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Author Topic: A Choking in NY  (Read 3087 times)

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Offline Zakharra

Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2014, 03:21:06 PM »
Hard not to when all the the recent incidences involve white cops shooting black men and kids. should we, instead, play the gender card? cops hate dudes? not seeing a lot of white kids getting shot, or black cops doing the shooting. maybe not all are racially motivated, but it certainly suggest that it's an issue.

 A large part of the  problem with that is the news media is predisposed to play up white/black violence and likely slant it with the impression by the talking heads, that its racist. The 'if it bleeds, it leads' mentality, especially since much of the media and news journalists are activists in that they want to change the world rather than just report the news. Where I live, if someone is killed by police, race isn't an issue other than in passing. The focus though is on how the police handled/mishandled the situation rather than if it's a racial violence thing. I just think that far, far too many people are willing to throw down the racial card first upon hearing that someone who was arrested/hurt/killed was a minority and the police officer was Caucasian or looked Caucasian.  Too many people hear of a white police officer hurting/killing a black person and automatically think; 'That's racist' without looking at the facts of the case.

 Look at the incident in Florida several years ago. The neighborhood watch man who did the killing was Hispanic and I believe self identified as Hispanic, but the news media was hellbent on portraying him as white because it fit their viewpoint.  They wanted a white man killing a black man so that's how they portrayed it. His actual ethnicity was overshadowed because of their personal bias to fit a profile they wanted.

 All I'm asking is that people just step back and think about it before the race card is used.  Just because you (general you) think its racist, doesn't mean that it is racist.

 Now on the topic, do I think the police overreacted? Yes.  It sounds like they did. I haven't seen the video so I an only going off of what I've heard, but it sounds like their was somewhat of an overreaction in the particular use of force. But I'm not going to automatically slap down the racist card because of the skin color of the police and perpetrator are different. I'd like to hear the facts of the case first before I make any determined decision.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2014, 03:51:29 PM »
Hard not to when all the the recent incidences involve white cops shooting black men and kids.
...
not seeing a lot of white kids getting shot, or black cops doing the shooting. maybe not all are racially motivated, but it certainly suggest that it's an issue.

The mainstream media thrives because of this belief - the idea that the news on CNN and Fox represent the world as it is.  This couldn't be further from the truth.  To the contrary, these outlets select news that drives controversy and attracts viewership. 

Recently, an unarmed white man was killed by a black cop, yet the media was mum on this story.  I'm not at all suggesting that this should have been covered as a 'racially based' incident (because I honestly doubt it was) or that it should have received national attention.  However, it is a great example of how the mainstream media cherry picks their topics to elicit controversy and viewership - and to also develop an overriding 'thesis' in their news presentation. 

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2014, 04:37:21 PM »
How Anonymous Cops Online Are Reacting to the Death of Eric Garner


Quote
Fat fck perp who was anointed a Saint by all who knew him. Married, noticed how they put that in there, because 9 times out of 10 it's not the case. This video will gain a lot of traction and heads will roll. Pretty much every cop there will be modified.

As far as the grab around the neck, I would have done the same thing. That piece of sh!t was too fat and wide to grab anywhere else.
Seems it was conveniently edited as well. Maybe missing a few details of the mutts action?


Offline Cherri Tart

Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2014, 05:08:21 PM »
Not sure the rest of you grew up. I grew up in Oakland, CA. maybe you haven't had the same experiences as me, and that's fine and perfectly understandable, but the thing of it is, I've seen this stuff first hand since I was a kid. No, not all white cop kills black dude are racially motivated, but enough of them are that I have absolutely no probably 'playing the race card' when one does. be surprised at how often, as a kid, we'd get busted and I'd get a free pass while the black kids I was with didn't. only difference? yeah, I'm white. Sorry, but after a while, you start calling a horse a horse - hoping I didn't mangle that saying, but yeah, totally appropriate.

Offline SouvlakiSpaceStation

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Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2014, 05:10:59 PM »
Race makes no difference?  This "I don't see race!" mentality is part of the whole problem of racism in this country.  Race IS a factor, especially in cases like this.  If race didn't make a difference, we wouldn't have the KKK or needed a Civil Rights Movement (and still do!).  The factor that "Oh, he had a criminal past!" is even being considered in justifying his death just shows it even more.  So the guy, because he was obese and had a criminal past, deserved what he got?  Keep digging for reasons to make yourself feel better over your continued privilege.  How disgusting.

This makes me physically ill to see this type of mentality in trying to justify racism and murder.

Thank you.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2014, 05:31:05 PM »
The mainstream media thrives because of this belief - the idea that the news on CNN and Fox represent the world as it is.  This couldn't be further from the truth.  To the contrary, these outlets select news that drives controversy and attracts viewership. 

Recently, an unarmed white man was killed by a black cop, yet the media was mum on this story.  I'm not at all suggesting that this should have been covered as a 'racially based' incident (because I honestly doubt it was) or that it should have received national attention.  However, it is a great example of how the mainstream media cherry picks their topics to elicit controversy and viewership - and to also develop an overriding 'thesis' in their news presentation.

So, you point out one incident of a white guy being killed over how many incidents of black people being killed over the last year?  It is a racially based incident and race matters here.  So saying it is further from the truth is just trivializing a very large problem and while I will agree that the media and their sensationalist coverage of such events is equally troubling, it takes away from what is being raised when examining cases like the one this.

Why is it that some people (those in the majority who don't deal with things like racial profiling) are the first to start yelling "But WHITE people die are killed by cops too!" when this whole issue is about police brutalities towards people of color?  Yes, we get it.  White people get targeted by police brutality too.  But the statistics don't lie (please see my previous post for said statistics if you'd like the hard data) and police brutality and lethal force is more often used against people of color and minorities than whites.

I'm not dismissing those individuals that suffer at the hands of corrupt cops who happen to be white. It's just as horrible.  But, when it comes down to bringing that up to drown out the voices of those calling for justice over cases like Micheal Brown, it is just disgusting.

I'm getting really tired of people shouting over the voices that really matter here.  I've seen it happen in feminism issues, gender issues and race issues.  This "but think about the majority's problems" reasoning really is empty and just dismissive of the people that are getting targeted over and over again.  It's just like the thinking that goes into "reverse racism" and "men's rights activists" - let's highlight US and OUR problems so we can forget about THEM.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 05:34:29 PM by Silverfyre »

Offline Valthazar

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Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2014, 06:06:32 PM »
Whether or not this incident was racially motivated is a matter of subjective opinion, and one can likely make a valid argument either way with the facts currently available.  Stating with certainty that this incident was racially motivated is a questionable presupposition in this debate.  Police brutality against people of color is a legitimate issue in the United States, but basing an entire argument for this incident (where the assailant happened to be white, and the victim happened to be black) on this broader theme of race would appear to be a logical fallacy.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 06:08:17 PM by Valthazar »

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2014, 06:34:56 PM »
The incidents highlight the broader theme of racism and police brutality so it is hardly a logical fallacy. The same could be drawn from your argument of the media working on solely the principal of sensationalism as it is just as subjective based on your outline.

Instead of yelling about the "subjective nature" of the crimes, how about you acknowledge the bigger issues here that are proven to be racially motivated by the statistics alone?

Offline Cycle

Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2014, 08:51:06 PM »
Point 1:  the news networks like to put on segments to drive up their viewership.

Point 2:  people are upset with the justice system we have in the United States.

Point 1 does not eliminate, excuse, or invalidate Point 2.  Some people think.  Some people know better than to just blindly follow what a talking head spouts off on cable news.

Ten thousand people took to the streets in New York city alone.  I'd conservatively estimate five times that number have protested in over fifty cities across the nation. 

People are genuinely upset.  It's not a new story.  It's reality.  Those in charge need to stop talking and start listening.  Otherwise they'll never understand how to fix this situation.


Offline Apple of Eris

Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2014, 09:04:30 PM »
Is this racism? That seems to be the question a lot of people, who are generally but not always, not minorities seem to ask in these cases.

Taken alone as a single incident, well it's hard to say, though the officer in question seems to have had a history of racial bias.

However when you add this point to the multitude of other points including shooting deaths of unarmed blacks, increased sentences for minorities convicted of the same crimes as whites, the racial bias in our drug sentencing laws, the fact that 1 in 3 black males will at some point in their lives be subjected to our criminal justice system... and you have to be blind not to see a pattern emerge that paints a pretty clear system of a judicial system that needs to be fixed; and part of that system is how law enforcement officers deal with minorities.

I don't think anyone, outside a few extreme voices, that the officers involved are hood wearing members of the KKK. What people are saying is that these officers fell prey to their own racial biases in determining when and how much force should be used. And are protesting against a system that protected an officer rather than punishing him in an instance where many, if not most people, felt excessive force was used against an unarmed civilian.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: A Choking in NY
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2014, 07:35:40 AM »
Locked at OP's request.