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Author Topic: Strange co-incidence  (Read 3306 times)

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Offline LilianTopic starter

Strange co-incidence
« on: May 03, 2005, 03:00:31 AM »
Lilac, have you read recent news on RPOL?  It seems that they are going to make all adult games require a monthly subscription to be able to play them. The move to the forums couldnt have come at a better time, ne'?

Offline Hunter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2005, 03:08:36 AM »
Unfortunately, I saw it coming quite a while ago.  Can't say that I'm surprised, really.  And yes, the move was well timed.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2005, 04:24:50 AM »
Well this game is in the clear. However that leaves others I still play (or run) on RPOL.

As a concept Iím not completely against a pay-to-play. If they can run an adult section free of underage and riffraff itís a good thing on one hand. So far, the monthly/annual estimates arenít looking that bad.

Some people may squawk at $5 a month or so, but truth is a lot of smokers out there spend that much on cigarettes in a day. Iím going to see how this goes, because high or hell water, Misty Veil will endure.

Offline Lilac

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2005, 10:15:31 AM »
Well this game is in the clear. However that leaves others I still play (or run) on RPOL.

As a concept Iím not completely against a pay-to-play. If they can run an adult section free of underage and riffraff itís a good thing on one hand. So far, the monthly/annual estimates arenít looking that bad.

Well, that's what the introduction requirement is for.  Convince us you're mature - or well, me for now, anyway.  Anyone can lie, after all.

And yeah, I kindof expected something like this was going to happen.  Surprised it happenned so soon though.

All games are welcome here, of course, if they can respect our rules.  That does mean the incest and pedo games won't have a home, but I'm fine with that.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2005, 12:41:57 PM »
What surprises me about reading through that thread on RPoL is that someone keeps specifically bringing up Elven Maiden and (it seems to me) implying that it and M&M didn't break any of the rules set out in the "unsavoury content" posts. I'm not a big fan of dictatorships, but that's sort of what most places on the net are. Any IRC network, webpage, blogging site, etc, will always have an admin and/or server owner behin it whose standards are to be upheld because, well, it's their ball and they can tell you not to play with it if they don't like the way you're using it. If you don't like it, they can take their ball and go home and you're free to find another game of four-square.

I hope we never have to go to the extend that RPoL had to go to (deleting games), but honestly, if we got a game through here whose concept we felt was breaking our rules, we'd do the same thing. Right now, we're a small community, and so we may decide that the game in question has a good thing going on and includes all mature writers and yada yada yada. But were we as big as RPoL has come to be, we more than likely would not have time to read through the posts and make that call.

I like the idea they've had of registering in order to play adult games, but I don't agree with the idea of forcing someone to pay for that particular genre when, for example, the violence junkies can get away with just a mature flag and disappear to another part of RPoL. In that, I feel kinda discriminated against - a lot of the erotica I read (and I like to think the stuff I write, too) is better-written than some "omg powar!!!!!" DBZ-based game over there. I'm of two minds on this, though, because while I recognise that in RP, writing style and skill doesn't necessarily make something more or less worthwhile, nor do I feel that *my* writing should be deemed less worthwhile because of the genre in which I choose to RP. And that's the judgement I feel has been passed down with this proposed system. And I post this here mostly because it's nice to vent and opine an get some sort of feedback, but I really don't want to add this to the general RPoL forums because I can't bring up a whole lot of points that virtual4sight hasn't already raised.

Maybe I'm just bitching, too. :P

Offline Hunter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2005, 02:33:40 PM »
Yes but given jase jumped down virtual4sight's throat for his comments only reinforces my opinion that he's deliberately making the adult section a "pay to play" area in spite of his repeated claims that he's not.

After all, the only real feature that the average user would want to subscribe is for access to the adult section.  Everything else will already be free....

*makes a pushing aside motion*
Enough said.

Offline Lilac

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2005, 03:09:49 PM »
What surprises me about reading through that thread on RPoL is that someone keeps specifically bringing up Elven Maiden and (it seems to me) implying that it and M&M didn't break any of the rules set out in the "unsavoury content" posts. I'm not a big fan of dictatorships, but that's sort of what most places on the net are. Any IRC network, webpage, blogging site, etc, will always have an admin and/or server owner behin it whose standards are to be upheld because, well, it's their ball and they can tell you not to play with it if they don't like the way you're using it. If you don't like it, they can take their ball and go home and you're free to find another game of four-square.

I hope we never have to go to the extend that RPoL had to go to (deleting games), but honestly, if we got a game through here whose concept we felt was breaking our rules, we'd do the same thing. Right now, we're a small community, and so we may decide that the game in question has a good thing going on and includes all mature writers and yada yada yada. But were we as big as RPoL has come to be, we more than likely would not have time to read through the posts and make that call.

Well, Jase is intentionally ignoring me - I don't know who's referring to my games?  Or maybe I'm looking at the wrong thread.

Regardless, this place is more personal than rpol, and I hope that that can make things a little nicer, in all respects.

Offline v4s

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2005, 05:20:56 PM »
Folks, the truth hurts. He can deny my implications all he wants. The fact is, the action of the RPoL staff over the last few months have been to appease a small minority of people whose sensitivites are offended by erotica. Pushing Adult games out or restricting their content will only result in folks attempting to hide it within their games and increase the moderation efforts that will be involved. As far as keeping out minors, it won't happen. The major companies can't stop it, what makes them think they can do it.

I have not received a post from one of the people in any of my games stating they would pay to play Adult games. They fail to understand that there are free sites available to play Adult games.  Or maybe they do understand that and realize their actions will send the Adult games to another site, i.e. here or playbyweb. Regardless, as was mentioned above, there is not one feature that I as a player, would pay to have access to.  Just don't see why I would need them. Everything that I need now is already available and according to Jase's comment will be available free under the subscription system.

Therefore, I'd pay for GMing and playing Adult games. Not gonna happen. I'll come here and support Lilac and the folks here. I'm even considering adding another site to the mix, not that I don't want to support this site but to reduce the bandwidth issues and moderation issues. All my games would easily fit in to the rules here so they'd be a good fit. I even think several of my players are already here, huh Hunter.


Offline Thorne

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2005, 05:35:36 PM »
*Shrugs*
Really, the answer is very simple - if you don't like the way he runs things, don't play there - free or not.

I don't mind. I can see where he's coming from - even agree with it.
I don't really see any point in bitching about it (Getting it out of one's system aside, of course. ^^) and have pretty much bowed out of the on-going debate after one post.

I plan on doing the same here.
I didn't come here to debate why people are people - I came here to play, practice my 'deviant' writing a little and generally enjoy myself.

*pads off to see if there's anyone online who'll play with her...*

Offline v4s

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2005, 05:39:24 PM »
Smiles

Offline Hunter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2005, 06:03:16 PM »
Guilty as charged.

I may end up moving my erotic Sailor Moon game to another server, (hopefully this one  *bats eyelashes cutely*) simply because.  Even though I'm a "right wing conservative", I'd rather have adult game about stuff than people actually out doing it.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2005, 01:04:49 AM »
Even though I'm a "right wing conservative", I'd rather have adult game about stuff than people actually out doing it.

Agreed. Thereís nothing unhealthy about a little fantasy if it stays that way. Even the more twisted stuff.

And youíll forgive me if I laugh and scoff at the conservatives that maintain that the mere act of thinking a thing is just as bad as doing it.

Bullcrap. If that were true, Iíd already be in Hell. I have to live inside here 24/7 and I KNOW what goes on.  :P

Offline queenserpentine

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2005, 11:56:27 AM »
What surprises me about reading through that thread on RPoL is that someone keeps specifically bringing up Elven Maiden and (it seems to me) implying that it and M&M didn't break any of the rules set out in the "unsavoury content" posts. I'm not a big fan of dictatorships, but that's sort of what most places on the net are. Any IRC network, webpage, blogging site, etc, will always have an admin and/or server owner behin it whose standards are to be upheld because, well, it's their ball and they can tell you not to play with it if they don't like the way you're using it. If you don't like it, they can take their ball and go home and you're free to find another game of four-square.

I hope we never have to go to the extend that RPoL had to go to (deleting games), but honestly, if we got a game through here whose concept we felt was breaking our rules, we'd do the same thing. Right now, we're a small community, and so we may decide that the game in question has a good thing going on and includes all mature writers and yada yada yada. But were we as big as RPoL has come to be, we more than likely would not have time to read through the posts and make that call.

I like the idea they've had of registering in order to play adult games, but I don't agree with the idea of forcing someone to pay for that particular genre when, for example, the violence junkies can get away with just a mature flag and disappear to another part of RPoL. In that, I feel kinda discriminated against - a lot of the erotica I read (and I like to think the stuff I write, too) is better-written than some "omg powar!!!!!" DBZ-based game over there. I'm of two minds on this, though, because while I recognise that in RP, writing style and skill doesn't necessarily make something more or less worthwhile, nor do I feel that *my* writing should be deemed less worthwhile because of the genre in which I choose to RP. And that's the judgement I feel has been passed down with this proposed system. And I post this here mostly because it's nice to vent and opine an get some sort of feedback, but I really don't want to add this to the general RPoL forums because I can't bring up a whole lot of points that virtual4sight hasn't already raised.

Maybe I'm just bitching, too. :P
I agree wholeheartedly. He could have and should have been a little less poncy about the way he went about this and instead of winning the cockmaster of the year award (which I now believe he sorely deserves) he could've at least given us the respect that he seems to show people who promote "violence". I'm sorry but violence is more harmful to children than anything else because well, lets face it, we become desensitised to it all. I'm glad i'm not the only one with my back up against this because to me it was almost like a child with an old toy, as soon as it grows up, they forget about it.

Offline Hunter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2005, 02:12:53 PM »
*repeats what he said before*

It's been fairly apparent that it's an attempt to more or less wipe out the adult section.  After all, I don't think most of the other features are worth the submission price.

*hugs Lilac for giving us a new sandbox*

Offline Trieste

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Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2005, 04:42:29 PM »
I may end up moving my erotic Sailor Moon game to another server, (hopefully this one  *bats eyelashes cutely*) simply because.  Even though I'm a "right wing conservative", I'd rather have adult game about stuff than people actually out doing it.

... erotic... sailor... moon.

O_o

This I have to see. O_o

Offline Hunter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2005, 05:06:28 PM »
It's kinda like sailor moon porn.  Only with words.   ;D

Offline Lilac

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2005, 12:16:43 AM »
It's kinda like sailor moon porn.  Only with words.   ;D

That reminds me, I need to get the gallery up...

Offline The Overlord

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2005, 12:58:07 AM »
*repeats what he said before*

It's been fairly apparent that it's an attempt to more or less wipe out the adult section.† After all, I don't think most of the other features are worth the submission price.

*hugs Lilac for giving us a new sandbox*

Wish I could say I donít agree with this stance, but sadly I cannot disprove it.

The site options overall are well-structured, because they allow a GM to admin and run a game easily and give them many options. Considering that he has to pay for his bandwidth across the board, I think all game sections should have a tiny charge applied; the guy could recover his expense quickly.

But taxing just adult games makes this reek of Jase being a self-righteous conservative without the balls to come right out and say his case.

Personally, if thatís what Jase really is, I hope to see RPOL dead and gone by yearís end. I can always move my game elsewhere and we donít need bible-thumping game site admins, it always leads to trouble in the end because they think their little book gives them the right to step on whoever the fuck they want.

Offline Lilac

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2005, 01:02:44 AM »
I think his prime concerns are a false sense of liability protection, and promoting the site's supposedly family-friendly nature.  Charging for all games would kill his membership, so he's doing what he thinks will solve his problems.  I don't agree, but, he's not listening to me.

Honestly, though, I'd rather not have this hostility here...  Perhaps I should make a rants section or something?

Offline Trieste

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Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2005, 01:45:28 AM »
I can always move my game elsewhere and we donít need bible-thumping game site admins, it always leads to trouble in the end because they think their little book gives them the right to step on whoever the fuck they want.

I'd like to point out that someone has left Maidens and Monsters before because of Christian-bashing, and while I don't agree with their spirituality, I still respect their right to have their beliefs without being discriminated against because of it. I'd also like to point out that one of the most tolerant people I know is a minister, and some of the most intolerant people I've met are so-called atheists or pagans. Just because someone is conservative does not mean it has anything to do with the Bible.

Honestly, though, I'd rather not have this hostility here...  Perhaps I should make a rants section or something?

When you get a group of people who've had to move the way we just have, followed by an announcement such as the one that's been made, you're going to get some animosity. Honestly, I'd rather have it out in the open than festering in PM... and frankly, it *is* off-topic, but it *does* concern a lot of people here... frustrated people are going to commiserate, and it's better than in the individual games. If this particular board isn't locked against guests, maybe we could make a private Members Discussion board that people could talk in? I get the feeling that you're worried about people just sort of wandering onto this... but I could be wrong.

Offline Hunter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2005, 02:19:20 AM »
Yes, I private member's board for general conversation is a good idea.

I've already ranted and raved all that I'm going to.  And my offer to help out around here if need be still stands.

Offline LilianTopic starter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2005, 03:05:16 AM »
Erotic.. sailor.. moon. Wow. I've had so many fantasies. I'm a terrible deviant, though, so they'd involve, like, demons.. and that one balloon girl and.. erm..


You know, it's been soo long since I've watched sailor moon. ^.^:

Offline Hunter

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2005, 03:08:58 AM »
*snirk*  And here people think I'm strange.   ;)  So what if I like anime girls in short/tight outfits.    ;D

shadai

  • Guest
Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2005, 03:11:05 AM »
I think people have misunderstood Jase's intents for RPOL... anyway it seems like you all are gaining many players and new forums from them going to subscription... that won't happen really for 2 months if it still happens then...

Anyway it's still crazy.


Shadai

Offline Hannibal

Re: Strange co-incidence
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2005, 02:06:29 PM »
I think Jase and his RPOL team have tried to solve two separate problems with one poorly thought out solution. On one hand he has problems with the costs of maintaining and improving his site (mostly his own time) and on the other he wants to protect himself from lawsuites arising from the adult games. On the money side there doesn't appear to be a well thought out plan for turning RPOL into a venture that pays for itself. I haven't seen any evidence of research into what the subscription fees should be or what features user will be willing to pay for. There seems to be a classic case of groupthink where no one in the decision making group is willing to question the assumptions the decision is based on. Before announcing that RPOL was implementing a subscription service there should have been marketing surveys as to what features users want and what they will pay for them. Then they could determine if it was feasable or not.

Then they have tacked the Adult section onto the subscription service to make it more difficult for underage users to access adult content. I think it will mostly solve that problem. Some will get through, but it will make it more difficult. He is quite within his rights to not permit certain topics on his website. He is like a publisher in that he has the right to choose whether to publish material or not. I don't think the making the Adult section a subsciber only will solve the problem of the type of material that appears. As another poster said, it will just move them from the Adult section to Mature and other games. Even if the material doesn't materialise in other games the admin team will have to be even more vigilant as they are now charging for a service. It becomes their responibility to make sure 'inappropriate' material doesn't appear in any section except the Adult.

Plus, will RPOL incur other costs as the Mods may expect to be paid. Why Jase didn't just pay a lawyer, ask him/her how to protect himself and then follow that advice to the letter is beyond me.

I wish him all the luck in the world, but do not hold much hopes for RPOL's future.

<Pontification mode off>