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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 137661 times)

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Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #950 on: June 14, 2015, 03:26:34 PM »
Ohhhh yeah she is a very interesting subject indeed. I won't spoil it but if anyone is curious...look her up. Your gonna be in for a few surprises.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #951 on: June 14, 2015, 03:36:30 PM »
Marvel and Netflix confirmed months ago that they are working on a Punisher show.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #952 on: June 14, 2015, 03:40:00 PM »
She was trained by them, and after Bullseye killed her The Hand resurrected her. Then later on, Daredevil became a Hand Warlord reigning over territory in New York. It will be interesting seeing who they cast and what characters they bring in. I wonder if they will also bring in Typhoid Mary as well. She was another big Daredevil antagonist.

Agreed, the more strong females they include, the better.

And this will definitely be the sort of thing that will force Matt to confront the ultimate moral dilemma-these types of opponents are not the sort that can be dealt with the same way as Fisk.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
He did basically kill Nobu anyway (if only because Nobu refused to save his own ass by jumping into the water to put out the fire) so he can't say there's no blood on his hands already. That one guy he defended in court on Fisk's retainer from the bowling alley incident and forced Fisk's name out of who killed himself, that was pretty much an execution for all intents and purposes since the result would have been his death due to Daredevil's direct actions.
I think the Punisher would be a good way for Matt to ground himself since it will be like, "Okay, I get that this has to be done at some times but I'm not like him, I'm not an indiscriminate killing machine and I take no pleasure in it when I'm forced to take a life." That way if he sees himself crossing the line, he won't continue his descent like Castle.

Here's my big question though: Does Netflix really pull in enough $ to pay for all the stuff they stream AND all the original programming they produce? My friend and I couldn't seem to figure out how that worked if they don't make advertising revenue since they're not inundated by ads like youtube. But there's basically 5 big-name shows that they're working on with Marvel (how is the budget being shared, not counting all of Netflix's own stuff?) if Punisher is slated to become its own thing (probably a very good chance of him being among the Defenders when that rolls around, and although that is supposed to be its own show, it's only 4 episodes so it's more like a long movie) so if all that does is increase subscriptions by a few % is that really enough for them to keep going and producing these moderately special-effects laden shows?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 03:43:10 PM by Mathim »

Offline DominantPoet

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #953 on: June 14, 2015, 03:44:23 PM »
"Does Netflix really pull in enough $ to pay for all the stuff they stream AND all the original programming they produce?"

Oh hell yes. Netflix is worldwide, cheaper than cable by a long shot, and continues to grow in popularity.

Look at it this way - if they have even half the US subscribing in a single month, that's roughly 160 million x 8 dollars. That's a crap ton of money for a company whose main product is to stream programs, from one country of the entire world. And they've had this going for quite some time before they started to produce their own content and buy other content as well.

Their revenue in FY 2014 was 5.5 billion.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #954 on: June 14, 2015, 04:09:15 PM »
Plus their only real competitors are other streaming services and Redbox. Netflix and Redbox killed video rental stores, you'll be lucky to see even one or two these days.

Most people who use Netflix will probably have one or two others like Hulu to watch more content the other doesn't offer. So with cable's quality degrading into more and more reality TV shows with the exception of some like the DC lineup its a grand idea to actually get a streaming service.

Which can offer more gore, sex, and other stuff than cable can since it isn't restricted like Cable is with FCC regulations.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #955 on: June 14, 2015, 05:02:58 PM »
Huh. All I ever hear is people bitching about Netflix so I assumed it wasn't that popular. But I guess everyone who bitches about it is still a paying subscriber. But if it weren't for Daredevil I wouldn't have bothered, that's for sure. Still, HBO should have tried to get in on that Marvel TV action.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 05:09:22 PM by Mathim »

Offline deadmanshand

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #956 on: June 14, 2015, 05:10:02 PM »
59 million subscribers with an estimated 7 million more by the end of the year.

Offline DominantPoet

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #957 on: June 14, 2015, 06:14:41 PM »
59 million subscribers with an estimated 7 million more by the end of the year.

Which will almost certainly continue to grow more and more once their Netflix movies and what not as well start to come out.

Bit more on topic though, who's excited for Ant Man next month? :D

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #958 on: June 14, 2015, 06:19:03 PM »
Which will almost certainly continue to grow more and more once their Netflix movies and what not as well start to come out.

Bit more on topic though, who's excited for Ant Man next month? :D

Better question, who HASN'T been excited for Ant Man since the second trailer dropped? That first one was seriously iffy but it just keeps looking better and better! I'm definitely going for 3D because I think the micro world lends itself to that the way that Guardians of the Galaxy's otherworldly environments did. Probably going to skip that for Civil War depending on how the trailers look.

Offline Dice

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #959 on: June 14, 2015, 06:32:00 PM »
Better question, who HASN'T been excited for Ant Man since the second trailer dropped?

*Raises hand*

I might be alone on this, but having the driving force that made the whole thing a reality leave production in unhappy circumstance makes me uneasy.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #960 on: June 14, 2015, 06:35:39 PM »
*Raises hand*

I might be alone on this, but having the driving force that made the whole thing a reality leave production in unhappy circumstance makes me uneasy.

Whowhat now?

Offline DominantPoet

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #961 on: June 14, 2015, 06:42:57 PM »
Whowhat now?

Edgar Wright quit the Director position and it was given to Peyton Reed. Edgar was one of the main reasons the project is believed to have come to fruition to begin with.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #962 on: June 14, 2015, 07:46:27 PM »
Damn. I hope he gains some recognition then if not by Marvel then someone should spread the word

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #963 on: June 14, 2015, 08:52:24 PM »
Frankly if they weren't going to have Ant-Man up and running by the time the first Avengers started, what could we really expect to come of it, Wright being involved or not? The root of the problem was Marvel wanting him to make changes to the story to fit it into the MCU's broadening universe and his vision of a self-contained sort of thing did not lend itself to being part of the MCU (had this been one of the early films like The Incredible Hulk, and perhaps dropped in 2009 when there was a big break (2008, and then nothing again until 2010) between MCU releases, its quirkiness might have made it endearing enough to do really well and might have out-earned TIH at the box office). If this issue hadn't been made clear between both director and studio WAY beforehand, and evaluations of the script being done at regular intervals to ensure full agreement and cooperation, well, somebody screwed the pooch big time. This obviously gets harder and harder the longer they wait to finish up a project with a more obscure hero when more and more things are happening in the universe around them and more contortions have to be made to fit just right. I mean, who could argue that a director being the writer as well is the best way to ensure the film ends up exactly as intended? Joss Whedon knocked Avengers 1 out of the park by doing that. The drawback is the freedom they need/want and the bottom line of the studio's demands inevitably clashing at some points. The ideal scenario would have been Ant-Man teaming up with the Avengers to defend New York after his own Phase 1 solo movie so he'd at least have been in the continuity sooner even if he didn't get any solo sequels like most of the rest of the team. How kick-ass would it have been to see him start using his Giant Man formula and start smacking some of those Chitauri jetskis out of the sky, or tackling one of those big Leviathans or getting one in a headlock and wrestling it like a gator? Guess we'll have to wait til Infinity War to see that if they ever get around to making him able to do anything other than shrink. I honestly can't see him being useful enough to even be hanging with either side of the Civil War unless he brings that Goliath-style magic to the table.

One good thing we can say is, they're using an appropriate villain who, while having similar abilities, does the Iron Man approach by being much more streamlined and upgraded (those extra arms and lasers, plus one would almost believe he could fly based on some of his movements) from the looks of things and that's great, much better than both of Cap's carbon-copy super soldier foes in each of his own movies. The more they can do to differentiate the villain from the hero, the better as far as I'm concerned (Thor vs. Loki and Thor vs. Malekith are great examples) so this looks like it will be different enough from Iron Man (which was a concern among many youtube commentators). Although it does make me think Ant-Man is going to defeat him by flooding the Yellowjacket suit with insects since I'm not so sure that guy can control them the way Ant-Man does.

And whether or not Wright's magic touch remains in part or very largely, it does look like they're not taking it too seriously, with lots of humor injected into it and let's face it, that's what made Thor: The Dark World and Guardians of the Galaxy work. I think they know they don't have the greatest thing in the world on their hands but they're still determined to do right by it and I'm glad they're sticking with it. It's not like they're having big threequel aspirations like DC did with Green Lantern and then having to pull the plug, they're more aware of the limitations of the appeal and just want to make the best thing they can and I respect that. I just want there to be some bigger overarching relevance to the MCU as a whole and I think they're going to deliver so it avoids that self-containment issue that caused all this drama in the first place (otherwise what'll have been the point?) I do wish it hadn't pissed Wright off enough to make it seem like he'll never want to get involved in this sort of production again, for Marvel or otherwise. I'm having Three Flavors Cornetto Trilogy withdrawal after The World's End. I gots to have more!

Online CuriousEyes

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #964 on: June 15, 2015, 08:35:15 AM »
I'm not sure what to think with the Marvel/Sony deal. It seems the reason they're torn on actor choice is because they're basically going to share the actor - Marvel gets Spidey for crossover appearances, but Sony is still going to be developing his standalone movies? What does that mean for what happens in the Sony-developed Spidey movies? Is Marvel going to have oversight over those plots, or are they going to have to decide from them what goes in or out of the MCU? Is Sony going to have access to the MCU stable for the standalones?


All-in-all, it just sounds so complicated I'm shocked it hasn't worked out better. /sarcasm


But really, yeah, I could see why that could really complicate casting if it's all true. Marvel is just looking for someone that's going to appear for a small portion of a movie as a supporting character while not, one would assume, taking too much attention away from the main players. Sony needs an actor they believe can carry an entire standalone franchise while again rebooting the High School Years. To be honest, given those factors I am almost shocked they can even agree into this age range. You would think one of the studios would have possibly wanted to try an adult Peter Parker (maybe with a slightly retconned backstory) - I think that makes more sense  for Sony at this point than trying to do another radioactive spider introduction we all know already.

I guess there just wasn't enough money in the world for Marvel to set up a deal to allow them to use whatever Spider-Man they cast, with Sony allowed to do whatever they wanted with their rights to the character. Really seems like the deal could/would be friendlier to Sony if it actually gets anywhere though.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #965 on: June 15, 2015, 11:14:54 AM »
The only way Marvel will get the rights to Spidey back is if Sony had a box office flop.  That's the bottom line of this whole.mess and the onlyreason why Sony rrefuses to part with the rights. Money.

As long as they can turn a profit it will NEVER happen.

That said the new FF4 movie should be coming out soon. Anyone here think if that flops Fox would be willing to  sell the rights back?

Galactus would be a great foe to deal with after Thanos.

Online CuriousEyes

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #966 on: June 15, 2015, 11:34:58 AM »
Oh sure, I know they won't get a complete return of the rights in our lifetimes.

I just wonder if there wasn't a deal that could have gotten the rights to use Spider-Man in the MCU that wasn't contingent on this bizarre joint-casting venture they've gone down. Basically said "here's a money truck, we can have Spider-Man appear as a supporting character in other MCU heroes films, and you do whatever else you want with him in the interim."

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #967 on: June 15, 2015, 01:51:42 PM »
A big problem with this joint casting is the mindset both sides are going into. Yeah Marvel is at the end of the day out to make money. You would have to be a fool or really hate the product to ignore how much love is being put into these Marvel movies. Marvel is out to tell the story of how this universe is dealing with heroes popping up in the world, their role in the universe and how they affect it, and the quest for the Infinity Stones. That is the MCU in a nutshell.

Marvel wants a young Peter Parker whom is not there for the sake of appealing to the age group like the kid sidekick from Iron Man 3.

Sony wants a young Peter Parker to appeal to the age group to pull more people into the theatre now that the MCU has a Spider-man they will be making money off of.

I assure you if Amazing Spidey 2 wasn't a failure this deal wouldn't even be an idea. Sony is desperate to keep milking the product and still wanting to do it there way.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #968 on: June 15, 2015, 03:37:02 PM »
A big problem with this joint casting is the mindset both sides are going into. Yeah Marvel is at the end of the day out to make money. You would have to be a fool or really hate the product to ignore how much love is being put into these Marvel movies. Marvel is out to tell the story of how this universe is dealing with heroes popping up in the world, their role in the universe and how they affect it, and the quest for the Infinity Stones. That is the MCU in a nutshell.

Marvel wants a young Peter Parker whom is not there for the sake of appealing to the age group like the kid sidekick from Iron Man 3.

Sony wants a young Peter Parker to appeal to the age group to pull more people into the theatre now that the MCU has a Spider-man they will be making money off of.

I assure you if Amazing Spidey 2 wasn't a failure this deal wouldn't even be an idea. Sony is desperate to keep milking the product and still wanting to do it there way.

Erm...the very fact that 'Marvel wants a young Peter Parker' at all is just alarming. Whatever their reason, it can't be good enough to justify doing this again.

My understanding was that any Sony-produced solo Spidey films would be MCU canon at least for the time being. How well that will work is debatable. Things like Norman Osborn and his shenanigans bleeding into the Avengers' pool might be a bit too complex. Frankly I liked the idea of the MCU functioning without the X-Men, F4 and Spidey since that meant those constraints would force them to get really creative (and Guardians of the Galaxy proved they could pull it off!) and of course also alter fundamental storylines they would be drawing upon since key characters would be missing, since Civil War obviously can't go down in the same way as the comics, which is good in terms of keeping things from being too terribly predictable.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 03:41:09 PM by Mathim »

Offline Dice

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #969 on: June 15, 2015, 04:22:57 PM »
Yea, well it's a bit hard to run Civil without Spider taking centre stage.

Got to agree though. I am a comic nut and I had no idea what Guardian's was until the shorts hit. More of those and less reruns of things I have seen six times in the last decade.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #970 on: June 15, 2015, 05:34:24 PM »
Yea, well it's a bit hard to run Civil without Spider taking centre stage.

Got to agree though. I am a comic nut and I had no idea what Guardian's was until the shorts hit. More of those and less reruns of things I have seen six times in the last decade.

A bit hard? I think they can pull it off. Might be why they're throwing every superhero and their mother into this one. But for Spidey to still be a freaking child, whether in Civil War or otherwise, is just flatly a mistake. I mean, this isn't DC where Billy Batson becomes as strong and invulnerable as Superman when he transforms into Captain Marvel/Shazam. Peter Parker, regardless of his age, is very much vulnerable even with his Spider-Sense and lest we forget, him being in high school means situations like, "Oh, I can't go crimefighting tonight, way too much homework." I mean, if they ever tried to pull that shit with any of the current Avengers we'd probably hang someone.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #971 on: June 15, 2015, 06:35:05 PM »
Alot of the major events which made Spider-Man who he is happened after high school. Sure he was bitten while in high school, but wasn't he already like a senior in high school? The death of Gwen Stacey occurred shortly thereafter after the death of Uncle Ben. I don't see how he could fight the opponents like Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc unless they were also high school age. While the Sam Raimi movies had flaws, at least in spirit it felt like a comic book movie.

Civil War already has a large cast and I don't think Spidey would fit unless in a short cameo or in an end credits scent to tease the next movie. Civil war is already in production, and it is highly probable that negotiations between Marvel and Sony will resolve to include Spider-man. If they want to do a young Spider character, they should go with Spider-Girl/May Parker.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #972 on: June 15, 2015, 07:02:33 PM »
Alot of the major events which made Spider-Man who he is happened after high school. Sure he was bitten while in high school, but wasn't he already like a senior in high school? The death of Gwen Stacey occurred shortly thereafter after the death of Uncle Ben. I don't see how he could fight the opponents like Green Goblin, Doc Ock, etc unless they were also high school age. While the Sam Raimi movies had flaws, at least in spirit it felt like a comic book movie.

Civil War already has a large cast and I don't think Spidey would fit unless in a short cameo or in an end credits scent to tease the next movie. Civil war is already in production, and it is highly probable that negotiations between Marvel and Sony will resolve to include Spider-man. If they want to do a young Spider character, they should go with Spider-Girl/May Parker.

Or, if they're so desperate for pandering, Miles Morales who is a teen anyway. But then yes, keep him as purely a short cameo and no more.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #973 on: June 15, 2015, 07:46:20 PM »
Stumbled across a news article. There are rumored five comic book movies being primed for production in the wake of Jurassic World's success.

Devil Dinosaur (Marvel)
The War That Time Forgot (DC Comics)
Ka-Zar (Marvel)
The Warlord (DC Comics)
Timewalker (Valiant)

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #974 on: June 15, 2015, 08:33:19 PM »
Stumbled across a news article. There are rumored five comic book movies being primed for production in the wake of Jurassic World's success.

Devil Dinosaur (Marvel)
The War That Time Forgot (DC Comics)
Ka-Zar (Marvel)
The Warlord (DC Comics)
Timewalker (Valiant)

Now, when you say Marvel, you mean Marvel Studios, right? Or are some of these obscure properties' film rights owned by other studios like Fox owning F4 and X-Men?