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Author Topic: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)  (Read 6488 times)

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Offline Hemingway

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2015, 02:03:53 PM »
Wait, there's hate against mill decks? I understand they can be annoying, but I never had any success with my own in standard - in part because reanimator was very common, so my opponents actually gained more from having their cards put into their graveyard than they lost.

My girlfriend had an interesting one, though: self-mill using Mirror-Mad Phantasm, Clone, Laboratory Maniac, and card draw: You play the Mirror-Mad Phantasm, and Clone it. You then shuffle the cloned phantasm into your library, and mill until you find it again. Because there's not actually a phantasm in your library at that point ( you only run one ), you mill your entire library. Then draw a card. Effective? Not in the least. Hilarious? You bet.

Online Sprikut

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2015, 02:13:09 PM »
Plenty of people seem to really dislike playing against mill decks and I dont really understand why *shrug*

If you like that combo hemmingway. Look at a deck called "Oops all spells!" its a legacy winning deck that revolves around Dredge, Laboratory Maniac and A card from ravnica whos name I cant recall... When it enters play it mills your deck till you hit a land. You Have no lands so you mill your deck. Dread Return then lets you recall Laboratory maniac and bang you win.

Offline Geeklet

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2015, 02:53:30 PM »
Wait, there's hate against mill decks?

They can be very boring to play against and stall out the game for a loooong time.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2015, 03:13:48 PM »
They can be very boring to play against and stall out the game for a loooong time.

Sure, but that's true of a lot of archetypes - and mill is far from the most effective among them. I mean, stax is a thing. ;D

Offline Eranil Morathim

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2015, 10:00:04 AM »
mine is highly effective if maybe a bit slow 4 traumatize put half the library in the graveyad and i have cards to bring those back to my hand, 4 scalplexis when it deals damage reme the top four card of libravy from the game, if any two match repeat. 4 raven guild masters when they deal damage remove top ten cards of ligrary from the game. theres a few other small mills and a creature that i can turn into a copy of another creature. between that stuff, ways to make my mill creatures unblockable an a ridiculous amount of control its pretty solid
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 02:04:11 PM by Eranil Morathim »

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2015, 10:48:18 AM »
They can be very boring to play against and stall out the game for a loooong time.

Only in standard format.

Modern mill is crazy and every miller should be running Surgical Extraction by the fours. Don't even need the black mana, just pay the two life for it to get rid of whatever anti-mill they may have going since I known some people love to run Emarkuls, Elixirs, and other legendary Eldrazi vs mill in modern and the people who do run Surgical Extraction main board it. Plus there are creatures that trigger abilities of cards being mill of player taking damage from them, think it was one of the Guildmages that did that, but not sure which. I know it was some creature in the past m12-m13 set. Plus black mill is crazy with the one(can't remember card name) thing that makes player keep milling till they hit four land and then they stop, which is slap in face for opponent since they can be lucky or unlucky, either way that is four land gone. I known people who ran ghost quarters and snapcasters for side just to repeatedly Surgical Extraction non basic lands. Also if you go U/B, people run playset of extirpate as well(or the rich ones will, since snaps, surgicals, and extirpates will be emptying your wallet.)   

There are effective ways to kill with mill or outright mill someone out, but standard is more time consuming tasks. Unless you running some Jaces(think he was reprinted, the mill twenty one?) or something like that.

But, I outran standard mill with Jeskai aggro beatdown, so dunno. In end it depends on draws, luck, and how you play in standard, just like any other format. I never lost to mill given I play low cost but heavy hitting creatures or will outright swarm opponent before they have chance, but only in standard. I lost to modern mill with same deck, just because it wasn't 'fast' enough.

Edit: Well, maybe just snapcasters will be emptying wallet. I could of sworn extractions and extirpates were double digits as well unless they had hit a price drop since a year or so ago of checking.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 10:52:00 AM by Drake Valentine »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2015, 02:11:33 PM »
Since we're discussing mill, I just have to throw out one of my favorite cards ever: Consuming Aberration. Mill until land whenever you cast a spell, and its P/T is equal to the number of cards in opponents' graveyards. It won me a few games - mainly by swinging for 20 outright. It was fun as long as Artful Dodge was in standard.

Mill really always struck me as more of an alternate win condition in a deck that can do something else as well. Just straight-up mill is too easily countered.

Only in standard format.

Is mill even in KTK? I don't think so, anyway. So ... right now it's not a concern in standard at all.

Reanimator, on the other hand? Argh.

Offline Eranil Morathim

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2015, 02:18:53 PM »
I decided to go outright mill and control. though i did of course have pingers (tim) and a couple big blockers. I doubt its alegal deck anymore though. I have Jace too but i dont use him. Not familiar enough with planeswalker mechanics.

Online Sprikut

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2015, 03:46:12 PM »
Is mill even in KTK? I don't think so, anyway. So ... right now it's not a concern in standard at all.

Jeskai Ascendancy Combo is essentially a mill deck. Or at least the initial prototype of it was.

Offline Eranil Morathim

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2015, 10:29:29 AM »
another favorite old school combo of mine is Squee and the Fodder Cannon.

Offline DimirTopic starter

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2015, 01:49:44 PM »
To fit my username I'm in the process of making a blue/black EDH deck with Lazav as the Commander. So for only $8 dollars I got Lazav along with Consuming Aberration, Szadek, Nephalia Drownyard, Duskmantle Land, Consult the Necrosages and Mind Grind. I have some additional support at home which I'll check tonight and then I'll see what else I need.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2015, 03:22:00 PM »
Birthing Pod, Dig Through Time, and Treasure Cruise just got banned from Modern.

Dig Through Time & Treasure Cruise got banned from Legacy.

I believe they are limited in Vintage.

I find it hilarious for a common(Treasure Cruise) to get banned, especially in those formats.

Also, I am probably going to stop playing Standard format. The way they are setting it up, it rotates way too fast and I do not have that type of money to invest in a deck that will be on a shorter rotation, so will likely be playing strictly Modern now. Standard is a trap, you spend money on cards and then their price drops in modern whereas Modern at least there are cards that will hold that value.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2015, 03:29:24 PM »
Birthing Pod's banning was weird. I mean, that thing has been a staple for a while now.

I get why they did it, though. Treasure Cruise, too.

I personally like the changes coming to standard. The third set of the block is usually the weakest and least interesting anyway. And the M1X summer sets are dull as all hell.

Offline Geeklet

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2015, 03:41:45 PM »
Just because it is common, doesn't mean its not powerful. And in modern/legacy, with all the fetches and stuff, Treasure Cruise was a really cheap draw spell. I mean, in some ways it was actually better than Ancestral Recall.

As for Pod, I can understand that too, because when a single deck is so dominating that it is starting to stifle the format, something should be done.

I hear ya on the standard thing, though. Especially since lately I am not able to get out to FNM like I used to.

Offline Eranil Morathim

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2015, 03:56:00 PM »
I've discovered just how hard it is to get back to standard after being gone so long. Hell when I stopped playing, stanard was still called type 2. I have to say this much though as hard as it is to find what is and isn't standard legal, its lots of fun to find new brutal combos. I am looking forward to the day I can tweak my elfball, hopefully still keeping the meat of it and make it standard legal.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2015, 04:04:09 PM »
Just because it is common, doesn't mean its not powerful. And in modern/legacy, with all the fetches and stuff, Treasure Cruise was a really cheap draw spell. I mean, in some ways it was actually better than Ancestral Recall.

Didn't mean it in that way, I know there were some pretty broke common cards back in the day. I am just saying, Wizards know they f***ed up when making that card since it is so easy to splash just a little bit of blue for a three card draw. I had an answer to it and Dig Through Time for modern(Remand,) counter and send that back to their hand. Goodbye whatever they delve. Oh, I draw a card.

Also, made minor error. Dig Through Time is still Legacy legal, Treasure Cruise ain't.

Offline Geeklet

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2015, 04:14:58 PM »
All this though is why I love commander. Its not always as fiercely competitive, there are no "official" tournaments for it, and it is more about just having fun.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2015, 04:28:05 PM »
Commander has a weird banlist, though. Griselbrand has an oversized Commander card, and ... he's banned as a Commander.

Offline DimirTopic starter

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2015, 04:28:22 PM »
All this though is why I love commander. Its not always as fiercely competitive, there are no "official" tournaments for it, and it is more about just having fun.

This, along with only one copy of each non-basic land case.

Offline Geeklet

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2015, 05:01:52 PM »
Commander has a weird banlist, though. Griselbrand has an oversized Commander card, and ... he's banned as a Commander.

Not just as a commander, he is banned period. But the oversized cards aren't commander specific. But seriously..> Griselbrand.... in a 40 life format? Sure, I'll draw 28-35 cards at instant speed. I won't be able to instantly win after that.

This, along with only one copy of each non-basic land case.

The thing about that, though, you can bring the same deck to 10 games, and each of those games will play out differently. That is why that rule is there.

Offline CountessJess

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2015, 05:16:03 PM »
Not just as a commander, he is banned period. But the oversized cards aren't commander specific. But seriously..> Griselbrand.... in a 40 life format? Sure, I'll draw 28-35 cards at instant speed. I won't be able to instantly win after that.

The thing about that, though, you can bring the same deck to 10 games, and each of those games will play out differently. That is why that rule is there.

There are a lot of more questionable cards that are banned in Commander, honestly. Things like Braids, Rofellos, Sylvan Primordial, Primeval Titan, Emrakul, Erayo.  Griselbrand I'd agree, he just gives too much card draw, but a lot of the rest of the ban list is silly.

Offline Geeklet

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2015, 05:26:37 PM »
Braids and Rofellos were originally just banned as commander (because regular access to them could get broken as hell), but recently they did away with the seperate banned and banned as commander lists, and just combined them into one.

Primodial and Titan both provided so much advantage it turned the game into who could clone/copy them the most. Erayo drags the game out and makes it severly unfun, and combined with other cards, completely locks opponents out of the game. And Emrakul.... do I really need to explain how busted that card is in a format that can regularly hard cast it even in decks without green?

Offline Hemingway

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2015, 05:45:09 PM »
Not just as a commander, he is banned period. But the oversized cards aren't commander specific. But seriously..> Griselbrand.... in a 40 life format? Sure, I'll draw 28-35 cards at instant speed. I won't be able to instantly win after that.

I could've sworn he was only banned as Commander. ... wait, they just ban things outright now? Would explain it.

Don't get me wrong, I see why he's banned. It's just ... he's got the oversized promo card. It's just weird to me.

I've seen a lot of complaints in general about the Commander banlist. I don't really play enough with enough people to really understand those choices, though. It seems weird, given what other cards are banned, that they wouldn't ban something like Necropotence, though.

Offline Geeklet

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2015, 05:54:27 PM »
Necropotence actually has a downside, though. The other cards that do similar effects that are banned don't. besides the paying of life, of course.

Offline CountessJess

Re: Magic: The Gathering (Discussion)
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2015, 06:20:27 PM »
Braids and Rofellos were originally just banned as commander (because regular access to them could get broken as hell), but recently they did away with the seperate banned and banned as commander lists, and just combined them into one.

Primodial and Titan both provided so much advantage it turned the game into who could clone/copy them the most. Erayo drags the game out and makes it severly unfun, and combined with other cards, completely locks opponents out of the game. And Emrakul.... do I really need to explain how busted that card is in a format that can regularly hard cast it even in decks without green?

Braids and Rofellos were perfectly fine as part of the 99; but it seems silly to just ban them when they were perfectly fine as they were. Same with Erayo - she's easy enough to deal with when she's being resolved, after all.

Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial were both just powerful cards - but personally I think it's silly to ban them for being good clone targets. There are tons of good targets sitting around that do the same thing like Terastodon, or not banning the incredibly silly combo piece of Deadeye Navigator along with it.

Yes, do explain why Emrakul shouldn't be banned. Resolving him is difficult enough - cheating him out loses you the extra turn, which is the important part of the spell - and there's no reason why he, and not the other Eldrazi Titans, or Blightsteel Colossus aren't. And honestly, how do you resolve him outside of green ramp (which still takes forever)? Monoblack devotion (haha, no)? Five colour Maelstrom Archangel?