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Author Topic: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD  (Read 1503 times)

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Offline Scribbles

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2015, 07:38:22 AM »
Sorry Dashenka, I thought you were dismissing everything which was said in that last sentence, my bad!

Offline Mistyy

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2015, 08:44:40 PM »
If you look at the cities in US with most rapes and generally at the countries in the world with most rapes per capita, you will find some common denominators. I think it is more prevalent in certain cultures, for example Sweden has a lot of rapes per capita despite being generally held as one of world's best countries, and this largely due to massive immigration there. The government there has chosen that path and will face the consequences. Combine this with the welfare state model and a juridical system with weak punishments and you are pretty much set for a catastrophe.

It may not be politically correct to say but for example in South Africa when it was still under the white minority rule, crime stats including rape were extremely low for a country in Africa, but after the new government came into power, a big part of the security apparatus was dismantled and death penalty was removed. Needless to say, the crime stats went through the roof and it's considered extremely unsafe country where rape is very common. I just checked and even the Finnish foreign ministry warns about travelling there. I am not expert in this but I believe that without a strong security force you can't expect to have a relatively crime free society, especially in countries with various ethnic groups with their own cultures. One could argue for reinstatement of death penalty in SA, people have even asked for because of the increasing crime and worsening conditions.  Ever wonder why the Asian countries are the safest in the world, even China is considered very safe and you can basically walk everywhere at night unlike in many US cities and increasingly in European cities.

Offline consortium11

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2015, 04:27:53 AM »
...for example Sweden has a lot of rapes per capita despite being generally held as one of world's best countries

Sweden's stats are somewhat deceptive due to the way they record them. In Sweden the data is recorded when a crime is first reported as opposed to later in the investigation. Thus while in another country if someone reports a rape to the police but over the course of the investigation it becomes apparent that the facts indicate it was a different form of sexual assault it will generally not be recorded as a rape there while in Sweden it would. Sweden also records each accusation of rape as a sexual offence; if someone reports that their partner has repeatedly raped them over a considerable period of time then in other countries that may well be recorded as a single offence of rape while in contrast Sweden would report each and every one as a separate offense which obviously makes the figures look larger. Beyond that there's also a time lag factor to how Sweden records crimes; if someone reports a historic rape then it is included in the stats for the year it is reported, not for the year it happened.

One also has to take into account how the law defines rape. Sweden's definition is a fairly wide one which includes a number of acts that would be seen as sexual assault but not rape in the UK for example; due to that someone who commits the exact same act in Sweden and the UK could commit rape in Sweden but not in the UK. In practical terms that makes little difference (the legal penalties for a sexual assault can be just as high as a rape in the UK) but it does mean that the reporting figures are distorted between the two when it comes to rape.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2015, 05:23:16 AM »
I would also be careful in comparing the stats of a country like Sweden with a heavy bureaucracy and management system to a more generic thing such as "Africa."  While certain countries in Africa are advanced, there is a great deal of cultural discrepancy on what defines rape along with different procedures for handling, prosecuting and reporting rape.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2015, 06:24:56 AM »
If you look at the cities in US with most rapes and generally at the countries in the world with most rapes per capita, you will find some common denominators. I think it is more prevalent in certain cultures, for example Sweden has a lot of rapes per capita despite being generally held as one of world's best countries, and this largely due to massive immigration there. The government there has chosen that path and will face the consequences. Combine this with the welfare state model and a juridical system with weak punishments and you are pretty much set for a catastrophe.

I'd say that's a too simplistic view. The relatively high number of charges made to the police for rape around here, and the lower but fairly high frequency of those charges going to court are much more reflective of what kind of actions are included under rape, in the code of law and in general talk. The "matching"  of the R-word to actions and behaviour stretches wider in Sweden than in India or even in many European countries, even in the UK as Consortium was on to. You're broadly right that gang rapes around here are often committed by gangs of young immigrants and immigrants' children, "ghetto kids", not by native Swedes  - but gang rapes are not really the major part of the figure of rape they appear to be in the news, not in any country I think.

It's also about how far most ordinary women feel it's within their reach to actually make a charge for rape and expect to get a serious hearing, to actually get it into court. In a country like India or Brazil, or even Russia I figure, many women would certainly feel that unless their charges are clearly backed by their husband or male relatives (brothers, uncles, parents), and supported with morals and money from that direction, there's no point in filing any rape or sexual assault charges with the police, all they would get for it is trouble and more or less outspoken shaming for "having dressed like a slut", "having pulled it upon themselves" or causing havoc for an honest man and his family.

In many countries rape at home, or within the marriage or steady relationship, doesn't count as rape according to law, and that was standard practice in most western countries too, including the US and the UK, until a few decades ago. Any scientific data will tell us that home is one of the places where rape (or wifebeating) happens most frequently, so if the woman (or LGBT partner) is effectively expected to give in and provide sexual gratification any time the other party desires it, it's going to have a huge effect on the total number of rape charges, and a substantial imnpact on the number of rape convictions.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 07:13:55 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Ephiral

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Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2015, 08:42:51 AM »
If you look at the cities in US with most rapes and generally at the countries in the world with most rapes per capita, you will find some common denominators. I think it is more prevalent in certain cultures, for example Sweden has a lot of rapes per capita despite being generally held as one of world's best countries, and this largely due to massive immigration there.
Citation sorely needed on the bolded bit.

Offline Mistyy

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2015, 09:43:00 AM »
Well you can google the statistics if you want, but just look at Denmark where the rapes per 100 000 is around 7.0 and in Sweden it is around 50 per 100 000. The legislation in these countries is extremely similar and they also share the same cultural values. Population of Denmark is about half of Sweden and even when you adjust the amount to population, the difference remains huge. Basically the only factor that separates these countries is the massive immigration in Sweden, you don't need to be any kind of genius to notice this. It's not like the native Swedes suddenly started raping people like crazy. Feels like they are conducting some kind of mad scientific experiment in there. Even the US has it's fair share of racial and cultural problems and it's considered one of world's most diverse countries. My belief is that there exists very fundamental differences between people from different parts of the world. Once you recognize this everything will really open up. It's just mad to say that a man from Guangzhou or Lesotho is the same as the man from Stockholm. The immigration works generally very well in US because most people come to work there and social security system is very weak, you can't say the same about welfare states in Europe.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 09:44:06 AM by Mistyy »

Offline Sho

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2015, 12:17:58 PM »
It's just mad to say that a man from Guangzhou or Lesotho is the same as the man from Stockholm.

It's also mad to say that a man from Guangzhou or Lesotho is somehow less civilized or is a rapist by nature of where he was raised. I'd like to point out that correlation does not mean causation. If you're going to make claims about rape being committed solely by immigrants in the vast majority of Swedish cases (which is what you're implying), then you need to back it up by data rather than claims of "well you can Google the statistics if you want".

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2015, 02:43:41 PM »
You are extrapolating a lot of information from one unsourced statistic.  Sounds a bit like you are attempting to force the numbers and information to back a pre-established position.

Offline Mistyy

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2015, 04:24:13 PM »
It's also mad to say that a man from Guangzhou or Lesotho is somehow less civilized or is a rapist by nature of where he was raised. I'd like to point out that correlation does not mean causation. If you're going to make claims about rape being committed solely by immigrants in the vast majority of Swedish cases (which is what you're implying), then you need to back it up by data rather than claims of "well you can Google the statistics if you want".

Well I found this document that is produced by the Swedish government, and it's written in Swedish but basically at the page 43 there is a table that divides it to three categories: "born in Sweden, both parents born in Sweden", "born in Sweden, at least one parent born outside Sweden" and "born outside Sweden" Relative risk of being accused of rape or attempt of rape for these groups is 1.0, 1.8, and 5.0

Also a fun fact is that Asians are vastly underrepresented in crime statistics, at least in the US. You can see this from the FBI crime statistics that actually take in account the race of the man/woman who committed the crime. Just look at the national crime statistics in Japan, China, Taiwan and other Asian countries. The crime rates are very low, even lower than in European countries. If you look at the SAT scores of Asians in US, they outperform Whites, Hispanics and Blacks easily, if I remember correctly, Caltech doesn't use racial quotas in admissions and like > 60% of the students are Asians despite them being a very small part of the population. I believe this comes from high IQ(good genes) + a very strong culture that emphasizes hard work. This statistic lists IQ by country. Surprisingly the top countries also have low crime rate and have risen up fast despite being exploited by the western powers in history.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2015, 06:08:37 PM »
Essentially what is being pointed out by the table mentioned, though not presented, is that the immigrant population of Sweden is more at risk for being accused of rape or of being raped.  Keep in mind that an immigrant population already faces several barriers in appealing to local assistance and law enforcement.  So there really is no surprise that immigrants would fall prey to being accused of rape.  The United States has had similar incidents with ethnic minorities being overly accused of rape and in truth has a long standing history of turning minority groups into sexual predators.  Incidentally Denmark was ranked the worst place by a survey conducted of women by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights for being raped (52%).  Finland came in second with Sweden being third at 46%.

Also the Asian population, which is such a broad term, is indeed under-represented.  This may also be due to Asian Americans being about 4.8% of the population.  As for the IQ score, this is seriously not related to genetics but a socio-economic statistics that is largely considered without foundation.  There is simply no evidence that IQ scores actually gauge intelligence or really even what intelligence means. 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 06:25:48 PM by Pumpkin Seeds »

Offline Mistyy

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2015, 06:32:54 PM »
There is a very strong evidence that IQ scores are tied to genetics, at least to some extent. This was even clearly mentioned in high school biology text books here in Finland. I mean come on now, I even pointed statistics that clearly tell this. I am not implying that White or Black people can't be as successful as Asians because IQ doesn't straight up correlate to success, but it also plays some part in it. Realizing this fact will really open up many things, it's just like when you understand that planets orbit the sun instead of earth, you no longer need complex mathematical models for the movements of the different planets, but you can instead rely on the one model. Certain groups tend to try to play down these findings in order to serve their own goals. If you pick an Asian kid from China at birth and a Hispanic kid from US at birth, and then have them grow in the same environment with basically all factors same, it is highly likely that the Asian kid will test higher than the Hispanic kid. Of course race is generally a very hard to determine in some cases, but for example the black people in the US are genetically very close to each other, despite Africa being genetically very diverse. This is because they are the descendants of the former slaves that were brought from a small part of Africa, not from the whole continent. I accept people having different views about the IQ issue than I and I respect them because this one of things in science that has been debated since the creation of IQ tests, and there is no end in the horizon.

Yes the Asian population is vastly under represented when adjusted to their size, it would be stupid to compare them without adjusting the values to the size of the population. Also China got totally destroyed and received no assistance from US like Japan did. Yet, when you walk the Bund in Shanghai, you will notice that the economic miracle is very true. They raised the country from the ground and built a modern industrial state. I think their success has a lot to do with IQ when planning the state policies. My respect towards them is huge.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 06:39:54 PM by Mistyy »

Offline Oniya

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Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2015, 06:37:38 PM »
I would like to see some peer-reviewed studies on the IQ thing. 

Offline Ephiral

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Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2015, 06:44:26 PM »
Well you can google the statistics if you want, but just look at Denmark where the rapes per 100 000 is around 7.0 and in Sweden it is around 50 per 100 000. The legislation in these countries is extremely similar and they also share the same cultural values. Population of Denmark is about half of Sweden and even when you adjust the amount to population, the difference remains huge. Basically the only factor that separates these countries is the massive immigration in Sweden, you don't need to be any kind of genius to notice this. It's not like the native Swedes suddenly started raping people like crazy. Feels like they are conducting some kind of mad scientific experiment in there. Even the US has it's fair share of racial and cultural problems and it's considered one of world's most diverse countries. My belief is that there exists very fundamental differences between people from different parts of the world. Once you recognize this everything will really open up. It's just mad to say that a man from Guangzhou or Lesotho is the same as the man from Stockholm. The immigration works generally very well in US because most people come to work there and social security system is very weak, you can't say the same about welfare states in Europe.
In no way have you provided any causal link. Correlation is not causation. Try again, please. Preferably without the random tangent into explicit racism?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 12:33:52 AM by Ephiral »

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2015, 06:44:33 PM »
Regarding this angle on intelligence, are we saying that lower intelligence makes a person more likely to rape or that higher intelligence makes it easier for the rapist to get away with their crime? Are we saying that you can correct a rapist by educating them?



« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 06:46:58 PM by TaintedAndDelish »

Offline Mistyy

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2015, 06:57:21 PM »
Regarding this angle on intelligence, are we saying that lower intelligence makes a person more likely to rape or that higher intelligence makes it easier for the rapist to get away with their crime? Are we saying that you can correct a rapist by educating them?

I would say that person with lower IQ is more likely to commit crimes, and it's pretty much a no-brainer that education plays a large role whether a person will commit criminal acts like rape. Actually when South African students learned about matrices and to use them in math, their IQ scores increased. The key when doing the IQ tests is to have populations that are similar to each other to eliminate the outside factors, this is the same when doing any kind of scientific studies. All the credible IQ studies are done this way. Here is a very good study about the relation between IQ and race: http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf If you are really interested in the issue, you should read it. I also remember that the opponents of the IQ test once said that Whites do better than Blacks is because the test is made by Whites, but when Asians beat Whites easily that argument kind of died.

Offline Oniya

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Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2015, 07:25:19 PM »
I would say that person with lower IQ is more likely to commit crimes, and it's pretty much a no-brainer that education plays a large role whether a person will commit criminal acts like rape.

Really?
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=183065 

Offline Mistyy

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2015, 07:53:03 PM »
Really?
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=183065

I would love to read that through but apparently you need to pay to get the pdf, so I can't really comment much on the abstract. It might be true that IQ doesn't have much impact on crime, but it's generally a very hard thing to research. The social and cultural factors are undeniably the largest factor in crime, I can't deny that and it makes sense. Why would a person with low IQ but high wealth see need to do any crimes when money basically gets him/her everything? The debate of race and IQ dates to times far before I was even born and the debate is still going on, I doubt it's going to have conclusion even before I die because of the political division that exists and has existed in the world. A bad immigration policy will lead to conflict, UK is going to poll exit from EU mainly because of the issues of free movement. In the first and foremost every country has the full sovereign right to determine their stance on immigration, it's not my position nor anyone else's but Japanese citizens to criticize Japan for having a very harsh immigration policy and maintaining a culture that heavily links ethnicity to "being Japanese" and generally accept people in that are more likely to assimilate to Japanese culture.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 08:50:42 PM by Mistyy »

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2015, 08:25:27 PM »
An IQ test measures how well your aquired knowledge correlates with a pre-defined set of expectations. (this is an over-simplification for the sake of making a point) Students who are taught material that correlates strongly with the questions on the IQ test will test higher than those who are not. A student who knows how to use a simple Venn diagram will be able to quickly answer some of the qustions using that tool. A student who has not had exposure to this simple tool will score lower unless they have aquired a similar method. You can say the same about the level of familiarity that subjects have with test taking and with the language and examples used in the test itself. A person could have a very efficient brain, but lack the benefits of having been taught to solve problems that are similar to those on the test.

With regard to crime and intelligence, I think you are suggesting that people commit crimes out of need? Ie. If a have wealth, then what need do I have to steal? If I can talk a women into going to bed with me, then I don't need to resort to rape. That would thus mean that the wealthiest people are most likely the most honest people.  One needs to look no father than Wall Street to see the flaw in this presumption.

I think the truth is, people commit crimes for many different reasons, but that's a subject that I really do not know much about.


 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 08:28:28 PM by TaintedAndDelish »

Offline Oniya

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Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2015, 08:39:46 PM »
What about the fact that sociopaths as a group are often described as having 'high intelligence', which they use to manipulate people?

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/15850/1/Characteristics-of-a-Sociopath.html

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2015, 08:43:18 PM »
Like I said, you need to look no father than Wall Street.  lol

Offline Mistyy

Re: TROUBLE OF RAPE IN THE WORLD
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2015, 09:21:25 PM »
Indeed, crimes are committed for various reasons. It's not a simple matter. I'd like to also add that I believe that race shouldn't be basis for anything like college admissions or getting into certain jobs. Some colleges, even the world's top universities in the US practice policies that make it easier for students of certain races to get admission. I believe it was determined that it's hardest for Asian women to get into the Ivy League schools. Merit should be the only truth in such cases and the admission should be held on the basis that the race isn't even disclosed. So what if 60% of the students in those top schools are Asian, according to all principles of morality the place belongs to them as they have worked to earn it and fairly competed for it, no one has the right to deny them this. Top spots belong to those most capable, the ones with the highest merit. It's not like there are no places in universities in the US. In fact some states have even banned the use of race as a matter to consider in admission. If I fail at a test or don't get a place in college, I won't go blaming the college for it. Some people seem to have tendency to look for fault everywhere else but themselves, it's always someone else's fault. Maybe that comes from poor parenting or something.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 09:22:54 PM by Mistyy »