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Author Topic: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win  (Read 1844 times)

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Offline The OverlordTopic starter

McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« on: October 23, 2008, 12:34:38 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081023/ap_on_el_pr/mccain


Y'know John, it's really ironic, because at this late point, the veritable eleventh hour of the election race, this is exactly what I was thinking about you. Go figure.

By the way....if I hear one more candidate invoke 'Joe the Plumber' I swear I'm going to jack someone upside the head.  >:(


Quote
ORMOND BEACH, Fla. Republican John McCain, kicking off a cross-state bus tour aimed at keeping vote-rich Florida from swinging to the Democrats, on Thursday accused rival Barack Obama of saying "anything to get elected."

The Arizona senator said Obama had added a work requirement to his proposal to grant a 10 percent universal mortgage credit. A top Obama aide said the campaign added the requirement two weeks ago to avoid charges that the proposal provided "welfare" to non-working Americans.

"Thirteen days to go, and he changed his tax plan because the American people had learned the truth about it and they didn't like it," McCain told a crowd at lumber yard. "It's another example that he'll say anything to get elected."

An Obama spokesman accused McCain of distortion and said the Democrat's plan always included a work requirement, although it was discussed only within the campaign or to reporters who inquired about the particulars of the plan.

"Last week, Sen. McCain called Obama's tax cuts for working people welfare. Today he's claiming Sen. Obama doesn't do enough to help the unemployed," said Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor. "The only thing consistent about these attacks is how dishonest they are. All of Sen. Obama's tax credits only go to workers and they always have."

While criticizing Obama, McCain also targeted his own party. He complained the Bush administration was not yet buying up mortgages so homeowners facing foreclosure could renegotiate them at a more favorable interest rates. The GOP nominee has proposed a $300 billion plan, but a similar one is included in the $700 billion Wall Street bailout recently passed by Congress. Both McCain and Obama voted for that plan.

"I call on the administration to act now and buy up these mortgages and keep people in their homes," McCain said before singling out Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. "And why is the secretary of the Treasury not ordering them to do that?"

The charges came at the start of a bus tour targeting blue-collar Florida workers who are like the Ohio plumber, Joe Wurzelbacher, who has become the central thematic element in speeches by McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

From Ormond Beach on the Atlantic Coast to Sarasota on the Gulf Coast, McCain was criticizing Obama's tax plans and promoting his own proposals to cut taxes for individuals and businesses. After his stop at All Star Building Materials, he was moving on to a doctor's office, a restaurant and a farm.

"Whether it's Joe the Plumber in Ohio or Joe over here," McCain said, pointing into the crowd, "we shouldn't be taxing our small businesses more, as Sen. Obama wants to do. We need to be helping them expand their businesses and create jobs."

Obama, speaking Wednesday in Virginia, rebutted such criticism, arguing that his tax plan would not raise taxes on small businesses and working couples earning less than $250,000 a year.

"Let's be clear who John McCain is fighting for. He is not fighting for Joe the Plumber. He's fighting for Joe the Hedge Fund Manager," Obama said. "If you make less than a quarter of a million dollars a year which includes 98 percent of small-business owners you won't see your taxes increase one single dime."

McCain's route not only covered the vote-rich "I-4 Corridor" through Orlando, in central Florida, but included informal stops between the more formal rallies. The goal was to boost McCain in a state George W. Bush won in 2000 and 2004 but which Obama is threatening to seize despite a strong GOP machine and the Arizona senator's endorsement by Gov. Charlie Crist.

Florida offers 27 electoral votes, fourth-most in the country. A total of 270 is needed to win the presidency.

Recent polls show Obama, a first-term senator from Illinois, with a slight lead over McCain. Nationally, an Associated Press-GfK poll shows McCain and Obama essentially even among likely voters, possible evidence of a tightened race 12 days before the Nov. 4 election.

McCain's first stop in Florida, for coffee with Crist and three business owners from the Daytona Beach area, proved fruitful. Mike Murray, owner of the Starlite Diner, said he was concerned about both candidates raising taxes but planned to support McCain on Election Day.

"He's got the experience," Murray said as the candidate sat at a nearby booth. "I'm comfortable with him. I grew up knowing his name."

___

On the Net:

McCain: http://www.johnmccain.com

Obama: http://www.barackobama.com

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2008, 12:38:59 PM »

Aww Jezus H...WTH, can someone bump this into poli/religion?  >:(

Offline Inkidu

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2008, 12:54:57 PM »
Besides the fact you are way off there buddy.

Eh, all politicians do it. It's just whoever does it first runs the risk. I mean all political races have this in one shape form or fashion. It's par for the course.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2008, 09:31:01 PM »
I've already stated the thread got posted to the wrong forum.

And for the record, at this point McCain is a flatout lair. I've watched the debates, I know what Obama actually said. McCain/Palin have taken the GOP to a new low, but it's their race to lose at this point.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2008, 09:34:42 PM »
Take a look at FactCheck if you want to compare the spin to the outright lies.  McCain/Palin are NOT on the winning end of that comparison!

And spin is one thing, but outright lying is wrong, period.  Blatant lies should be punishable as slander, imo.

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2008, 08:36:30 AM »
Both Major Party candidates will say anything to get elected.

What would show me courage is an honest candidate who would say the truth, no matter how hard it is for us to accept it, and actually continually support concrete positions, no matter what geographic part of the nation they are in when they are campaigning.

We don't get that. Instead, we get designer soundbites based on your region.


Offline Moondazed

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2008, 08:49:45 AM »
Not only can they not tell the truth, they can't have a genuine reaction, as the reaction to Dean's outburst showed :)  I know what you mean, the system is frustrating, but I find the people who are too lazy/apathetic/busy to pay attention MUCH more frustrating!

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2008, 09:09:25 AM »
Yeah, that too. I mean, really, your vote does count, and being informed about the decision matters. It's what I have explained to my kids as well. Participate, but learn about the participation.

I think that we as people forget sometimes that the politicians are people like is, a la Dean's reaction, and that sometimes expression is good for you.

Instead we jump all over it.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2008, 09:17:32 AM »
So will McCain face it both candidates and parties are liars and do not care about the American People.

We need to cut the Federal budget hard and raise taxes its that simple, they should just put the truth out there - tell the American People we have to sacrifice and its going to hurt everyone and stop pussyfooting around.

Offline Zakharra

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2008, 10:29:06 AM »
 
Quote
raise taxes its that simple,

 I disagree with that statement. Taxes are too high already. Cut the damned pork barrel spending and the budget will come much more under control.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2008, 12:02:20 PM »
No it won't we have a $11+ trillion dollar debt, we have had deficit spending 24 out of 26 years and the government is TOO big.

Now I agree I should have rephrased that to diversify taxes to cover everyone for one eliminate the Earned Income Tax Credit handout I don't care how poor you are you should pay something if you can I would add another tax category say 5% for the very poor. With a minimum tax of say $10. Then expand the income taxable for Social Security and fix the rate that is given to one amount for everyone to be the same regardless of how much was paid in - say $1500 with bi-annual COLA adjustments.

Then go through EVERY department of the Federal Government if one is duplicated by all the states or could be done by a State seriously scale it back or eliminate it - there are several that could go like the Department of Educations and the EPA (there I would scale it back alot to just handle interstate environmental matters and those on Federal lands) and the FDA (reduce their mandates and the size). Even Federal Prisons if a crime is also a crime inside a State say killing a Federal Officer happened in California let the State charge, try, sentence and incarcerate him why do this at the Federal level. You could do this for likely 90% of crimes.

You folks have to stop thinking small we have to pay off a massive debt and that means spending 20% less than we take in after balancing the budget - that is going to hurt many people but to be honest must be done. So I feel why these two are equally guilty of saying anything to win just Obama sounds less desperate.

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2008, 12:36:56 PM »

 I disagree with that statement. Taxes are too high already. Cut the damned pork barrel spending and the budget will come much more under control.

I have a couple of questions hun.   One if taxes are not raised at the Federal level to pay off the debt.   Then where is the money found.  Oh that is right.   The states are left to fend for themselves.   What was that, higher property taxes,  higher state taxes,  higher county taxes.  Lay offs in most  states to meet budgets.   An the largest populous begging for 7 billion so can finish the fiscal year.  So the money has to come from somewhere.  Yep if the top 5% has to pay more, then I am in favor of that.   Instead of seeing everything else go up.  And the bottom 95 percent having to pick up the tab. 



Oh and how about some oversight on the markets.   I mean we the people are giving wall street 700 billions dollars to bail their butts out of their screw up.   An the same fools that blundered say give us the money, trust us. No oversight,  we know what were doing, yea right.

(wall street includes the financial and mortgage companies.

And finally diverging off track but in the same realm.  The energy dependence on oil.   How the hell does the oil companies make record profits the last few years.   Yet the only solution we get from any of the politicians is drill for more oil here.  When it only accounts for 3%. An the reason for the non ethanol  conversions is it cost too much with corn.   

So why then, do we not use sugar cane.  Since it seems to work for Brazil, since the 1970's opec crisis's.   Where they are no longer dependent on opec.  Yet instead of doing this and getting farmers to grow sugar cane.  Instead of the federal program of paying them not to grow   Because too much is grown.   It would save money, you think with the federal budget.   An then you can link building refineries for conversion to the tax breaks for the big oil companies. 

Then on the health care.   McCain screams that Obama is going to raise taxes.   True for the top 5 percent.  But he will raise your taxes himself.   That so called $5000 kickback will be taxable.   An the removing of fines for employers not having workers health insurance.  Will drive up the cost of insurance.  Thus that money given be negilable.   As well as driving up the ranks of uninsured.    So I agree with Obama on the health care, having the federal government negotiate with health providers.   Thus it would drive off down the price.   So if people want to call it a tax then so what.  I rather pay $200 a month for a family with a federal health tax.  Then the $600-$800 a month.  Because I don't have strength in numbers to bargain with.   

It is not about being for the left or right.  I consider myself middle.  I am tired of the extremes.  I am not voting this election.  My state it does not matter either way.  Obama will win it.   Neither one excites me.  John, I favor towards making right decisions towards the wars were in.  Barack, his health care.   Which is better then what my choice of candidate this election.   





Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2008, 03:50:40 PM »
Thank you for the thread bump moondazed ....I apparently was in la-la land when I posted it, I swear to god I thought it was poli/religion. Too much whiskey methinks...  :-[

Offline Zakharra

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2008, 06:35:10 PM »
Quote
I have a couple of questions hun.   One if taxes are not raised at the Federal level to pay off the debt.   Then where is the money found.  Oh that is right.   The states are left to fend for themselves.   What was that, higher property taxes,  higher state taxes,  higher county taxes.  Lay offs in most  states to meet budgets.   An the largest populous begging for 7 billion so can finish the fiscal year.  So the money has to come from somewhere.  Yep if the top 5% has to pay more, then I am in favor of that.   Instead of seeing everything else go up.  And the bottom 95 percent having to pick up the tab.

 Most of the Federal Income taxes are paid by the rich. They pay for over half of the take from the Income taxes already. As it stands now, about 1/2 of the US adults do not pay Income taxes at all. They get a rebate every year. Which makes it odd that there are always calls for the rich to pay more. They pay a lot right now. By percentage of money taken in, they pay far more than their share.

 A huge amount of money can be saved by cutting out many of the programs Congressmen add to every bill that passed their sticky fingers. Also governmental departments can be trimmed too. There is way too much money spent on many of them and any duplicate departments and agencies need to be cut. Like the alphabet soup agencies. They need to be broken and condensed into a few, not the dozens that exist now.

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2008, 07:24:28 PM »
I've already stated the thread got posted to the wrong forum.

And for the record, at this point McCain is a flatout lair. I've watched the debates, I know what Obama actually said. McCain/Palin have taken the GOP to a new low, but it's their race to lose at this point.
I hate to say it but: Lying in politics! Oh no the sacred institution. Just because they're flat-out about it or not doesn't matter.

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2008, 09:26:48 PM »
Most of the Federal Income taxes are paid by the rich. They pay for over half of the take from the Income taxes already. As it stands now, about 1/2 of the US adults do not pay Income taxes at all. They get a rebate every year. Which makes it odd that there are always calls for the rich to pay more. They pay a lot right now. By percentage of money taken in, they pay far more than their share.

 A huge amount of money can be saved by cutting out many of the programs Congressmen add to every bill that passed their sticky fingers. Also governmental departments can be trimmed too. There is way too much money spent on many of them and any duplicate departments and agencies need to be cut. Like the alphabet soup agencies. They need to be broken and condensed into a few, not the dozens that exist now.

I would agree with your call to end such things as 'earned income credit'   That money can go to better use.   However, your case on 50%, the top pays more then the bottom half.  That is a reflective of the current economic policies.   How the disparity between poor and rich has grown and the middle class has shrunk.   So those that have, bare the the burden of society.   

Is it fair, no not really.   But sometimes people need to think past themselves.   And look at the greater good of the whole.   So what is one less home, one less time share in Florida.   

Or perhaps you favor a regressive tax, where the burden is tossed solely upon the bottom 50%.  And as were at it, we should do away with unions.  And we shall also do away with unemployment benefits.   Really no need for those.   Oh heck, just do away with all restrictions. And of course any student loans for those that come from a bottom 50%, put on hold.  We'll save money there.  Really they don't deserve it.  After all they rarely pay it back.   

But we could go to a flat tax across the board.   Yet again the bottom 50% gets screwed.  For if it is raised say such as the cap level of Hong Kong at 16%.  While the loss of revue from the top.  That just fuel the deficit. 

The one I like is consumption tax.  Do away with the income tax.  That would be the fairest. 

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2008, 11:19:50 PM »
I hate to say it but: Lying in politics! Oh no the sacred institution. Just because they're flat-out about it or not doesn't matter.

It matters to me.  I can't state an outright lie without facing slander charges.  Why are they exempt?  And while I think it's wrong to 'spin' things, outright lying is disgraceful.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2008, 03:12:46 AM »
I hate to say it but: Lying in politics! Oh no the sacred institution. Just because they're flat-out about it or not doesn't matter.

Problem is, McCain has called Obama on things that were a flagrantly obvious lie. He's not even subtle about it anymore.

Despite constant claims to the contrary that he won't be a third Bush term, a McCain presidency is going to install a lot of the same cronies into high places from the extensive Bush/Reagan hierarchy. It will be four more years of corruption and abuse of power and you really, really have to have your head buried deep in the sand to not realize it...to the point that I question the intellect of anyone who argue for them. At this point Palin is flat out lying on an outrageous scale.

Anyone that can honestly defend the core cronies of the GOP at this point I insist really doesn't know what the hell has been going on...or they do know and they're also digging like rats for ways to justify it.

I'm sure the other side has spewed their share of mistruths, but after eight years of miserable failures and both acts of environmental terrorism and crimes against humanity, from where I stand the GOP is so tainted I assume anything they say is a lie until proven correct.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 03:13:49 AM by The Overlord »

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2008, 01:17:43 PM »
I would agree with your call to end such things as 'earned income credit'   That money can go to better use.   However, your case on 50%, the top pays more then the bottom half.  That is a reflective of the current economic policies.   How the disparity between poor and rich has grown and the middle class has shrunk.   So those that have, bare the the burden of society.   

Is it fair, no not really.   But sometimes people need to think past themselves.   And look at the greater good of the whole.   So what is one less home, one less time share in Florida.   

Or perhaps you favor a regressive tax, where the burden is tossed solely upon the bottom 50%.  And as were at it, we should do away with unions.  And we shall also do away with unemployment benefits.   Really no need for those.   Oh heck, just do away with all restrictions. And of course any student loans for those that come from a bottom 50%, put on hold.  We'll save money there.  Really they don't deserve it.  After all they rarely pay it back.   

But we could go to a flat tax across the board.   Yet again the bottom 50% gets screwed.  For if it is raised say such as the cap level of Hong Kong at 16%.  While the loss of revue from the top.  That just fuel the deficit. 

The one I like is consumption tax.  Do away with the income tax.  That would be the fairest. 

Both McCain and Obama are lying about taxes, only they don't realize it yet. Neither would realize it until after the election, when they want to get certain spending programs funded.

McCain is lying when he says he won't raise taxes. He should learn from George Bush I or Tim Kaine here in Virginia. You simply don't state that because either Congress will vote to raise taxes in their legislation they pass, or you will want taxes raised to fund certain things.

Obama thinks he'll only raise taxes on the upper earners, but that's a lie also. He wants certain programs funded, as does members of Congress such as Kerry (who wants a New Deal II type thing) and Barney Frank, for instance. So, to cover everything that Obama may want, he'll have to raise taxes across the board, because there won't be any spending cuts, especially not after the Bailout that we just passed for 700 Billion. We can't cut military spending while our troops are still overseas because that cuts funding for their benefits, their pay and the supplies and equipment they need.

So, in a nutshell, both candidates are lying about taxes even though they are making what they think are legitimate statements because they have no idea what next year will bring, and they have no idea what Congress will try to pass once they have a Democratic Supermajority.

Raising taxes on Capital Gains and Small and Medium Businesses actually will hurt, and will result in lower revenues, because there will be less incentive to invest money and to improve the staffing, et al at said businesses. This I know first hand because the owner of my small business I work for, who will feel the increase in taxes and capital gains, has already said he'll adjust accordingly.

Unions are fine, as long as you don't give them carte blanche to intimidate people into having to join them by taking away the secret ballot. Unions have served a good purpose but not everyone actually wants to be in one, and should have the right to decide not to be without intimidation.

Student loans are fine too as long as the people who borrow 160,000$ to get a master's degree in music don't default on them because they can't find a job after all of that in the field earning enough to pay it back. Things like this are done best in moderation and with some foresight.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2008, 02:34:20 PM »
It matters to me.  I can't state an outright lie without facing slander charges.  Why are they exempt?  And while I think it's wrong to 'spin' things, outright lying is disgraceful.
Lying is disgraceful. You're condoning lying? what's Obama lying about that isn't obvious is what matters. At least an obvious lie is easy to spot, but it's not the most dangerous.

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Re: McCain says Obama will 'say anything' to win
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2008, 04:23:03 PM »
Lying is disgraceful. You're condoning lying? what's Obama lying about that isn't obvious is what matters. At least an obvious lie is easy to spot, but it's not the most dangerous.

Hold on, you're saying that I condone lying?  Trust me, anyone who's read my posts about honesty will set you straight on that.  I do NOT condone lying of any ilk.

Wow, that's a backward bit of logic.  You're saying McCain is better because he's lying outright?!  *shaking my head in bewilderment*