Topic: Black Lagoon Anime/Manga based RPG (Revised, NC:H, action oriented)

[Writersblockade]

The M79 Grenade Launcher is a beautifully reliable and rugged implement of war and destruction. :)

#thetruthisinthere

[Daril]

I'd been thinking of going with a couple M203s.  Though I suppose the M79 has the advantage if the operator is planning to use something other than a M16 as their primary weapon (or doesn't want their M16 to be muzzle heavy).  I could replace one of the M203s with a M79.

I'd been thinking the contents of the Lucky Strike's arms locker(s) would be along these lines, btw.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

One (or two) M2 Heavy Machine Gun
One SPG-9 73mm Recoilless Gun
One M60 General Purpose Machine Gun
Two M203 grenade launchers (mounted on M16A1 rifles)
One (or two) CAR-15 Carbine
Two shotguns (one configured to double as a line thrower?)
Various sub machine guns (about one per crewmember)

There would probably be a few strictly personal weapons that belong to specific crewmembers as well (any sniper rifles would probably fall into this category).  Actually, I can see the CAR-15(s) and some of the various sub machine guns being semi-personal as well, with various crewmembers having particular favorites.

Does that seem about right to you guys given the kind of work our crew tends to do?  (Well, okay, I already know Sessha favors a MK-19 over the SPG-9...)

[Sessha]

 I can also tell you Alex will never use ANY of the 5.56 guns in that locker. She'd take one of the shotguns before that happens. By the way if you can get rounds for M203 and M79s you can get rounds for a Mk. 19. Again also it's nearly thirty pounds lighter than the SPG-9. (If that comes up Alex will never fire it. Waste of time and manpower in her opinion.) Also a fairly easy way to get ahold of an Mk. 19. During the Vietnam Conflict the US sold many PBRs to other nations, plus any that were left in Vietnam when the US pulled out.

[Neysha]

I'd been thinking of going with a couple M203s.  Though I suppose the M79 has the advantage if the operator is planning to use something other than a M16 as their primary weapon (or doesn't want their M16 to be muzzle heavy).  I could replace one of the M203s with a M79.

I'd been thinking the contents of the Lucky Strike's arms locker(s) would be along these lines, btw.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

One (or two) M2 Heavy Machine Gun
One SPG-9 73mm Recoilless Gun
One M60 General Purpose Machine Gun
Two M203 grenade launchers (mounted on M16A1 rifles)
One (or two) CAR-15 Carbine
Two shotguns (one configured to double as a line thrower?)
Various sub machine guns (about one per crewmember)

There would probably be a few strictly personal weapons that belong to specific crewmembers as well (any sniper rifles would probably fall into this category).  Actually, I can see the CAR-15(s) and some of the various sub machine guns being semi-personal as well, with various crewmembers having particular favorites.

The M-14 rifle is still used by the Navy as a line thrower. That could be an interesting small arm to add to the locker. Plus it's a larger caliber and longer ranged then most of the assault rifles we'd have in stock. Plus it's still a common weapon to use.

Does that seem about right to you guys given the kind of work our crew tends to do?  (Well, okay, I already know Sessha favors a MK-19 over the SPG-9...)

Well as you know, I prefer the SPG-9 because it's more aesthetically pleasing in regards to the utilizing a Soviet weapon on a Soviet Patrol Boat and finding ammunition and replacement parts is probably easier and cheaper since these weapons are widely used even now by pirates and insurgent groups worldwide. Plus I agree with Daril in the weapon being less capable adds more tension and drama to it all. Plus it almost looks like a naval cannon, which is cool!

[Sessha]

 Me I rather like the idea of the contradiction between the two myself. American weapons on Soviet vehicles. Soviet reliability, American ingenuity. At least that's my thinking. Though to be honest Alex will need her own launcher since none of the M203s would fit her weapon of choice which is the G3A3. I don't like the SPG-9 for the reasons I already stated which by the way an SPG-9 is not a small arm, it's a mounted heavy weapon. Hell she would almost be tempted one of these days to dump the thing overboard once she got ahold of a Mk. 19.

[Daril]

I'm pretty sure a round from a MK-19 can't make the sort of hole in a target vessel's hull that a round from a SPG-9 could. It's probably best to view it as a small artillery piece that can be stowed out of sight when not in use.

If we switch one of the M203s to a M79 Alex could borrow that.  If that's the case I might include a second CAR-15 though.  The CAR-15s would be larger than a lot of submachine guns and really unpleasant to fire in a confined space, but they would provide a useful alternative for situations where the enemy might be wearing body armor.

Speaking of submachine guns, anyone have anything in particular they want included in the mix?  I don't think my character would be inclined to use it very much, but I was thinking of throwing an old Tommy gun in among a few more modern models. 

[Writersblockade]

My guy is sticking with the one listed on the sheet

[Sessha]

 A small side note I found out. It seems for a short period of time in the early to mid-90s H&K did produce an MP-5 in 10mm auto. So yeah Alex will have one of those bad boys for herself to use.

 On a different front I was sadden to learn that SIG's entry into the 10mm market with the P220 variant only carries 8 in the  box. So I guess I'm sticking with Glock in future for more modern gun bunny games. A sadness really.

[Daril]

Okay, this is an issue I've been meaning to address but keep putting off (partly because I've prioritized addressing other issues, partly because it seems to be a touchy subject). I want to give people a choice with their character's weaponry, but I'd also kind of like it to fit the setting too.  We're playing a ragtag bunch of pirates/smugglers in a Southeast Asian setting awash in leftovers from WWII, Vietnam, and the Cold War.  Yet pretty much everyone (well, the three players who have been specific about their choices) seems to be going for new or rare or expensive models (bonus points if the model was sold exclusively to US government agencies or fires ammunition that's probably close to impossible to find in Southeast Asia).  Surely there are other models you three like that would fit the setting well?  There are lots of interesting choices out there.

(If everyone else is dead set on being equipped like elite American agents/Special Forces maybe I should be the one to change my approach, but I want to at least make the issue I have here clear.)

Anyway, I'd been thinking it would be good to get things moving (even though I'm going to have limited availability later this week) so I figured maybe we should get a clear battle plan worked out so that people understand what their character's role is and can get posting.  Here's my thought on that:

I was thinking of starting with having the crew break the heavy weapons out of concealment, but with Alex already doing maintenance on the M2 it seems it's already out and set up.  So it might be more a matter of grabbing personal gear.

I figure a good plan would be to move in on the freighter, demand it stop and surrender, then rake the bridge windows with machine gun fire and threaten to put some holes in the hull if those aboard it don't comply.    After that, we can leave a crewmember or two behind to provide cover while the boarding party goes over by dingy and secures the vessel (perhaps dealing with a few guys who aren't inclined to surrender in the process).  Any volunteers for staying behind to provide cover?

Also, knowing who's got what station when the boat is called to action would be handy as well.  For the initial stage, I figure we'll need a gunner on both the M2 and the SPG-9 and someone on helm.  The rest could use small arms to help provide cover.  Not sure if Cash would be hands on with one of those roles or the one giving the orders.

[Sorrow Singer]

If were ready to start up we should get an Ooc for the planning stage fired up, and launch the Ic when your ready. Aya's been pretty much established for a month now. As a side not she's not terribly picky when it comes to fire arms. and is willing enough to use the weapon of a dead man rather than heft too many weapons into combat. If you want some more technical selections ill have to do some research, or someone can recommend a basic side arm suitable for the era.

[Neysha]

If were ready to start up we should get an Ooc for the planning stage fired up, and launch the Ic when your ready. Aya's been pretty much established for a month now. As a side not she's not terribly picky when it comes to fire arms. and is willing enough to use the weapon of a dead man rather than heft too many weapons into combat. If you want some more technical selections ill have to do some research, or someone can recommend a basic side arm suitable for the era.

Well there were a lot of cool Vietnam War era handguns.

Type 51 and 54 Pistols: Chinese versions of the Tokarev TT-33.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_54_pistol

Type 59 Pistol: Chinese version of the Makarov PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_pistol

Browning Hi-Power: Used by the Commonwealth troops more then Americans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power

Colt M1911 Pistol: Obviously the most common pistol used by US Armed Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

Smith & Wesson Model 12: Common revolver issued to US Armed Forces. Aluminum alloy version of the more common Smith & Wesson Model 10.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_12

Smith & Wesson Model 10: The most popular revolver of the 20th century. An extremely common sidearm in the Western world and beyond before people started eschewing revolvers for automatic pistols.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10

[Sessha]

 So where exactly was the vote for the decision between the Mk. 19 and the SPG-9?

 And yes there are lots of choices out there but I wasn't impressed by them, hence why I didn't choose them.

[Writersblockade]

I'd like to think that I was being reasonable with my weapon selection, especially since my first go-around was deemed too dutch-like. The MP5-N, I believe, was around during the 80s, as well as the glock 18. Someone can confirm for me. What I'm personally thinking is that while we are, in fact, a group of people suddenly thrown together in an episode of the real world, but with guns, we mostly have a pretty decent military or underworld background. The only old school weapons being used would be the ones that work. AK-47? Fuck yeah I'd let those on the boat, but it's not completely beyond the realm of possibility that the black market would have a shit-ton of american made weapons not doing anything other than waiting to be sold to the guy with the most money. Also not a stretch of the imagination to have Cash get his Agency contacts to throw him a bone or two now and then, especially since they trouble him still with jobs that have to be handled off the books.

[Neysha]

MP-5 probably isn't going to be that hard to find in Roanapur I'm sure. It's not Vietnam War era... but it's no big deal really.

I do like Daril's suggestion of a Thompson for a submachine gun of course. Those SMG's are amazing to fire, especially if you're using the correct low power ammunition.

And I officially vote for the SPG-9 right out of the gate. I think it makes a lot of sense, especially thematically at this juncture. Same with the M-60 IMHO. Always room for improvement later... up to and including Alex dumping the SPG-9 overboard if we get an automatic grenade launcher, which sounds like it'd be a hilarious plot nugget.

And the CAR-15 sounds lovely to me, especially since that's one of Leah's mainstay weapons.

She does have a fancy Sig handgun of course but I figure that handguns are more personal weapons to be honest so having 'nice' ones might make sense with regards to some of the crew. It's a prestige thing as well in having a nice modern handgun even if it's just hanging out in your holster for show... most of the time.

[Daril]

I will reply to this tomorrow afternoon.  I just wiped out a whole post by clicking on a link.

[Sorrow Singer]

Ayas Kit will include a pair of well maintained Colt m1911's. Though one serves as more of spare. Preferring to stay light on her feat she doesn't typically carry more than her sword a brace of throwing knives and one of the pistols at a time. Though that certainly doesn't mean she can't, if the job demands it.

[Sessha]

...seems to be going for new or rare or expensive models (bonus points if the model was sold exclusively to US government agencies or fires ammunition that's probably close to impossible to find in Southeast Asia).  Surely there are other models you three like that would fit the setting well?  There are lots of interesting choices out there.

 First off the Barrett M82 has been around since the late 80s. It's not uncommon to find it in a small outfit like it was found in. Plus it's no longer being produced, as for ammunition for it well guess what? You have access to ammunition for the M2 you have access to ammunition for the M82. They use the same damn round, exactly the same round.

 The SAKO TRG-41 using the .338 Lapua round? Yeah here's something funny about that one. It's available to both military AND civilian shooters the world over. So I guess that solves the issue of that ammo now doesn't it?

 The G3A3 would in fact be one of the simpler guns to find ammo for. It uses the 7.62x51mm NATO round. Which by the way it's been around since the 1950s with more than 7000 variants made. I think we can find one in Roanapur. Hell with the German Army dumping the things in the mid-90s in favor of the G36 getting one would be easy.

 The only one that would have an issue getting ahold of would be the ammo for the Desert Eagle .50 AE. Cause it uses a special type of ammo but as we've seen in Black Lagoon it's not that rare. After all the Church of Violence can get access to them for that old hag to fire off in her own Desert Eagle.

 The 10mm auto rounds for the Glock 20? Well guess what there is a reason Glock still makes the Glock 20 model because they still make the 10mm auto cartridge, which again is available to the general public for purchase. It's uncommon yes but not rare. Even H&K still make parts for their K&K MP-5/10 despite not making the gun anymore in favor of the more popular 9mm version*hacks up lunch* Sorry about that thinking about that round made me queasy.

 As for the SIG P226 and it's .357 SIG round? Oh yeah that's been made since the early 90s. The .357 SIG (1994) was the first modern bottleneck commercial handgun cartridge since the early 1960s.." Please take note of one particular word in there. Now say it with me "Commercial" What's that mean? It means it's available to the general public so getting ahold of it? Simple.

There are lots of interesting choices out there.

 Yet none that interested me.

(If everyone else is dead set on being equipped like elite American agents/Special Forces maybe I should be the one to change my approach, but I want to at least make the issue I have here clear.)

 No I am quite frankly enjoying this particular setting just fine. It doesn't mean we can't be equipped with stuff.

I figure a good plan would be to move in on the freighter, demand it stop and surrender, then rake the bridge windows with machine gun fire and threaten to put some holes in the hull if those aboard it don't comply.    After that, we can leave a crewmember or two behind to provide cover while the boarding party goes over by dingy and secures the vessel (perhaps dealing with a few guys who aren't inclined to surrender in the process).  Any volunteers for staying behind to provide cover?

 This is a fine battle plan. It just means that only two people are going over on the ship while three stay behind and man the guns. Or well two of them do while the third acts as a loader and our mechanic stays down in the engine room doing her job.

And I officially vote for the SPG-9 right out of the gate. I think it makes a lot of sense, especially thematically at this juncture. Same with the M-60 IMHO. Always room for improvement later... up to and including Alex dumping the SPG-9 overboard if we get an automatic grenade launcher, which sounds like it'd be a hilarious plot nugget.

 Where as I officially cast my vote for the Mk. 19 Grenade Launcher from the outset. Which if we go with that SPG-9 Alex will continue to call it a piece of crap and will never fire nor load it.

[Neysha]

Leah can probably stay on the ship.  By default she's the least capable in all forms of combat and possesses the most mechanical aptitude by default,  which isn't very much but more then anyone else in the current crew.

After looking over those Vietnam era handguns, I might even switch out her Sig for something more Vietnam era.  While it's certainly possible she could have a Sig, something more basic like a revolver would make more sense in regards to her situation. Especially since it's her backup and she's not particularly proficient with them.

This discussion does lay to rest the concerns that in a crew such as this that someone would be considered superflous which always struck me as a silly concern anyhow. :p

[Sessha]

 Honestly I would stick with the SIG. It's a good weapon and it's has many variants among which is a sub-compact. Plus I'll admit I'd like to see a female character who's not a main line fighter type use something that isn't like a S&W .38 Special or something like that. Honestly I'd stick with the P228. It's a good gun for what it is.

[Neysha]

Oh I know. I love the Sig I own. It's a pleasure to fire. Favorite handgun by far that I've used in my extremely limited experience.

She probably could've gotten one recently anyhow despite using a boring revolver during most of her travels. And sometimes carrying two backup weapons isn't exactly uncommon in action settings like these. It'll also make for a fun scene during the inevitable "show us your weapons" scene that'll inevitably happen and require a solid paragraph for each crewmember to detail and rightly so.  :p

[Sessha]

 Oh yeah Alex has three handguns at her disposal and in descending order of damage output. Her weakest being her SIG.

[Daril]

@Sessha -All you needed to do to get a vote on the MK-19 vs SPG-9 was say you wanted to take it to a vote when I suggested taking it to a vote.  But when I say "we can put it to a vote if you really want to" I'm probably not going to do so unless you confirm that yes, you want to do so.

I have more of a problem with some of your choices than others.  Ammo wise, in production does not mean readily available everywhere, especially parts of the world where you'd be lucky to find anyone using a particular caliber.  Getting someone to smuggle something in specifically for you is going to get expensive, especially compared to calibers where cheap surplus is readily available.

The biggest objection I have is definitely to the MP-5/10 though due to it being made specifically for US Law Enforcement.  I would consider a 9mm MP5 custom converted to .45 reasonable (even though I'm trying to get away from MP5s a bit), but it seems you consider .45 a boring caliber in addition to considering 9mm too small? 

@Writersblockade -While I'd like to see less MP5s (ditto Glocks and SiGs) its mainly the fact that its the model that was made specifically for the US DOD that I have an issue with.  I might have preferred to see Cash use something like the Swedish K that was favored by US covert ops types in Vietnam, but a MP5 model that wasn't made specifically for a US Government agency would be acceptable.

As for old versus new, soldiers tend to have strong loyalty to weapons that work, and the new isn't necessarily much better than the old -heck, there are people who consider the M16A1 a better assault rifle than the M16A2 model.  This is not to say the crew shouldn't have any new toys, but why spend a lot of time and money to acquire something new when old faithful is a proven performer?

Of course, Cash could be the type who is really into having the latest new toys.  If that's the case maybe I should be rethinking the contents of that arms locker.  I'd kind of prefer not to go that route though.

@Neysha -I'd like to get some variety but a Sig is probably fine.  Though, btw, if it's largely for show why not go for the pimped out look?  Get a hard chromed M1911 with pearl grips or something? 

[Writersblockade]

*laughs* If I have to change my glock out, I'm going duel-weilding Castor Troy gold-plated muthafuckin 1911s. Jesus those things were sweet as pancakes in bed!

I'm okay with the non-DOD MP5. I'd change it to the MP5K. It's small and won't cause too much trouble with storage. I'd also like to have the briefcase accessory in case I need someone to bring it with them on a negotiation ^_^

[Sessha]

@Sessha -All you needed to do to get a vote on the MK-19 vs SPG-9 was say you wanted to take it to a vote when I suggested taking it to a vote.  But when I say "we can put it to a vote if you really want to" I'm probably not going to do so unless you confirm that yes, you want to do so.

I have more of a problem with some of your choices than others.  Ammo wise, in production does not mean readily available everywhere, especially parts of the world where you'd be lucky to find anyone using a particular caliber.  Getting someone to smuggle something in specifically for you is going to get expensive, especially compared to calibers where cheap surplus is readily available.

The biggest objection I have is definitely to the MP-5/10 though due to it being made specifically for US Law Enforcement.  I would consider a 9mm MP5 custom converted to .45 reasonable (even though I'm trying to get away from MP5s a bit), but it seems you consider .45 a boring caliber in addition to considering 9mm too small? 

When you mentioned before you were going to put it to a vote I was waiting for you to open the polls, but if you needed me to say something then fine call the damn vote already.

 Actually all these ammo types ARE readily available. That's the point I'm making here Daril. The fact they are available commercially means there is a stockpile somewhere. It means I can walk into a gun store and buy that round off the shelf. If that can be done that means it doesn't have to be smuggled into the place. As for the MP-/10 it was only a small fantasy at best. I was really just thinking of having Alex go in for CQB with something like a French SPAS 12 or heck even an AA-12 loaded with shot or slug haven't decided on that.. Nothing beats a shotgun in close ranges against unarmored targets. Again the Barrett uses the same type of ammunition as the M2. I mean literally it uses the exactly same round. So if you can get ammo for an M2 you get ammo for an M82. The biggest problem is getting hold of the .50 AE for the Desert Eagle. Which for Alex is a gun of last resort. It's got the least amount of ammo of any of her handguns and is the most expensive to replace. I'll give you that but the others, no getting  a hold of it shouldn't be that much harder. I'm also going to point out that the ammo for her G3A3 once more IS readily available in large quantities. It's a fricken 7.62x51mm NATO round. With the German government practically dumping most of their stocks of G3s in favor the 5.56 G36 all that ammo for those G3s has to go somewhere.

 As for smaller 9mm yes it is too small for me. It doesn't do enough damage. Go back and listen to the stories of the guys who fought the Battle of Mogadishu. They talk about how they would have empty half their magazines against some of those Somalis because they were hocked up on things like PVC or it's native equivalent. The big reason I like the bigger rounds Daril is they destroy more tissue on the way in. The bigger the hole you can blow through someone the less meat there is to support them. You know "In like a nickel out like a pizza." Also the biggest reason for the development of the .45 ACP was to provide a sidearm for the US officers that had more knockdown power than their rifles could produce. Also the US Government has begun to call into question the effectiveness of the 5.56 round and the 9mm M9.

 Also as far as other people's gun choices are concerned leave off them. 

 

[Writersblockade]

I think it was Khat, or something like that. (least I remember that from Black Hawk Down, which was btw a good movie AND a good read) Yeah, high on shit, you can take a few rounds and keep moving. With someone with her back-story, wanting to always lean towards higher caliber items makes sense. Kill it til it's dead lol

I'd like to say that at this point, the conversation about weapon loadouts are purely from a point of style and atmosphere. Unless we are seriously incorporating a game system that attaches damage, range, rate of fire, and targeting pluses or minuses into this, then it really doesn't matter lmao. The more complicated we make the gun part of this, the worse it'll get when the bullets start firing. We're going to be having pages of back and forth over why or why not regarding a certain event. It'll drag down what was originally intended as a fast paced game, and we'll all be grumbling over the shit. Trust me. Been there.