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Author Topic: Ferguson v2.0  (Read 5549 times)

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Online Inkidu

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2014, 08:56:02 PM »
Perhaps its my own naivete about how the world works. Maybe we haven't really done a damn thing for the racial divides in this nation, maybe I just don't get how it works because the argument to me isn't a racial one, but a one of whether or not the shooting was justified, but I just don't think the cop got up today, put on his blues and pinned on his badge and said, "Today I'm gonna' kill me a black person."

I'd rather have my naivete. 

Offline fireflights

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2014, 09:04:13 PM »
One thing I have learned in my lifetime is, it is human nature to hate. You can try to disagree with me if you want, but look at everything through history. Fear and hate prompt just about everything to do with our world, most of the wars were about fear and hate, one group hated the other, which bred fear that they would come at them, and in turn went after them. It's the same through history, yes, there were other reasons as well, but hidden within their reasons were always fear and hate. We are a volatile race, all of us regardless of the color of our skin. we will be killing each other until the end of days and it's sad, it truly is. Because we don't have to be like this, but it's like we are wired to be this way. We can choose to go another route then the path we are on, but the choices have to come from inside all of us, and so many just aren't willing to change. So while no, they don't go out with the thought that they are going to kill anyone *black or white* they still will go out each day and that result will happen sadly. Cops are out there to protect us, but like the government, we are now left with wondering just who they are really in to protect, the people or themselves.

Offline Cherri Tart

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2014, 09:04:45 PM »
Perhaps its my own naivete about how the world works. Maybe we haven't really done a damn thing for the racial divides in this nation, maybe I just don't get how it works because the argument to me isn't a racial one, but a one of whether or not the shooting was justified, but I just don't think the cop got up today, put on his blues and pinned on his badge and said, "Today I'm gonna' kill me a black person."

I'd rather have my naivete.

nope, i agree, i don't think he did. what i am prepared to accept, however, is that his reaction to Michael Brown might have been intensified by his skin color. what i do know for certain is that a disproportionate number of lethal or even not lethal, yet still beyond the norm, are perpetrated by white cops against people of color.

Online Cassandra LeMay

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2014, 01:09:07 AM »
Perhaps its my own naivete about how the world works. Maybe we haven't really done a damn thing for the racial divides in this nation, maybe I just don't get how it works because the argument to me isn't a racial one, but a one of whether or not the shooting was justified, but I just don't think the cop got up today, put on his blues and pinned on his badge and said, "Today I'm gonna' kill me a black person."

I'd rather have my naivete.
That may not be what cops have on their minds, but they might not have the best attitude towards blacks either. CBS recently had an article that I found very interesting, pointing out that in St. Louis County there are many small communities that rely heavily on fines to bolster their budgets.

Imagine you are a cop who knows that if he doesn't ticket a lot of people the municipality might not have the money to pay him a salary. Add to that a predominantly black population and it might breed an attitude that treats these (often poor) people as cash cows. That's not a healthy attitude for a police officer to have, as it dehumanizes the people the police deals with on a daily basis.

Offline Caehlim

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2014, 01:43:45 AM »
but I just don't think the cop got up today, put on his blues and pinned on his badge and said, "Today I'm gonna' kill me a black person."

That wouldn't necessarily be required for the shooting to have had a racial component or to be symptomatic of a present environment of racial inequality and hostility within Ferguson, Missouri.

However, nor would it be entirely out of the question. Historically there have been people, even police officers, who have done exactly as you describe (although I doubt they used 'black person' in their internal monologue). Others have, while not having premeditated the crime all day, chosen with that exact motivation in mind to commit murder when the opportunity presented itself or when they encountered a member of a minority who did not display the attitude they wished.

Since these things are a possibility, I think you're right that it would be naive to simply assume that he did not. An investigation is required. Perhaps the grand jury was sufficient investigation, perhaps not. I'm really not equipped to know. However as a society we can't simply take on face value that all members of law enforcement are upstanding, honest or lawful individuals. Some are dangerous bigots or people who enjoy exerting power over others. (I feel I should also add that many aren't, and I have the utmost respect for legitimate police officers who do their duty to protect the community).

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2014, 08:41:25 AM »
That may not be what cops have on their minds, but they might not have the best attitude towards blacks either. CBS recently had an article that I found very interesting, pointing out that in St. Louis County there are many small communities that rely heavily on fines to bolster their budgets.

Imagine you are a cop who knows that if he doesn't ticket a lot of people the municipality might not have the money to pay him a salary. Add to that a predominantly black population and it might breed an attitude that treats these (often poor) people as cash cows. That's not a healthy attitude for a police officer to have, as it dehumanizes the people the police deals with on a daily basis.
I linked a couple things upthread far worse than that: Current research indicates that even people who are actively trying not to be racist tend to think unarmed black people are carrying weapons more often than whites, and white people faced with split-second shoot/don't shoot decisions are more likely to shoot black people. So yes, it's entirely possible for someone to go to work planning to be fair and equitable, and still be racist when the time comes to decide to shoot.

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2014, 09:27:28 AM »
Perhaps its my own naivete about how the world works. Maybe we haven't really done a damn thing for the racial divides in this nation, maybe I just don't get how it works because the argument to me isn't a racial one, but a one of whether or not the shooting was justified, but I just don't think the cop got up today, put on his blues and pinned on his badge and said, "Today I'm gonna' kill me a black person."

I'd rather have my naivete.

Ignoring the issue won't make the problem go away. And imo just as bad as those saying, he deserved to DIE.
Saying you rather keep your naivete, is basically saying "Im scared, therefore I don't care what happens to other people.Id rather keep my rosy veiw of the world, rather than try to understand "

He punched a poor, defenseless, cop a few times, so that monster, thug, Negro needed to to get shot 6 times and fired at 12 times. His body was found 100 feet away from the initial scuffle? Never mind that! He reached for the gun, but he didnt get it, he got shot in the hand and ran away, and then he turned to the terrified officer, who for some reason got out of the safety of his car, and charged him! He Deserved it all!!!

My question is when a gun is drawn what black person charges at the person, what would any person in their right minds charge toward a loaded gun. If a gun is drawn immediate reaction is to put your hands up. We were groomed to do this, right? Peoples first reaction to pain is get away from the thing that caused you pain. So whether he punched the cop and scuffled for his gun, when he got shot, Brown most likely took off, why would he charge at someone who already shot him? Its possible, but is it probable, and logical. Black people already joke about how they run first and ask questions later.

Another question is, If Darren Wilson feared for his life, said that Mike Bown was huge compared to him, and that he looked like a devil, Why did he get out of the car to continue to engage a man he was terrified of. Especially if the threat was going away from you. He feared for his life? So, rather than rolling up the window ,following in his, SUV and waiting for back up; He gets out of his SUV, and calls to the guy who he claimed almost killed him.

 Was the arrest more important than his own life. I though a cops objective was to get home safe. But he basically put his own life in jepordy if Mike was such a threat to him. That or he lied aboutbe so afraid  and was pissed that this guy reached in his car and punched him. He shot and when Brown punched him he got even more mad that "this asshole is getting away".

 Or he may have been scared when he got punched because "omg some one punched me", and he shot. But once he left the one thing that could protect him, ,his SUV,and rengaged a retreating figure, it's no longer self-defence.

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2014, 09:37:17 AM »
Ignoring the issue won't make the problem go away. And imo just as bad as those saying, he deserved to DIE.
Saying you rather keep your naivete, is basically saying "Im scared, therefore I don't care what happens to other people.Id rather keep my rosy veiw of the world, rather than try to understand "
Please don't insult me, and don't ascribe agency to what I think or feel without me having actually voiced. I was trying to illustrate that even if this has become a racial issue, I doubt, sincerely that it started out that way. He might have been pissed that someone punched him and wanted to kill him, but to say he did it just because Brown was black is more the assumption of racism than the actual fact.

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2014, 10:48:50 AM »
You dont have to directly say something for a point to be made. You saying and I quote "I rather have my naivete" after saying "Perhaps its my own naivete about how the world works." Kind of implies that you'd rather be ignorant to the situation. Mean to word it that way, but thats how it reads. And im sure Darren Wilson didn't have an agenda on/itching to kill black people, but then again this isnt entirely about Darren Nor Mike.

 It may have started out as, people were angry that Mick was left 4hrs in the sun. Or that NOTHING was done until the people of Ferguson got pissed that Nothing was being done. Hell the family didnt even get an apology nor did city officials come to speak with them even after all this mess. If Ferguson citizens didnt get fed up over the repeated mistreatment by their cops they whould have protested, and Mike would have swept under the rug, and Darren would still be working  for Ferguson (he woukd have ben a million dollars poorer but thats not the point) yeah they gathered evidence and took statement, but unfortunately it would have been put in a box and shelved

No Darren Wilson didn't deside to go out find the nearest black person to shoot, but you cant tell me that Mike  being black didn't help Darren make his desision alot quicker.

You cant tell me that out of all the cases ive seen white people more often than not will be killed if they commit a crime or is acting suspicious. You can not tell me that  Mike Borwn, Eric Garner, Tymar Rice, and John Crawford had any chance with the police. That it was their own fault for being shot or choked to death by police

no one is saying that Darren Wilson killed Mike Brown because hes black; they are sayig Darren wilson was allowed to keep his job and stay anonymous for weeks, because Mike was a black man. Darren encountered two Jaywalkers and one ends up dead shot at twelve times hit 6. And Yet he still hasnt been at the very least had a trial over the gross neglect of his own police training, if he even had any.

Im not insulting you, but the fact that you would rather continue to be naive about legitimate issues happeing now, is insulting.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2014, 10:58:00 AM »
He punched a poor, defenseless, cop a few times, so that monster, thug, Negro needed to to get shot 6 times and fired at 12 times. His body was found 100 feet away from the initial scuffle? Never mind that! He reached for the gun, but he didnt get it, he got shot in the hand and ran away, and then he turned to the terrified officer, who for some reason got out of the safety of his car, and charged him! He Deserved it all!!!

*twitches*

That attitude right there? It really needs to go. Why? Because let me tell you something - cops put their lives on the line every single time they put their blues on and go to work. "Punched a poor, defenseless cop"? He went for the cops GUN and that implies Michael had every intention of using it on the cop.

Disagree with me if you want but I would have shot the thug myself!

There's a song - not sure if you've heard it. "I fought the law and the law won". That applies here. Michael thought he was a big bad ass, thought he could attack a cop IN HIS CAR, try to take his gun, told the cop he was too much a pussy to shoot him. Guess what? Wilson wasn't too much of a pussy after all.

If you are going to be the asinine idiot that attacks a cop in his car and then charge the cop after he's already shot you ONCE, then you are going to end up dead. Period. And, quite frankly, I think that is where such a thug needs to be. He was not the gentle giant the media presents. He was a bully, he was a criminal and he did something utterly stupid that cost him his life. Do I think the color of his skin came into it?

Nope.

Next, read the damn witness reports. Your opinion on what someone's first reaction doesn't matter here. Witnesses - many of whom are black - state that Michael Brown was the aggressor AND that he did charge the cop. This whole "hands up, don't shoot" shit pisses me off because it has already been proven to be a lie and yet no one will let it fucking go. Michael Brown was not, I repeat this again, was NOT executed by the police.

Wilson did what he was trained to do. Follow the perpetrator. He did call for backup, however, cops are trained to follow suspects/perpetrators. They are also trained to stop criminals - which, at that point, Michael Brown was a criminal. It is against the law to attack a police officer - just saying. Wilson had a duty to get out of that car and try to arrest him. Was it his fault Michael Brown thought he could intimidate him and get away with a crime? No. It was Michael Brown's idiocy that got him killed.

Who in their fucking right mind thinks "if I charge the cop they won't shoot me, they'll run?" Really? I mean, really?! Guess he learned the lesson that his parents (who apparently did not have much to do with his child rearing) failed to teach him the hard way.

I have stated this before - I have grown up in a family chock full of law enforcement.  I hear the stories from their shifts. I know the fear that I'll get a call that someone in my family has been killed while on the job because idjits like Michael Brown have some idea in their head that they can attack the cops. A cop has a split second to make a decision when they are on duty - they cannot hesitate. If they, for any reason, feel that someone is a threat to their safety, they have to act upon it. Not question whether it is a rational fear or whether they should hide in their vehicle.

It disgusts me to see so many arm chair critics blasting what they know nothing about. You think you know better? Go to the police academy, get trained by the professionals then go out on the streets and learn what it is like to have to make a life or death decision in the blink of an eye. Then come back and talk to me. Your tune will change, guarantee you that.

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2014, 12:21:44 PM »
*twitches*

That attitude right there? It really needs to go. Why? Because let me tell you something - cops put their lives on the line every single time they put their blues on and go to work. "Punched a poor, defenseless cop"? He went for the cops GUN and that implies Michael had every intention of using it on the cop.

Disagree with me if you want but I would have shot the thug myself!

There's a song - not sure if you've heard it. "I fought the law and the law won". That applies here. Michael thought he was a big bad ass, thought he could attack a cop IN HIS CAR, try to take his gun, told the cop he was too much a pussy to shoot him. Guess what? Wilson wasn't too much of a pussy after all.

If you are going to be the asinine idiot that attacks a cop in his car and then charge the cop after he's already shot you ONCE, then you are going to end up dead. Period. And, quite frankly, I think that is where such a thug needs to be. He was not the gentle giant the media presents. He was a bully, he was a criminal and he did something utterly stupid that cost him his life. Do I think the color of his skin came into it?

Nope.

Next, read the damn witness reports. Your opinion on what someone's first reaction doesn't matter here. Witnesses - many of whom are black - state that Michael Brown was the aggressor AND that he did charge the cop. This whole "hands up, don't shoot" shit pisses me off because it has already been proven to be a lie and yet no one will let it fucking go. Michael Brown was not, I repeat this again, was NOT executed by the police.

Wilson did what he was trained to do. Follow the perpetrator. He did call for backup, however, cops are trained to follow suspects/perpetrators. They are also trained to stop criminals - which, at that point, Michael Brown was a criminal. It is against the law to attack a police officer - just saying. Wilson had a duty to get out of that car and try to arrest him. Was it his fault Michael Brown thought he could intimidate him and get away with a crime? No. It was Michael Brown's idiocy that got him killed.

Who in their fucking right mind thinks "if I charge the cop they won't shoot me, they'll run?" Really? I mean, really?! Guess he learned the lesson that his parents (who apparently did not have much to do with his child rearing) failed to teach him the hard way.

I have stated this before - I have grown up in a family chock full of law enforcement.  I hear the stories from their shifts. I know the fear that I'll get a call that someone in my family has been killed while on the job because idjits like Michael Brown have some idea in their head that they can attack the cops. A cop has a split second to make a decision when they are on duty - they cannot hesitate. If they, for any reason, feel that someone is a threat to their safety, they have to act upon it. Not question whether it is a rational fear or whether they should hide in their vehicle.

It disgusts me to see so many arm chair critics blasting what they know nothing about. You think you know better? Go to the police academy, get trained by the professionals then go out on the streets and learn what it is like to have to make a life or death decision in the blink of an eye. Then come back and talk to me. Your tune will change, guarantee you that.



Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Looks to me as if your an amchair critic yourself. But unlike me you can't go to an Academy to be black. Im not the one spoutting off stuff like it was PROVEN FACT. Many witness say that he DID Have his hands up 15 or 16 of them. Many also said that wilson was firing wilst he was running. Some said he didnt and some said they didnt know the MAJORITY, Said that he did.  That he turned and put his hands up. For some reason only 7 people including Wilson Brown said that he was charging at him [out of the 27 or 28 witnesses.] One even said that there was a scuffle in the car, daren was trying to pull on Mike and that Mike was trying to push away, a shot was heard and Mike ran. Why in gods name would he turn around and come running back to the man who already shot you once. Like i said before the threat was running away. A split second desision is not needed when this supposed threat is 35 to a 100 feet away.  And the fact that you spout the same things that all the other Darren Wilson supporters say show just how much Im glad your not a cop. The fact that you can with good conscious say that Mike was THUG CRIMINAL, and that even though he was 35 feet away from you .you would still shoot at him 12 times. You would continue to shoot even if he was going down to the ground.  If Brown was a hundred feet from the car and was shot 35 feet from Wilson, why would Wilson go after a Man he claimed almost killed him for 65 feet . And if he was shot 35 feet away from wilson and he charged him like you said, dont you think that he would have been farther than 35 feet. Not the split second you said now is it.


All im doing is stating speculation i dont know what actually happened. then again you were there so you know exactly what happened, am i right? 

And there is no need to be rude, I've never insuted a person on this thread or Darren for that matter as much you have done me, and Mike as well as his family.Hell i even gave Darren the benefit of the doubt. I didt go out cold cocked as scream "Darren Wilson, that pig shot that boy in cold blood because he was black!" So why do you feel the need to. Show some restraint and then maybe we can have a legitimate conversation.

I dont know what happened i wasn't there, all I can do is read the information and speculate what could have happened. Maybe you should do the same and stop trying to say you know exactly what happened, because no one but Wilson,Brown and only few other actually know.

You say my attitude is the one that needs to go ,before being extremely, rude patronizing, and all around nastyhow does that work? Before you get in your feelings again how about you read some of #alivewhileblack but the cops are heros right. Dont get me wrong i have respect for cops but im not going to bend over and let more and more of them screw me and other people with out saying somethig.




« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 12:37:09 PM by DiscoveringEzra »

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2014, 12:27:26 PM »
Do you know what this reminds me of?  This adorable image of a kitten holding a cupcake:



Look at his little eyes?  Have you got a present for me, Mr Snufflekins?  Yes you have.

Look at the picture of the kitten holding a cupcake everyone.  LOOK AT IT

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2014, 12:38:11 PM »
Do you know what this reminds me of?  This adorable image of a kitten holding a cupcake:



Look at his little eyes?  Have you got a present for me, Mr Snufflekins?  Yes you have.

Look at the picture of the kitten holding a cupcake everyone.  LOOK AT IT


Lol thank you. I cant look away from its cuteness.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2014, 01:12:43 PM »


Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Looks to me as if your an amchair critic yourself. But unlike me you can't go to an Academy to be black. Im not the one spoutting off stuff like it was PROVEN FACT. Many witness say that he DID Have his hands up 15 or 16 of them. Many also said that wilson was firing wilst he was running. Some said he didnt and some said they didnt know the MAJORITY, Said that he did.  That he turned and put his hands up. For some reason only 7 people including Wilson Brown said that he was charging at him [out of the 27 or 28 witnesses.] One even said that there was a scuffle in the car, daren was trying to pull on Mike and that Mike was trying to push away, a shot was heard and Mike ran. Why in gods name would he turn around and come running back to the man who already shot you once. Like i said before the threat was running away. A split second desision is not needed when this supposed threat is 35 to a 100 feet away.  And the fact that you spout the same things that all the other Darren Wilson supporters say show just how much Im glad your not a cop. The fact that you can with good conscious say that Mike was THUG CRIMINAL, and that even though he was 35 feet away from you .you would still shoot at him 12 times. You would continue to shoot even if he was going down to the ground.  If Brown was a hundred feet from the car and was shot 35 feet from Wilson, why would Wilson go after a Man he claimed almost killed him for 65 feet . And if he was shot 35 feet away from wilson and he charged him like you said, dont you think that he would have been farther than 35 feet. Not the split second you said now is it.


All im doing is stating speculation i dont know what actually happened. then again you were there so you know exactly what happened, am i right? 

And there is no need to be rude, I've never insuted a person on this thread or Darren for that matter as much you have done me, and Mike as well as his family.Hell i even gave Darren the benefit of the doubt. I didt go out cold cocked as scream "Darren Wilson, that pig shot that boy in cold blood because he was black!" So why do you feel the need to. Show some restraint and then maybe we can have a legitimate conversation.

I dont know what happened i wasn't there, all I can do is read the information and speculate what could have happened. Maybe you should do the same and stop trying to say you know exactly what happened, because no one but Wilson,Brown and only few other actually know.

You say my attitude is the one that needs to go ,before being extremely, rude patronizing, and all around nastyhow does that work? Before you get in your feelings again how about you read some of #alivewhileblack but the cops are heros right. Dont get me wrong i have respect for cops but im not going to bend over and let more and more of them screw me and other people with out saying somethig.

Again, the witness reports state that Brown was the aggressor. The crime scene reports state that Wilson was firing while backing up, which supports the statements that he charged Wilson. The trajectory of the bullets show that the fatal shot came from Brown being in a position with his head lowered, as if he was in a charging position.

The evidence - the things that cannot lie, the facts - all support Wilson’s side of the story. Sorry, but when the facts support the guy you hate, you either accept the fact that the martyr everyone is trying to hold up is in the wrong or you continue to refuse to accept the truth.

Michael Brown is not the martyr so many want him to be. He is not a good choice for poster boy on this issue. I have no sympathy for him - he attacked a cop, he paid the ultimate price for the stupidity. I even have a hard time having sympathy for his family when they are trying to incite riots (stepfather screaming to burn this bitch down anyone?), the parents being investigated for beating up Brown’s grandmother (the woman who raised him) because she was selling shirts with Michael’s name on them.

Michael’s own friend testified that, not only had Michael just robbed a store, but he was the aggressor and that there was never a “hands up, don’t shoot” position.

I will be flat honest. I will almost always take the side of the police officer. I have had the advantage of hearing the sides of the cops thanks to being raised with them. Are there bad cops? Of course. Are some of them racist? Sure. Does that mean all cops are bad? No. And what I said still applies. A cop has a split second to make a decision - sometimes the choice made is wrong. Sometimes it is right. Sometimes it is impossible to know.

And before you try to imply I am racist, you might want to get to know me. Just saying.

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2014, 02:49:20 PM »
Again, the witness reports state that Brown was the aggressor. The crime scene reports state that Wilson was firing while backing up, which supports the statements that he charged Wilson. The trajectory of the bullets show that the fatal shot came from Brown being in a position with his head lowered, as if he was in a charging position.

The evidence - the things that cannot lie, the facts - all support Wilson’s side of the story. Sorry, but when the facts support the guy you hate, you either accept the fact that the martyr everyone is trying to hold up is in the wrong or you continue to refuse to accept the truth.

Michael Brown is not the martyr so many want him to be. He is not a good choice for poster boy on this issue. I have no sympathy for him - he attacked a cop, he paid the ultimate price for the stupidity. I even have a hard time having sympathy for his family when they are trying to incite riots (stepfather screaming to burn this bitch down anyone?), the parents being investigated for beating up Brown’s grandmother (the woman who raised him) because she was selling shirts with Michael’s name on them.

Michael’s own friend testified that, not only had Michael just robbed a store, but he was the aggressor and that there was never a “hands up, don’t shoot” position.

I will be flat honest. I will almost always take the side of the police officer. I have had the advantage of hearing the sides of the cops thanks to being raised with them. Are there bad cops? Of course. Are some of them racist? Sure. Does that mean all cops are bad? No. And what I said still applies. A cop has a split second to make a decision - sometimes the choice made is wrong. Sometimes it is right. Sometimes it is impossible to know.

And before you try to imply I am racist, you might want to get to know me. Just saying.

Who charges with their head down? You usually are looking the person your running toward.  So if he was shot in the top of the head, while he is charging, as you said, he would have  to be a very short man. Michael Brown was 6'4 how does a bullet getting the top of his head if he was running to wards the cop bum rushing him as they say. 

Im not accusing you of being racist. Merciless, hateful, and grossliy privileged, yes. A mean woman who doesn't try to see it from both sides . Whos willing to say "That a man deserves to be shot and left in the street for over 4 hrs, because he stole some cigars. He deserved to be  called a devil, thug, disgusting animal ,because he stole cigars. He deserved to be shot at 12 times after running away 100 ft because he put a red mark on the police officers cheek. Racist I dont know you to say that but someone I'm glad I dont know. Yes. People get off for way more than that. Ethan Couch anyone. And people who are more viscious get to live so they can later marry while in prison, like Charles Manson? Disgusting people get to live long enough to listen to the evidence brought against them and serve their sentence like Ted fucking Bundy, and others can be part of terroristic acts yet some how still live to face trial like Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. But a guy who pushed a clerk jaywalked and punched a cop ( im not going to add reaching for a gun cause noone but Darren Wilson knows that for sure, No lets keep it there have been situations where the person did clearly reach for the officers gun, yet they still were able to come out of it alive,) deserved to never be able to face a trial.



And an independent Forensic Pathologist(Dr. Cyril Wecht)  used the evidence - the things that cannot lie, the facts - to determine him having his hands up, and falling when he was shot in the top of the head.

Quote
Dr. Wecht: I don't like to be dogmatic, but there is only one way this scenario plays out when you look at the bullet wounds.  There are two wounds, one in the forearm entering dorsally and exiting in the front and the other in the upper arm entering in the front and exiting in the back. Both had an upward trajectory. Michael Brown was 6' 5", Officer Wilson is 6'.
The only way that you have an upward trajectory is with the arm like this [Holds his hand up to shoulder height, palm facing forward] and the shots fired. And you have two shots that strike Michael Brown in the chest, and they both have a downward trajectory. How do you get that with a 6'5" guy being shot by a 6' guy?  And then you have two wounds in the head that a parallel to the ground.  When you put the body on the table, their perpendicular.

The only way you can get that is that his body is continuing to fall. The scenario is that Michael Brown was shot first in the arm, then as he is beginning to fall he is shot in the chest, and as he continues to fall he shot in the head. And he falls prone. He's 30-35' away.

What happened at the car is significant mostly because, and no one talks about this, for what was Officer Darren Wilson's attitude?  Was he teed off? "This kid has just struggled with me with my gun" and the kid is now 30-35' away. He's unarmed, he's in short pants and a t-shirt.  Where is this imminent threat? If he believes that this kid is a threat to his life then how in the world can he be out there as a police officer, dealing with people that have weapons, dealing with people that are really berzerk and people that really pose a serious threat? 

No, this is [an] absurd scenario as far as I'm concerned in terms of Wilson's defense.

_______________

Dr. Wecht: It was premature, as I stated, to proclaim that all the shots came from the front because, as I stated, the arm can move in different directions.
...

With the shot coming downward, entering the eye and exiting the jaw, re-entering in the right clavical, that clearly is up-downward, so you have somebody who is falling. If you want to conjecture that he was charging like a mad bull toward an officer with a gun, I find that unlikely, most likely he was already toppling when that shot was fired - moving in a downward trajectory.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2014, 02:53:36 PM »
That's enough out of both of you. If you think a post has violated E's rules, hit the "report to moderator" link. You don't get to squabble with each other in the thread.

Don't do it again.

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2014, 08:00:17 PM »
All I'm seeing is that witness reports say this and that...without any evidence/links given in the argument.

I would give my two cents, but someone will accuse me of being racist...because from what i'm seeing...black people can't express their concerns or how they're being treated without being called racist.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #92 on: December 05, 2014, 10:16:51 AM »
Do you know what this reminds me of?  This adorable image of a kitten holding a cupcake:



Look at his little eyes?  Have you got a present for me, Mr Snufflekins?  Yes you have.

Look at the picture of the kitten holding a cupcake everyone.  LOOK AT IT
Your association needs to be looked at *teases*

Offline Kythia

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2014, 11:28:06 AM »
Your association needs to be looked at *teases*

I have no idea what that means.

Offline Knightshadow

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2014, 12:56:51 PM »
Iniquitous Opheliac and DiscoveringEzra,

Unfortunately, I find both your arguments have merit, minus the name-calling. Both of you make valid points from your perspective and your correlations (again from YOUR perspectives) are sound and understandable.  Neither of you will change the other's mind, so we are at an impasse.

Suffice it to say, if we disagree on the application of the law, then we should consider re-writing the law to accommodate the changing times.

Offline DiscoveringEzra

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2014, 05:04:12 PM »
Iniquitous Opheliac and DiscoveringEzra,

Unfortunately, I find both your arguments have merit, minus the name-calling. Both of you make valid points from your perspective and your correlations (again from YOUR perspectives) are sound and understandable.  Neither of you will change the other's mind, so we are at an impasse.

Suffice it to say, if we disagree on the application of the law, then we should consider re-writing the law to accommodate the changing times.


Yes, I didnt mean to name call, but the harsh answer I received got me a bit upset. I'm not really trying to change minds, not that it wouldnt be welcome.  Im just trying to bring pure speculation from what I've seen, read , experienced  (not about the case) and heard. What I got from Darrens own accounts "I felt like a child holding on to Hulk Hogan"-Darren Wilson. Is the he couldnt effectively defend himself without a gun, thats, why I said what I said. I was not speaking of any other officer in this thread. Ididnt generalize either. Like I said I respect cops, but lately the respect is dwindling. But i guess that neother here nor there. (Not trying to be mean or anything)

Trying  to Justify the fact that a man is dead for a crime that doesn't equate Death upsets me.  Noone would do it if Darren was the one who was killed. Mike would still be the demon in the issue.

The fact that coverage is disproportionate as well is putting gasoline on an explosion. When the media treats white suspects and killers better than black victims, and no one bats an eye lash, then its a problem. A very big problem, but its OK they are just thugs and criminals, right?

If someone was speaking to you politely as Wilson said he did to Brown. Then why such the violent reaction. Im guessing that Brown would be mildly annoyed or frightened as why he was being hailed by the police "Did they aready know what i did?" "Lets get the fuck out of here." My brother said that if he saw the police he would run, getting away is first priority, cause you dont know what they'll do. Maybe he(Brown) would he would have ran immidately. But if Wilson was as harsh as the friend said, then yeah I could see Brown getting pissed and saying "Fuck you!" Resulting in both parties getting mad. Lets not forget both were and are still human. I still dont think its plausible that bown would have just attacked Wilson for nothing, and then continue to attack after he was shot, and had successfully gotten away.  Him turning back around could have been the other shots going towards him. He didn't want to get shot ( noone wants to get shot ), so maybe he figured if he gave up then he would not get hit and just have to  bail out later. Hes a big guy, he wouldn't be able to run too fast. Who knows. 

Offline Apple of Eris

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2014, 12:30:30 PM »
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/ferguson-marchers-met-with-gunfire-racial-slurs-fried-chicken-and-a-melon/

This here. Unarmed protestors marching from Ferguson to Jefferson City are met with some rather vile and disgusting racist attacks in at least two small towns along the way. But lets all pretend that America is a post racial society and that racism doesn't exist anymore and that certainly no police officer could use excessive force simply because of the color of a person's skin.

I am so disgusted and angry right now...

Offline Cherri Tart

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2014, 02:37:42 PM »
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/ferguson-marchers-met-with-gunfire-racial-slurs-fried-chicken-and-a-melon/

This here. Unarmed protestors marching from Ferguson to Jefferson City are met with some rather vile and disgusting racist attacks in at least two small towns along the way. But lets all pretend that America is a post racial society and that racism doesn't exist anymore and that certainly no police officer could use excessive force simply because of the color of a person's skin.

I am so disgusted and angry right now...

Then don't read this article...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/i-hate-nggers-that-is-all-5-ohio-deputies-probed-for-years-of-racist-text-messages/#.VIDKvY7HuxN.facebook

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Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2014, 09:15:54 PM »
Has anyone seen this yet?

KU Journalism student shreds case against Mike Brown

I'ma just copy and paste it in here. I pasted in the links too.

Shelby Lawson is a student at the University of Kansas, majoring in Journalism and Women, Gender and Sexuality Studies. Lawson posted the following to her Facebook page:
“Alright y’all. I’d like to clear a few things up. This is a general address to the long list of misconceptions and inconsistencies and abuses of power that exist surrounding the killing of Mike Brown. I have researched these points and provided sources in case you wish to do some reading of your own.
-The most common misconception I’m hearing is that Mike Brown was significantly larger than Officer Wilson. This is incorrect. On page 198 of the official grand jury transcript, you can see that Officer Wilson testifies he is 6 ft 4 and weighs 210 lbs, the same size as Mike Brown.
(source)
-Mike Brown was NOT stopped because he was a suspect in crime. He and his friend Dorian Johnson were stopped for jaywalking, as Darren Wilson testifies to on page 208 of his grand jury testimony.
-Mike Brown WAS fleeing from Officer Wilson when he was fatally shot. Wilson confirms this on page 281 of his grand jury testimony.
-Officer Wilson broke police self-defense protocol, which teaches to disarm and incapacitate rather than kill and teaches officers to go for body shots. Officer Wilson shot Mike Brown twice in the head, after he shot him four times in his arm and torso.
(source)
-Ferguson Police ignored protocol and refused to interview or take a statement from the eyewitness present from Officer Wilson’s initial contact with Mike Brown until his death.
(source)
-The forensic examiner broke protocol by failing to take crime scene photos. On page 95 of the grand jury transcript, she claims that this was because her camera had died, however, she goes on to describe how she immediately followed Wilson to the hospital in order to photograph his “injuries.”
-Forensic investigators broke protocol by failing to test Officer Wilson’s gun for fingerprints, since Wilson claims that Brown grabbed his gun and caused it to misfire. Page 39, grand jury transcript.
-Darren Wilson was then allowed to break protocol by washing the blood off of himself before it could be photographed, making it impossible to analyze blood spatter patterns and determine what position Mike Brown was in when Wilson first shot him. Wilson recounts this on page 10 of his official police interview.
(source)
-While Officer Wilson’s story of what happened that day has changed at least three times, six separate eyewitnesses, four of whom have never met each other, all have identical accounts of what happened. They were never interviewed by police.
(source)
-These eyewitnesses all agree that Darren Wilson was the aggressor and that Mike Brown was shot while surrendering, with his hands in the air and that his last words were “I don’t have a gun. Stop shooting.”
-This is backed up by Mike Brown’s autopsy, which suggests that Mike Brown would have had to be in the hands-up position for the bullets to enter his hand and arm the way they did.
(source)
-Furthermore, in a press conference, the coroner who performed Mike Brown’s autopsy relays that there was no trace of gun shot residue anywhere on his body, proving that Wilson’s claim that Mike Brown grabbed his gun, causing it to misfire, is impossible and untrue.
(source)
-Ferguson Police lied about the distance Mike Brown was from Officer Wilson when he was killed. They reported it was 35 ft. but it was in fact 148 ft.
(source)
-Owner of Ferguson Market states that he did not call police to report a theft of cigars, that the theft had nothing to do with Mike Brown, and that the man on the security footage is not Mike Brown.
(source)
-The prosecuting attorney for the case against Darren Wilson has helped raise $600,000 in donations for Darren Wilson, creating a clear conflict of interest.
(source)
-The police department that Officer Wilson worked for prior to coming to Ferguson was disbanded after multiple instances of racial profiling.”
(source)

Offline Caehlim

Re: Ferguson v2.0
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2014, 09:37:31 PM »
While I don't disagree overall, just one point I feel should be clarified.

-Officer Wilson broke police self-defense protocol, which teaches to disarm and incapacitate rather than kill and teaches officers to go for body shots. Officer Wilson shot Mike Brown twice in the head, after he shot him four times in his arm and torso.

Police are trained to aim for the body to increase lethality, not decrease it. (I posted a source for this earlier in this thread). Firearms are only intended to be used by police in order to provide lethal force. They are told not to aim for head shots because they're unlikely to hit with them, not out of any intention to keep the person alive.

If the range was 148 feet as she mentions elsewhere in her report, then chances are that bullets striking the head were shots aimed at the chest which missed rather than deliberately aimed and precise shots. Particularly if he fired multiple shots in rapid succession as recoil tends to pull your aim upwards.