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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 135462 times)

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Online Vorian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #350 on: March 17, 2015, 03:47:03 AM »
What  I got from the comics was that Maya was the main driving force behind the whole thing. In the movie, pretty much the opposite.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #351 on: March 17, 2015, 03:47:58 AM »
Iron Man 2 was a mess from start to finish. Can't really say which character was worse at being out of character as they were pretty much out of character except for Nick Fury, Black Widow and James Rhodes. It had some good action scenes but Mickey Rourke's character was flat and unbelievable as a villian. They could have done better casting for some roles.

Killian was much more believable as a villain then Sam Rockwell's Justin Hammer. But, it all depends who is helming the movie and who is writing the script. Some of the movies go through three or more revisions before the final product.  Some of the movies have hits and misses. Killian was the driving force behind the scenes, moving the pieces on the chess board. And, with him being dead at the end of the movie, the real Mandarian went after the next person, the one who impersonated him to punish. That was my impression of the short movie.

At the beginning of Iron Man 3, she showed Tony her creation with the plant using extremis before it blew up. Killian had given her his business card. When Tony stood Killian up it started Killian down his dark path and he recruited Maya to work with him as in essence Tony abandoned both of them. Maya after a one night stand never to think of her again, and Killian breaking a promise to meet him.

Glypstone you were right. Both Maya Hansen and Aldrich Killian created Extremis together in the comic as well.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 03:53:28 AM by SapphireStar »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #352 on: March 17, 2015, 03:56:57 AM »
What  I got from the comics was that Maya was the main driving force behind the whole thing. In the movie, pretty much the opposite.

Without the actual comics to look at, everything I can find describes Hansen and Killian as co-workers who created it together. The difference is that comics-Killian stole the recipe and sold it to terrorists, then committed suicide after it went horribly wrong, while Hansen went to prison. In the movies, Hansen invents Extremis and Killian bankrolls its development, invents fake terrorists to cover up his failed experiments, then turns out to be a Bad Boss by murdering Hansen after she tries to heel-face-turn. So really, it looks like Killian had even less direct credit in the MCU than he got in the comics.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 03:58:50 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Online Vorian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #353 on: March 17, 2015, 03:58:19 AM »
Random, because in the comics Killain was a one-scene character who's sole purpose in the plot was to die to get things moving, and was even farther removed from the crap we got on screen than Justin Hammer. Inventing a new AIM leader with petty motivations whole cloth out of him is pretty random.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #354 on: March 17, 2015, 04:03:04 AM »
At least he was a character related to the Extremis plotline though, which was the central arc of the movie. MODOK might be the 'official' leader of AIM in Earth-616, but otherwise had nothing to do with Extremis or anything else, completely aside from the fact that he would look utterly ridiculous in live-action.

Incidentally, since I've been doing the research for this debate, did you know the MCU's official multiversal designation is Earth-199999?




And look on the bright side. No Iron Man 4 means we might never see the 'true' Mandarin, but it also means we don't need to worry about them deciding to adapt the story arc where the Iron Man armor becomes sentient and develops an abusive relationship with Tony.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 04:06:18 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Online Vorian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #355 on: March 17, 2015, 04:12:56 AM »
There was a second Extremis plot that involved AIM, I think, but yeah - with the Mandarin and Extremis already in play honestly trying to work AIM in there was rather redundant and a waste of the organization. AIM has had leaders prior to MODOK if MODOK is too silly for the big screen (which I'm inclined to agree with). And the point remains - Maya was largely stripped of agency in the movie and the focus shifted to 'Killian'.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #356 on: March 17, 2015, 04:13:06 AM »
Two rumors floating about for Suicide Squad. There is talks that they are going to be adding and casting Dr. Hugo Strange for the movie. Also, rumor two is Joe Manganiello might be in talks to take on the role of Deathstroke since he exited Scream Queens. I could see him playing the role and he would be back in a superhero movie since playing Flash Thompson in Spider-man with Tobey Maguire.

If they're adding Dr. Hugo Strange. Would love to see someone like Eric Roberts play him.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 07:02:42 AM by SapphireStar »

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #357 on: March 17, 2015, 08:56:18 AM »
I know you hate it, you've made that abundantly clear. But your criteria and criticisms, at least the ones you've mentioned in the thread, are all based around it being dogmatically faithful to the Iron Man mythos/comics. I know very little about Iron Man besides what people have told me and bits I've picked up, so I'm judging it on its quality as a coherent movie and part of its trilogy arc, and it does very well there. And I'm not alone in thinking it either along the general moviegoing populace, based on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic.

Again, agree to disagree. Lousy pacing, kid sidekick, plot twists that don't pay off, ridiculously over-the-top villains, extremely weak motivations and personalities behind said villains (for anyone who criticized the dark elves from Thor 2, it's pretty much the same), lack of quantity and quality as far as really in-depth action sequences that the other MCU films have set the bar for, incredibly lame performance by the Iron Legion in the final battle, no-stakes girlfriend rescue even after she falls into fire (nobody thought she was actually dead so what was the point?), and once again she had to emasculate the hero by finishing the villain like in the first movie. None of that has to do with dogmatically following the comics, purely about elements of filmmaking, screenwriting and directorial decisions that made it suck. The rest of the concerns that are somewhat dogmatic are still valid, however. How much better, for instance, would the actual Mandarin have been than Killian? Someone actually worthy of having the Iron Legion go all-out and still not be sure of victory; Those ten rings are no joke.

Two rumors floating about for Suicide Squad. There is talks that they are going to be adding and casting Dr. Hugo Strange for the movie. Also, rumor two is Joe Manganiello might be in talks to take on the role of Deathstroke since he exited Scream Queens. I could see him playing the role and he would be back in a superhero movie since playing Flash Thompson in Spider-man with Tobey Maguire.

If they're adding Dr. Hugo Strange. Would love to see someone like Eric Roberts play him.

Hugo Strange? Already too many Batman rogues as it is, why don't they branch out a bit more? Plus, Eric Roberts was already in TDK trilogy. And he was the voice of Mongul in the Justice League series. Why not give him a break from DC for a while?

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #358 on: March 17, 2015, 09:21:02 AM »
That is what several news sources are reporting. That Dr. Hugo Strange is being added to the cast. Apparently, according to an article, they're going to have a huge prison breakout that draws in Batman for his cameo. Waller is only keeping Joker around because he is the only one to ever see Batman. According to the article Batman does his fighting through drones and surveillance. The more I hear about the Suicide Squad movie the more I get the feeling its going to wind up fizzling. Jai Courtney, he was in the last Die Hard movie as John McClane's son, not exactly riveting acting.

Eric Roberts has that presence to pull off playing Dr. Hugo Strange. But, that is my idea of casting of who I'd pick. He can play sinister and charming at the same time. I'd have loved it if they cast Adam Baldwin as Rick Flagg as he did the voice in the Justice League cartoon, and can pull off that role. Would be awesome if he played that role in a few guest spots on Arrow and The Flash.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #359 on: March 17, 2015, 01:27:37 PM »
I was so confused until I remembered Dr. Steven Strange and Dr. Hugo Strange are completely different characters from separate universes.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #360 on: March 17, 2015, 01:58:09 PM »
I was so confused until I remembered Dr. Steven Strange and Dr. Hugo Strange are completely different characters from separate universes.

LOL, seriously? Well I guess if you went a long time without reading or seeing anything with either of them it could take a while to remember. Hugo Strange was only ever a very minor character in the Batman series, but was more prominent in the later series The Batman. And Doctor Strange rarely makes cameos on any Marvel shows, most frequently those starring Spider-Man.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #361 on: March 17, 2015, 02:10:14 PM »
LOL, seriously? Well I guess if you went a long time without reading or seeing anything with either of them it could take a while to remember. Hugo Strange was only ever a very minor character in the Batman series, but was more prominent in the later series The Batman. And Doctor Strange rarely makes cameos on any Marvel shows, most frequently those starring Spider-Man.

Mainly because I forget Hugo Strange exists (never been a huge Batman fan), and I know Steven primarily by 'Doctor Strange' without his first name. So my first thought was 'wait, I thought Benedict Cumberbatch was cast to play Strange'.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #362 on: March 17, 2015, 03:55:52 PM »
Mainly because I forget Hugo Strange exists (never been a huge Batman fan), and I know Steven primarily by 'Doctor Strange' without his first name. So my first thought was 'wait, I thought Benedict Cumberbatch was cast to play Strange'.

To confuse you ever more, Stephen Strange isn't even the first "Dr. Strange" in the Marvel Universe... ;)

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #363 on: March 17, 2015, 04:28:04 PM »
To confuse you ever more, Stephen Strange isn't even the first "Dr. Strange" in the Marvel Universe... ;)

He's the only one I know or care about - like I know there was technically a first Human Torch (who was also an android or something?), but Johnny Storm is The Human Torch, like Steven Strange is Dr. Strange.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #364 on: March 17, 2015, 04:52:34 PM »
There seems to be a lot of parallel names in both universes. Deadpool is Wade Wilson, a mercenary. In DC you have Slade Wilson/Deathstroke who is also a mercenary. Dr. Hugo Strange was I believe prominent within the Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City games pretty much ruling the place. It seems they might be following along that plot line.

Interestingly, rumors abound that the Flash/Arrow spinoff will focus on the Flashpoint story.

Offline consortium11

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #365 on: March 17, 2015, 05:04:02 PM »
There seems to be a lot of parallel names in both universes. Deadpool is Wade Wilson, a mercenary. In DC you have Slade Wilson/Deathstroke who is also a mercenary.

That one's open and deliberate; Rob Liefeld (Deadpool's creator) pretty much copied  Deathstroke entirely and then made him even more 90's "xtreme" (think more guns, more pouches, more angst, more grim dark) with the name being an in-joke. Deadpool's characterization and sense of humour came later, first through Joe Kelly who actively turned him into a parody/satire of the character Liefeld had intended him to be.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #366 on: March 17, 2015, 05:29:15 PM »
He's the only one I know or care about - like I know there was technically a first Human Torch (who was also an android or something?), but Johnny Storm is The Human Torch, like Steven Strange is Dr. Strange.

It's Stephen Strange :)

As for the other Dr. Strange... he was a one-time Iron Man foe from one of Stark's earliest adventures:

http://www.comics.org/issue/17675/cover/4/

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #367 on: March 18, 2015, 07:51:16 AM »
He's the only one I know or care about - like I know there was technically a first Human Torch (who was also an android or something?), but Johnny Storm is The Human Torch, like Steven Strange is Dr. Strange.

Yeah, that's how it is with DC, too. Like the Flash; Barry Allen wasn't actually the first Flash but they're using BA in the TV series. Same with Green Lantern, but they used Hal Jordan as the first one. It's all about name recognition. Which one is more well-known and popular? Obviously not the first ones which are likely to look and sound way goofier than before comics got a bit more serious.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #368 on: March 18, 2015, 12:28:19 PM »
That one's open and deliberate; Rob Liefeld (Deadpool's creator) pretty much copied  Deathstroke entirely and then made him even more 90's "xtreme" (think more guns, more pouches, more angst, more grim dark) with the name being an in-joke. Deadpool's characterization and sense of humour came later, first through Joe Kelly who actively turned him into a parody/satire of the character Liefeld had intended him to be.
I didn't know that, although I guess I should have suspected. The similarity between the two has been commented before, but I always thought that it was Deathstroke that was copying Deadpool, since Pooly is a bit better known.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #369 on: March 18, 2015, 01:28:43 PM »
Oh, come on - Deathstroke copying Deadpool? Don't be unkind  :-) Deathstroke is an early 80s creation by two good creators - Marv Wolfman and the amazing George Perez. Meanwhile, Deadpool was created in the 90s, by Rob "I can't really draw" Liefeld...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #370 on: March 18, 2015, 01:37:20 PM »
Liefield can draw! He can draw pouches, he can draw guns (badly), he can draw anatomically deformed spines, he can draw ankles hidden behind objects with no feet attached, he can draw more pouches...

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #371 on: March 18, 2015, 04:08:44 PM »
Well, I can agree with that! :)

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #372 on: March 18, 2015, 05:30:22 PM »
I don't much care about the artistry, as much as the story, action and humor. A good balance of each is what really matters. Although I mostly read manga nowadays than Western comics. But seeing them translated onto the big screen...they better look DAMN good!

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #373 on: March 18, 2015, 05:46:21 PM »
Speaking of Deadpool - I'm really hoping they don't screw up his solo movie.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #374 on: March 18, 2015, 08:22:20 PM »
Speaking of Deadpool - I'm really hoping they don't screw up his solo movie.

If the test footage is any indication, it's going to go just fine. As long as the costume looks more real and not like they made it out of sofa cushions. Just wonder how much it's going to tie into the X-verse with the rest of them.

I know another solo outing for Wolverine is supposed to be coming somewhere down the line. Deadpool would be a fun cameo to have again, provided they do it RIGHT this time and to make it interesting, like maybe involving the Savage Land. I wonder if the actual Deadpool movie is going to be an origin or what? They certainly can't use the same one as Wolverine Origins.