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Author Topic: Movie debates! :)  (Read 1181 times)

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Offline MissRozielTopic starter

Movie debates! :)
« on: December 08, 2014, 03:05:40 PM »
So I've been watching movie reveiws and am surprised by the diffrent arguments (why X film is good or bad from diffrent people)  and thought it was neat to see diffrent people opinions.

I like a lot of movies other people don't and I also don't like movies that other people seem to love. But from the sounds of it I might not be the only one.

---------------------------

Purpose.

Ok so the point of this thread is simple,  Give us a movie you either Love btu everyone else hates, or you hate but everyone else loves (Generalize everyone)

From there list the whys and hows, what is it about the movie that makes you feel that way? who knows maybe you'll bring someone over to your way of thinking or make a new friend who feels the same way :)

Since I started the thread Ill go first to give you an idea.

--------------------------

So, the movie I don't like, but everyone else seems to love, is

Hunger games

While I have disliked the basic premise since the books came out, The film took my dislike to a new level. Ignoring the fact that this is a film about kids slaughtering each other for entertainment (which is some how supposed to be a commentary about how that's bad but uh we're still watching it for entertainment....)

The kids themselves, the ones we get to know anyway, don't act like kids, You get a snippet here or there of believable reaction and then it's Hollywood kid, again.  Another things that really bothers me about it is how I've seen people give it a free pass because of its 'social commentary' Like if you tack a message on your movie then you can film any type of horrifying vile violent thing and you're suddenly so deep because it had meaning. when really it's just another bloody action film with pseudo drama a forced romance/non romance?  and poor writing, which, isn't all the screen writers fault, A lot of issues come from the source material.  I just don't find it enjoyable in anyway.


Now a movie I enjoy a Lot but people seem to hate is Twister (with Helen Hunt and B-pax)

So setting aside the fact I met B-pax at a convention two years ago and he was just an awesome person to talk to... :)

Ahem. anyway, I Used to be so terrified of twister, I don't know why but when I was a kid it scared me.  a large part of it probably was due to the fact that at the time we lived in an area known as 'tornado ally' where the weather conditions and topography was well suited for a tornado to occur.  When I first watched it all the way through I found myself fascinated by it. I liked JO, I wanted to be her when I grew up I thought the weather jargon was fascinating, I wanted to chase storms and do that type of work. help make better tornado warning and stuff.

The humor I enjoy.  I know a lot of people think the jokes are silly or repetitive but I like them, it could be because with autism I find straight forward obvious humor funny because I can understand it, but either way, I like it :)

-------------------------------------------

Ok so You don't have to do one of each I just did so you guys could see what I had in mind :)

I'd love to see your opinions,  and discussions

But No picking fights just because someone likes or doesn't like a movie

Be nice.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 03:33:48 PM »
Oh this should be fun!

Well one movie I enjoyed that few did would be Pirates of the Caribbean on Stranger Tides. While the movie was one of the weaker entries into the season I really didn't care. Jack Sparrow is one of Disney's coolest modern characters and just to get the chance to see Jack on the screen again talking his way out of situations and have a crazy impossible escape scene made it worth it. I wanted to see Jack Sparrow have another adventure and I got just that so I felt I got my money's worth.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 03:47:01 PM »
I thought Hunger Games was okay, it was good for young adults, but it's not The Giver. Twister has got one of the best straight lines in a movie ever. It's when they run into a barn and there's all the tools and traps, and Hunt goes something to the effect of, "What the kind of people are these!"

My turn:

The movie I kind of think people pan but was really good if you liked that sci-fantasy action-adventure romp was The Chronicles of Riddick. Sure it wasn't the terror of Pitch Black, but I like that the creators realized that Riddick was a much wider universe as a whole and going directly back to Pitch Black would be a mistake. I don't think Riddick (the third film in the live-action set) would have been as good without Chronicles setting up the wider universe. People point to the PG-13 rating as some kind of symbol of its suckitude, but I don't get it personally.


The one I don't get that was insanely popular was James Cameron's Avatar. I could make the Smurf and Pocahontas jokes, but even without that it's a three hour movie and I had predicted the entirety of the plot within the first forty-five minutes to an hour. The movie is very hypocritical by virtue of its own existence. It's an anti-technology that requires some of the most advanced computing tech we have on the planet. Its green message (something I'm not expressly opposed to) brutally obvious, and the narrative beat you over the head with it every thirty seconds.

The science is basically a giant excuse at best and nonexistent or wrong at worse. Plus there are several plot holes that never got addressed. Like why they never could explain why the Earthlings needed the stuff (it's implied that it screws over Earth royally), and the motivation for getting said stuff was simple greed. Not just ambition, but simple GI Joe's Cobra level villainy. :P

I just can't believe people killed themselves over this movie. :( 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 07:27:02 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Beorning

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2014, 03:48:37 AM »
Wait, people killed themselves over Avatar???  :o

When it comes to me, I have two examples from the horror genre.

Suspiria is the movie everybody seems to love, but not me. For some time, I've heard how this movie from Dario Argento is one of the best (and scariest) horror movies ever made. Eventually, I watched it... and I was quite disappointed. Sure, the movie is quite interesting visually. Sure, it has this brilliant theme... but the plot is paper-thin and not that scary, actually. I really am not sure why this movie gets so much praise.

Horror At 37,000 Feet is TV horror with William Shatner that usually gets lambasted around the web. I had an opportunity to see it and... okay, it's not a great movie. It's definitely a low budget affair. Still, I actually do like the idea for the plot (an ancient altar transported in a passenger plane unleashes supernatural forces) and I definitely do like the ending, which I found quite atmospheric. I really don't understand the hate this movie is getting? There are much worse horror movies out there...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 03:53:09 AM by Beorning »

Offline rick957

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 04:32:53 PM »
Quote
So, the movie I don't like, but everyone else seems to love, is

Hunger games

While I have disliked the basic premise since the books came out, The film took my dislike to a new level. Ignoring the fact that this is a film about kids slaughtering each other for entertainment (which is some how supposed to be a commentary about how that's bad but uh we're still watching it for entertainment....)

The kids themselves, the ones we get to know anyway, don't act like kids, You get a snippet here or there of believable reaction and then it's Hollywood kid, again.  Another things that really bothers me about it is how I've seen people give it a free pass because of its 'social commentary' Like if you tack a message on your movie then you can film any type of horrifying vile violent thing and you're suddenly so deep because it had meaning. when really it's just another bloody action film with pseudo drama a forced romance/non romance?  and poor writing, which, isn't all the screen writers fault, A lot of issues come from the source material.  I just don't find it enjoyable in anyway.

Since the OP invited opinions/discussions ... I wonder if these opinions you mentioned, MissRoziel, are representative of the popular response to this film.  I mean, I know the books and movies are super-successful, but I wonder how many people felt that the violence in the story was put there to titillate or to appeal in some sensationalistic way.  I viewed the first HG movie as a shockingly insightful allegory of sorts ... along the lines of Orwell's 1984 or Animal Farm, an extended social commentary ... and one which -- rather than glorifying violent imagery in entertainment -- directly questioned the decadence of modern pop culture and a society in which adults are thrown into a vicious kind of competition for financial resources at the expense of their youthful ideals and dreams.  (Thoughts -- anyone?)

Offline Leaon33

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 04:56:23 PM »
It was always my understanding that the Hunger Games functioned solely for plot and conflict- a repressive authoritarian police state AND they make adolescents fight to the death for the entertainment of spoiled rich people with weird fashion sense? Now that's gonna hook people's attention and get readers.

I doubt Suzanne Collins had many social commentary plans in mind.

Offline rick957

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 05:15:36 PM »
Wow -- you might be right, Leaon33, but I wouldn't know one way or the other.  I haven't read the books or even followed the press about the whole Hunger Games phenomena in terms of its popular success.  I just saw the first movie in a hotel room by accident and got totally sucked in.  :)

The thing is, what is the point of the plot, if it isn't social commentary?  The plot is much, much too strange to be guaranteed of any popular success simply because it features authoritarianism and whatever else.  On the surface of it, there are a million unsold sci-fi novels that explore the same territory, basically, so it can't sell on that basis alone.  I would think.  But, who knows?  :) 

Any HG authorities out there who can chip in two cents?

Offline MissRozielTopic starter

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 05:33:05 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by my thought being, representative of, the film? I'm lost sorry I'm not that smart *sheepish* Basically my point is, books and films are a form of entertainment, so Making the focus of said book and film, Children murdering each other for entertainment, seems compleatly contradictory to the message.

as I understand it the author had no big allegorical Ideals behind the book until, as it gained popularity, she was accused of plagiarizing a Japanese Series called battle Royal (My foot isn't in that pond as Battle royal wasn't even the first to follow that sort of idea However they do have disturbingly similar plot points and focus.)

After these allegations of plagiarism rose The author came out claiming she got the idea after witnessing the rise of violence in media and The popularity of Reality TV shows.

Now weather this is true or not, I don't know but I do find it odd that she didn't voice this Ideal, Prior to the claims of plagiarism.

Besides all of that however, I dislike the movie for a lot of other reasons Ok take away popularity, Take away the books, Veiw the film as just an original story with no Tie in to anything else. There are a lot of problems with the film right from the start, There are contradictory facts (Like a community that is established as very poor and scrounging for food Having a bakery let alone one that can teach complex Cake decoration the likes of allowing for camouflage, Or how katniss creates traps she never uses, Or the big freak out after one of the fighters dies.  This has been happening for years,  Why did this guy suddenly get upset Now when it was cinimatically convenient....)

From a film making stand point It's difficult to watch, some of the editing is very choppy and the sound mixing could use some work.  I don't know what studio head on high keeps asking for shaky cam, but he needs to be fired.  The screen writer did Ok but theres some diolog and scene that make no sense, nor do they take into account the people ages,  Theres this one part where katniss fights another girl that she is clearly older then,  So why is Katniss having trouble,  Katnis should easily be able to kick her butt not because of skill but because at their ages katnis is simply bigger and stronger, it sucks but thats athe thing about kids, their still developing.

With this kind of idea If you're going to go with kids you need to consider how Kids work, and it dosen't, At all, Over all if the film hadn't hage a huge Book fan following and had just been green lit as just a basic hollywood action film, I doubt it would have gotten more then an 'Oh that's interesting' Meh reaction from the public.

-----------------------------------------------------

Now that's a Lot of bile and please feel free to continue the discussion but I'm also going to post another movie I like but people don't

Constantine

I've seen a lot of criticism lobbied at this, In part because People don't like Keeanu Reeves, and in part from the DC fan community who have read the comics and Having read a lot of them myself, I agree, this isn't really Constantine.

But

I saw this movie Way before I even knew there was a comic, It just had two of my favorite actors in it, it had supernatural themes and for goodness sakes it's Like a ghost detective how awesome is that!  Ok so to brass tacks,  yes theres flaws, The buggy demon that attacks him After he faces Gabriel is never explained, like ever, it just happens and then he goes to see midnight, and it's never spoken of again.

Why is he living above an abandoned bowling ally? I mean ok so they set it in the states even though it's set in England in the comic, that's fine Like I said Saw the movie first anyway but still, why an abandoned bowling ally?

But regardless I Really like it, I really liked the idea of the look of heven and hell Looking like the real world but Hell is this burned out apocalyptic looking scenery and heaven Is like I dunno LA if it was clean LOL You only see it briefly so Theres not to much to say but it still looks cool, I like that concept. I liked the eye thing they did for the breeds to distinguish them from humans. Over all I just enjoy it I can't even call it a guilty pleasure because I don't feel bad about it

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 07:00:37 PM »

Quote
With this kind of idea If you're going to go with kids you need to consider how Kids work, and it dosen't, At all, Over all if the film hadn't hage a huge Book fan following and had just been green lit as just a basic hollywood action film, I doubt it would have gotten more then an 'Oh that's interesting' Meh reaction from the public.

I think it's worth at least pointing out that if the book hadn't had a huge fan following, it may never have gotten made into a movie at all, so that is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Hollywood has never failed to follow the smell of money.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 09:25:01 PM »
When looking at a franchise like "The Hunger Games" and the reasons for its success you might want to look at what else is popular at the time.  The concept can be fresh and because of great technical aspects, talented actors, super directing and pre-release buzz it will hit the theaters and wow the audiences.  That spawns a group of copy-cat films that succeed simply because the original created a need that the followers can fill.

Take a step farther back in the process and movies based on books will have the same situation.  Vampires are a staple for Hollywood; always have been.  The trend was building in the publishing industry when Twilight came along.  Young adult fantasy has been popular, too, so the books achieved success with characters which were not your parents vampires.  They received both critical acclaim and bashing and have dampened the genre for the time being in films though books, both series addons and new series starts or stand alones, are still popular.

In fact, Twilight had gained its own version of popularity simply because of the polarization it created among critics.

Offline rick957

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2014, 09:29:32 PM »
Thanks for the detailed comments! -- it helps a lot to see how other people reacted to the film (and the phenomena surrounding it, publishing etc.).  I had some of the same reactions but also found a lot to like about it, so I ended up loving that first movie. 

The second one I also liked but had problems with.  I just saw the third one and was really disappointed, unfortunately.  :(  But then again, watching a movie can be fun even if it's disappointing in some ways.  I may even watch it over again to give it a second chance, or else figure out why I wasn't satisfied the first time.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 09:31:09 PM by rick957 »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2014, 09:45:20 PM »
When looking at a franchise like "The Hunger Games" and the reasons for its success you might want to look at what else is popular at the time.  The concept can be fresh and because of great technical aspects, talented actors, super directing and pre-release buzz it will hit the theaters and wow the audiences.  That spawns a group of copy-cat films that succeed simply because the original created a need that the followers can fill.

Take a step farther back in the process and movies based on books will have the same situation.  Vampires are a staple for Hollywood; always have been.  The trend was building in the publishing industry when Twilight came along.  Young adult fantasy has been popular, too, so the books achieved success with characters which were not your parents vampires.  They received both critical acclaim and bashing and have dampened the genre for the time being in films though books, both series addons and new series starts or stand alones, are still popular.

In fact, Twilight had gained its own version of popularity simply because of the polarization it created among critics.
I need to write me a young-adult book series. I think the only larger market is harlequin romances. :P

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2014, 09:49:02 PM »
I need to write me a young-adult book series. I think the only larger market is harlequin romances. :P

Seems like a young-adult harlequin romance would be the most best-selling thing ever.

Wait. That's Twilight.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2014, 09:52:51 PM »
Seems like a young-adult harlequin romance would be the most best-selling thing ever.

Wait. That's Twilight.
XD You're too good for the internet, man, too good.

Offline Mathim

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 02:46:30 PM »
Seems like a young-adult harlequin romance would be the most best-selling thing ever.

Wait. That's Twilight.

That's the other thing that totally blew my mind about Twilight. It's supposed to be a Mormon-based propaganda piece on abstinence until marriage and anti-abortion sentiment that's been sexualized beyond all rationality for such subject matter. To me that's worse hypocrisy than anything Avatar or the Hunger Games committed.

But I second the hate on Avatar. So overrated, people were calling it the best movie they'd ever seen and I almost wanted to smack them for being so shallow. Yeah, it looks pretty, but aren't there better stories out there that deserve that treatment more than this?

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Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2014, 02:54:23 PM »
Horror At 37,000 Feet is TV horror with William Shatner that usually gets lambasted around the web. I had an opportunity to see it and... okay, it's not a great movie. It's definitely a low budget affair. Still, I actually do like the idea for the plot (an ancient altar transported in a passenger plane unleashes supernatural forces) and I definitely do like the ending, which I found quite atmospheric. I really don't understand the hate this movie is getting? There are much worse horror movies out there...

When I first read this bit, I had it completely confused with another Shatner appearance albeit a much shorter one.

Offline Mathim

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2014, 03:01:58 PM »
When I first read this bit, I had it completely confused with another Shatner appearance albeit a much shorter one.

So did I! I'm going to have to check this other title out...

Offline Beorning

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2014, 04:15:13 PM »
That's the other thing that totally blew my mind about Twilight. It's supposed to be a Mormon-based propaganda piece on abstinence until marriage and anti-abortion sentiment

Wait, *what*?  :o

When I first read this bit, I had it completely confused with another Shatner appearance albeit a much shorter one.

No, no, it's a whole other story. The Twilight Zone episode with Shatner is considered rather good, isn't it? Meanwhile, that movie I mentioned usually gets bad reviews. But personally, I found it better than expected...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2014, 04:22:34 PM »
Wait, *what*?  :o


A rather bizarre and utterly unfounded conspiracy theory that draws pretty much solely from the fact that Stephanie Meyer is Mormon. She's even publicly refuted it, quoth Wikipedia:
Quote
Meyer says that she does not consciously intend her novels to be Mormon-influenced, or to promote the virtues of sexual abstinence and spiritual purity, but admits that her writing is shaped by her values, saying,

    I don't think my books are going to be really graphic or dark, because of who I am. There's always going to be a lot of light in my stories.[44]


Sure, abstinence is shown as a good thing in Twilight. But so is the regular consumption of an addictive liquid substance (that gives you immortality and superpowers), and that's not exactly pro-Mormon.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 04:26:45 PM by TheGlyphstone »

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Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2014, 04:26:34 PM »
It is considered one of the classic episodes of the series, and was remade once with John Lithgow as the passenger, and later referenced in many other shows, including an episode of Third Rock From The Sun where Lithgow's character interacts with a character played by Shatner.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0058247/quotes

Offline Beorning

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2014, 04:45:51 PM »
Sure, abstinence is shown as a good thing in Twilight. But so is the regular consumption of an addictive liquid substance (that gives you immortality and superpowers)

Tea, I gather? ;)

It is considered one of the classic episodes of the series, and was remade once with John Lithgow as the passenger, and later referenced in many other shows, including an episode of Third Rock From The Sun where Lithgow's character interacts with a character played by Shatner.

Yes, I thought so. :) Curiously, I first learned of that story from an episode of Johnny Bravo that homaged it...  ::)

Offline Mathim

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2014, 05:03:11 PM »
A rather bizarre and utterly unfounded conspiracy theory that draws pretty much solely from the fact that Stephanie Meyer is Mormon. She's even publicly refuted it, quoth Wikipedia:

Sure, abstinence is shown as a good thing in Twilight. But so is the regular consumption of an addictive liquid substance (that gives you immortality and superpowers), and that's not exactly pro-Mormon.

Yeah, and Suzanne Collins denies ripping off Battle Royale. These shills will say anything to keep their ability to make money for themselves and the others who stand to profit off their crap. To take one word out of their mouths at face value is folly. Seriously, you should see the crap that the screenplay writer said about it, being able to square their beliefs which supposedly contradicted Meyers' but then still putting the entire pro-life bent on it, hilarious. It's like watching John Brittle from Django Unchained, believing fully in his own bullshit. But I digest.

And personally I think the Simpsons Halloween special that parodied Nightmare at 20,000 feet was the best reference to it.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 05:07:09 PM by Mathim »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2014, 05:25:37 PM »
Source, please? About the screenwriter thing, not Battle Royale.


Offline Inkidu

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Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2014, 05:48:51 PM »
Look, there's a phrase in writing (ironically lifted from Psalms in the Bible I think) that goes, "There is nothing new under the sun."

Avatar (the film) rips off a Russian novel. The authors of that book were rather cordial about it. I think they should have sued personally.

While yes Hunger Games does pull the teenagers killing each other there is a difference. You could argue that any book or movie where kids go all melee on each other is the institutionalized extension of William Golding's The Lord of the Flies. They actually cover a very interesting core concept though they go about it differently.

*Shrugs*

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Movie debates! :)
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2014, 06:03:33 PM »
And even a direct ripoff can still be good on its own merits. The Magnificent Seven is blatantly and unapologetically Seven Samurai WITH COWBOYS!!!, and it's still regarded as a pillar of the Western film genre.