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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 135494 times)

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Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #725 on: May 10, 2015, 02:53:29 PM »
Actually I heard Agent Carter was rather well received. Its further proving Marvel really knows what they are doing, if they can make an eight episode show about the love interest of Captain America in WWII era and make it well received. Really at this point I am hooked on the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It offers so much and they have gained a reputation for making good quality movies and other content including cartoons and TV shows. A lot of love and hard work is being into the Marvel Cinematic Universe and its showing. How often can you say that about a franchise making it onto the big screen these days? *Glares at Transformers and Ninja Turtles*

I never said it was bad, I said it wasn't able to draw enough viewers in is all. Hell, without the Tesseract it would have been impossible to make Captain America the First Avenger interesting, so even I'm not rushing in to see Agent Carter. Agents of SHIELD already has me dealing with mixed feelings.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #726 on: May 11, 2015, 11:27:22 AM »
Actually I heard Agent Carter was rather well received. Its further proving Marvel really knows what they are doing, if they can make an eight episode show about the love interest of Captain America in WWII era and make it well received. Really at this point I am hooked on the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It offers so much and they have gained a reputation for making good quality movies and other content including cartoons and TV shows. A lot of love and hard work is being into the Marvel Cinematic Universe and its showing. How often can you say that about a franchise making it onto the big screen these days? *Glares at Transformers and Ninja Turtles*
In all fairness, the while the Transformers movies and Ninja Turtles weren't good, you have to admit that the source material wasn't exactly stellar either. When not seen through the Rosy nostalgia glasses, anyways. Personally, I always thought, even as a kid that the concept of ninja reptiles taught by a rodent in the sewers was a bit much, and the Transformers cartoons was made to sell the toys. Neither were very good.

And when you compare that to movies that are comic book adaptations, and see that there are literally decades of source material, both good and bad, to choose from it's not really fair to compare one to the other.

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #727 on: May 11, 2015, 02:25:18 PM »
Any concept can sound silly in general whether it be about a ninja turtle, a transforming robot disguised as a car, a frozen super soldier experiment from WWII with a shield, a god from mythology, or even a giant mean green monster. As long as someone knows what they are doing they can make gold.

There is also decades of source material with Transformers and Ninja Turtles as well. While a lot of people jump onto the G1 boat there was also plenty of comics and tv shows they could have adapted but never did. Problem is some people like Michael Bay don't even bother adapting and decide to fill their movies with CGI action scenes with hot girls and call it a great movie. Granted there is nothing wrong with using CGI but it shouldn't be a replacement for plot. Plus....Bay never really expanded on either universe regardless if he was directing transformers or producing Ninja Turtles here it is in a nutshell for Transformers.

Ancient Transformer artifact on Earth or the Moon: Allspark, Sun Harvester, Matrix of Leadership, Space Bridge, Sentinel Prime's body, and Dinobots.

America hates Autobots so much when the Deceptions have Earth in their evil grasp.....they decide to order the Autobots to go away.

Human focused narrative. Which we are more than likely not going to care about the characters.

Megatron having little relevance to the story other than to blow stuff up and kill an Autobot off (His greatest feat was killing Optimus before Prime was brought back to life later in the movie.)

Optimus opening and ending speech.

The Ninja Turtles...that literally stole the plot from the first Amazing Spider-Man movie when the franchise has proven it has far more to offer than a Transformer Shredder and someone else's plot. I really don't want to get into the rest wrong with that movie.  When it was proven with both the 2003 & 2012 shows proved they have the potential to make good stuff from source material AND new content about four Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 02:33:48 PM by CaptainNexus616 »

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #728 on: May 11, 2015, 04:12:37 PM »
I'll be the first to admit (Well... 12 millionth anyways) that Micheal Bay likes to replace good acting with BEWBs and solid plot with EXPLOSIONS! Amazingly arrogant too, as he nominated himself for the Oscar of Best Director for the latest Transformers movie.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #729 on: May 11, 2015, 05:02:46 PM »
'Amazingly arrogant'...that is basically what you find when you look up 'director' in the dictionary. He's just the latest in a long tradition of such.

The man deserves credit though, he's conscious of the niche he has created and owns it gleefully. The fans who hate him for ruining their childhood memories aren't going to hate him any less, after all, and his style makes approximately all of the money. So he has zero reason to stop doing what he does, as long as people keep giving him projects to work on.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 05:05:40 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #730 on: May 12, 2015, 09:02:12 AM »
'Amazingly arrogant'...that is basically what you find when you look up 'director' in the dictionary. He's just the latest in a long tradition of such.

The man deserves credit though, he's conscious of the niche he has created and owns it gleefully. The fans who hate him for ruining their childhood memories aren't going to hate him any less, after all, and his style makes approximately all of the money. So he has zero reason to stop doing what he does, as long as people keep giving him projects to work on.

Well enough people who haven't figured out how colossally bad his films are have been spending the money. If true fans really do hate what he stands for, shouldn't the box office gross go down significantly? I guess enough of them are hypocrites if they keep shelling out the cash for this garbage, knowing what it's going to continue promoting.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #731 on: May 12, 2015, 10:50:36 AM »
Well... it's not the movie critics and affectionados that make box office cash. It's the people that go the movies to be mildly entertained for an hour and a half, the ones that don't care about the plot or character development. The people that go to laugh at the crummy jokes and watch the explosions and go Ooooooohhhh!

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #732 on: May 12, 2015, 11:51:13 AM »
Getting away from the pyromaniac that is Bay.....

Loki currently has the best survival rate among villains in movies.  3 on screen movies and MAYBE more assuming he survives Ragnorak.

Normally by the end of the movie they debut in they are killed off by the good guy or some other means.

You could claim Harry Osborn in the Ramni Spidey Trilogy ties if you consider him a villain from the start after declaring his intent to kill Spider-Man.

That said  which pre-existing villain do you all wish they kept around? Mine's a tie between Ultron and Stane from the first Iron Man movie. Jeff Bridges was epic as the villain.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #733 on: May 12, 2015, 12:22:23 PM »
Agent Sitwell didn't have a bad run; 3 movies, 2 shorts & 3 episodes of AoS

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #734 on: May 12, 2015, 12:59:48 PM »
Agent Sitwell didn't have a bad run; 3 movies, 2 shorts & 3 episodes of AoS

Well we didn't even know he was a villain until TWS, and even then, he was a peon. Not even good enough to compete with Black Widow or Falcon.

Thanos is still around after being teased in Avengers and shown speaking in Guardians. So he's catching up to Loki. And unlike Loki, we know for certain he's going to be around in at least two of the next Avengers movies.

Doctor Strange's villains seem the sort that never really die, so we'll probably see a few of them re-emerge after his movie.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #735 on: May 12, 2015, 01:05:53 PM »
I may cut into the discussion: I saw Avengers 2 today! What do you guys think?

Without going into spoilers, I can say that I liked it. It felt more... coherent plot-wise than the first movie. My small complaint is that, IMHO, Ultron's personality was a bit off in comparison to the comics. He was a bit too cool-headed and cultured - the comic Ultron is more of a seething hate engine...

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #736 on: May 12, 2015, 02:54:02 PM »
I loved that movie. I personally think it was a good call to make Ultron a bit more cultured. It helped set him apart from other villains and quite frankly it helped separate him from being another stereotype robot bent on genocide which we see plenty of already.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #737 on: May 12, 2015, 02:57:17 PM »
And it helps differentiate him from his comic book version, too - in the comics, Ultron is a creation of Hank Pym. In the MCU, Pym doesn't even exist yet (I think he'll be a side character in Ant-Man), and Ultron is instead created by Tony Stark and Bruce Banner. You see a lot of his 'parents' in this Ultron's personality...the culture, the mixture of cool-headed composure and violent rage, the jokes and sarcasm, the need for drama, the loneliness. He's probably one of the most realistic and well-developed portrayals of how I think AI is likely to eventually be, if it ever does (minus the genocide bit, at least) - artificial, but still recognizably 'human' in a lot of ways.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 02:58:36 PM by TheGlyphstone »

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #738 on: May 12, 2015, 03:36:24 PM »
And it helps differentiate him from his comic book version, too - in the comics, Ultron is a creation of Hank Pym. In the MCU, Pym doesn't even exist yet (I think he'll be a side character in Ant-Man), and Ultron is instead created by Tony Stark and Bruce Banner. You see a lot of his 'parents' in this Ultron's personality...the culture, the mixture of cool-headed composure and violent rage, the jokes and sarcasm, the need for drama, the loneliness. He's probably one of the most realistic and well-developed portrayals of how I think AI is likely to eventually be, if it ever does (minus the genocide bit, at least) - artificial, but still recognizably 'human' in a lot of ways.

Echoing this, I was reading an article where they interviewed someone involved with the movie (I can't remember for the life of me who... I'm out of it) and they said that Ultron was largely modeled after Tony when it came to personality and his interactions with others, so it explains the cool headedness and the sarcasm and snark. I loved it, personally, as I found the comics version of Ultron a little bland for all his rage.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #739 on: May 12, 2015, 11:55:24 PM »
Keeping him too close to the comics would have been less palatable. That was not a good way to go so I'm glad they gave him a Genuine People Personality (LOL).

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #740 on: May 13, 2015, 09:48:32 PM »
You know...I am really going to miss a lot of this big cast of heroes we have right now. Hemsworth as Thor, Evans as Captain America, Especially Ruffaio and RDJ as Hulk and Iron Man respectively. When they do eventually re-cast those heroes and villains the guys and girls going in are going to have HUGE shoes to fill. Its going to become like the James Bond or Doctor Who role.

They won't just cast anyone to take up the mantles after the success the Cinematic Universe has shown.

That said and forgive me for singaling one out but I couldn't really care less who they pick to be the next Falcon. I really don't like his character and I'm not talking about him not having his powers from the comics. Its just.....ugh in Winter Soldier he felt more like Cap's sidekick than Bucky did and I actually for some reason cringed a bit when I saw him in Age of Ultron at the end for SPOILER reasons...

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #741 on: May 13, 2015, 11:09:34 PM »
Well to be fair his entire origin got more of a makeover than almost everyone else.

Edit: Just finished Daredevil with my free month of Netflix and all I have to say is WOW! This is one of the most well-written dramas I've ever seen and by and large the performances were electric. Elden Henson as Foggy was, in my opinion, the best written and best acted part in the entire thing. What I regret is that Fisk, portrayed by Vincent D'Onofrio, was poorly acted and written as less complex and sophisticated as I recall him being from the old Spider-Man cartoon. I like how they fluttered romance in front of us and yet never made it a distracting focal point, and the tension between Matt and certain parties who learn his secret.

Would really prefer they not have demanded so heavily on our suspension of disbelief for how non-superpowered humans withstand and keep fighting with such an ungodly amount of damage and pain, and not seem to have any repercussions that would keep them from going out the very next day and not only not limping, popping stitches or weeping at muscle aches, but continuing to fight as though they were in peak condition. I don't buy that meditation crap (without a mystical element, which would have been an awesome lead-in to Iron Fist). If someone could have just had some sort of healing ability, that would have been fine (and probably more faithful to the comics) but no, we just had to swallow that a guy who must feel pain even more acutely than any of us somehow shrugs it off and goes off to get hurt more? Sorry, nuh-uh. That shit won't fly, son.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 12:13:04 PM by Mathim »

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #742 on: May 14, 2015, 04:14:10 PM »
I am kinda curious as to how Fisk will rebound from the events of the first season. He knows what he will be up against at this point so maybe he'll actually have several of his trademark canes made

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #743 on: May 14, 2015, 04:21:21 PM »
I am kinda curious as to how Fisk will rebound from the events of the first season. He knows what he will be up against at this point so maybe he'll actually have several of his trademark canes made

Probably should wrap stuff like that in spoilers, at least until the show's been on for 3 months or so (long enough for a movie to come out on DVD, you know?) But it's hard to imagine what Murdock will be facing in Season 2, apart from Fisk. I feel like a lot of spiritual, supernatural stuff was touched on and felt let down not getting to see it taken any further.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #744 on: May 14, 2015, 05:24:59 PM »

Would really prefer they not have demanded so heavily on our suspension of disbelief for how non-superpowered humans withstand and keep fighting with such an ungodly amount of damage and pain, and not seem to have any repercussions that would keep them from going out the very next day and not only not limping, popping stitches or weeping at muscle aches, but continuing to fight as though they were in peak condition. I don't buy that meditation crap (without a mystical element, which would have been an awesome lead-in to Iron Fist). If someone could have just had some sort of healing ability, that would have been fine (and probably more faithful to the comics) but no, we just had to swallow that a guy who must feel pain even more acutely than any of us somehow shrugs it off and goes off to get hurt more? Sorry, nuh-uh. That shit won't fly, son.

Is this really that big a deal? Bruce Willis sprints over broken class in the original Die Hard, then goes on to murder a building full of terrorists with no problem. Pretty much any Arnold Schwarzenegger character is metaphorically made of iron except the Terminator (who is literally made of iron). Those are just the two quickest examples, but they are the headliners of a general trend...action movie heroes are pretty much indestructible, and shrug off/ignore/don't suffer from what any ordinary mortal would consider crippling injuries. So that particular suspension of disbelief would be well paved to acceptance for me, at least.

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #745 on: May 14, 2015, 08:27:10 PM »
Well...Youtube always keep me up to date through my suggestions concerning movie and TV trailers. Now I know some here were waiting with anticipation for Supergirl......keep an open mind. It gets a little better at the end.


Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #746 on: May 15, 2015, 09:44:28 AM »
Is this really that big a deal? Bruce Willis sprints over broken class in the original Die Hard, then goes on to murder a building full of terrorists with no problem. Pretty much any Arnold Schwarzenegger character is metaphorically made of iron except the Terminator (who is literally made of iron). Those are just the two quickest examples, but they are the headliners of a general trend...action movie heroes are pretty much indestructible, and shrug off/ignore/don't suffer from what any ordinary mortal would consider crippling injuries. So that particular suspension of disbelief would be well paved to acceptance for me, at least.

If the intention is to go over the top, like Clive Owen in Shoot 'Em Up, fine, otherwise (and I haven't seen any of the movies you mentioned; I despise Bruce Willis and only seen the Terminator series with Ahnuld, none of his other stuff) I don't want to have one ordinary guy who at times kicks ass and at others has a hard time handling random thugs also somehow be invulnerable to soreness and failures in his medical treatments.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
If they gave Night Nurse/Claire Temple some kind of healing ability, that would have eliminated the problem entirely.

Well...Youtube always keep me up to date through my suggestions concerning movie and TV trailers. Now I know some here were waiting with anticipation for Supergirl......keep an open mind. It gets a little better at the end.



I know it's just TV, but...does it have to be so fucking corny? Even the Superman cartoon wasn't that corny (Especially when Lobo showed up), and he's farm boy.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 09:53:11 AM by Mathim »

Online CuriousEyes

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #747 on: May 15, 2015, 10:11:09 AM »
Well...Youtube always keep me up to date through my suggestions concerning movie and TV trailers. Now I know some here were waiting with anticipation for Supergirl......keep an open mind. It gets a little better at the end.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


....Good lord. That Black Widow thing for SNL was a joke. This is.... real?

Edit to add:

  • I was more of a Marvel fan than DC. How did Supergirl escape Krypton older than Superman but end up younger at the start of this series (I'm assuming some kind of cryogenic suspension or something)?
  • I actually haven't been paying attention - does this show fit into any of DC's other cinematic verses? I think I've heard that their CW shows (Flash, Arrow & Smallville is maybe included?) share a continuity, but that it's separate from the movie continuity of Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad, et al.
  • That was really, really bad.
  • I had a final question when I was watching, but I can't remember it and I can't bring myself to jog my memory by watching it again.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 10:19:33 AM by CuriousEyes »

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #748 on: May 15, 2015, 10:14:10 AM »

....Good lord. That Black Widow thing for SNL was a joke. This is.... real?
Nobody is forcing you to watch it.

Online CuriousEyes

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #749 on: May 15, 2015, 10:20:34 AM »
Nobody is forcing you to watch it.

True, but nobody is forcing me to keep my distaste to myself either.