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Author Topic: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016  (Read 1821 times)

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Offline LostInTheMistTopic starter

So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« on: April 27, 2015, 01:43:55 AM »
I'm going to work my tail off to get Hillary Clinton elected. I'll do phone banks, I'll go door to door, I'll organize in my community. I'd accept a paid position on her campaign.

But I'm going to vote for Bernie Sanders.

I can't deny it. I've denied it for eight years, but I'm going to be 100% honest right now: I'm a socialist.

I'm way to the left of the Democratic Party. I have little respect for the Democrats in the Senate. The only Democrat I really respect is my House Representative, because he is so left wing that he's essentially a socialist too. (But he's fucking awesome.) I don't support Obamacare because I feel it doesn't go far enough. (I would vote in favor of it though, because it's literally better than nothing. It's the only reason I have something resembling health insurance; until my job's health insurance kicks in) I do support the nationalization of all major industries including steel, trucking, health care, mining, farming, etc.  I do not support a brutal dictatorship overseen by a single party leader, nor do I support a single-party system. I am not a communist, nor a stalinist. Nor am I a trotskyist. I'm not a communist. Communism doesn't work. But I do support more money to help poor people and old people. I am in favor of having enough money to live above the poverty line when I am too old to work. I'm in favor of treatment instead of imprisonment for those who commit drug crimes. I'm in favor of doctor-assisted suicide.

Pretty much, my position can be summed up.
Government Involvement in Business: Maximum
Government Involvement in Personal Lives: None

So that's why I'm going to vote socialist in the upcoming election.

Unless it looks like the vote in my state is going to be close. Because there is no chance of victory for a third party in the United States.

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2015, 11:43:29 AM »
my suggestion is vote for Bernie Sanders of Vermont he's closer to your viewpoint, that is if/when he throws his hat in the ring, but if he looses the primary vote for Hillary.

So far the republican race is shaping up to bring a fight within their party between tea party radicals whose agenda is "Let's play "it's 1950" again and fall behind" and the mainstream pro-business wing of the party.

Offline Oniya

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2015, 11:52:38 AM »
Man, if Bernie runs, he's got my vote.  If he doesn't run, I'd consider moving to Vermont just so I could at least vote for him there.

Offline Dimir

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2015, 12:04:59 PM »
Considering yourself to be a socialist is in no way an extremist point of view as you've specified that you aren't a Stanlist.
Parts of Western Europe could be considered to be modern, socialist areas that don't have tyrannical rulers (Ex. Scandinavia, although that could be debatable). All socialism is are left-wing political policies without much if any centrism.

Offline Oniya

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2015, 12:13:13 PM »
Technically, Bernie identifies as 'Independent' anyways, so if you personally feel that there's a stigma about being 'socialist', just say you're voting Independent.


Although I would feel weird thinking of him as 'President Sanders'.  It'd be like taking a job with your favorite uncle and having to call him 'Mr. Stevens' instead of 'Uncle Frank'.

Offline Hemingway

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2015, 01:01:28 PM »
As a Scandinavian, I find the idea of stigma attached to the word socialist amusing. I mean, people use 'socialist' as an insult here as well, oblivious to the fact that they live in social democracies and benefit greatly from socialist policies mixed with more or less regulated capitalism ( depends on which country in particular you're looking at ). In reality, we're all socialists over here. Which is also already true of the US, though perhaps not to the same degree.

Socialism is just one of those words that are notoriously difficult to pin down, and used by a lot of different people to mean a lot of different things. Without any sort of qualification, the label itself is fairly hollow; you could be anything from a revolutionary socialist or anarchist, to a social democrat. It'll give people an idea you don't think people should have to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, but that's about it.

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2015, 01:04:59 PM »
No one in a society can be anti-socialist. The sticking point is always how much socialism do we want.

Me, I'm writing in Cthulhu. I think Hillary's going to get it by virtue of being the only Democrat of any clout, but I wonder if the Republicans will be able to even front someone strong enough.

Offline Mikem

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2015, 01:06:50 PM »
The others are right. Too much "stupid" Americans (and maybe others) have tied Socialism as being as evil as bad, bad Communism. And that's bad. lol

I've seriously considered the actual traits of Socialism, and it's not bad at all. Scandinavia's got Socialist policies all up in their business and their their leading nations in terms of quality of life n'such. I wouldn't mind seeing how it's like to live in Norway. I am half Norsky anyway.

Though I don't understand why you're going to vote for one guy but then actively support and even campaign for Hilary? Do you already believe your candidate won't win that much? Well, that was kind of a dumb question. Everyone knows as long as MURICA remains the same, Democrats and Republicans will always get all the votes. If Johnson runs again I'll vote for him again, but I'm a minority in thinking a third party deserves the limelight now. We all know in the back of our minds that it'll either be whatever Republican chooses to run, or Clinton. Cause 'Murica.

Offline Warlock

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2015, 01:14:26 PM »
A socialist...in 'murica? Let me introduce you to my gauge, all 12 of them.

Honestly, I'd love to see Sanders win or Elizabeth Warren (Though she's not running. :( ). And despite living in Sweden I'll find a way to vote, if the dead can do it then so can I!

Since ''Socialism'' is tainted, could one use ''Social Democracy'' to describe their political affilliation with out suffering the stigma attached in America? While not all-encompasing it describes a fairly large amount of western socialists' views on goverment, Bernie for example identify himself as that. Progressives also seem to suggest fairly socialist-inspired policies (not always, but enough to notice), any thoughts on that?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 01:20:54 PM by Warlock »

Offline Mithlomwen

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2015, 02:17:11 PM »
Man, if Bernie runs, he's got my vote. 

Mine as well. 

Offline LostInTheMistTopic starter

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2015, 06:44:33 PM »
Though I don't understand why you're going to vote for one guy but then actively support and even campaign for Hilary? Do you already believe your candidate won't win that much? Well, that was kind of a dumb question. Everyone knows as long as MURICA remains the same, Democrats and Republicans will always get all the votes. If Johnson runs again I'll vote for him again, but I'm a minority in thinking a third party deserves the limelight now. We all know in the back of our minds that it'll either be whatever Republican chooses to run, or Clinton. Cause 'Murica.

That's pretty much the sum of it. I like Bernie Sanders, and I like his politics. But if I have to choose between Clinton (going out on a limb and saying she'll win the nomination unless E. Warren runs, which she has said she won't) and a Republican, I'm going to go with Clinton. My vote is pretty much a symbolic gesture. If he had a snowball's chance in hell of winning, I'd campaign for him, but he doesn't.  Our current two-party system kinda sucks. It would be nice if we had three (or more) relatively even parties and two of them had to work together. Unfortunately, the American voting system and Senate/House have led to an intractable two party system. (Republicans are calling themselves Republicans but the Republican of the 1980s is far more moderate than modern Republicans; the party has changed.) In the past, major parties have risen up, but always replacing another major party.

As I recall, the last time we had three honest to god (powerful) parties was over a hundred years ago, and that was for a single election.

I could go on as to why this is for 50 pages, but I think I'll spare you my thesis. In its most simplified snapple-bottle cap form: It's because you vote for a person, not a party in this country. Like I said, I could go on for pages explaining it.

Offline Oniya

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2015, 08:06:02 PM »
Thing is, Bernie Sanders has had people 'campaigning' for him for the last couple of years.  His quotes have gone viral on Facebook, to the point where people who barely know the names of their own state's Congresspeople know who Bernie Sanders is.

Offline LostInTheMistTopic starter

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2015, 08:21:59 PM »
People campaigning for him for President doesn't make him any more likely to win. A good chunk of people who vote don't even look at the names on the ballot, they don't listen to the debates, they go in uneducated about anything, and just vote either for their party registration, they flip a coin, or they don't vote at all. (Then they bitch and moan about the state of politics in the country, and how can we elect these people, etc. And that annoys me.) I'll probably never vote for a Republican, but I still watch the debates and read up on the election and such... and if there's a Republican out there who can earn my vote, then I'll vote for him. I don't see it happening, but hey....

Offline Zakharra

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2015, 09:30:05 PM »
I'm going to work my tail off to get Hillary Clinton elected. I'll do phone banks, I'll go door to door, I'll organize in my community. I'd accept a paid position on her campaign.

But I'm going to vote for Bernie Sanders.

I can't deny it. I've denied it for eight years, but I'm going to be 100% honest right now: I'm a socialist.

I'm way to the left of the Democratic Party. I have little respect for the Democrats in the Senate. The only Democrat I really respect is my House Representative, because he is so left wing that he's essentially a socialist too. (But he's fucking awesome.) I don't support Obamacare because I feel it doesn't go far enough. (I would vote in favor of it though, because it's literally better than nothing. It's the only reason I have something resembling health insurance; until my job's health insurance kicks in) I do support the nationalization of all major industries including steel, trucking, health care, mining, farming, etc.  I do not support a brutal dictatorship overseen by a single party leader, nor do I support a single-party system. I am not a communist, nor a stalinist. Nor am I a trotskyist. I'm not a communist. Communism doesn't work. But I do support more money to help poor people and old people. I am in favor of having enough money to live above the poverty line when I am too old to work. I'm in favor of treatment instead of imprisonment for those who commit drug crimes. I'm in favor of doctor-assisted suicide.

Pretty much, my position can be summed up.
Government Involvement in Business: Maximum
Government Involvement in Personal Lives: None

So that's why I'm going to vote socialist in the upcoming election.

Unless it looks like the vote in my state is going to be close. Because there is no chance of victory for a third party in the United States.

 I cannot support the underlined parts. Government control of -every- major industry as you mention, is not a good thing.  And I firmly believe that if you have a government more or less controlling every aspect of industry, you cannot have it not be in the private lives of the citizens either. You cannot have one and not the other.

 I more or less agree with most of what else you say (except the healthcare. Obamacare is an abomination) to one degree or another, but there are limits.

 That said, you should vote as you wish. more power to you. :)

A socialist...in 'murica? Let me introduce you to my gauge, all 12 of them.

Honestly, I'd love to see Sanders win or Elizabeth Warren (Though she's not running. :( ). And despite living in Sweden I'll find a way to vote, if the dead can do it then so can I!

 Only if you're an American citizen. If you're not, don't try to vote in the US elections. That is not legal and sets a very bad example (I am sure Sweden would hate to have 100 million Republicans voting in their elections, eh? After all  turn about is fair play and all. You vote in our elections when you're not even a citizen, expect the same in return.)

Offline Mikem

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2015, 03:04:40 PM »
Quote
I more or less agree with most of what else you say (except the healthcare. Obamacare is an abomination) to one degree or another

How so, exactly. My mother has health insurance now because of the Affordable Care Act.

Offline LostInTheMistTopic starter

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2015, 03:10:38 PM »
How so, exactly. My mother has health insurance now because of the Affordable Care Act.

I too have health insurance because the Affordable Care Act. Also those who had insurance before the Affordable Care Act have seen their premiums go down. Or at least stop going up so much.

But the chorus from the right has been that the Affordable Care Act is terrible, so a lot of people believe it, even though all the reasons they've been given are lies and all the "facts" they've been told are falsehoods.

Offline Oniya

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2015, 03:32:28 PM »
As another person who only has healthcare because of the ACA, I do have to point out that the ACA as originally conceived got hamstrung by Congress - mostly by those who were ranting about how 'socialist' it was.  The original would have been much better, but I'm taking what I can get.

Offline LostInTheMistTopic starter

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2015, 06:27:06 PM »
As another person who only has healthcare because of the ACA, I do have to point out that the ACA as originally conceived got hamstrung by Congress - mostly by those who were ranting about how 'socialist' it was.  The original would have been much better, but I'm taking what I can get.

We actually probably could have gotten more, but that was early on in the President's first term when attempts were still being made to work with Republicans instead of most of what the President has accomplished since, which is despite Republicans.

Offline Oniya

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2015, 06:47:47 PM »
Agreed.  But basically, in its current form, ACA is only a step forward.  I think calling it an 'abomination' is a bit harsh, but it's not quite what was put on the tin.

Soon, hopefully.

Offline Zakharra

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2015, 09:11:39 PM »
How so, exactly. My mother has health insurance now because of the Affordable Care Act.

 I call it an abomination because it is now a requirement to be a citizen of the Us that you -have- to have a government approved health plan. Even if you can pay for all expenses out of you pocket, you have to have a plan the government approves of. I've also heard  of a lot of peoples plans going up in price. For some, by quite a bit. But it is mostly the fact it's now mandated a US citizen has to have one that irks me.

 Another thing that irks me is that since the plan has been enacted, it has been changed somewhat by executive orders, among the changes, an enormous number of exemptions for companies (and as far as I understand it, all unions are/were automatically exempt). Not by the Congress, where it should be changed, if I recall things correctly. The Executive order is not intended to be able to alter already existing laws or bypass Congress. If the plan is supposed to be for everyone then make it FOR everyone. No exemptions. There's likely a few other things about it I don't like but I cannot remember them off the top of my head atm.


As another person who only has healthcare because of the ACA, I do have to point out that the ACA as originally conceived got hamstrung by Congress - mostly by those who were ranting about how 'socialist' it was.  The original would have been much better, but I'm taking what I can get.

 I must point out that the ACA passed Congress without Republican votes. Both in the House and Senate, Republicans either voted against it or abstained (one abstained in the Senate. In the House every Republican voted against it). So the success or failure of the ACA is entirely on the Democrat party's head.

Offline Mithlomwen

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2015, 09:25:00 PM »
Apparently he is going to announce a Presidential run on Thursday. 

http://digital.vpr.net/post/bernie-sanders-announce-presidential-run

Offline Yugishogun

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2015, 09:46:20 PM »
Apparently he is going to announce a Presidential run on Thursday. 

http://digital.vpr.net/post/bernie-sanders-announce-presidential-run

The comments section makes me feel like I'm on youtube though.

Offline elone

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2015, 10:12:35 AM »
Bernie or Warren, either one would be better than Hillary. I am far left politically, more socialist than Democrat. I think it will be difficult to unseat the chosen one (Hillary) but someone needs to do it. If ever there was a person who is a pure politician with all the negatives that come with that label it is Hillary. Just my opinion, but she seems to go with whatever is popular at the moment. Just saw her on the news, jumping on the bandwagon about issues brought on by the riots/protests in Baltimore. I bet she did a poll before she spoke. Hillary just comes with too much baggage for me. Where are the young up and coming Democrats, surely in a country of over 300 million people there is a qualified candidate for president other that the reruns we are getting.

I could not vote Republican and don't want to vote for Hillary. I know a lot of Democrats that feel the same way. This country needs election laws that make it easier for a third party candidate to get some attention.

Offline Oniya

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Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2015, 10:46:53 AM »
I could not vote Republican and don't want to vote for Hillary. I know a lot of Democrats that feel the same way. This country needs election laws that make it easier for a third party candidate to get some attention.

Thing is, considering the impact social media has on things, Bernie's getting attention.  Anyone who has been griping about the state of the middle class, the impact of 'corporate politics', the ridiculous DADT attitude that has been slapped on climate change, or a score of other issues has probably seen a dozen or more of Bernie's quotes over any given week.  Grass roots at its finest.

What needs to be done is to convince people that they need to get out there and vote when the time comes.  Primaries if possible.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: So... I Have Decided On My Vote For President In 2016
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2015, 12:17:09 PM »
As a mostly centrist Rhino, since Jeb Bush hasn't declared officially I see no one I trust to park my car much less be anything but a hard right schill in my party. We fell into the same trap that the Demsnused to where is you didn't meet my segments litmus issue you were wrong for the party

I'm hoping that the Gay marriage issue before the Supreme Court will gut the raging radicals on the right as an issue of contention. Without it as a lightning rod for policy maybe we can get some more moderate types to crawl out from under a rock