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Author Topic: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.  (Read 2500 times)

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Offline Muse

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2015, 12:47:44 PM »
  Silverstar of Selune here, so yes, we have a priestess.  :) 

Offline Miroque

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2015, 01:10:52 PM »
Selune specialty priests (2 types actually)

- Selune Moon-Knight
- Selune Silver Lady

(as in ADD #9509 - Forgotten Realms Warriors and Priests of the Realms book) Both kinda nice kits, SMK being more combat, and SSL being more healery.

I actually though of going toward Priestess of Elistaeree (F/C/M drow) but that would have been shooting oneself on foot and neck... *6 the XP cost (3* from multiclassing and *2 from being drow)

Offline deadmanshand

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2015, 01:39:41 PM »
As mentioned before, any of the 2nd edition source guides, like the "complete" guides, the racial guides and so on are on the table. As long as you don't go way, way, way out there, I'll consider it.

And the fact that I missed that is why I didn't make a character during my little sleep deprived perusal of group games last night.

The party looks like it's going to be fairly heavy on magic-users of various types. I'm not saying that a necromancer wouldn't be an option, but unlike 3.X, a party of spell slingers will have distinct disadvantages.

Gotcha. I'll look into some non-spellslinging ideas. No problems there.

Offline BlinkinTopic starter

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2015, 06:24:23 PM »
Muse, I think that there's a medication for that sweating problem now. ;)

I asked the question for a reason. I wanted to know what would prompt the characters to take a life. Not contemplate it, not consider it, but do it. In today's world, we are intellectually numb to violence; we see it everywhere at a distance for the most part. This isn't to say that none of us have been touched by it, but by and large, few of us have to deal with real, physical violence in our lives. We hear about it, we read about it, we see it on TV, but that's not actually facing the potential of having to deal with a kill or be killed situation.

We all have a trigger, a point that each of us are capable of taking a life. Many might say "I would never..." but when it comes down to facing the fact, 99 out of 100 of us will kill. It will be a tramatic, horrific event; even more so if you have to do it at a range of a couple of feet and see the blood on your own hands. I wanted to know what level the player would place on that hurdle. What would make a 19 year old college student say, "I'm going to do it."

What I don't want is to see that 19 year old blow it off the first time they run someone through or blow them up.



Ok, I admit that I forgot about the EXP issue with both the drow and some o the kits. It isn't something that you see anymore and level adjustments rarely come into play as far as I've seen. It's a fair argument and I'll allow the drow blade singer... if we get that far. We do, in theory, have a cleric and with some hope, a thie.

Offline Tonberryshuffle

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2015, 09:07:16 PM »
My post was eaten up several times when trying to respond via phone earlier in the day.  Bummer.

Anyway, when I mentioned the Bard I hadn't realized that everyone was already playing a spellcaster.  I was leaning that way because of their versatility; even some kits allowing them to be great even without magic.  I could consider a rogue though.  The rogues bigger badder eastern cousin would (probably) be a better choice even if the fluff really fucks with players a lot of times. 

Offline deadmanshand

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2015, 09:43:53 PM »
Name: Michael Morgan
Age: 18 (freshman)
Sex: male
Sexual Orientation:  Bisexual but very shy about his attraction to men
Major/Minor: Clinical Psychology/Neuroscience
Personality:

Shy but can get very talkative once he relaxes. Unfortunately in equal parts used to and sensitive to attention due to his cane, odd walk, sexuality, and choice of hobbies in life. Tries to be very empathetic and avoid judging people off hand but has a few sensitive topics that will nuke that.  Has a hard time standing up for himself but doesn't have a problem standing up for someone else. Uses roleplaying to be what he can't be in real life most days. Likes to play athletic, adventurous men. Also likes athletic, adventurous men and women. Exceptionally curious by nature.

Hobbies, interest and/or “things they like to do”:

- Avid fan of MMA and follows it the way some do football
- Reads constantly but almost always fantasy or horror
- People watching is one of his favorite activities. Makes little story type entries in his People Journal about what he observes.
- Huge anime geek
- Loves to cook. Constantly experimenting with new recipes.

Fears, phobias and/or “Things that they don’t like”:

- Can't stand prejudice. Especially related to sexuality.
- Terrified of his family and friend's reaction if they knew of his attraction to men.
- Clowns are a no go. At all.
- Does not get along with horses. They hate him and he hates them in return.
- Gets extremely nervous around slippery terrain thanks to his walking issues.

Brief Background:

Michael is the youngest of three children born to a middle class family. He was the shy, nerdy kid all throughout his youth but was rarely given any crap over it. At least by his own family. His brother - Carl - and sister - Heather - had both left home by the time he was 15. Both successful college graduates. Leaving him with a lot of pressure on his shoulders complicated by his own private issues.

It was a pretty basic suburban life for the most part. The only real differences being his problems related to a car wreck when he was ten. A damaged spinal column left him with lingering pain issues and requiring the use of a cane for day to day living. And then his burgeoning attraction to men. I mean he had a girlfriend or two during high school but the relationship that left the biggest impression on him was an illicit one with a male TA his junior and senior year of high school. Other than that pretty normal.

Tell me about the character that they play.:

I'm thinking he's either playing a human fighter berserker or a half elf fighter/thief huntsman.

What, out side of self-defense, might push the character to take a life?

Severe acts of prejudice. Like actual violent oppression of someone for innate differences. Intentional crippling of someone would probably be big on that list too.

How does the character deal with stress and/or anxiety?

Roleplaying for the most part. Where he can be what he can't be in real life. Athletic, adventurous, and unafraid of who he is. Often uses his character to relieve aggression. Outside of that his people watching is the most relaxing thing he does. Almost Zen-like for him.

Does the character have a religious belief system? How strong/weak is that faith?

His family are lip service Catholics at best. Once away from home he basically just stopped thinking about religion. He's not opposed to it and can even discuss it reasonably well but it just doesn't seem important to him most days.

How deeply has the character gotten into the personality/life of their RPG character?

He has an actual psychological profile built around his character and keeps notes of his adventures and life stories as if he was a patient. He does it for all of his characters. It's part practice, part homework, and part ritual but it makes him the group chronicler. If they need to remember what happened in a scene or session they ask him and he just looks it up in his notes.

Is there anything that the character places particular importance in?

Open mindedness is big on the list of important things for him. Curiosity is another trait he responds to very well. Being positive and accepting are big pluses for him. These traits are things he places huge importance on.

Name one thing that the character will not abide

Probably not a big shock if you've read this far but prejudice is his big no go. Especially based around sexuality or mental illness.

Name one thing that the character fears beyond all others.

The reaction of the ones he loves if they found out about him being bisexual. Seriously. He has nightmares.

Offline BlinkinTopic starter

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2015, 04:59:27 AM »
My post was eaten up several times when trying to respond via phone earlier in the day.  Bummer.

Anyway, when I mentioned the Bard I hadn't realized that everyone was already playing a spellcaster.  I was leaning that way because of their versatility; even some kits allowing them to be great even without magic.  I could consider a rogue though.  The rogues bigger badder eastern cousin would (probably) be a better choice even if the fluff really fucks with players a lot of times.

No worries, it does it to me on a routine basis and I have to walk away for a little while or throw my dinosaur of a laptop across the room. lol

If you want to offer a bard, offer a bard. It is looking like the group is going to be magic heavy regardless of what I do; everyone on E loves spell-casters and I have yet to see a group that isn't 80+% spell casters. Why should this one be any different?



Michael looks interesting :)

Offline Muse

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2015, 07:03:49 AM »
Selune specialty priests (2 types actually)

- Selune Moon-Knight
- Selune Silver Lady

(as in ADD #9509 - Forgotten Realms Warriors and Priests of the Realms book) Both kinda nice kits, SMK being more combat, and SSL being more healery.

I actually though of going toward Priestess of Elistaeree (F/C/M drow) but that would have been shooting oneself on foot and neck... *6 the XP cost (3* from multiclassing and *2 from being drow)

Actually Silverstar of Selune in Faiths and Avatars was what I was talking about.  ^_^;; 

I don't think Sworddancer of Eilistraee can be part of a multiclass.  OR rather, drow sworddancers, can't.  Half elves can multiclass with bard or ranger. 

Miroque, what drow PC rules are you looking at? 

Offline Miroque

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2015, 07:07:37 AM »
compleate Elven of course, and Elistaeree Sword dancers can multiclass, but not going to shoot myself wiht 6* XP costs.. 4* is bad enough.

Offline Muse

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2015, 08:39:05 AM »
  My copy says an additional 20% experience cost, Miroque.  (Not like Pixies and Ogre Mages.) 

  And all the drow supernatural abilities erode in the sunlight.  ^_^;; 

Offline Miroque

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2015, 10:11:16 AM »
hmm.. True... odd thou.. My PDF says 20% where my original book says : 2x.. not bad..

Actually Grey elf has error aswell. PDF= 15% book = 1.5x

I think the PDF is much later version of the rules.. and they have noticed that noone would play with those Xp penalties..

And yes, of course they erode in sunlight, thats why my character only moves anywhere under heavy clothes or by night.. like Dritzz (or how h's name is writen..)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 10:14:56 AM by Miroque »

Offline BlinkinTopic starter

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2015, 10:58:57 AM »
I think that it was a typo that wasn't caught in the original release, but was corrected in later ones. The pdf wasn't a new edition, just a copy of an edition, probably the last. No one is going to pay 1.5, 2 or 3 times the experience for anything. It would take 5,000 exp just to hit level 2 in a particular case.

I haven't decided on what amount of exp that you'll have to work with. I'll base it off of the medium for a level in a class and anything that you can work out with that number of expoints is what level you'll start out with. Don't worry about equipment or gold, I'll take care of that if we get that far.

I remind everyone that a requirement of this game is that everyone work out at least one past adventure that includes everyone. You don't have to write a big story, just a basic idea that shows a common background.

Example: The party, taking a job from the community of X for 600 GP, entered the ruins of Castle Harn to evict knoll bandits. During the adventure, this, that and the other thing was discovered and returned, sold, kept by so and so. Our dear friend Larry was lost during the mission to a vicious trap that he was stupid enough to set off because he wouldn't let the thief check the door."

Hopefully, it'll be more than that, but have fun with it. Individual acts of hoeroism, bravery or cunning might add and make everyone feel like part of a whole.  This will take place in OOC once characters are done and we're looking at the adventure. If it's really good, I'll give a significant exp reward to everyone.

Oh, and I DO use traps. I know that it's been all but abandoned in 3.x+ and Pathfinder because few want to play rogues... mainly because they're lame and pointless because there isn't anything for them to do... because no one uses traps.... but that is why I've said that you  will need a thief.

Back to the drow. I will not say that the drow cannot be evil; I recall a drow thief who turned a party in for a reward, got paid and broke them out again that night. There was some difficulty between a paladin and the thief afterward, but overall, the players thought that it was great fun... exceppt for the player of the paladin who took it personaly... but such is life. The thief was forced to split the reward though.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2015, 11:08:38 AM »
Blinkin - Rogues are one of the most played classes in 3e and Pathfinder. Consistently. All published adventure paths and modules make heavy use of traps. And rpg live stuff makes heavy use of traps. Any supplemental book that expounds on rogue abilities or traps tends to be one of the top selling for a system. Plus sneak attack is the single best combat ability in the game. Rogues are one of the best classes in 3e and Pathfinder. I really don't know where you are getting this "people don't play them" or "they are lame and pointless" sentiments. I haven't been in a tabletop or PBP D&D or Pathfinder game that didn't require a good rogue just to survive.

Offline Miroque

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2015, 11:09:22 AM »
I was thinking of C-G drow, that was disillusioned by the Chaotic machination of their goverment, and descided to split out, to life her eternity somewhere she do not need to worry X,Y,Z and then some..  Chaotic: as she dislikes rules that bind the ´so´called society, and Good: as she values, "Do to others, what you would like to be done to you". Not good as good-evil axis, but good as an principle of life.

Offline Miroque

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2015, 11:15:54 AM »
Blinkin - Rogues are one of the most played classes in 3e and Pathfinder. Consistently. All published adventure paths and modules make heavy use of traps. And rpg live stuff makes heavy use of traps. Any supplemental book that expounds on rogue abilities or traps tends to be one of the top selling for a system. Plus sneak attack is the single best combat ability in the game. Rogues are one of the best classes in 3e and Pathfinder. I really don't know where you are getting this "people don't play them" or "they are lame and pointless" sentiments. I haven't been in a tabletop or PBP D&D or Pathfinder game that didn't require a good rogue just to survive.

For counter that, Anyone in 3.x can notice traps, and most of hte traps are DC to bypass anyway... making Rogues obsolite on that count. Sneak Attack is way too situational in 3.x to be the "single" best combat ability. (if you dont believe, check Ninja.. Sudden Strike is like... 1000x better... not to mention Ninjas other tricks surpass Rogue tenfold. Rogue is only good for side class, to give Evasion).

About traps: There is dozen easier ways to get past them, that disable devices.. try: Summon Mount and make it walk 20ft before the group in dungeons.. actually best way to skip traps and most ambusses aswell... Or use Knowledge Enginering and make an metal barrel that you roll before the group.. to activate the traps.. and chains to pull it back.. or..or...or... sure, some traps are not skipped, but then there are "the famous" other route.. or simply dont go there, if there are unavoidable traps route..

3.x rogues were/are worse base class there is (easily tied with Barbarian/Fighter).

Offline deadmanshand

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2015, 11:32:02 AM »
Miroque - You are factually incorrect. Everyone can notice traps up to DC 25 to spot and only non-magical traps. So not obsolete there. How is sneak attack too situational? Improved Feint and you can sneak attack every round. Multiple times at higher levels. In Pathfinder you can take the Scout archetype and sneak attack at the end of a charge or on any turn you move ten feet or more. Massive wizard-esque levels of damage every round. Best combat ability in the game.

And none of those methods are as foolproof as having an actual trap expert in party. None of those methods detect anything other than a pit or pressure plate trap. Jesus are you used to that shitty of GMs?

3e rogues were not the worst class. Not even close. That went not even to the Barbarian or the Fighter. Ranger and Paladin were unplayable in 3e. In Pathfiner rogues are one of the best classes. Hands down.

Offline Miroque

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2015, 11:39:01 AM »
"shitty GM" comment really made my day. More elaborate traps that pits/pressure plates are nigh impossible (realitywise) to make, so yes, most of the traps are pretty simple. And when you encounter DC26+ traps everyone in the group flies, phases walls, teleports, have F/R/W save 10+ anyway. Thats for game mechanicswise. Neighter of those have anything to do with Roleplaying.

Scout in 3.x is far superior to rogue aswell, good point. Pathfinder I cant say much, but rogue might be playable there. Ranger = superior damage output vs fighter (unless ultra charge-leaper fighter) in 3.x, and depends on splash books allowed, comppanion animal could be good to insanely good. Paladin was bad , hands down, but panadins got little boost in eberron, and champions book so they  are bit over barbarian and fighter.

but, all in all, Blinkins statement still stands: 3.x all casters ruled. (well not all, but all full casters + warlock)

EDIT: Addition to the "traps and DC" : Most complicated and wellbuild traps cant be disarmed OR detected anyway.. (realisticwise)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 11:45:22 AM by Miroque »

Offline deadmanshand

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2015, 11:45:29 AM »
They are not at all hard to construct mechanically and the DC mentioned is just the check to spot them. You can have a really well hidden trap at low levels. It is not hard to get past the tactics you were describing. At all. If your GMs fall for it it is a failing on their part.

Pathfinder is a completely different animal than 3e. In 3e a Ranger would lose to a Fighter ten out of ten times if you knew what you were doing. Paladins in 3.5 got better. In 3e they were terrible. Both Ranger and Paladin were playable in 3.5 but were never really good. A decent Barb would kill both of them. In Pathfinder all are good.

Of course they ruled until a Rogue or Monk murdered the shit out of them.

Offline BlinkinTopic starter

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2015, 12:42:15 PM »
Perhaps I should move us along before this topic becomes a quibble over the merits of 3.0 and 3.5.

I'll state where I get my point of view from. I like rogues; I've played them off and on over the years. They are a huge step down from 2nd ed thieves, but we'll leve that alone.

1. In all of the games I've seen, both on line and table top, the least played class, only about 20% of groups, actually has a rogue. Mainly because few GM's bother with traps; the main purpose of a rogue aside from being skill monkies are trap finding at higher difficulty levels.
2. I've seen, or played about half of the Pathfinder adventure paths and have, perhaps 6 or 7 traps in total, and in one instance, it was literally impossible for the rogue to detect it because the DC was way too high. It was a party killer and did actually kill the party.
3. Many, many conversations with GM's who have actually stated that they do not use traps. Only 2 out of dozens have even considered using them.
4. Sneak attack is great, if you can fulfill the requirements. Those being, either denying the target of it's dex bonus, or flanking the target. A feint requires you to have a successful bluff check, which isn't always possible, and if you do, all you've done is removed a dex mod, not hit the target. So, you still have to hit to do damage. I've seen other classes, mainly in pathfinder, who do more damage just by successfully hitting a target through simple precision damage. Yes, a sneak attack is precision damage, but it's actually more difficult to use.

So, my point of view isn't without merit, it's just different than yours. Neither is wrong, and neither is exclusive of the other. In no way am I saying that your point of view is incorrect; only why I have my own point of view. I really can't tell you when was the last time that I played in a game that had a dedicated rogue, on or off-line. I've seen one rogue somewhat recently who was an archer skill monkey; nothing but the class features to even indicate that it was a rogue.

So, lets move on, shall we?

Offline deadmanshand

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2015, 12:52:06 PM »
You play in strange games then. Let's move on, I guess.

Offline Tonberryshuffle

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2015, 02:49:21 PM »
No worries, it does it to me on a routine basis and I have to walk away for a little while or throw my dinosaur of a laptop across the room. lol

If you want to offer a bard, offer a bard. It is looking like the group is going to be magic heavy regardless of what I do; everyone on E loves spell-casters and I have yet to see a group that isn't 80+% spell casters. Why should this one be any different?



Michael looks interesting :)

True I guess.  I will admit that I am currently more used to 3.X at the moment having been so long since I've played 2e.  It does sway me a bit on class choice.  I'll look through kits first though. 

Offline deadmanshand

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2015, 06:23:33 PM »
Cool. Consider my application revoked.

Offline BlinkinTopic starter

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Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2015, 06:52:32 AM »
Just as an update. I have something on the college students from Muse, Miroque, and Tonberryshuffle.

That leaves Sarah Morgan, Mysterica, Schnookums and Kythia to submit something.

At this point, we'll put things on hold until there are enough characters to continue. This isn't meant to pressure anyone, only as an update on what's going on.

Offline schnookums

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2015, 12:00:08 PM »
I should have something available by tonight

Offline Miroque

Re: Interest Check, AD&D 2nd Ed.
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2015, 12:27:16 PM »
How many players are required ?