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Author Topic: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)  (Read 1459 times)

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Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« on: December 15, 2014, 08:45:54 PM »
I know that some of the people who've read the books don't like Lord of the Rings, but I am actually a big fan of them. I never read the books and have only seen the movies.

This means some information I don't have unfortunately, and one of my pondering questions is about Gandalf thanks to the Hobbit movies. *Very excited about this week and the last movie! <3*

Did Gandalf and Lady Galandria(spelling?) fall in love at some point? The unexpected journey movie kind of .... hints at it with some scenes. And from some trailers I've seen that she comes to rescue Gandalf I think in the old fortress. Maybe they are just really close friends, but it seems like more to me.. The way Gandalf looks at  her and how she speaks to him.. It is just kind of intense at times.

So I was wondering if anyone had answers for me. :)

Offline Delibee

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 08:53:17 PM »
I'm sure there's a mob of angry Tolkieniers ready to protest this idea, but I figured since I'm here and I just finished the whole series pretty recently, I'd try to chime in first. The answer is no, not even a little. This was something that Jackson did with the Hobbit movies. In the books, Galadriel is married and doesn't have any hint of a romantic relationship with anyone else. I think Celeborn, the husband, appears very briefly in the Lord of the Rings movies, but his part is downplayed to being almost nonexistent.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 08:59:54 PM »
There is nothing in any of Tolkien's works that suggests that she and Gandalf are anything more physically intimate than friends, although as holders of two of the Three rings given to the Elves - Gandalf was given Narya and Galadriel held Nenya - they may have had a bond in the knowledge of what the fate of the One Ring, for good or ill, would bring for Middle Earth.

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 09:53:04 PM »
There is nothing in any of Tolkien's works that suggests that she and Gandalf are anything more physically intimate than friends, although as holders of two of the Three rings given to the Elves - Gandalf was given Narya and Galadriel held Nenya - they may have had a bond in the knowledge of what the fate of the One Ring, for good or ill, would bring for Middle Earth.

I think there is at the very least some kind of very strong friendship bond because of interactions you see between them in the Hobbit movies. Or maybe I'm crazy, but some of the scenes just makes it appear like they are very close.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2014, 10:02:37 PM »
Wizards, such as they are, are quite enigmatic in general. I think the most that's ever said about them ever is that they came from across the sea, and there's two blue ones that don't make an appearance anywhere in the four books of the main Ring Saga, and I don't think The Simerilion goes into it either. (I know I probably spelled that wrong).

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2014, 10:20:30 PM »
I remembered that Galadriel is married because her husband appears in the Fellowship of the Ring movie. Like for one or two scenes in their Kingdom after Gandalf is lost. I thought maybe it was something like she married him for duty, since she seems the type to do that, and perhaps something happened with Gandalf? But, it can just as easily be seen as a deeply forged bond between ring bearers whose rings are connected. Or very good friends.

It was just something I wondered about since I know my knowledge isn't as extensive as most of the many Tolkien fans are. I've thought about getting into the books, but I'm not sure I am one of the people who can. The Harry Potter latter books of 500-700 pages drove me crazy with the length, so yeah. >_<

Offline consortium11

Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2014, 06:06:58 PM »
It was just something I wondered about since I know my knowledge isn't as extensive as most of the many Tolkien fans are. I've thought about getting into the books, but I'm not sure I am one of the people who can. The Harry Potter latter books of 500-700 pages drove me crazy with the length, so yeah. >_<

The Lord of the Rings isn't actually that long. While different versions and formatting obviously change it most editions are somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200 pages... which sounds massive but remember, you're actually dealing with three different books, each somewhere around 350-400 pages long. The Silmarillion (which is largely background/world building information) is slightly shorter then the other individual books and the Hobbit much shorter.

For a quick comparison the longest of the individual Lord of the Rings novels is just under 190,000 words; that's less than Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2014, 06:25:00 PM »
I agree that there isn't even a tiny hint in any of the books (LotR, Hobbit or Silmarillion) about Galadriel and Gandalf harboring any tender feelings towards each other.

BUT

Galadriel and Gandalf know each other, at least in passing, since the Years of the Trees in Valinor - since her birth. That's then thousand years plus some millennium or two. Gandalf knows all about her greatest shame, her deepest sorrow, and her curse. They are both Ringbearers, they are both members of the White Council. At this point he is one of the very few (in Middle Earth) who have seen Valinor (not her husband), the home she is banished from.

The bond may not be friendship, but even if it was camaraderie or familiarity, it has to be strong.

Offline Beorning

Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2014, 06:44:45 PM »
Please remind me: what's Galadriel's curse?

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2014, 07:13:21 PM »
Same as all the Noldor who left Valinor after the destruction of the Trees - the Curse of Mandos, alternately Doom of the Noldor. <- Both contain major Silmarillion spoilers.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 07:15:59 PM by jouzinka »

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2014, 07:16:44 PM »
Maybe I missed it, but then how do the elves return to Valinor at the end of LOTR? Or was it in that summary? Might have missed it.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2014, 07:26:13 PM »
When Erendil first sailed to the West and found (again) the way to Valinor, he got message to the Valar and the remaining Elves in Valinor about what was happening in Middle-Earth. The Valar sent a host to Middle Earth and the First Age ended (sorry for spoilers). The Valar kept the way to the West open then, but the ban on the Noldor was not lifted and every soul was judged. Galadriel was eventually permitted to come back because of her active work against evil during the Second and Third Age, culminating in the scene when Frodo offers her the Ring and she says: "I passed the test, I will go into the West and remain Galadriel."

Only special ships can reach Valinor, that's what Arwen refers to when she tells Elrond: "Whether by your will or not, there is no ship now that can bear me hence." (This was probably in the extended editions only)

And not every Elf is a Noldo - there are races among Elves, just like there are among Men (Gondorians, Rohirrim etc).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 07:33:55 PM by jouzinka »

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2014, 07:34:36 PM »
When Erendil first sailed to the West and found (again) the way to Valinor, he got message to the Valar and the remaining Elves in Valinor about what was happening in Middle-Earth. The Valar sent a host to Middle Earth and the First Age ended (sorry for spoilers). The Valar kept the way to the West open then, but the ban on the Noldor was not lifted and every soul was judged. Galadriel was eventually permitted to come back because of her active work against evil during the Second and Third Age, culminating in the scene when Frodo offers her the Ring and she says: "I passed the test, I will go into the West and remain Galadriel."

Only special ships can reach Valinor, that's what Arwen refers to when she tells Elrond: "Whether by your will or not, there is no ship now that can bear me hence."

And not every Elf is a Noldo - there are races among Elves, just like there are among Men (Gondorians, Rohirrim etc).

Ohhh okay I understand or er I think I do. I get for sure about there are different races among Elves. There are differences you can kind of see in the way certain ones behave. Like Arwen, Galadriel, and Legolas. And that FINALLY explains what Galadriel meant in that scene. I've always wondered and never found an answer, so thank you. :)

I'm personally hoping that they will stop here with the Middle Earth stories. I know after watching the Hobbit I looked up the other characters and what happens to them after Frodo, Galadriel, Bilbo, and Gandalf leave to return to Valinor. I just am hoping that they don't try to do movies on that part of it. I think that this last movie kind of ties everything into place and gives those of us fans who aren't readers of the books backstory as to what happened. Even if a few things are a bit different. Cause I know that certain small details like the relationship between Thorin and Bilbo was altered from the book. Not really relationship either, but just interaction/friendship I guess?

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2014, 07:58:50 PM »
There's a lot of magic that involved shutting off Valinor. I always imagined it as mists and wild storms and disappearance - kind of like the Bermuda triangle - because every ship that sailed West with the intent to find a way to Valinor never returned.

You are welcome. :-) Silmarillion is a great book. It took me a while to sink my teeth in it, but it was an incredibly rewarding read. It gives the Elves an entirely different flavor.

I think they will have to stop filming, since Christopher Tolkien refused to sell them any more rights. They could possibly get something together from the appendixes of LotR (like the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen or the Fall of Nmenor), but I hope they let the story rest while it still shines with all its glory.

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 08:06:59 PM »
Thank goodness for that. These days everyone has to go about continuing when they should leave it at a bittersweet ending or a wonderful ending that wraps it all up in a pretty bow(sort of). So I'm also hoping that this is it. Continuing it would just make it really bad unless it was an entirely different movie separated from the two trilogies.

I'm absolutely dying to go to the movies tonight, but being broke doesn't make that kind of thing happen. I can't wait to see it. :D

Offline Annisthyrienne

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2014, 08:18:16 PM »
There is a movie on Youtube about the parents of Aragorn and when he was born into a group of Dunedien (sp?) Rangers.  I think it's called 'Born of Hope' or something like that.  It was pretty good, but I don't know how much it was based on the Tolkien history, maybe not at all.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2014, 12:56:11 AM »
Born of Hope is a fan funded movie and yes, it was rather good. I liked Hunt for Gollum better. :-)

Offline Stella

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2014, 02:38:12 AM »
Both of those movies were amazing. Really brilliant, high-quality fan projects.

Offline Lilias

Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2014, 05:29:30 AM »
I wouldn't mind seeing The Children of Hurin brought to the big screen. :-) But above all, I hope Blind Guardian do get around to putting together that Nightfall in Middle-Earth stage production they've been tinkering with for a decade. That would be totally

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2014, 05:34:27 AM »
*stares wide eyed* lol, it looks like I have a list of fan-made movies to check out! I didn't even know about those ones, so that definitely is something that I'll have to check out. :D

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2014, 08:25:32 AM »
The Lord of the Rings isn't actually that long. While different versions and formatting obviously change it most editions are somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200 pages... which sounds massive but remember, you're actually dealing with three different books, each somewhere around 350-400 pages long. The Silmarillion (which is largely background/world building information) is slightly shorter then the other individual books and the Hobbit much shorter.

For a quick comparison the longest of the individual Lord of the Rings novels is just under 190,000 words; that's less than Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

^This. I read each book in less than a day.

Which is why I am not too fond of the movies, the movies can only cover so much.

Which is also funny how they are making so many movies off of the Hobbit, I wished the actual trilogy got the same attention cause there is so much left out.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 08:26:45 AM by Drake Valentine »

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2014, 08:45:50 AM »
^This. I read each book in less than a day.

Which is why I am not too fond of the movies, the movies can only cover so much.

Which is also funny how they are making so many movies off of the Hobbit, I wished the actual trilogy got the same attention cause there is so much left out.

I think that probably bound to be the exact opposite of this. Since I watched the movies first and didn't read the books I am probably going to like the movies better. Movies can definitely only cover so much, and if they tried to fit every little detail into a movie it would become much longer than they are and probably lose audiences. I know my mom could barely sit through the Two Towers in theaters because of the length. And because of that she never went to see the Return of the King. I know that for Harry Potter since I read the books before watching the movies I got a bit irritated about scenes I was so looking forward to seeing on screen and they never added them in. But, unfortunately, the same applies to those movies too. Most targeted audiences wouldn't sit still for much longer of lengths then the movies have been for.

Offline mia h

Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2014, 11:05:58 AM »
The Lord of the Rings isn't actually that long. While different versions and formatting obviously change it most editions are somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200 pages... which sounds massive but remember, you're actually dealing with three different books...

From the intro in my hard copy
Quote
The Lord of the Rings is often erroneously called a trilogy, when it is in fact a single novel, consisting of six books plus appendices, sometimes published in three volumes
It was first published in 1954 and they still haven't fixed all the typos in the text

Offline The Gothic RavenTopic starter

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Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2014, 09:25:53 PM »
Now that I've seen the final Hobbit movie.... I have to say it left me somewhat disappointed. I saw it in 3D and it was my first movie ever in 3D and for some reason the 3D part of it ruined some of the storyline scenes. The action scenes were pretty awesome with swords and fire, but.... the plot scenes? It was like watching cut/edited behind the scenes footage. I'll have to watch it again in 2D sometime soon, but it wasn't quite worth all the excitement I felt for most of the beginning of it. The middle and ending were pretty good, though.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Question about Lord of the Rings character(few spoilers!)
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2014, 10:13:23 PM »
When Erendil first sailed to the West and found (again) the way to Valinor, he got message to the Valar and the remaining Elves in Valinor about what was happening in Middle-Earth. The Valar sent a host to Middle Earth and the First Age ended (sorry for spoilers). The Valar kept the way to the West open then, but the ban on the Noldor was not lifted and every soul was judged. Galadriel was eventually permitted to come back because of her active work against evil during the Second and Third Age, culminating in the scene when Frodo offers her the Ring and she says: "I passed the test, I will go into the West and remain Galadriel."

Only special ships can reach Valinor, that's what Arwen refers to when she tells Elrond: "Whether by your will or not, there is no ship now that can bear me hence." (This was probably in the extended editions only)

And not every Elf is a Noldo - there are races among Elves, just like there are among Men (Gondorians, Rohirrim etc).

 I've read the Silmarillion several times (it is an interesting if a very dry read) and didn't get the impression that the Noldor, or any of the other Elven waves/clans were banned from Valinor after Melkor/Morgoth was defeated. As far as I know the ban was put in place originally to keep those who left Valinor from returning until after Melkor was dealt with. After he was put down they were free to return if they wanted to and any elf that had never seen Valinor could sail to the land. But only elves, or very close special friends, and the wizards can sail to the land which had been removed from the bounds of the earth. So I don't get the impression any test is needed by any elf to pass into Valinor.