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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 136421 times)

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Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2750 on: August 07, 2016, 05:35:59 PM »
There is so much material that they could use for just a series of Batman movies, like Hush, No Man's Land, Knightfall, Knightsend, etc. If the Harley and Wonder Woman movie succeeds, I wonder if it would open the door for other movies about other female characters like Catwoman, Birds of Prey, Zatanna.

Apparently, a report came out saying that Zach Snyder directed a small portion of Suicide Squad. Like seriously? If this is true, will he be doing that with the other movies? If one of the other director's doesn't do something he likes, is he going to jump in and take over?

Is Hush from the regular Batman universe, or are there multiple stories with that title? Because I could swear I read about a Batman Beyond arc called Hush, or at least that was the villain's name, and it's way too soon for them to be going into the future with this universe. It's hard enough to figure things out in the present.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2751 on: August 07, 2016, 06:25:45 PM »
Hush involved Bruce Wayne in the regular Batman universe. Though I think it might have been a stand alone? It is the story arc where Catwoman/Selina Kyle is with Batman/Bruce. During the story, the villain, Hush, attacks Catwoman and rips her heart out. While she is in the hospital Batman visits her, tells her he loves her. If I remember right, Hush made himself to look like Bruce Wayne in order to destroy him.

Its interesting, in the previous DC universe before the New 52, Bruce trusted Catwoman with his secret identity. In the new DC universe, she doesn't know it, or at least didn't when it started.

The Gotham tv series did the Court of Owls recently. And, that was a story arc in the New 52 universe which revealed, Bruce had a brother Thomas who was kept sequestered in a hospital.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2752 on: August 07, 2016, 10:32:21 PM »
Hush involved Bruce Wayne in the regular Batman universe. Though I think it might have been a stand alone? It is the story arc where Catwoman/Selina Kyle is with Batman/Bruce. During the story, the villain, Hush, attacks Catwoman and rips her heart out. While she is in the hospital Batman visits her, tells her he loves her. If I remember right, Hush made himself to look like Bruce Wayne in order to destroy him.

Its interesting, in the previous DC universe before the New 52, Bruce trusted Catwoman with his secret identity. In the new DC universe, she doesn't know it, or at least didn't when it started.

The Gotham tv series did the Court of Owls recently. And, that was a story arc in the New 52 universe which revealed, Bruce had a brother Thomas who was kept sequestered in a hospital.

Is that like how in the comics, Tony Stark has a brother but not in the MCU?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2753 on: August 07, 2016, 11:38:25 PM »
The course of human history will not be changed by this movie, that much is certain. But those early reviews that were saying it was worse than the Fant4stic just wrong.
Then they'd be firing the wrong guy  ;D The director of photography is the one responsible for the camera work.

Update:
Looks like Suicide Squad has had a decent enough opening weekend, taking over $130 Million. Best August opening figures.
Yeah, but I hate to say it, they did put it up against literally nothing else.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2754 on: August 08, 2016, 02:14:32 AM »
Yeah, but I hate to say it, they did put it up against literally nothing else.
That line of reasoning doesn't really hold true. It's not like people are being marched into cinemas with a gun to their heads being told they have to watch 'something'.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2755 on: August 08, 2016, 07:40:14 AM »
That line of reasoning doesn't really hold true. It's not like people are being marched into cinemas with a gun to their heads being told they have to watch 'something'.
No, it's perfectly valid. Otherwise people wouldn't work to avoid competition. Think about it. This has actually been a very week summer for blockbusters. The only other thing that came out was the Independence Day sequel and that was long enough back that it wouldn't affect Suicide Squad.

Also remember that fans aren't the only people that go watch these movies. There are names in the comic book world that have entered into a common knowledge folklore state. Batman, Superman, Joker, etc.

Further more it has Will Smith in it, and that's a particularly large draw for many of the target movie going audiences. When you want to see a summer movie, and aren't particularly up on everything DC, and it has the Joker in it are you going to go watch the literally nothing being played in theaters right now or are you going to go see the Will Smith Superhero movie with the admittedly catchy trailers?

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2756 on: August 08, 2016, 08:39:25 AM »
No, it's perfectly valid. Otherwise people wouldn't work to avoid competition. Think about it. This has actually been a very week summer for blockbusters. The only other thing that came out was the Independence Day sequel and that was long enough back that it wouldn't affect Suicide Squad.

Also remember that fans aren't the only people that go watch these movies. There are names in the comic book world that have entered into a common knowledge folklore state. Batman, Superman, Joker, etc.

Further more it has Will Smith in it, and that's a particularly large draw for many of the target movie going audiences. When you want to see a summer movie, and aren't particularly up on everything DC, and it has the Joker in it are you going to go watch the literally nothing being played in theaters right now or are you going to go see the Will Smith Superhero movie with the admittedly catchy trailers?

That's exactly the thing I was talking about earlier, they were really good about their marketing. They made the trailers very enticing (albeit a bit...or a lot, over the top) and the fact that it's a comic book movie just fueled it since if that had just been a completely original screenplay, it probably wouldn't have had as much appeal attached to it. I wasn't expecting it to take in that much, though, at least not with the reviews being in BvS territory, and with the backlash from BvS' reception, but that's damn impressive. The tone having some actual humor probably helped a lot, there was very little about the trailers that didn't have cause for chuckling but with the BvS trailers it was maybe one occasion where they showed something you'd be able to laugh about. Too bad there's no way to 'do over' the first two and make them more appealing on a wider scale. Then Marvel would have an incentive to step their own game up even further because they'd have some actual legit competition.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2757 on: August 08, 2016, 08:55:13 AM »
I agree that studios try to avoid releasing big films at the same time because it hurts both films. People can only spend their money once, so by staggering major releases studios aren't fighting over the same pay cheque. So the idea that a particular film is only doing well because put against 'nothing else' is wrong because major releases are always put up against 'nothing else'.  Also saying people have 'no choice' in what they watch is wrong, I just looked at my local cinema listing :

Suicide Squad
Finding Dory
The Secret Life of Pets
The Legend of Tarzan
Star Trek : Beyond
The BFG
Now You See Me 2
Jason Bourne
Ice Age
Ghostbusters
Central Intelligence

While not every film is going to appeal everyone, there is still plenty of choice. There is also the choice not to see any of them. Just because a particular person is in the movie doesn't mean people automatically are going to watch it, for example; After Earth staring Will Smith: US Box Office $ 60 Million or how about Wild Wild West starring Will Smith : US Box Office $ 113 Million both commercial flops.

It is fair to say that Suicide Squad has had a great opening weekend, in spite of all the negative reviews, but drawing conclusions beyond that would be premature.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2758 on: August 08, 2016, 09:32:37 AM »
I agree that studios try to avoid releasing big films at the same time because it hurts both films. People can only spend their money once, so by staggering major releases studios aren't fighting over the same pay cheque. So the idea that a particular film is only doing well because put against 'nothing else' is wrong because major releases are always put up against 'nothing else'.  Also saying people have 'no choice' in what they watch is wrong, I just looked at my local cinema listing :

Suicide Squad
Finding Dory
The Secret Life of Pets
The Legend of Tarzan
Star Trek : Beyond
The BFG
Now You See Me 2
Jason Bourne
Ice Age
Ghostbusters
Central Intelligence

While not every film is going to appeal everyone, there is still plenty of choice. There is also the choice not to see any of them. Just because a particular person is in the movie doesn't mean people automatically are going to watch it, for example; After Earth staring Will Smith: US Box Office $ 60 Million or how about Wild Wild West starring Will Smith : US Box Office $ 113 Million both commercial flops.

It is fair to say that Suicide Squad has had a great opening weekend, in spite of all the negative reviews, but drawing conclusions beyond that would be premature.
Honestly a lot of that has been in theaters a bit, and I wouldn't have called the fifth Bourne movie stiff competition. Unless you had to go see a kid's movie, and Star Trek has a couple of weeks to go stale, and Legend of Tarzan kind of fell off the public radar quickly. What I mean to say in terms of opening weekend, Suicide Squad has no real competition. It was quite masterfully released to be honest. If it had been released a few weeks earlier I bet even Stark Trek: Beyond would have severely impacted its box office draw.

Will Smith is great, but it's Will Smith who a walking vat of screen charisma, so no shocks there.

Your words not mine. Look no actor gets through their career without one flop, and After Earth unfortunately had the problem of getting M. Night Shamalyan attached to it when his name was pure cyanide.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2759 on: August 08, 2016, 10:56:51 AM »
What I mean to say in terms of opening weekend, Suicide Squad has no real competition.
Yes, but every marquee film is scheduled so that is has no real competition, you said so yourself. Look at the top 9 earning films for 2016 so far :

Finding Dory - June 17th - $135 Million opening weekend
Civil War - May 6th - $179 Million
Deadpool - February 12th - $135 Million
Jungle Book - April 15th - $100 Million
Zootopia - March 4th - $75 Million
BvS - March 25th - $166 Million
Secret Life of Pets - July 8th - $104 Million
X-Men : Apocalypse - May 27th - $65 Million
Kung Fu Panda - January 29th - $41 Million

Every one of them had the opening weekend to themselves, so if the only reason a film does well is because of a lack competition then it applies to all of them. If it applies to all of them, then it's a non-factor in their success. Now, if you do really think that a lack of competition is the reason that a film has a good opening weekend, then what does that say about Deadpool?
It has been demonstrated that films released in February are the worst. (there are statistics and everything) So Deadpool was released at the low point in the movie calendar, but I'm guessing if asked why the movie had such a strong opening weekend your answer would not be 'lack of competition.'

Look no actor gets through their career without one flop, and After Earth unfortunately had the problem of getting M. Night Shamalyan attached to it when his name was pure cyanide.
Wild Wild West, Concussion, Focus, The Legend of Bagger Vance, Winter's Tale, Hancock, Seven Pounds. I think it's fair to say Will Smith has been in his share of stinkers that had nothing to do with M. Night Shamalyan. Sure, having a big name attached makes selling the idea of a film far easier but if it's fundamentally a bad film people won't go to see it.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2760 on: August 08, 2016, 11:24:38 AM »
Yes, but every marquee film is scheduled so that is has no real competition, you said so yourself. Look at the top 9 earning films for 2016 so far :

Finding Dory - June 17th - $135 Million opening weekend
Civil War - May 6th - $179 Million
Deadpool - February 12th - $135 Million
Jungle Book - April 15th - $100 Million
Zootopia - March 4th - $75 Million
BvS - March 25th - $166 Million
Secret Life of Pets - July 8th - $104 Million
X-Men : Apocalypse - May 27th - $65 Million
Kung Fu Panda - January 29th - $41 Million

Every one of them had the opening weekend to themselves, so if the only reason a film does well is because of a lack competition then it applies to all of them. If it applies to all of them, then it's a non-factor in their success. Now, if you do really think that a lack of competition is the reason that a film has a good opening weekend, then what does that say about Deadpool?
It has been demonstrated that films released in February are the worst. (there are statistics and everything) So Deadpool was released at the low point in the movie calendar, but I'm guessing if asked why the movie had such a strong opening weekend your answer would not be 'lack of competition.'
Wild Wild West, Concussion, Focus, The Legend of Bagger Vance, Winter's Tale, Hancock, Seven Pounds. I think it's fair to say Will Smith has been in his share of stinkers that had nothing to do with M. Night Shamalyan. Sure, having a big name attached makes selling the idea of a film far easier but if it's fundamentally a bad film people won't go to see it.
At this point I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Because you've got to realize that pointing out any of this doesn't really further the debate any, right?

I mean, so what if Will Smith has a string of flubs, bet he's just crying all the way to the bank. I--and you too don't forget--am just saying he's going to draw a lot of the average moviegoer into theaters to watch the only one that's been marketed. *Shrugs*

Further more, pointing out that no movie this year has had and real competition doesn't really put a hole in my point it just illustrates the concept of not putting your movie up against anything that could hurt its draw. So you're really just hurting your own point because you gave a whole list of things that could draw box office away from Suicide Squad. Either they have not had the level of marketing as Suicide Squad or they're not really in the same demographics (ie kid's movies).

So I'm a little flabbergasted. It just seems that you're deliberately being a contrarian.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2761 on: August 08, 2016, 12:29:56 PM »
OK, lets try and take the temperature out of this a little.
From your posts am I right in assuming that you believe that main reason Suicide Squad had a great opening weekend is because there was nothing else to watch?

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2762 on: August 08, 2016, 01:40:23 PM »
Just saw a very interesting post made by Robert Downey Jr. on his Facebook page for Avengers Infinity War. The poster lists pretty much all of the actors from all MCU movies and from the MTVU which includes Jon Bernthal as the Punisher, Chris Cox, Krysten Ritter, the cast of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. including Adrienne Palicki. At the end of the post he wrote "Excited?". And it makes sense why the next seasons for Daredevil and Jessica Jones are delayed.

(But, even if it is a fan made poster, its still awesome. Or, it could be a bait and switch with the directors/producers denying it, but later on it turns out to be true)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 01:55:56 PM by SapphireStar »

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2763 on: August 08, 2016, 04:07:24 PM »

There is something about that image doesn't feel right. It's slightly tongue in cheek thought but who did Nick Blood, Jamie Alexander, Idris Elba & Antony Hopkins upset to be left of the list?
I thought Marvel had decided to ditch the Part I and Part II titles? Aren't the films currently 'Avengers : Infinity War' & 'Avengers : Untitled Sequel' , that second one is never going to look good on a poster.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2764 on: August 08, 2016, 06:28:30 PM »
Hmm, so I was watching Ant-Man again and in the final act of the movie just after Scott goes sub-atomic where he is drifting in the quantum realm. The various flashes of atoms and molecules, etc in the upper left hand corner behind Scott you can see flashes of what looks like a human form. The form looks like Janet van Dyn/Wasp's form. Was that coincidence? Just a random shape that flashed several times behind Scott or are they teasing the possibilty that they will explore the quantum realm more in the sequel which results in rescuing Janet?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2765 on: August 08, 2016, 06:37:41 PM »
Pretty sure I saw somewhere that was intentional.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2766 on: August 08, 2016, 08:56:56 PM »
Hmm, so I was watching Ant-Man again and in the final act of the movie just after Scott goes sub-atomic where he is drifting in the quantum realm. The various flashes of atoms and molecules, etc in the upper left hand corner behind Scott you can see flashes of what looks like a human form. The form looks like Janet van Dyn/Wasp's form. Was that coincidence? Just a random shape that flashed several times behind Scott or are they teasing the possibilty that they will explore the quantum realm more in the sequel which results in rescuing Janet?

I had heard it was supposed to be a glimpse of the being Eternity. It's too early yet to really make an educated guess about what Ant-Man and the Wasp will be about, especially as it's post-Infinity War, but i'd bet a significant event will be a rescue mission for Janet. I wonder who they'll get to play her? And if she'll have aged at all during her stint in the Quantum Realm, if she'll be as young as her daughter and make everything feel awkward and uncomfortable, like with the Snow White family in Once Upon a Time.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2767 on: August 08, 2016, 09:28:40 PM »
They could go in any number of directions. Though, they could go with the Once Upon a Time effect since Marvel is now owned by Disney. If they go with someone younger to show Janet didn't age, maybe someone like Meghan Ory? Or, if they showed that she didn't age, Catherine Zeta Jones would be an interesting choice as she is married to Michael Douglas.

Isn't the Eternity character much larger? The image flashes in the scene in Ant-man were a bit more streamlined, feminine?

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2768 on: August 08, 2016, 10:12:40 PM »
They could go in any number of directions. Though, they could go with the Once Upon a Time effect since Marvel is now owned by Disney. If they go with someone younger to show Janet didn't age, maybe someone like Meghan Ory? Or, if they showed that she didn't age, Catherine Zeta Jones would be an interesting choice as she is married to Michael Douglas.

Isn't the Eternity character much larger? The image flashes in the scene in Ant-man were a bit more streamlined, feminine?

Mmm, Meghan Ory, the new top of my hottest women alive list. Missed her so much in season 3 and 4.

And yeah, Zeta-Jones would be a humorous choice since she is actually married to Douglas and younger. Someone on youtube also mentioned the resemblance between her and Evangeline Lilly.

I'm not sure about Eternity, I've only seen it once on wikipedia, but there could be a significant departure from its traditional appearance since it's the MCU. I don't know if I personally believe it, it's only a rumor from one of those Easter Egg videos on youtube.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2769 on: August 08, 2016, 10:34:00 PM »
Though it is possible for the character of Eternity to be used in Infinity war. In the bio about the character, he is an omnipotent being representing all time and reality in the universe. Eternity usually manifests if there is a threat to the universe like Thanos or Dormammu surfaces. With the amount of characters they're building for Infinity war, it seems like overkill power wise to have an infinitally powerful character show up?


Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2770 on: August 08, 2016, 11:09:56 PM »
Though it is possible for the character of Eternity to be used in Infinity war. In the bio about the character, he is an omnipotent being representing all time and reality in the universe. Eternity usually manifests if there is a threat to the universe like Thanos or Dormammu surfaces. With the amount of characters they're building for Infinity war, it seems like overkill power wise to have an infinitally powerful character show up?

Well, especially if Infinity War is now only one movie instead of two. No idea how the hell they're going to pull that off.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2771 on: August 09, 2016, 02:18:01 AM »
Gotham has been leaking\promoting the new season, so expect to see Harleen and Waylon Jones before they become their criminal alter egos. We'll get to see the Joker cult that's been building since Jerome's death. Solomon Grundy appears and is linked to both Indian Hills and the Court of Owls, I'd guess he's a Talon of sorts but interesting as  Cyrus Gold, who becomes Solomon,  was on Arrow back in season 2.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2772 on: August 09, 2016, 05:24:54 AM »
Apparently, a report came out saying that Zach Snyder directed a small portion of Suicide Squad. Like seriously? If this is true, will he be doing that with the other movies? If one of the other director's doesn't do something he likes, is he going to jump in and take over?
There is a scene that Zach Snyder direct, but the Flash cameo isn't a major part of the movie.
The Squad was filmed in Toronto, Justice League production is ongoing in London it was just easier to film Ezra Millar's 5 seconds of screen time in London.

Also found an interesting quote from John Ostrander :
"If a film doesn’t fit their pre-conceived notion, it is wrong. Female Ghostbusters, a black Deadshot, Ben Affleck as Batman - these are all sins and must be decried. Give me a fucking break."

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2773 on: August 09, 2016, 11:42:26 AM »
Some interesting news, Brie Larson is going to be directing a film of her own before donning the Captain Marvel tights. So she wants to get some directing chops before committing to the MCU, which is admirably ambitious; who knows, maybe if she knocks it out of the park they'll let her direct Captain Marvel like they're doing with Ben Affleck's solo Batman movie. I hope it doesn't end up delaying things like Edgar Wright's commitments before dropping out of Ant-Man.

Oh, and the newest Luke Cage trailer just dropped. Looks even better than the teaser trailer from comic-con. Glad they didn't wait as long to show us stuff like they did with Jessica Jones and Daredevil season 2. Those were practically ready to be released by the time we got their trailers.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 11:49:35 AM by Mathim »

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2774 on: August 09, 2016, 04:01:57 PM »
The Luke Cage series looks pretty straightforward. That said I am still looking forward to this!