bardic music and not things that are keyed off bardic music but are something else, like Jerion's Evangelist abilities.

5 Levels of war chanter would be cool for you, even if you decide its something for your future level ups. First when you have armies of followers the mass temp hit point song it gets it probably straight up doubling some of their HP. The real gem there though is Combine Songs, letting you actively maintain two bard songs at a time. In practice that means more then two bard songs in effect at a time since many last a bit after you stop performing.

Technically I shouldn't be helping you, my enemy. This daughter of yours is a very effective counter to The Ghost of Swan. Finally someone will have a use for counter-song.  People may consider it useless but most of them will never be in a mass combat with a Dvati evangelist on the other side. And Unforutnately her will saves are too good for him to jump inside and control her.

Edit: Id imagine Zaer will agree to that feat, he's usually very good with "I want to use this  without the flavor requirements". We will see for sure when he posts, of course.

[Kunoichi]

Well, since you seem to be somewhat impressed with my daughter, what do you think of my son?  I don't have his character sheet completely worked up yet, but so far he's turning out to be quite the Legendary Leader, with excellent Strength and the Might Makes Right feat allowing him to keep a firm handle on my army.  With him on the job, I'm pretty sure I'll never have to worry about morale. ^^