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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 135409 times)

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Offline CaptainNexus616


Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #801 on: May 21, 2015, 08:45:02 PM »
So we are officially getting really overcrowded in Civil War. This is the super-cast:
Captain America
Bucky/Winter Soldier
Black Widow
Hawkeye
Iron Man/Tony Stark (possibly w/out suit)
War Machine
Vision
Scarlet Witch
Falcon
Black Panther
Ant-Man
Spider-Boy

And that's not including villains. More than 10 heroes in total. That's more than the full roster of Age of Ultron. How many more will be revealed between now and when they move to post-production? And who's Bilbo (Martin Freeman) going to be playing in it since the announcement of his joining the cast?

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #802 on: May 21, 2015, 10:07:49 PM »
Whoa now while I have been enjoying the wonders they have been working....its beginning to sound more and more like this should have been the Avengers instead of Age of Ultron...

For that matter Black Panther will be appearing before his solo movie? Ok...that's a new approach for a Superhero movie.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 10:08:53 PM by CaptainNexus616 »

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #803 on: May 21, 2015, 10:36:41 PM »
Black Panther might be appearing without the costume. Sort of to introduce him, since in Avengers Age of Ultron teased the use of Vibranium and the villain portrayed by Andy Serkiss. It is probably there is going to be a race to obtain the valuable, rare material which opens trade talks with Wakanda.  His appearance is to set him up for his upcoming movie.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #804 on: May 21, 2015, 11:04:15 PM »
Remember also, Marvel said they're ditching origin story format for Phase 3, so it makes sense they'd introduce these characters (possibly Doctor Strange, or even Captain Marvel) before their own solo movies.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #805 on: May 21, 2015, 11:07:27 PM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I'm sure Ultron using all that Vibranium to nearly end the world certainly got the Panther outraged and is probably the whole reason we are going to see him so early.

Now I just did a little research on Black Panther and I cannot believe how I have overlooked such a badass character. The Black Panther name itself is literally the title to his status as leader of the Panther clan and basically the king of the whole nation. When a new one is appointed they eat a special herb which boost their abilities similar to the Super-Soldier Serum but only to Olympic levels. Not only that but this guy also has access to the most advanced tech and the entire wealth of his nation.

My only question now is how close will they keep his Cinematic Counterpart compared to his comic version?

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #806 on: May 22, 2015, 05:42:41 AM »
Shifting gears again, the Supergirl pilot is floating around the intertubes and sure there are certain things that could use a little polishing and tweaking but Melissa Benoist is good as Kara, the rest of the character backgrounds need filling out a bit but that should develop over time. One thing I picked up on from the pilot was that the odds of a Supergirl/Arrow/Flash/Legends crossover are close to zero, in Supergirl it turns out the Superman has been flying round Metropolis for 10+ years which doesn't fit the established history of the other shows.

Offline consortium11

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #807 on: May 22, 2015, 06:15:18 AM »
Now I just did a little research on Black Panther and I cannot believe how I have overlooked such a badass character. The Black Panther name itself is literally the title to his status as leader of the Panther clan and basically the king of the whole nation. When a new one is appointed they eat a special herb which boost their abilities similar to the Super-Soldier Serum but only to Olympic levels. Not only that but this guy also has access to the most advanced tech and the entire wealth of his nation.

My only question now is how close will they keep his Cinematic Counterpart compared to his comic version?

For all his badass'edness he's also a guy who's been sitting on the cure for cancer for decades but refuses to give it to the rest of the world. Wakanda's (and thus to an extent his) defining trait is extreme isolationism and xenophobia. There's actually some interesting comparisons made between him and Dr Doom... both are heads of state, one is a hero and one is a villain but whenever the villainous Doom has taken over the world he's made it a better place, while the heroic Black Panther would let the world burn to save Wakanda (pretty much literally... when he refused to destroy a whole world to possibly protect this one the spirits of the previous Black Panthers chastise and shun him for not doing his duty).

To be fair Black Panther's suffered from some horrific writers in recent years... notably Reginald Hudlin who basically turned every plot into a race issue (with everyone who opposed the Black Panther or was a nominal bad guy suddenly becoming openly racist) and had Panther and Storm marry largely on the basis that they were both famous black characters from Africa.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #808 on: May 22, 2015, 08:22:42 AM »
Shifting gears again, the Supergirl pilot is floating around the intertubes and sure there are certain things that could use a little polishing and tweaking but Melissa Benoist is good as Kara, the rest of the character backgrounds need filling out a bit but that should develop over time. One thing I picked up on from the pilot was that the odds of a Supergirl/Arrow/Flash/Legends crossover are close to zero, in Supergirl it turns out the Superman has been flying round Metropolis for 10+ years which doesn't fit the established history of the other shows.

Sorta begs the question "Why bother?" then, doesn't it? Something as cornball as this looks not having any connection to the other shows kind of destroys its credibility.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #809 on: May 22, 2015, 10:04:44 AM »
Sorta begs the question "Why bother?" then, doesn't it? Something as cornball as this looks not having any connection to the other shows kind of destroys its credibility.
No, it really doesn't beg the question but then I guess you'd have to know what begging the question actually means.

However I could ask you a similar question. Looking at what you post in this thread, most of it is negative and snarky. If you think so much of the superhero based entertainment, on both big and small screens, is derisible then why bother watching any of it? If 99% of it is terrible or at least disappointing, then armed with that knowledge surely only a total lunatic would watch any superhero based movie or TV show.

Based on your "logic" nobody should watch Supergirl, Gotham, iZombie, Lucifer, Preacher, Blackbirds or even Teen Titans Go! because they don't link to a pair of TV shows on what is a fairly small network.  ::)

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #810 on: May 22, 2015, 11:48:22 AM »
For all his badass'edness he's also a guy who's been sitting on the cure for cancer for decades but refuses to give it to the rest of the world. Wakanda's (and thus to an extent his) defining trait is extreme isolationism and xenophobia. There's actually some interesting comparisons made between him and Dr Doom... both are heads of state, one is a hero and one is a villain but whenever the villainous Doom has taken over the world he's made it a better place, while the heroic Black Panther would let the world burn to save Wakanda (pretty much literally... when he refused to destroy a whole world to possibly protect this one the spirits of the previous Black Panthers chastise and shun him for not doing his duty).

To be fair Black Panther's suffered from some horrific writers in recent years... notably Reginald Hudlin who basically turned every plot into a race issue (with everyone who opposed the Black Panther or was a nominal bad guy suddenly becoming openly racist) and had Panther and Storm marry largely on the basis that they were both famous black characters from Africa.


OK definitely won't argue there. Heck the comics usually suffer this anymore as a result of the writers. Spider-Man is one who definitely got a lot of crap including notable events such as One More Day and Superior Spider-Man

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #811 on: May 22, 2015, 04:00:19 PM »
No, it really doesn't beg the question but then I guess you'd have to know what begging the question actually means.

However I could ask you a similar question. Looking at what you post in this thread, most of it is negative and snarky. If you think so much of the superhero based entertainment, on both big and small screens, is derisible then why bother watching any of it? If 99% of it is terrible or at least disappointing, then armed with that knowledge surely only a total lunatic would watch any superhero based movie or TV show.

Based on your "logic" nobody should watch Supergirl, Gotham, iZombie, Lucifer, Preacher, Blackbirds or even Teen Titans Go! because they don't link to a pair of TV shows on what is a fairly small network.  ::)

If they're pumping it up the way Arrow and Flash have been, and it's supposed to be on the same network (I welcome correction if I'm wrong), to forsake such an opportunity to have that connection between 3 shows (not even Marvel has done that directly yet, since nobody from Agents of SHIELD or Agent Carter appeared in Daredevil) is such a waste. If they're going totally bubbly and goofy with it they could at least leave it open for appearances by more characters to give it a good way to move in a different direction if audiences don't like it, to help keep it from getting cancelled if they really want it to last more than 1/2-1 season.

People didn't generally warm up to Andrew Garfield's awkward nerdy Peter Parker and I see Kara/Supergirl being looked at in the same way except that she'd probably also get feminists on her case too. It's been pretty elephant-in-the-room-y that DC is trying to go through every Marvel book to see what works and play catch-up but they don't have a good eye for what works and what doesn't.

As for the rest of those things, I won't watch Gotham because there's no Batman, I've never read iZombie so I have no opinion one way or another, same with Lucifer/Blackbirds, I enjoy Teen Titans because the intent to be goofy is implied in the fact that it's a really primitively animated cartoon, and while I loved the Preacher graphic novels, I am just a bit skeptical about some of the casting choices. With Supergirl, the entire tone of the show seems not to really mesh with a winning formula. I don't have anything against them trying something new, but to just jump out of the plane with no parachute just doesn't make sense. I suppose if it gets cancelled after 6 episodes it won't matter much but I just hate to see a waste of such potential.

I love the idea of superhero shows and movies but as a fan I'd just like them done right and it so rarely happens that it tends to get a bit disappointing. All I can do is continue to shell out the cash for tickets and hope that them making all kinds of money encourages them (all of them, Marvel, DC and others) to either continue doing well, or do better. The fact that trivial decisions that could be made by teenagers seem beyond the imagination of studio execs so much of the time does inspire some bitterness though, that I can't lie about.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 04:06:15 PM by Mathim »

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #812 on: May 22, 2015, 06:13:09 PM »
Arrow and The Flash are both CW shows that are soon to be joined by Vixen and Legends of Tomorrow and they will have a shared history. Supergirl is a CBS show and it always has been. Yes CW and CBS have the same parent company but they are different networks that have different audiences, so not having the shows closely linked makes a lot of sense.

With Supergirl, the entire tone of the show seems not to really mesh with a winning formula.
So you know exactly what the tone of a 22 episode series is based on a 3 minute trailer? Which is odd, because after watching 45-ish minutes I can see there are certain ideas that aren'r fully fleshed out yet, but that's not surprising after just 1 episode. But there is enough in the pilot to make me want to see what happens next, including jetisoning certain standard plot lines from the start.

I love the idea of superhero shows and movies but as a fan I'd just like them done right and it so rarely happens that it tends to get a bit disappointing. All I can do is continue to shell out the cash for tickets and hope that them making all kinds of money encourages them to either continue doing well, or do better.
Now this just sheer lunacy, firstly what is "done right"? If you ask 10 different people you'll get 12 different answers. Also your actions make your opinion irrelavent, the purpose of movies is to get money out of you and if they entertain you in the process then that's just a happy accident. But if someone going to "continue to shell out the cash for tickets" the movie has done it's job of taking your money, so they'll keep making the same thing. But stop shelling out cash, stop watching TV shows etc. then things might change.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #813 on: May 22, 2015, 10:31:45 PM »
Arrow and The Flash are both CW shows that are soon to be joined by Vixen and Legends of Tomorrow and they will have a shared history. Supergirl is a CBS show and it always has been. Yes CW and CBS have the same parent company but they are different networks that have different audiences, so not having the shows closely linked makes a lot of sense.
So you know exactly what the tone of a 22 episode series is based on a 3 minute trailer? Which is odd, because after watching 45-ish minutes I can see there are certain ideas that aren'r fully fleshed out yet, but that's not surprising after just 1 episode. But there is enough in the pilot to make me want to see what happens next, including jetisoning certain standard plot lines from the start.
Now this just sheer lunacy, firstly what is "done right"? If you ask 10 different people you'll get 12 different answers. Also your actions make your opinion irrelavent, the purpose of movies is to get money out of you and if they entertain you in the process then that's just a happy accident. But if someone going to "continue to shell out the cash for tickets" the movie has done it's job of taking your money, so they'll keep making the same thing. But stop shelling out cash, stop watching TV shows etc. then things might change.

Man, you sucked all the fun out of this conversation. I was going to address this but forget it, you're not interested in a discussion, you're interested in attacking me like a cyber bully, so have fun on your ego trip. Want to laugh at me because I got hit by a car last week, too?

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #814 on: May 22, 2015, 10:40:29 PM »
Legends of Tomorrow looks interesting. They're taking a risk bringing in Hawkgirl. But, it seems like it might payoff. And, bringing Sara back, another gamble. It could run the risk of a jump the shark moment, but if they play it right it will be interesting. Definitely going to tune it to this.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #815 on: May 23, 2015, 03:58:09 AM »
Legends of Tomorrow looks interesting. They're taking a risk bringing in Hawkgirl. But, it seems like it might payoff. And, bringing Sara back, another gamble. It could run the risk of a jump the shark moment, but if they play it right it will be interesting. Definitely going to tune it to this.
In some respects Sara's return is a little bit of a no-brainer, what with all of the "They killed the wrong Lance sister" comments from the start of this season's Arrow. The problem is how they do it, which has already been seen in the trailer but I thought they'd already established that method wouldn't work.

I don't think the problem is going to be the team but the setting, if they are bouncing around in time then there are going to be a vast number of opportunities for the show to look very cheesy. However it looks like they are introducing the Legends on Flash before the series launches in it's own right, so maybe if they keep the tone from Flash no sharks will be harmed during filming.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #816 on: May 23, 2015, 08:18:47 AM »
Legends of Tomorrow looks interesting. They're taking a risk bringing in Hawkgirl. But, it seems like it might payoff. And, bringing Sara back, another gamble. It could run the risk of a jump the shark moment, but if they play it right it will be interesting. Definitely going to tune it to this.

I liked Hawkgirl, she was one of my favorites from the Justice League animated series. I don't remember seeing much if any of her on Smallville, mostly just Hawkman, so seeing her in live action would be awesome.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #817 on: May 23, 2015, 11:20:18 AM »
Hawkgirl was dead on Smallville. Killed before the JSA was disbanded and part of the reason why Carter Hall was reluctant to assist Clark. He didn't see Shayera until Season 10. Before the Icarus episode. The only time Carter saw her was when he was about to die. To be reborn and find her again. The Hawkgirl they are using on Legends of Tomorrow is Kendra Saunders.

Its been implied they used the Lazarus Pit to revive her. Which if the person is dead and placed into like Jason Todd, it can have negative effects wherein their mental stability is in question.  There is the question that Sara might not be the same as she was before death. The only issue with using the Pit on a dead person is that the person has to truly not be dead. There has to be some sort of life in them. If a dead person is revived, typically they are an undead zombie.

Other flip side, is that this Sara is from another timeline. It depends how they utilize time travel. Legends was sort to be a Flashpoint-like story. Which since The Flash played with Time it created an alternate reality where Bruce Wayne never became Batman, he was killed instead of his parents. Thomas Wayne became a lethal Batman, while Martha became the Joker after going insane. So, timetravel can come off cheesy if not done right, but so far they have been doing a pretty good job. Other shows have had success with timetravel/alternate realities.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 11:33:16 AM by SapphireStar »

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #818 on: May 23, 2015, 09:09:04 PM »
Hawkgirl was dead on Smallville. Killed before the JSA was disbanded and part of the reason why Carter Hall was reluctant to assist Clark. He didn't see Shayera until Season 10. Before the Icarus episode. The only time Carter saw her was when he was about to die. To be reborn and find her again. The Hawkgirl they are using on Legends of Tomorrow is Kendra Saunders.

Its been implied they used the Lazarus Pit to revive her. Which if the person is dead and placed into like Jason Todd, it can have negative effects wherein their mental stability is in question.  There is the question that Sara might not be the same as she was before death. The only issue with using the Pit on a dead person is that the person has to truly not be dead. There has to be some sort of life in them. If a dead person is revived, typically they are an undead zombie.

Other flip side, is that this Sara is from another timeline. It depends how they utilize time travel. Legends was sort to be a Flashpoint-like story. Which since The Flash played with Time it created an alternate reality where Bruce Wayne never became Batman, he was killed instead of his parents. Thomas Wayne became a lethal Batman, while Martha became the Joker after going insane. So, timetravel can come off cheesy if not done right, but so far they have been doing a pretty good job. Other shows have had success with timetravel/alternate realities.

That was a little spoilery for my taste, but now I kinda want to see it even more. And yeah, time travel plots in comic book stuff never seem to quite wrap up as neatly as they seem to on, say, Star Trek.

And that description about how the Pit works got me imagining Miracle Max from The Princess Bride, talking about "Mostly dead, not ALL dead." LOL.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #819 on: May 23, 2015, 09:35:24 PM »
Even within the comic books, they've had characters from other realities cross over into the main universe. I believe Power Girl is one. It depends who is writing. The Flashpoint story arc was pretty good. The animated movie was brutal with the all out war. How one tiny event could rewrite everyone's destiny.

Smallville did a decent job of handling Hawkman, Dr. Fate and a few others. The actors playing them really helped pull it off. Michael Shanks was awesome as Carter Hall. Especially the antagonistic relationship with Green Arrow in the beginning. (Apologizes for the spoiler)

Carter: "I miss my typewriter."
Oliver: "You miss the telegraph." - from Season 10, Icarus

During the Justice League two parter, they teased some of the other characters, like Specter, Wildcat, Jay Garrick/Green Lantern, The Flash, Sandman, and others through the use of the museum.

If they are using the Pit in Legends of Tomorrow, that could prove a bit of a problem if it is over used as a plot device.  Now every time I see the Lazarus Pit appear I'm going to see Miracle Max  ;D O:)

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #820 on: May 24, 2015, 08:27:39 AM »
Even within the comic books, they've had characters from other realities cross over into the main universe. I believe Power Girl is one. It depends who is writing. The Flashpoint story arc was pretty good. The animated movie was brutal with the all out war. How one tiny event could rewrite everyone's destiny.

Smallville did a decent job of handling Hawkman, Dr. Fate and a few others. The actors playing them really helped pull it off. Michael Shanks was awesome as Carter Hall. Especially the antagonistic relationship with Green Arrow in the beginning. (Apologizes for the spoiler)

Carter: "I miss my typewriter."
Oliver: "You miss the telegraph." - from Season 10, Icarus

During the Justice League two parter, they teased some of the other characters, like Specter, Wildcat, Jay Garrick/Green Lantern, The Flash, Sandman, and others through the use of the museum.

If they are using the Pit in Legends of Tomorrow, that could prove a bit of a problem if it is over used as a plot device.  Now every time I see the Lazarus Pit appear I'm going to see Miracle Max  ;D O:)

Yeah, crossing over from alternate universes reminds me of that Justice League (TV show) arc where the Flash is killed and it turns all the others really hardcore about controlling Earth, to where they start calling themselves the Justice Lords, and then create a portal to the 'normal' universe to impose their will on the Justice League's reality. They may have been stopped and sent back to their own world, but from then on, everyone was scared that time could still lead to that eventuality in the 'normal' universe too. That would be really cool if they played out a similar story on one of the live-action shows.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #821 on: May 24, 2015, 11:53:46 AM »
Even in Smallville they did an alternate storyline where Clark Kent was never found by the Kents, but raised by Lionel Luthor. His secret identity there was Ultraman. Hinting at the Crime Syndicate Ultraman. The two Clark's swapped places with the use of the Mirrorbox. Have to admit, Tom Welling pulled off both roles pretty good.

They are adding a time traveler, Rip Hunter to Legends of Tomorrow. So, it could be they will be dealing with time travel and alternate realities. Rumors are flying about the latest casting addition. The character has strong ties to S.T.A.R. Labs. My money is on Cyborg.

In that Justice League episode, the only one who seemed to largely stay the same was Batman. The animted Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths movie is pretty good. Where they get help from a good Lex Luthor and battle the Crime Syndicate.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #822 on: May 24, 2015, 04:28:32 PM »
Injustice is another prime example of a Justice Lords scenario.

Back in the old days of comics when Superman could take out Solar Systems by sneezing. A what-if scenario occurred where Clark landed in the Soviet Union instead of Smallville.  I'll let that terrifying thought sink in for awhile.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #823 on: May 24, 2015, 04:40:20 PM »
Injustice is another prime example of a Justice Lords scenario.

Back in the old days of comics when Superman could take out Solar Systems by sneezing. A what-if scenario occurred where Clark landed in the Soviet Union instead of Smallville.  I'll let that terrifying thought sink in for awhile.
You mean the good old Red-Son

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #824 on: May 24, 2015, 04:48:04 PM »
I happened across this rumor, but I don't know how old it is. It was referring to a possible crossover between Arrow and Constantine. But, seeing as Constantine appears to be cancelled, I don't think it will happen. Though, even though the show might be cancelled they could still have the character make an appearance, same with Zatanna. Would be interesting to see how they work the magic literally.